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Bastian showcase and ingame dialogue messes up King Emerics timeline, and breaks lore.

Thevampirenight
Thevampirenight
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According to the Lore, Emeric does not become King until 563ish, in game Bastian says King Emeric, dissolved his family when he was two years old(Still looking into that as I was told the dialogue said something like 2 years old but it could have been just toddler anyways it doesn't matter)) He was a toddler going by one screenshot someone showed me. The new Bastian Article mentions Bastian is 30 years old . Emeric wrote when he became King of Wayrest directly and that year was 563 to be exact, so it can't be any sooner then 563. I did the math on this, Emeric became King in 563, then game stuff all happens in 482. That means Emeric was king for 19 years. Bastian is 30 years old. 30-19=11. So Bastian has to have been 10/11 years old when Emeric dissolved his noble family it couldn't be any sooner then that. It would be impossible for Bastian to be two years old, when these events happened, given Bastians official age.

Hence why I've brought up this thread, as this is a very big deal, as it breaks the timeline way to much. So this I do feel does need to be addressed somehow. Either Bastians official age needs to be adjusted or his in game dialogue need to be adjusted to fit the lore of when Emeric became King. Because this is in fact pretty lore breaking, with it being in its current state, and given Emeric basically wrote the book that mentions the exact year he became King. This can't be explained away by Authors mistake, as that Author was Emeric himself.

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Edited by Thevampirenight on April 28, 2021 10:27PM
PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Cellentel
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    Dragon break?
  • TheNuminous1
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    You never know if the in-game authors suffer from dementia or not. This is still canon.
  • Thevampirenight
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    You never know if the in-game authors suffer from dementia or not. This is still canon.

    King Emeric doesn't have dementia, and seems to be in good mental health I believe. He did go through a lot of mental trauma though in the Dc storyline but that is understandable. So I consider it very unlikely, and he clearly would know when he became King, and I doubt he would get that wrong.
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • TheNuminous1
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    You never know if the in-game authors suffer from dementia or not. This is still canon.

    King Emeric doesn't have dementia, and seems to be in good mental health I believe. He did go through a lot of mental trauma though in the Dc storyline but that is understandable. So I consider it very unlikely, and he clearly would know when he became King, and I doubt he would get that wrong.

    Iunno man we let alot of old dudes lead when clearly their mental status says they should be in a nursing home.
  • Tethilia
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    Good find, This absolutely needs to be fixed.
  • Ratzkifal
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    Maybe "toddler" is an exaggeration by Bastian. He was a child, not a teen yet and not a toddler anymore, but he was still young and didn't understand politics and stuff enough that he may as well could have been a toddler at the time - not an actual toddler, a metaphorical toddler. xD
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • SeaGtGruff
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    Maybe it was before now-King Emeric became King, when he was still just future-King Emeric?
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • Moonsprite
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    I’m confused. I know I’m newer to the game and don’t know all the lore, but I didn’t think imperials served the Breton king? Is Bastian Breton or Imperial?
  • VaranisArano
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    Moonsprite wrote: »
    I’m confused. I know I’m newer to the game and don’t know all the lore, but I didn’t think imperials served the Breton king? Is Bastian Breton or Imperial?

    Imperials who fled their war-torn homeland can end up serving a variety of rulers.
  • Gundug
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    Are we 100% certain that all game events happen in the same year? The player loses their soul, meets the companions, stops Molag Bal and saves Coldharbour, saves the lands of the three alliances, saves Craglorn and all of Nirn, saves Orsinium, saves Vvardenfell, saves Clockwork City, saves Summerset, saves Western Skyrim and is on the way to save Blackwood. The game has been out for almost seven years now. 11 - 7 = 4.
  • BejaProphet
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    Emeric didn’t go from orphan to king. He had power before the crown. Further, it would be very normal to call somebody by their current political title even when speaking of actions taken before gaining that title.
  • VaranisArano
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    Gundug wrote: »
    Are we 100% certain that all game events happen in the same year? The player loses their soul, meets the companions, stops Molag Bal and saves Coldharbour, saves the lands of the three alliances, saves Craglorn and all of Nirn, saves Orsinium, saves Vvardenfell, saves Clockwork City, saves Summerset, saves Western Skyrim and is on the way to save Blackwood. The game has been out for almost seven years now. 11 - 7 = 4.

    Yes, we're sure. According to ZOS Loremaster Leamon Tuttle:

    "So, time in-game is personal to you. Given that multiple players can play content in any order, we've resisted the push to advance to 2E 583. For that reason, we assume that all events of ESO take place in 2E 582."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/comment/epwvu1a?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

    "And yeah, we edited the body text of "Birds of Wrothgar" to reduce confusion on this point. I think there are good arguments both for and against, but remaining in 582 is the current deign decision."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/e84ule/comment/fab3gep?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


    In other words, you can roleplay the passage of time if you like, but ESO is going to continue to present content as if it is all happening in the same year. That's the current design decision, which has clearly continued as seen in the stated chronology with Emperor Leovic's reign.
    Edited by VaranisArano on April 29, 2021 2:50AM
  • Thevampirenight
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    Gundug wrote: »
    Are we 100% certain that all game events happen in the same year? The player loses their soul, meets the companions, stops Molag Bal and saves Coldharbour, saves the lands of the three alliances, saves Craglorn and all of Nirn, saves Orsinium, saves Vvardenfell, saves Clockwork City, saves Summerset, saves Western Skyrim and is on the way to save Blackwood. The game has been out for almost seven years now. 11 - 7 = 4.

