CooloutAC wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

1. The format will be AvA (not AvAvA like the current BGs),
2. The arena maps will be much smaller, all the matches will be in deathmatch format,
3. The ELO like rating will be visible and the ladderboards would last season long,
4. Similar rated teams will fight each-other,
5. There will be unique rewards and titles for the top teams at the end of each season.

No, WOW arena is full of elitist and toxicity - not a fun environment. Current state of pvp in wow has been reduced to nothing due to rated arena/bgs. Finding teams to play with will be extremely difficult as is in wow. You will have to play meta classes/builds in order to be on the top. Build diversity will be close to none as is in wow. You will only have those very few teams dominating the ladder while teams aspiring to climb will only get frustrated and quit.

ESO charm is being able to hop in at any time queue for a bg and have fun with a build I created - good, fun casual game. WOW rated arenas are worse that my physical master hws, and way more frustrating.

Also anyone that says wow arena model is good has never played wow and does not know its current state, that's from someone that has 2k rated exp in arena/bg. You want to play mistweaver? Sorry not meta, reroll!

I prefer the GW2 model. elitism and toxicity will always be in competitive games. This game is no different. But people of all skill levels can be competitive. The definition of being competitive is wanting competitive matches. Wanting to stomp noobs is the opposite of competitive.

My issue is with players who think domination and relic mode are somewhow inferior game modes, when really they are just making up excuses for the fact they depend on overpowered builds and gear and can't play with any map strategy. . All brawn and no brains. All tactics and no strat. Like the above poster said, they only want certain meta dueling builds to be viable and refuse to play objectives and selfishly undermine the whole mmr system out of spite. This is the real problem.

Even if we gave these players their own deathmatch unranked practice qeue. They would still hop into the ranked qeue just to ragequit players because they have shown time and time again that is what they enjoy doing the most. They cried to ZOS that qeue times were too long and ZOS saw the playerbase is measly. So zos made random qeues and put in a solo mode. Which they undermine by syncdropping into or grouping on discord. If ZOS is not going to do anything about the cheating and poor sportsmanship by banning quitters, which means also those who decline qeues, while having an actual mmr qeue with a W/L record and Skill rating based leaderboard, I also suggest a maximum of 2 man premades. then this will never be a competitive community.

But to your point, I agree we should not reward these toxic players. Start with ensuring fair play before making any changes imo. I don't mind waiting 30 mins for a qeue if thats what it takes to build the playerbase again. make a ranked and unranked qeue instead of group and solo.

I come from gw2 as well - since beta in fact, plat player/full legendaries all that stuff which means nothing now days. I do not prefer gw2 model. You are cornered to play a certain play style if you pick a class - no diversity. Thief, decap bot. Team loses, your fault. There is difference in toxicity, every online game, every forum has it, tell me something I don't know.

WOW arena, failing, GW2 conquest mode, failed, hard and you should know it if you come from gw2, WVW don't get me started, you either face bots or the same team/players over and over and over. Their population is slim, small, probably not much bigger than ESO bgs, probably smaller who knows.

Games are different, all with pros/cons. But comparing ESO to gw2/wow pvp is not comparing apples to apples. You can't. The grass is never greener, somehow people think it that way.

Also, I do mind waiting 30 mins, and am willing to bet most will as well, most people work several hrs a day, and surprisingly a lot gamers are parents now, that is just reality, games are no longer cater to 15 year old that have all the time in the world, and don't have money to spend.

I hover between g3 and plat but you think it failed Compared to ESO which literally feels like it only has 50 people playing bg's? In GW2 the matches are way more competitive and I don't see the same people in every match even at offpeak times. What failed to you? NO diversity? The only class that is rarely played is warrior, which for years has always been nerfed into the ground for the avg player. But of course the top players can still dominate with it. Every other class is played with a diversity of builds. You can look at sites like metabattle which rate them all.

All these games are mmo's with similar 4v4 arena modes.

I wait 30 mins for a dungeon sometimes. The qeues definitely don't have to be instant but ESO needs to stop claiming this game has an mmr, because at this point it definitely does not. Whats great about this game is you can do other things while queuing, like play cyrodil or duel. Most competitive players will prefer competitive matches and waiting 20-30 mins to get one would be worth it and at the same time would build the playerbase back up. Most people I know who play this game won't even do the daily its so brutal lol.

