The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Two-Handed Stampede Adjustment
Targettank
Soul Shriven
Thank you to the developers for taking the time to see the disparity with back bar weapon choices. It is an issue I have been staring at for a bit.
I would like to just make visible the reason that Bow and Shock staff back bars are the pick of choice. The reason these two end up being the choices is because of the length of time they are active for. Fourteen seconds is what makes Bow the best back bar weapon since it procs the enchant on the weapon at 10 seconds, causing the enchant to be active for 15 seconds. The extra 5 seconds, is roughly the time you need to make a full rotation on the front bar, and rotate back to the back bar before you need to activate Endless Hail again.
I appreciate the realization that Two-Handed and Dual Wield are lacking. I appreciate the comprehension that if you are melee has to pull off, because of melee damage, therefore for the greater risk melee deserves a greater reward.
As a recommendation, increasing the damage of melee is great, but the increase of duration from 10 seconds to 14 seconds (standardization), would cause the use of Two-Handers to increase as back bar weapons. This due to the fact that the 10 second time factor breaks up rotations (Venomous Claw, Noxious Breath, Trap Beast are over 10s) and decreases up time on Weapon/Spell Damage enchant.
Thanks for paying attention. I hope this is helpful in future developments.
Sincerely Your Sword-Singing Tank,
-Target
I would like to just make visible the reason that Bow and Shock staff back bars are the pick of choice. The reason these two end up being the choices is because of the length of time they are active for. Fourteen seconds is what makes Bow the best back bar weapon since it procs the enchant on the weapon at 10 seconds, causing the enchant to be active for 15 seconds. The extra 5 seconds, is roughly the time you need to make a full rotation on the front bar, and rotate back to the back bar before you need to activate Endless Hail again.
I appreciate the realization that Two-Handed and Dual Wield are lacking. I appreciate the comprehension that if you are melee has to pull off, because of melee damage, therefore for the greater risk melee deserves a greater reward.
As a recommendation, increasing the damage of melee is great, but the increase of duration from 10 seconds to 14 seconds (standardization), would cause the use of Two-Handers to increase as back bar weapons. This due to the fact that the 10 second time factor breaks up rotations (Venomous Claw, Noxious Breath, Trap Beast are over 10s) and decreases up time on Weapon/Spell Damage enchant.
Thanks for paying attention. I hope this is helpful in future developments.
Sincerely Your Sword-Singing Tank,
-Target
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Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tbf, that depends on your actual setup. 10 seconds is quite fine for almost all of my DPS characters.
I do agree an additional long duration option would be great for tanks and some outliers though, but things being what they are, I take what I can get.1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Afaik dw backbar is already meta for stam dps only love, with brp dw, and in many cases slightly more dmg than vma now.
As for 2h, most of its bonuses don't translate over to a frontbar, and barswapping after a gap closer can often fail or incredibly slow.
I dunno why stampede was chosen to be buffed, when carve bleed should've been the target to make 2h backbar more popular imho.
Using a gap closer in pve just feels weird.1 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭been using maelstrom 2h backbared on my fun aoe taunt tormentor repentance tank for a year or so.
duration of bleed with it is 15s I believe.
As every tick of stampede refreshes merciless charge dot.Edited by remosito on May 11, 2021 5:58AMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Afaik dw backbar is already meta for stam dps only love, with brp dw, and in many cases slightly more dmg than vma now.
As for 2h, most of its bonuses don't translate over to a frontbar, and barswapping after a gap closer can often fail or incredibly slow.
I dunno why stampede was chosen to be buffed, when carve bleed should've been the target to make 2h backbar more popular imho.
Using a gap closer in pve just feels weird.
Doesn't feel wierd to me.. feels more right than DW as a back bar aoe dot imo. A part of the crappy part about a melee/melee builds is that you have no way to attack from range like melee/bow. Stampede solves that issue to some degree by allowing you to close the distance to your target much faster than sprinting to your enemy. 2H also allows you to get a full enchant power like bows or staves.
On the off chance you need an aoe spammable, Stampede can serve that purpose which is very nice for some builds I'm sure, since it sometimes hurts your build to unslot something for an aoe spammable, lowering your single target dps.. Blade Cloak and Volley don't have that multifunctional utility to them.. although I think the balance overall is there.
2H Stampede = aoe dot + gapcloser + aoe spammable + can be stepped out of
DW Blade Cloak = aoe dot + defensive buff (20% aoe damage reduction) + mobile with user (great for stam sorcs using hurricane, etc)
Bow Volley = aoe dot + ranged weapon + can be stepped out of
Each weapon has a unique playstyle supporting the weapon they come from, thats interesting to me.
