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Unpopular opinion
NoodleESO
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Combat balance changes do not count as a PVP content update. The pvp community is being starved of content, added dlc would thin the playerbase I understand but improvements to the existing system have been nonexistent for years.
Each year ESO gets 4 dungeons, 1 Trail, and 2 zones that all come with the works and incentives, at this point Zos should consider adding PvP content for a quarter instead of 2 more dungeons.
I only voice my concern because as a 4 year eso pvp player i've never seen the game so stale. Theres less people taking an interest to pvp each year and its getting to the point where you realize, you and the person you're fighting have both been waiting for that "big break" or "updated servers" zos will give us for 3 plus years.
But thats not coming, theres no new guilds, less new people, no update in the works, and more lag.
Each year ESO gets 4 dungeons, 1 Trail, and 2 zones that all come with the works and incentives, at this point Zos should consider adding PvP content for a quarter instead of 2 more dungeons.
I only voice my concern because as a 4 year eso pvp player i've never seen the game so stale. Theres less people taking an interest to pvp each year and its getting to the point where you realize, you and the person you're fighting have both been waiting for that "big break" or "updated servers" zos will give us for 3 plus years.
But thats not coming, theres no new guilds, less new people, no update in the works, and more lag.
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wouldn't count on PVP getting anything new until ZOS can fix the performance problems with the PVP that they already have.
And I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon.23 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Updated content isn't going to fix what is ailing PvP.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."7 -
BisDasBlutGefriert✭✭✭✭✭I always enjoy reading these unpopular opinion threads. Never know what they contain, and always neat to hear other opinions on different subjects 😁~There’s a positive in every negative. Sometimes the positive is harder to find than other times, but there is ALWAYS one there~6 -
NoodleESO✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I wouldn't count on PVP getting anything new until ZOS can fix the performance problems with the PVP that they already have.
And I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon.
Right but if the Pvp player base dwindles down then why would a studio need allocate the resources for preformance? PvP performance becomes irrelevant if theres only a minority of players complaining about it.
Why not increase the PVP community so performance becomes high demand and worth the time and money? I believe you have this backwards but hey its an unpopular opinion.6 -
Wolfpaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Combat balance changes do not count as a PVP content update. The pvp community is being starved of content, added dlc would thin the playerbase I understand but improvements to the existing system have been nonexistent for years.
Each year ESO gets 4 dungeons, 1 Trail, and 2 zones that all come with the works and incentives, at this point Zos should consider adding PvP content for a quarter instead of 2 more dungeons.
I only voice my concern because as a 4 year eso pvp player i've never seen the game so stale. Theres less people taking an interest to pvp each year and its getting to the point where you realize, you and the person you're fighting have both been waiting for that "big break" or "updated servers" zos will give us for 3 plus years.
But thats not coming, theres no new guilds, less new people, no update in the works, and more lag.
They can't, & all they talk about in interviews is pve. What we have seen in the last few years will be the same from here on out.Edited by Wolfpaw on May 19, 2021 3:03AM0 -
tomofhyrule✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why not increase the PVP community so performance becomes high demand and worth the time and money? I believe you have this backwards but hey its an unpopular opinion.
This begs the question: will adding new PvP content increase the numbers of players in PvP, or just further split the current PvP base?
ESO has been shifting in general from a PvP stance at launch to focus more on the PvE side (and the solo PvErs at that), and I don't think anyone will doubt that fact. The idea is that there are a lot of Elder Scrolls fans that were really against ESO in the first place - The Elder Scrolls is a series of single player games, not an MMO, and there were loads of fans that refused to even consider this game canon. That's been softening lately, and they've been playing into nostalgia quite a bit and drawing those fans in.
The PvE side, specifically the solo PvErs, are now really a large portion of the player base, and those are exactly the people who will not touch PvP with a ten foot pole. We already have people making new "Why are you forcing us into PvP!" threads every Midyear Mayhem, and it'll only get more frequent when Endeavors drop ("What do you mean I need to do Bruma quests to get my seals!" "I got ganked at the door!" "We need PvE Cyrodiil!"). Now Endeavors are a way that they could support more people getting into PvP, but there's just as good a chance that it'll just lead to more complaints on the forum about being forced into content that people don't want to do.
Adding new PvP content sounds like a good idea, but knowing the playerbase it may only shift the PvP population around without really bringing anyone else in. We know that they removed selectable BG games since the playerbase wasn't large enough to support both choosing games and grouping, now imagine if half of the BG players now were off in another mode.