And so what are you saying? In real life "parents" have to give up atheletic sports too? Thats as lame as the excuse that crashing and disconnects are reasons not to penalize quitting and que decliners. Meanwhile RIOT does it with LoL and those matches can last up to 45 mins long.

Gw2 matches are not competitive, not close, not a little bit, just no. Build diversity, there are 8 classes, each class has one, some two meta specs. Use a different spec on higher rating guess what, you will get *** on by all your teammates, theif decap monkey, guardian support.

What failed to me, hackers, bots, griefing, devs focusing in other mods, no build diversity (metabattle, funny look at godsofpvp, more informative site), no expansion in what 4 years? nothing added. Getting matched to bronze players due to the declining population, to name a few a d the cycle continues. I am wondering if we are taking about the same game.

I am not defending ESO, nor claiming ESO mmr system Is good. But to say other games do it better is also not true, far from it. Very few players want to wait 20-30 mins, very very few, design a game around those players and say bye bye to your player base. Go look at WOW and you will understand. What you are saying will do the opposite from building a player base. People don't wa t to wait 20-30 mins for a 15 min game. I would also like to see different pvp game modes btw. But playing other games like wow and gw2 I do not want ESO to do what they are doing.

I don't understand your last paragraph about parents and athletic sports, nor your analogy. You lost some credibility now that you brought LoL to this topic. Want to compare ESO to minecraft while you are at it? Or rollercoaster tycoon?

8 classes with multiple viable specs is not build diversity? Quite a contrast from ESO that has stamden, magcro and stam sorc which dominate other classes by a long mile. But why are you getting offtopic? What does any of this have to do with having competitive matches and a real leaderboard? Do you not know the definition? If people didn't cry about qeu8e times and we had a real mmr, it doesn't matter what level you are playing at you can and should be able to have competitive matches. Without someone so selfish they think they are entitled to stomp noobs. The complete opposite of competitive.

What failed to you is whats wrong with eso, not gw2 bud. There are problems in every pc game. But barely noticeable in gw2, unlike eso which most people in their right mind avoid. Extremely ironic lol.

The mmr system does not exist, because people cry about long qeue times and sync drop in the solo qeue and are constantly rolling toons like the dudes in u50 cyrodil lmao. . Thats why even if we give these selfish players , that ruin matches for competitive players who try to win in each game mode, a DM qeue they will still tier slum in the other gamodes when they get bored or get tired of waiting in qeue. Thats why ZOS took it away from them in the first place. Noone plays cause there is nothing competitive about it.

My last paragraph means the fact you are a parent is no excuse. make time to play the game if you want to play it. Just like people do with real life athletic sports where they have to drive to a physical location other then their desk chair. gimme a break. LOL is the only pc game popular by my standards and the main reason is because their core community is as competitive as the original counterstrike community was and because they ban quitters and smurfers. BTW a term coined by that community like stackers were coined by cs..

CooloutAC wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

1. The format will be AvA (not AvAvA like the current BGs),
2. The arena maps will be much smaller, all the matches will be in deathmatch format,
3. The ELO like rating will be visible and the ladderboards would last season long,
4. Similar rated teams will fight each-other,
5. There will be unique rewards and titles for the top teams at the end of each season.

No, WOW arena is full of elitist and toxicity - not a fun environment. Current state of pvp in wow has been reduced to nothing due to rated arena/bgs. Finding teams to play with will be extremely difficult as is in wow. You will have to play meta classes/builds in order to be on the top. Build diversity will be close to none as is in wow. You will only have those very few teams dominating the ladder while teams aspiring to climb will only get frustrated and quit.

ESO charm is being able to hop in at any time queue for a bg and have fun with a build I created - good, fun casual game. WOW rated arenas are worse that my physical master hws, and way more frustrating.

Also anyone that says wow arena model is good has never played wow and does not know its current state, that's from someone that has 2k rated exp in arena/bg. You want to play mistweaver? Sorry not meta, reroll!

I prefer the GW2 model. elitism and toxicity will always be in competitive games. This game is no different. But people of all skill levels can be competitive. The definition of being competitive is wanting competitive matches. Wanting to stomp noobs is the opposite of competitive.

