Dual sword stamsorc

UGotBenched91 · May 2021

Hi friends,

My last couple PVP builds have been two handed/bow. I want to switch up and use dual swords and I’m thinking of going stamsorc. This is uncharted territory for me and I’m curious how viable a build like this can be?

Draevik · May 2021

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Hi friends,

My last couple PVP builds have been two handed/bow. I want to switch up and use dual swords and I’m thinking of going stamsorc. This is uncharted territory for me and I’m curious how viable a build like this can be?

I solely play dual wield because I hate feeling like everyone else with cheesy DBoS, Dizzying spam. However, unless you run BRP dual wield or something you will feel very outclassed.

DSwing is just way too overloaded and the 2-handed line in general gives a ton of resource gen. Running malacath with DW feels like shooting yourself in the foot.

Basically every other successful stamsorc I see runs the same cheese cookie cutter build and it has driven me away from it, to test out a stamdk.

2-hand, streak, dswing, executioner, DBoS. Nothing new, nothing original but it seems to work. Before the changes I had a dual wield build using the Knightmare set and Briarheart. Then malacath and the changes to major/minor buffs came out and that setup stopped being really useful.

Sorry, just a bit salty and frustrated at the game that promotes play your way, but forces you to play a template build to be competitive.

UGotBenched91 · May 2021

Hey thanks I appreciate the information. I’ll get a lot of hate for this comment as I know it’s against how scrolls games work but I hate how a lot of skills are focused around weapons. Kills the diversity in this game IMO. Yes, I can play how I want and go off the road but if I’m shooting myself in the foot by doing so what’s the point?

But I’m going to still try for this and see what I can pull off.

Draevik · May 2021

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Hey thanks I appreciate the information. I’ll get a lot of hate for this comment as I know it’s against how scrolls games work but I hate how a lot of skills are focused around weapons. Kills the diversity in this game IMO. Yes, I can play how I want and go off the road but if I’m shooting myself in the foot by doing so what’s the point?

But I’m going to still try for this and see what I can pull off.

Yeah 2-hand outclasses pretty much all spammables for every class. Which is sad really.

I encourage you to try it, or try anything different really. I just wish more builds were effective. Because against meta builds there is a complete chasm.

gariondavey · May 2021

Dw is strong on sorc. Very strong.

Luede · May 2021

sorc is imo the best DW class u can play. with next patch there are some rly nice procc builds with DW

Draevik · May 2021

Luede wrote: »

sorc is imo the best DW class u can play. with next patch there are some rly nice procc builds with DW

Now take away the proc cheese and you will see that running high WD with 2h is definitely better for both burst and survivability.

L_Nici · May 2021

Stamsorc has great tools for Dualwield, especially with Crystal weapon added. Since the dualwield light and heavy attacks are insanely fast, it doesn't interrupt the rotation as much as it does on 2h. Also you have access to Major Evasion without wearing Medium Armor (which you should do anyway) thanks to Blade Cloak for example. Also Blade Cloak and Hurricane greatly stack on each other and draw a circle around you, that deals nice passive Damage, which can trigger Poisons and fuel Critical Surge for Healing. For even more additional healing over time you can also use Bloodcraze on Masterswords paired with Briarheart, even though the later will get nerfed next patch, by scaling the healing of MaxStamina (the 450 Weapon Power stay the same), and not many Stamsorcs have 40k Stamina to get the original effect.
I saw some Stamsorcs straight up nuking people on Dualwield with Crystal Weapon on light attack into Spin to Win.

Funfact: You can actually stack Elemental Weapon of Psijic on Crystal Weapon and hit fast enough for both to grant their damage.

Draevik · May 2021

L_Nici wrote: »

Stamsorc has great tools for Dualwield, especially with Crystal weapon added. Since the dualwield light and heavy attacks are insanely fast, it doesn't interrupt the rotation as much as it does on 2h. Also you have access to Major Evasion without wearing Medium Armor (which you should do anyway) thanks to Blade Cloak for example. Also Blade Cloak and Hurricane greatly stack on each other and draw a circle around you, that deals nice passive Damage, which can trigger Poisons and fuel Critical Surge for Healing. For even more additional healing over time you can also use Bloodcraze on Masterswords paired with Briarheart, even though the later will get nerfed next patch, by scaling the healing of MaxStamina (the 450 Weapon Power stay the same), and not many Stamsorcs have 40k Stamina to get the original effect.
I saw some Stamsorcs straight up nuking people on Dualwield with Crystal Weapon on light attack into Spin to Win.

Funfact: You can actually stack Elemental Weapon of Psijic on Crystal Weapon and hit fast enough for both to grant their damage.

If we are speaking of PVE or PVP there is a big difference.

Because chances are a stamsorc would run malacath and use rally instead. I am one of the few DW stamsorcs I see in BGs.