I think one of the biggest things that prevents people from getting into PvP is the fact that you need such a different build for it - in PvE stamina is basically useless, but it's the complete opposite in PvP. It doesn't help that every update has massive changes for sets, which more often than not ends up a hefty nerf to PvE while not really fixing the problem it had in PvP or vice versa. It also takes a different type of player who likes the competition - changing a PvEr into a PvPer in ESO is probably much harder than getting a PvPer from a different MMO to swap into ESO instead. If they wanted to go that road, they'd need to figure out how to entice other player from other games, without - most importantly - turning away their massive solo PvE base.Edited by tomofhyrule on May 19, 2021 1:58AM9 -
propertyOfUndefined✭✭✭✭✭Sadly... as a battlegrounds player who’s been at it for the past 2 years, the lack of new content that affects no-cp pvp, coupled with the lack of any meaningful rewards, makes me question why I even play sometimes
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ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The pvp community is being starved of content,
You think that's unpopular? That's all I ever hear around the Forum whenever a new Chapter is announced.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!5 -
YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's an unpopular opinion in the grand scheme of ESO things but it's not an unpopular opinion for anyone who cares about PvP and wants to see it succeed.
Last Chapter was already quite light on PvP 'content' but we at least had the token bone thrown to us in the form of the Lancer. This update... they're not even trying to pretend that PvP is taken seriously any longer within their development pipeline.
I'm only a medium-term player in larger ESO timeline (started in early 2019) but in the time that I have been playing the Lancer is literally the only piece of new content that has been added to the game mode. That's pretty sad.7 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭PVP doesn't sell DLC and chapters. Stories and collectables do. Look at Imperial City as an example.
A PVP DLC was a year one deal only. You will never see it again and good riddance. It should be looked at as an afterthought and not a main selling point. This isn't Fortnite.11 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I wouldn't count on PVP getting anything new until ZOS can fix the performance problems with the PVP that they already have.
And I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon.
Right but if the Pvp player base dwindles down then why would a studio need allocate the resources for preformance? PvP performance becomes irrelevant if theres only a minority of players complaining about it.
Why not increase the PVP community so performance becomes high demand and worth the time and money? I believe you have this backwards but hey its an unpopular opinion.
What are you going to add that's magically going to increase the PVP community?
Cyrodiil is very popular when it works well.
Battlegrounds has struggled for population since Launch, and we're currently at the point where ZOS can't split the queues any farther without wait times getting excessive. It's basically: "You can have solo/group queue, pick-your-mode queue, and a reasonable wait time; pick two."
Imperial City's mixed PvPvE gameplay is the very opposite of popular, despite ZOS giving it away for free. It's pretty well populated during events when ZOS bribes people with event tickets and Tel Var to go there...and afterwards it's pretty much dead except for a few Tel Var farmers and the players who hunt them.
Most players in ESO will casually PVP during events for some extra rewards, then happily go back to PVE when it's over. That's true of Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, and IC, and it's probably true of any new content that could be added.
So, really, what is your master plan for what we can add to ESO to increase the PVP community? What new content is going to bring in new PVPers and not just split the current PVP playerbase further?
I'm very serious when I say the best thing ZOS can do is fix the performance problems they have in Cyrodiil. Cyrodiil is hands down the most popular PVP mode ESO has, with PVPers and casual players alike. Fixing it would bring back a lot of players who quit in frustration as well as providing a solid draw to players who come to ESO for PVP, instead of being a negative experience as they immediately realize that ESO just doesn't perform that well in the large scale combat it promises to provide.10 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭We could at least get Eld Angavar back on the playlist. Has anybody had that rink this patch?Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast1 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I wouldn't count on PVP getting anything new until ZOS can fix the performance problems with the PVP that they already have.
And I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon.
Not arguing with your point but I think OP has an idea worth considering. I have noticed that both options for PvP are part of the base game. Essentially free after the initial purchase of the game. Maybe it is time for Zos to figure out how to monetize the PvP. Maybe even make it part of ESO+ instead of selling it as a DLC.
Granted, I realize this is not really a PvP game at it's core but if there are enough truly interested in a new PvP then this may be worth looking into though I expect Zenimax has a good idea of where that stands.0 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »I wouldn't count on PVP getting anything new until ZOS can fix the performance problems with the PVP that they already have.
And I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon.