My issue is with players who think domination and relic mode are somewhow inferior game modes, when really they are just making up excuses for the fact they depend on overpowered builds and gear and can't play with any map strategy. . All brawn and no brains. All tactics and no strat. Like the above poster said, they only want certain meta dueling builds to be viable and refuse to play objectives and selfishly undermine the whole mmr system out of spite. This is the real problem.

Even if we gave these players their own deathmatch unranked practice qeue. They would still hop into the ranked qeue just to ragequit players because they have shown time and time again that is what they enjoy doing the most. They cried to ZOS that qeue times were too long and ZOS saw the playerbase is measly. So zos made random qeues and put in a solo mode. Which they undermine by syncdropping into or grouping on discord. If ZOS is not going to do anything about the cheating and poor sportsmanship by banning quitters, which means also those who decline qeues, while having an actual mmr qeue with a W/L record and Skill rating based leaderboard, I also suggest a maximum of 2 man premades. then this will never be a competitive community.

But to your point, I agree we should not reward these toxic players. Start with ensuring fair play before making any changes imo. I don't mind waiting 30 mins for a qeue if thats what it takes to build the playerbase again. make a ranked and unranked qeue instead of group and solo.

I come from gw2 as well - since beta in fact, plat player/full legendaries all that stuff which means nothing now days. I do not prefer gw2 model. You are cornered to play a certain play style if you pick a class - no diversity. Thief, decap bot. Team loses, your fault. There is difference in toxicity, every online game, every forum has it, tell me something I don't know.

WOW arena, failing, GW2 conquest mode, failed, hard and you should know it if you come from gw2, WVW don't get me started, you either face bots or the same team/players over and over and over. Their population is slim, small, probably not much bigger than ESO bgs, probably smaller who knows.

Games are different, all with pros/cons. But comparing ESO to gw2/wow pvp is not comparing apples to apples. You can't. The grass is never greener, somehow people think it that way.

Also, I do mind waiting 30 mins, and am willing to bet most will as well, most people work several hrs a day, and surprisingly a lot gamers are parents now, that is just reality, games are no longer cater to 15 year old that have all the time in the world, and don't have money to spend.

I hover between g3 and plat but you think it failed Compared to ESO which literally feels like it only has 50 people playing bg's? In GW2 the matches are way more competitive and I don't see the same people in every match even at offpeak times. What failed to you? NO diversity? The only class that is rarely played is warrior, which for years has always been nerfed into the ground for the avg player. But of course the top players can still dominate with it. Every other class is played with a diversity of builds. You can look at sites like metabattle which rate them all.

All these games are mmo's with similar 4v4 arena modes.

I wait 30 mins for a dungeon sometimes. The qeues definitely don't have to be instant but ESO needs to stop claiming this game has an mmr, because at this point it definitely does not. Whats great about this game is you can do other things while queuing, like play cyrodil or duel. Most competitive players will prefer competitive matches and waiting 20-30 mins to get one would be worth it and at the same time would build the playerbase back up. Most people I know who play this game won't even do the daily its so brutal lol.

And so what are you saying? In real life "parents" have to give up atheletic sports too? Thats as lame as the excuse that crashing and disconnects are reasons not to penalize quitting and que decliners. Meanwhile RIOT does it with LoL and those matches can last up to 45 mins long.

Gw2 matches are not competitive, not close, not a little bit, just no. Build diversity, there are 8 classes, each class has one, some two meta specs. Use a different spec on higher rating guess what, you will get *** on by all your teammates, theif decap monkey, guardian support.

What failed to me, hackers, bots, griefing, devs focusing in other mods, no build diversity (metabattle, funny look at godsofpvp, more informative site), no expansion in what 4 years? nothing added. Getting matched to bronze players due to the declining population, to name a few a d the cycle continues. I am wondering if we are taking about the same game.

I am not defending ESO, nor claiming ESO mmr system Is good. But to say other games do it better is also not true, far from it. Very few players want to wait 20-30 mins, very very few, design a game around those players and say bye bye to your player base. Go look at WOW and you will understand. What you are saying will do the opposite from building a player base. People don't wa t to wait 20-30 mins for a 15 min game. I would also like to see different pvp game modes btw. But playing other games like wow and gw2 I do not want ESO to do what they are doing.

I don't understand your last paragraph about parents and athletic sports, nor your analogy. You lost some credibility now that you brought LoL to this topic. Want to compare ESO to minecraft while you are at it? Or rollercoaster tycoon?