There are only so many slots on your bar and giving up one for Blade Cloak without BRPDW is probably a bad idea.

Bloodcraze healing is negligible
Rending Slashes even with master's weapons hits for less burst damage than Rapid Strike
The healing from Briarheart is complete rubbish in PVP, a 5 second window on BH can mean your death.

I want you to go and try to stack crystal weapon with crushing weapon and use it effectively in PVP without using a bow. Besides there are better spammables that can be paired with Crystal Weapon for a burst window.

Now in PVE, yes everything you said can work very well, however I still wouldn't use Stinging Slashes weapons.

L_Nici · May 2021

Malacath is propaply the most worthless item to run on Stamsorc as long as you don't start using flat damage Procs, which would be very sad indeed. Stamsorcs profit way to much from Crits to let them go. Especially on a Dualwield build since you won't have Rally to heal and are bound to Critical Surge. The point of Briarheart is not really the healing, but the Weapon power you get combined with that little additional healing on many healing sources you have already. While Briarheart alone may be low, paired with Crit Surge, and if you want, Bloodcraze thats a very solid passive healing you have on top of the use of Vigor. Also you can play around with sets all you like its not something I order you to use, I just like Briarheart a lot since ever.

I play Stamsorc since the game launched and I never even considered to ever drop crit (not even after the nerf to Critchance). Stamsorc can stack way more damage without Malacath than with it. I don't use Rally since ages (even though I do run 2h currently), but if you want you can use it in addition to Critsurge as well, that actually fits depending on your Build on the frontbar.

Also about Blade Cloak, just use it instead of Shuffle, you get the same buff with additional damage, or just don't use it its all up to you. You don't need to care about Snares (Forward Momentum) or similar since Stamsorc has that nice Ball of Lightning which grants immunity, or even streak itself which won't grant you immunity, but you can move with it, even if snared or CCed to buy your time to break free.

Its always just a question of your build and playstyle. If you play 2h and Dualwield for example, you have plenty of space for everything I just said minus Crystal weapon, since the Dualwield bar is then mainly a passive one, with:

Bloodcraze, Streak/Ball of Lightning, Quick Cloak (Major Expedition and Major Evasion), Hurricane and Vigor.

While the front obviously holds:

D Swing (I still wish there would be a better spammable), Camouflaged Hunter (for Crit and more damage on flank), Executioner, Critical Surge and depending on what you want Bound Armaments/Rally.

Missing a Dark Deal there, but if you run Rally its not really needed.

To use Dualwield on front is a bit trickier, if you insist on Crystal Weapon (personally I really want to play it, but just can't get used to it), and I would play a bow on back then, because why using 2h on a backbar, its clearly a way more offensive tree.
But still you could certainly use it with:

Blood Craze/Rending Slashes(or if you really feel Crystal Weapon drop those two options completely it provides enough damage, or if you don't need the heal of Blood Craze go for Rapid Strikes there is a lot of variable options here.), Camouflaged Hunter/Turn Undead/Deadly Cloak (Bow will provide the Major Expedition already), Spin to Win, Crit Surge, Bound Armaments/Crystal Weapon.

With Bow on the back:

Poison Inject, Streak/Ball of Lightning, Dark Deal, Hurricane, Vigor.

You can of course swap places in between those bars, as long as Poison Injection doesn't end up without a bow or something like that, its just the way I would prefer it.

Draevik · May 2021

L_Nici wrote: »

Malacath is propaply the most worthless item to run on Stamsorc as long as you don't start using flat damage Procs, which would be very sad indeed. Stamsorcs profit way to much from Crits to let them go. Especially on a Dualwield build since you won't have Rally to heal and are bound to Critical Surge. The point of Briarheart is not really the healing, but the Weapon power you get combined with that little additional healing on many healing sources you have already. While Briarheart alone may be low, paired with Crit Surge, and if you want, Bloodcraze thats a very solid passive healing you have on top of the use of Vigor. Also you can play around with sets all you like its not something I order you to use, I just like Briarheart a lot since ever.

I play Stamsorc since the game launched and I never even considered to ever drop crit (not even after the nerf to Critchance). Stamsorc can stack way more damage without Malacath than with it. I don't use Rally since ages (even though I do run 2h currently), but if you want you can use it in addition to Critsurge as well, that actually fits depending on your Build on the frontbar.

Also about Blade Cloak, just use it instead of Shuffle, you get the same buff with additional damage, or just don't use it its all up to you. You don't need to care about Snares (Forward Momentum) or similar since Stamsorc has that nice Ball of Lightning which grants immunity, or even streak itself which won't grant you immunity, but you can move with it, even if snared or CCed to buy your time to break free.

Its always just a question of your build and playstyle. If you play 2h and Dualwield for example, you have plenty of space for everything I just said minus Crystal weapon, since the Dualwield bar is then mainly a passive one, with:

Bloodcraze, Streak/Ball of Lightning, Quick Cloak (Major Expedition and Major Evasion), Hurricane and Vigor.