Not arguing with your point but I think OP has an idea worth considering. I have noticed that both options for PvP are part of the base game. Essentially free after the initial purchase of the game. Maybe it is time for Zos to figure out how to monetize the PvP. Maybe even make it part of ESO+ instead of selling it as a DLC.
Granted, I realize this is not really a PvP game at it's core but if there are enough truly interested in a new PvP then this may be worth looking into though I expect Zenimax has a good idea of where that stands.
ZOS already monetized PVP effectively. All PVPers do is buy race change tokens patch after patch. Or they buy alliance change tokens as their PvP guilds fracture from infighting. Add a requested class change token and ka-Ching.5 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭Performance issues aren't a pvp only issue. There is lag in trials and other intensive activities. I've even had lag when soloing old dungeons.5 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I wouldn't count on PVP getting anything new until ZOS can fix the performance problems with the PVP that they already have.
And I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon.
Right but if the Pvp player base dwindles down then why would a studio need allocate the resources for preformance? PvP performance becomes irrelevant if theres only a minority of players complaining about it.
Why not increase the PVP community so performance becomes high demand and worth the time and money? I believe you have this backwards but hey its an unpopular opinion.
How exactly do you draw in new players for PvP when performance is bad in the first place? The new player experience would be negative, because of the performance, and they would not continue to participate.
Only when your system is running well so that PvP is about the skill and not the Bugs, THEN is when you want to attract new players.
First impressions last forever.
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ThreeXB✭✭✭✭The best thing for Cyrodiil PVP and revitalize PVP guilds AFTER FIXING PERFORMANCE ISSUES would be raise population cap. Cyrodiil is a massive zone and with a population cap of 400ish ( vs 2000 at launch ) makes alot of stale and empty territory. Battles used to be epic and there were usually many large battles all over the map, now it is usually 1 or 2 larger battles at most.4 -
ThorianB✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have done pvp for more than 20 years in more than a hundred games and ESO is in the bottom 5 for PVP. When i want to PVP i log out of ESO not into it. PVP was attempted 3 times in ESO and all 3 times they failed with it. PVP is not very popular in ESO. I, personally, find the combat system to be horrible for pvp but that is only one of many problems. The 3 faction thing is also kind of cheesy at this point. You can tell they kind of got away from that since they first introduced cyro but it still a core mechanic in pvp which actually makes it worse not better.
All PVP currently in ESO needs to be scrapped. Cyro and IC needs to be turned into PVE zones. Then they need to redesign battlegrounds with the same effort and care they design dungeons. None of that 3 faction circle jerk nonsense. Each battleground should be a unique scenario with objectives tailored to that battleground.
Scrap the whole faction war thing and use Oblivion pocket realms to allow guilds to acquire "land" and build cities and fortifications. Then develop a guild war pvp system based around guild cities.
PVP needs to be something people get excited about and people want to do. Sieges and defending against sieges ( like Shadowbane had) when its your own build city and fortifications is a lot more interesting than horse simulator galloping around taking forts when the other side has low pops.6 -
Andre_Noir✭✭✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Last Chapter was already quite light on PvP 'content' but we at least had the token bone thrown to us in the form of the Lancer. This update... they're not even trying to pretend that PvP is taken seriously any longer within their development pipeline.
Not rly. Monsters from IC and mystics (head/legs/and those for transform) are mostly for PVP1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO has been shifting in general from a PvP stance at launch to focus more on the PvE side (and the solo PvErs at that), and I don't think anyone will doubt that fact. The idea is that there are a lot of Elder Scrolls fans that were really against ESO in the first place - The Elder Scrolls is a series of single player games, not an MMO, and there were loads of fans that refused to even consider this game canon. That's been softening lately, and they've been playing into nostalgia quite a bit and drawing those fans in.
The PvE side, specifically the solo PvErs, are now really a large portion of the player base
Worst part is that solo PvE has been equated to Simple & Easy - I am an TES fan but I certainly don't enjoy playing on ONLY "Novice" Difficulty. I actually like my Solo questing experience to make me think about what I am doing. I don't want all enemies to be the same difficulty or equally simple.
Besides damage output and health, the zone enemies have bare bones basic mechanics and don't do much of anything. They don't really ever have any unique or interesting mechanics to change things up or make you think about what you are doing. This is fine for basic mobs but what about the "Bigger NPCs"?