Now.. why is stampede the go to backbar skill for 2H over Carve? Simple.. enchants do not proc from single target applied dots, Carve is aoe, but it applies single target dots. The only way to get away from those dots is a purge. The skills the proc enchants, are aoe dots, they're not applied, they can be avoided.
There was 1 patch where they did allow applied dots to proc enchants and it was quickly reverted as it destroyed pvp. People would pair Master DW + 2x infused damage procs. They would use Rending Slashes on 1 target, the target would then take damage from the 2 enchants every 2s lining up with the dot and if they had no purge it was a death sentence. To some degree.. this effect has creeped back in with the Way of Fire set + Master DW, but you can't have those enchants proccing off CD without gluing to your target with Blade Cloak to do that or the other paralel options that you can just walk out of.
Things are different now.. DW enchants do half damage so maybe ZOS should reavalute that choice and skills like Twin Slashes, Poison Injection, Carve and Reach could be used as back bar enchant proccing skills... however, I don't think ZOS agrees with 1 skill proccing 10seconds of enchants.
The point is, the system in how it's built now supports counterplay, fire and forget dots proccing enchants from your back bar do not when only 3/6 classes have easily accessible purges. Way of Fire is strong, but imagine that came from a 2piece set (infused enchant), did much more damage AND could crit. Thats the issue.Edited by MashmalloMan on May 11, 2021 5:59AMPC Beta - 1900+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit1 -
jecks33✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stampede spammers in Cyrodiil are very very happy. My mag toon is sadder than yesterday.PC-EU4 -
ke.sardenb14_ESO✭✭✭Excited for this for sure, always cool when new things become more viable.
.......
But why is merciless charge only 5 seconds?0 -
honey_badger82✭✭✭✭I have been using stampede as my gap closer for my templar tank for well over a year now. This is the one good change I see this update. On my front bar I already have 2 damage shield abilities (defensive stance is now a must for stamina tanks for its passives) so a 3rd for gap closer was is completely unnecessary and the other morph is useless in PvE.0
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Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »Excited for this for sure, always cool when new things become more viable.
.......
But why is merciless charge only 5 seconds?
It refreshes with every tick of the stampede ground dot.
It's not as potent on pts after the nerf, but on live it's one of the highest overall dmg procs due to near 100% uptime.1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It seems really strange that ZOS nerfs an arena weapon, supposedly one of the aspirational weapons, something players consider an achievement, and then turns around and buffs a generic weapon skill to make up the damage lost to the nerf.
And says so in the dev notes!
I guess thats raising the floor....entry level blue food should be better than purple/gold food. Generic skills should be better than end game gear. And so on.Edited by katorga on May 11, 2021 2:16PM6 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It seems really strange that ZOS nerfs an arena weapon, supposedly one of the aspirational weapons, something players consider an achievement, and then turns around and buffs a generic weapon skill to make up the damage lost to the nerf.
And says so in the dev notes!
I guess thats raising the floor....entry level blue food should be better than purple/gold food. Generic skills should be better than end game gear. And so on.
Hey people can't complain anymore the damage is coming from the "skill" it will be skillful gameplay spamming gapcloser now!0 -
kalunte✭✭✭✭✭Increased the damage done by the initial hit of this ability by 25%, and the damage of the Damage over Time effect by approximately 127%
best adjustment ever, so now it does 25% more base dmg on top of being AoE, + a dot + gapcloser. very happy of such a change.
they could have just buffed the Dot part so that there is still a reason to use crit rush...
meanwhile all single target gapcloser/gapcreators that are single target will just do less than that, that's simply awesome. as for the range of the destro staff knockback.. well, another thing to be considered in 2 or 3years, alongside the delayed ambush...0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Increased the damage done by the initial hit of this ability by 25%, and the damage of the Damage over Time effect by approximately 127%
best adjustment ever, so now it does 25% more base dmg on top of being AoE, + a dot + gapcloser. very happy of such a change.
they could have just buffed the Dot part so that there is still a reason to use crit rush...
meanwhile all single target gapcloser/gapcreators that are single target will just do less than that, that's simply awesome. as for the range of the destro staff knockback.. well, another thing to be considered in 2 or 3years, alongside the delayed ambush...
Yeah I don't get the hit dmg increase either. Basically more dmg than crit rush, and its aoe and a dot? Hello?!? @ZOS_BrianWheeler1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »@Firstmep
Thanks I genuinely did not know that
Yeah it's just one of those things, I often check dmg reports for fights and it used to surprise me how high the overall dmg of the wpn was despite the actual dot ticks not being that strong.0