8 classes with multiple viable specs is not build diversity? Quite a contrast from ESO that has stamden, magcro and stam sorc which dominate other classes by a long mile. But why are you getting offtopic? What does any of this have to do with having competitive matches and a real leaderboard? Do you not know the definition? If people didn't cry about qeu8e times and we had a real mmr, it doesn't matter what level you are playing at you can and should be able to have competitive matches. Without someone so selfish they think they are entitled to stomp noobs. The complete opposite of competitive.

What failed to you is whats wrong with eso, not gw2 bud. There are problems in every pc game. But barely noticeable in gw2, unlike eso which most people in their right mind avoid. Extremely ironic lol.

The mmr system does not exist, because people cry about long qeue times and sync drop in the solo qeue and are constantly rolling toons like the dudes in u50 cyrodil lmao. . Thats why even if we give these selfish players , that ruin matches for competitive players who try to win in each game mode, a DM qeue they will still tier slum in the other gamodes when they get bored or get tired of waiting in qeue. Thats why ZOS took it away from them in the first place. Noone plays cause there is nothing competitive about it.

My last paragraph means the fact you are a parent is no excuse. make time to play the game if you want to play it. Just like people do with real life athletic sports where they have to drive to a physical location other then their desk chair. gimme a break. LOL is the only pc game popular by my standards and the main reason is because their core community is as competitive as the original counterstrike community was and because they ban quitters and smurfers. BTW a term coined by that community like stackers were coined by cs..

fbours wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

WolfyRaps wrote: »

1. The format will be AvA (not AvAvA like the current BGs),
2. The arena maps will be much smaller, all the matches will be in deathmatch format,
3. The ELO like rating will be visible and the ladderboards would last season long,
4. Similar rated teams will fight each-other,
5. There will be unique rewards and titles for the top teams at the end of each season.

No, WOW arena is full of elitist and toxicity - not a fun environment. Current state of pvp in wow has been reduced to nothing due to rated arena/bgs. Finding teams to play with will be extremely difficult as is in wow. You will have to play meta classes/builds in order to be on the top. Build diversity will be close to none as is in wow. You will only have those very few teams dominating the ladder while teams aspiring to climb will only get frustrated and quit.

ESO charm is being able to hop in at any time queue for a bg and have fun with a build I created - good, fun casual game. WOW rated arenas are worse that my physical master hws, and way more frustrating.

Also anyone that says wow arena model is good has never played wow and does not know its current state, that's from someone that has 2k rated exp in arena/bg. You want to play mistweaver? Sorry not meta, reroll!

I prefer the GW2 model. elitism and toxicity will always be in competitive games. This game is no different. But people of all skill levels can be competitive. The definition of being competitive is wanting competitive matches. Wanting to stomp noobs is the opposite of competitive.

My issue is with players who think domination and relic mode are somewhow inferior game modes, when really they are just making up excuses for the fact they depend on overpowered builds and gear and can't play with any map strategy. . All brawn and no brains. All tactics and no strat. Like the above poster said, they only want certain meta dueling builds to be viable and refuse to play objectives and selfishly undermine the whole mmr system out of spite. This is the real problem.

Even if we gave these players their own deathmatch unranked practice qeue. They would still hop into the ranked qeue just to ragequit players because they have shown time and time again that is what they enjoy doing the most. They cried to ZOS that qeue times were too long and ZOS saw the playerbase is measly. So zos made random qeues and put in a solo mode. Which they undermine by syncdropping into or grouping on discord. If ZOS is not going to do anything about the cheating and poor sportsmanship by banning quitters, which means also those who decline qeues, while having an actual mmr qeue with a W/L record and Skill rating based leaderboard, I also suggest a maximum of 2 man premades. then this will never be a competitive community.

But to your point, I agree we should not reward these toxic players. Start with ensuring fair play before making any changes imo. I don't mind waiting 30 mins for a qeue if thats what it takes to build the playerbase again. make a ranked and unranked qeue instead of group and solo.

I come from gw2 as well - since beta in fact, plat player/full legendaries all that stuff which means nothing now days. I do not prefer gw2 model. You are cornered to play a certain play style if you pick a class - no diversity. Thief, decap bot. Team loses, your fault. There is difference in toxicity, every online game, every forum has it, tell me something I don't know.