A Bandit Chief should operate differently from a Bandit - A Dragon Priest should be VERY dangerous compared to an average Draugr - heck even Trolls are practically harmless. It's all about burning through everything with DPS - is it any wonder why no one really tries mixing things with healer or tanks in general overland? You don't need to, no matter your level.
You are very, very, rarely likely to ever get killed in overland unless it is in WB or Dolmen encounter. The fact is that you don't have to think about what you are doing in Overland, because everything is so simple. Nothing is Dangerous and that makes questing Extremely Boring
(though tbf not as bad as WoW overland questing, at least ESO has good written quests compared to "Get X number of Y" which is so prevalent in WoW.
But I'd like ESO Main Story Bosses to be a bigger deal like the main story bosses in WoW, or even the single player TES games3 -
PrimusTiberius✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »I wouldn't count on PVP getting anything new until ZOS can fix the performance problems with the PVP that they already have.
And I wouldn't count on that happening anytime soon.
I wouldn't count on it allEveryone is going in one direction, I'm going the other direction0 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Like in every PvE based story driven RPG. PvP is a mini game addon. Never expected it to be priority. PvPers make up less of the community than hardcore trial/raiders do.
You can always tell this when they try to balance PvE skills around PvP which is mathematically impossible to do, oh but they keep trying to do it. This is in ever game that has both from ESO, to Division 1 and 2. They make changes, and break PvE then have to push out fixes for the 98% of the playerbase which then just makes PvP terrible again.1 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’d rather have performance stability than new pvp content. People would rightfully be livid if development time and money went into new pvp content while the pop caps in cyrodiil have been gutted yet the game is still a dumpster fire during prime time.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche3 -
Lephrel✭✭✭✭✭PvP is a lost cause, they have given up on it completely. Apart from shaking up combat balance with every update, there hasn't been a change to PvP for years (apart from a new bg map being thrown in from time to time).
Basically all long time PvP players have quit the game, Cyrodiil performance continues to deteriorate, even though the playerbase is dying off, and afaik there are no actual plans to improve PvP in a meaningful way.2 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I’d rather have performance stability than new pvp content. People would rightfully be livid if development time and money went into new pvp content while the pop caps in cyrodiil have been gutted yet the game is still a dumpster fire during prime time.
Except people need to understand development and network stability teams aren't the same ones. So they could develop an entire continent of nothing but PvP content and it wouldn't take any time away from working on the stability. ZoS isn't just like 30 people doing everything.
Almost everything you can think of has it's own department with unique people. Yes there are some crossover, but nothing that would shut down and entire department.2 -
Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭I have great idea how to improve pvp.
Remove immunity of the group members to spells casted by other group members & then watch how zerglings are killing themselves ^^6 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tbh. If PvP content was successfully and it would make $ , then we would have more of it.
But it did not.
Just look at IC. This DLC was so badly received that it became "free" DLC, just to populate it. But even now it is a dead zone, and at the same time most toxic one.
Same for Cyrodiil. It used to be awesome back in 2014 - 2015, when it worked.
Right now it is just a ruin of what it used to be. Ignoring the lag there are numerous exploits that if it was any other game would be removed immediately. But ZOS does not seem to care and imho if things will go as they are now, even if lag one day would be gone, not many people will care about PvP if they will leave exploits untouched.
The most recent update for PvP (war tortes) showed clearly what current Cyro is for majority of playerbase - to get AW skill lines maxed and possibly AW rank ASAP and get the hell out of there and never go back.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on May 19, 2021 1:08PM3 -
NoodleESO✭✭✭✭✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »PVP doesn't sell DLC and chapters. Stories and collectables do. Look at Imperial City as an example.
A PVP DLC was a year one deal only. You will never see it again and good riddance. It should be looked at as an afterthought and not a main selling point. This isn't Fortnite.
IC failed because it was a hybrid and it is actually hard content. You dont see guilds advertising running a group in there because everyone knows they're gonna get ripped apart from 3-4 excellent pvp players and lose all of their tel var. IC can not be compared to the rest of pvp its like saying public dungeons and trials are the same thing.6 -
DinoZavr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hi,
1. TESO is a commercial product.
2. Financial gains from attracting new customers exceed the losses of veteran churn
3. Totally new players avoid PVP as they are not prepared for being totally dominated there by vets
(PVP is all about domination, that is the very nature of killing each others)
4. PVP is a niche ZOS can tolerate its loss. Customers retain is NOT, and never was, the priority.
So, why wonder?
edit: typoEdited by DinoZavr on May 19, 2021 2:49PMPC EU4