While the front obviously holds:

D Swing (I still wish there would be a better spammable), Camouflaged Hunter (for Crit and more damage on flank), Executioner, Critical Surge and depending on what you want Bound Armaments/Rally.

Missing a Dark Deal there, but if you run Rally its not really needed.

To use Dualwield on front is a bit trickier, if you insist on Crystal Weapon (personally I really want to play it, but just can't get used to it), and I would play a bow on back then, because why using 2h on a backbar, its clearly a way more offensive tree.
But still you could certainly use it with:

Blood Craze/Rending Slashes(or if you really feel Crystal Weapon drop those two options completely it provides enough damage, or if you don't need the heal of Blood Craze go for Rapid Strikes there is a lot of variable options here.), Camouflaged Hunter/Turn Undead/Deadly Cloak (Bow will provide the Major Expedition already), Spin to Win, Crit Surge, Bound Armaments/Crystal Weapon.

With Bow on the back:

Poison Inject, Streak/Ball of Lightning, Dark Deal, Hurricane, Vigor.

You can of course swap places in between those bars, as long as Poison Injection doesn't end up without a bow or something like that, its just the way I would prefer it.

I get what you mean about crit, I ran crit builds forever on the Stamsorc, but I switched once I realized how many different gear combos it would allow me to wear using malacath. It isn't like Stamsorcs get a bunch of innate weapon crit or any crit damage from passives. The only real use is crit surge and the possibility of critting on someone.

Whereas swtiching to Malacath you can literally run whatever you want and stack way more weapon damage/pen than with dual wield crit build because you are likely wearing a high crit set, thief mundus, dual wield daggers, possibly both or at least one precise. You lose a slot on your bar for camo hunter.

If 2h is your main weapon I don't see how running a crit build helps because you lose the crit from running DW daggers. You would have to invest heavily into crit to make it worthwhile. Plus you are already at an inherent disadvantage because right out of the gate people negate 20% of your crit damage without investing anything into it. Meaning without crit damage bonus your crits will hit for 5% more damage than Malacath grants and it is only some of the time depending on your crit chance. And I will venture to guess you are sitting at around 40-50% crit chance max.

Without crit bonus; you can hit 30% harder 40-50% of the time or hit 25% harder all of the time with Malacath. And if they have impen gear that means you only hit for 20% extra damage on a crit... I know which I would take.

As it stands Malacath is just far too powerful on almost every class except maybe a NB or possibly Templar running crit damage build.

L_Nici · May 2021

And exactly that is the reason why Crit is so great. People underestimate it completely, which is why people don't use Impen or the CP to higher Critresist, which in turn rises my damage even more.
I have 49% Crit, 106% Crit Damage, on 6k Weapon power, 33k Stamina and 10.5k Pen without Procs. If Procs return my values change a little to 43% Crit, 106% Crit Damage, on 8k Weapon Power, 34k Stamina and 21k Pen only counting buffs I can personally control, so its not the maximum I can reach. On special conditions I reached 43% Crit, 106% Crit Damage, on 10310 Weapon Power, 34k Stamina and 29348 Pen in game already. Malacath can go bury itself compared especially since my values count for healing too.
Crit and Pen rule the Damage in PvP, flat Weapon power gets walled on the *** 30k+ Resist Builds with their 50k Health. There is a reason Stamblades are so viable currently, they don't even care about your health or Resists, they murder you anyway and don't even need to invest in Crit, since they always crit from Cloak.

katorga · May 2021

L_Nici wrote: »

And exactly that is the reason why Crit is so great. People underestimate it completely, which is why people don't use Impen or the CP to higher Critresist, which in turn rises my damage even more.

Don't forget crit healing, the secret sauce, and fewer counters than crit damage.

MashmalloMan · May 2021

katorga wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

And exactly that is the reason why Crit is so great. People underestimate it completely, which is why people don't use Impen or the CP to higher Critresist, which in turn rises my damage even more.

Don't forget crit healing, the secret sauce, and fewer counters than crit damage.

Yeah Crit Surge heals can crit too. I'm not really playing right now, but when I get around to it, I want to try a Khajiit, Tzogvin + Briarheart DW Stam Sorc build. Impen is pretty useless, even if someone does choose to use it, each piece (if gold) only gives 2% crit damage resist. With the base 20% you get, most people have switched to Well Fitted/Reinforced and even Divines.

I personally stopped using Rally/Forward Momentum when they removed the HoT it had. Snare removal is also not needed when you can use BoL/Streak. Crit Surge doubles up on the Major buff, so I always saw it as a waste for a stam sorc to use Rally/FM. I typically like to play as a brawler/dot build which fits passive healing better than a than a 2H bursty glass cannon build, which is where Rally/Dizzy shines.