WOW arena, failing, GW2 conquest mode, failed, hard and you should know it if you come from gw2, WVW don't get me started, you either face bots or the same team/players over and over and over. Their population is slim, small, probably not much bigger than ESO bgs, probably smaller who knows.

Games are different, all with pros/cons. But comparing ESO to gw2/wow pvp is not comparing apples to apples. You can't. The grass is never greener, somehow people think it that way.

Also, I do mind waiting 30 mins, and am willing to bet most will as well, most people work several hrs a day, and surprisingly a lot gamers are parents now, that is just reality, games are no longer cater to 15 year old that have all the time in the world, and don't have money to spend.

I hover between g3 and plat but you think it failed Compared to ESO which literally feels like it only has 50 people playing bg's? In GW2 the matches are way more competitive and I don't see the same people in every match even at offpeak times. What failed to you? NO diversity? The only class that is rarely played is warrior, which for years has always been nerfed into the ground for the avg player. But of course the top players can still dominate with it. Every other class is played with a diversity of builds. You can look at sites like metabattle which rate them all.

All these games are mmo's with similar 4v4 arena modes.

I wait 30 mins for a dungeon sometimes. The qeues definitely don't have to be instant but ESO needs to stop claiming this game has an mmr, because at this point it definitely does not. Whats great about this game is you can do other things while queuing, like play cyrodil or duel. Most competitive players will prefer competitive matches and waiting 20-30 mins to get one would be worth it and at the same time would build the playerbase back up. Most people I know who play this game won't even do the daily its so brutal lol.

And so what are you saying? In real life "parents" have to give up atheletic sports too? Thats as lame as the excuse that crashing and disconnects are reasons not to penalize quitting and que decliners. Meanwhile RIOT does it with LoL and those matches can last up to 45 mins long.

Gw2 matches are not competitive, not close, not a little bit, just no. Build diversity, there are 8 classes, each class has one, some two meta specs. Use a different spec on higher rating guess what, you will get *** on by all your teammates, theif decap monkey, guardian support.

What failed to me, hackers, bots, griefing, devs focusing in other mods, no build diversity (metabattle, funny look at godsofpvp, more informative site), no expansion in what 4 years? nothing added. Getting matched to bronze players due to the declining population, to name a few a d the cycle continues. I am wondering if we are taking about the same game.

I am not defending ESO, nor claiming ESO mmr system Is good. But to say other games do it better is also not true, far from it. Very few players want to wait 20-30 mins, very very few, design a game around those players and say bye bye to your player base. Go look at WOW and you will understand. What you are saying will do the opposite from building a player base. People don't wa t to wait 20-30 mins for a 15 min game. I would also like to see different pvp game modes btw. But playing other games like wow and gw2 I do not want ESO to do what they are doing.

I don't understand your last paragraph about parents and athletic sports, nor your analogy. You lost some credibility now that you brought LoL to this topic. Want to compare ESO to minecraft while you are at it? Or rollercoaster tycoon?

8 classes with multiple viable specs is not build diversity? Quite a contrast from ESO that has stamden, magcro and stam sorc which dominate other classes by a long mile. But why are you getting offtopic? What does any of this have to do with having competitive matches and a real leaderboard? Do you not know the definition? If people didn't cry about qeu8e times and we had a real mmr, it doesn't matter what level you are playing at you can and should be able to have competitive matches. Without someone so selfish they think they are entitled to stomp noobs. The complete opposite of competitive.

What failed to you is whats wrong with eso, not gw2 bud. There are problems in every pc game. But barely noticeable in gw2, unlike eso which most people in their right mind avoid. Extremely ironic lol.

The mmr system does not exist, because people cry about long qeue times and sync drop in the solo qeue and are constantly rolling toons like the dudes in u50 cyrodil lmao. . Thats why even if we give these selfish players , that ruin matches for competitive players who try to win in each game mode, a DM qeue they will still tier slum in the other gamodes when they get bored or get tired of waiting in qeue. Thats why ZOS took it away from them in the first place. Noone plays cause there is nothing competitive about it.

My last paragraph means the fact you are a parent is no excuse. make time to play the game if you want to play it. Just like people do with real life athletic sports where they have to drive to a physical location other then their desk chair. gimme a break. LOL is the only pc game popular by my standards and the main reason is because their core community is as competitive as the original counterstrike community was and because they ban quitters and smurfers. BTW a term coined by that community like stackers were coined by cs..

ESO does have more build diversity than any other AAA MMO IMO - classes and builds are two different things, don't mix them up.

Still, you do not make much sense comparing sports and video games. in terms of "making time" in several more years you may understand.

ESO can improve, mmr, etc. Yes. I'll be okay with 3v3, 4v4 as one person suggested few posts up only as long it does not copy gw2/wow like other people are suggesting in this post. But I am still inclined to say no I actually enjoy 4v4v4, feels less oppressive when you have a very dominant team/players in one team.

How about Destiny2, on weekends they have Trials of Osiris, that is their competitive scene, 3v3 death match. They provided better rewards, transmogs etc. Once a month they have Iron Banner for a whole week, you can say it is a team vs team competitive mode with unique rewards as well. They have other modes as well, all vs all, (8 people I think), etc.

KingKayanto wrote: »

I'd like to see a Guild vs Guild league or something like it, hell give the weekly winner a free guild trader for the next week or something to motivate organized group play! The prize should be worth it for the most hardcore players and give good AP rewards to encourage participation.

4 v 4 Guild vs Guild Domination or Crazy King maybe? I feel like deathmatch wouldn't be optimal, it would have to be a gamemode where most of the playstyles (roamer, damage, tank, support etc.) can be useful. I thought about domination first since you'd have different strategies like staying stacked for buffs and roaming the map together, or take a risk, split up etc...

TheAlphaRaider wrote: »

CooloutAC wrote: »

Ezorus wrote: »

More PvP options are needed, competitive modes and bigger team BGs. As long as it's no CP. WoW's competitive arena are a good model to go off as long as it doesn't go the same way of 40 mins kiting around a pillar with no one dying. Eso needs to introduce PvP gear that is gained through PvP and only best for it

I'm not sure making it more gear based is the answer. I never considered wow an e-sport. To me games like LoL, Gw2, and CS are e-sports because its not based on a grind or obtained advantages before the match.

I think we just need to start with having a proper matchmaker and leaderboard and penalities for undermining them. otherwise nothing else will really matter.

i think you are right, in order to have a fair and balanced arena for competition you need something like GW2 arena pvp. Scaled gear etc. This doesnt mean you have to get rid of BG classic. You just add something like BG Vanilla. I'm sure thats a tall order even so.

techyeshic wrote: »

I hate so called competetive PvP in MMOs. What happens is, to be actually competetive; there needs to be a huge focus on balance and that leads to even bigger swings than what we know, and ultimately I feel like the devs get tired of chasing it so they start pruning the tree of diversity to have less things to worry about. And that is in MMOs where players are largely limited to class skills. I can't imagine the crying it would bring to ESO. It would make any crying that goes on now look more like a humid day compared to the downpour for "competitive" PvP.

I will always be against it.

CooloutAC wrote: »

fbours wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

I hate so called competetive PvP in MMOs. What happens is, to be actually competetive; there needs to be a huge focus on balance and that leads to even bigger swings than what we know, and ultimately I feel like the devs get tired of chasing it so they start pruning the tree of diversity to have less things to worry about. And that is in MMOs where players are largely limited to class skills. I can't imagine the crying it would bring to ESO. It would make any crying that goes on now look more like a humid day compared to the downpour for "competitive" PvP.

I will always be against it.

Fully agree. What you see in gw2/wow.

The bg modes in those games are much more popular though. As far as the 50 regular players that dominate eso now, Would the rest of community and ZOS really care how much they cry about things being more fair? good riddens.

And its not really about balancing the game. Its about balancing teams. In real life the skill gaps and learning curves are much much wider then they are in video games. But yet, how do they manage to have competitive leagues? Well for one thing, you don't have people crying in real life that they are entitled to stomp noobs. Period. In real life people want competitive matches, they want each team to have a fair chance to challenge themselves otherwise they would lose respect and can't remain anonymous and change their face.

I mean games like LoL and GW2 heavily penalize quitters and qeue decliners and discourage smurf accounts and tier slumming. You can even get permanently banned. Those players don't go into an objective game mode and start dueling each other without even trying to win the match. I mean if you were really competitive, you would realize competitive matchups and the bragging rights of a win/loss and elo ranking are what competitive players want. Dueling is not even considered competitive in those games because of the class imbalances.