    Yes, we're sure. According to ZOS Loremaster Leamon Tuttle:

    "So, time in-game is personal to you. Given that multiple players can play content in any order, we've resisted the push to advance to 2E 583. For that reason, we assume that all events of ESO take place in 2E 582."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/comment/epwvu1a?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

    "And yeah, we edited the body text of "Birds of Wrothgar" to reduce confusion on this point. I think there are good arguments both for and against, but remaining in 582 is the current deign decision."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/e84ule/comment/fab3gep?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


    In other words, you can roleplay the passage of time if you like, but ESO is going to continue to present content as if it is all happening in the same year. That's the current design decision, which has clearly continued as seen in the stated chronology with Emperor Leovic's reign.

    I'd honestly prefer if they made it so content isn't all in one year but it is what it is.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on April 29, 2021 9:49PM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Jaimeh
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    Maybe @ZOS_LeamonTuttle could have a look into this... (also, OP, I think you meant to write 582 and not 482 in your first post).
  • phantasmalD
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    Gundug wrote: »
    Are we 100% certain that all game events happen in the same year? The player loses their soul, meets the companions, stops Molag Bal and saves Coldharbour, saves the lands of the three alliances, saves Craglorn and all of Nirn, saves Orsinium, saves Vvardenfell, saves Clockwork City, saves Summerset, saves Western Skyrim and is on the way to save Blackwood. The game has been out for almost seven years now. 11 - 7 = 4.

    Yes, we're sure. According to ZOS Loremaster Leamon Tuttle:

    "So, time in-game is personal to you. Given that multiple players can play content in any order, we've resisted the push to advance to 2E 583. For that reason, we assume that all events of ESO take place in 2E 582."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/comment/epwvu1a?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

    "And yeah, we edited the body text of "Birds of Wrothgar" to reduce confusion on this point. I think there are good arguments both for and against, but remaining in 582 is the current deign decision."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/e84ule/comment/fab3gep?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


    In other words, you can roleplay the passage of time if you like, but ESO is going to continue to present content as if it is all happening in the same year. That's the current design decision, which has clearly continued as seen in the stated chronology with Emperor Leovic's reign.

    They say they want to keep everything in 582 with no clear chronology but then do things like bring back Abnur Tharn in Elsweyr and give his story a definitive end (?) or allow Sai Sahan to finish his personal spiritsword quest in Markarth.
    All of which cannot possibly take place before the MQ, like Abnur is at least 10 years older in Elsweyr and Sai being unable to use Shehai was a minor part of his character during the MQ.

    I wish they would drop the pretence that stories can happen in any order, it only hurts the game.
  • Moonsprite
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    It’s confusing to figure out where you should go first. I had to google where to go to start the soul quest lines. I started in the VVardenfell (sp?) area because I only had the base game plus morrowind. Then I bought the new expansion and started a new character and started in Skyrim. It was really confusing.

    I like to play things in order and it seems like the cold harbour questlines and the main alliance quests should be first? I’m still doing the AD quest line. I stopped for now because I’m waiting for companions. I find the lore/timelines so confusing, but it could also be because this is my first Elder Scrolls game ever.
  • Danikat
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    I wish they'd stop trying to set everything in the same year and just stick with actual continuity. I don't think they need to restrict what players can do because my experience is that people who don't care about doing things in the right order also don't care if they see references to past events before playing those events.

    My other MMO is Guild Wars 2, which is similar to ESO in that it gives you the freedom to do things in almost any order. There are level restrictions on most of the base game maps, but you're free to play on any of the ones at or below (or just above) your level, and once you reach the maximum level you can do anything in any order, including jumping straight into the latest release without doing any of the previous stuff.

    But the storyline still has a fixed continuity. It started in 1325 AE and the latest release is 1334AE so it's progressing in roughly real time and newer releases will reference older ones, characters get older as time goes on, people change jobs or move away or die etc.

    If it's important to someone that their character does everything in order then they'll make sure to do that, if not then they likely aren't worried about the story or order of events.
    Moonsprite wrote: »
    It’s confusing to figure out where you should go first. I had to google where to go to start the soul quest lines. I started in the VVardenfell (sp?) area because I only had the base game plus morrowind. Then I bought the new expansion and started a new character and started in Skyrim. It was really confusing.

    I like to play things in order and it seems like the cold harbour questlines and the main alliance quests should be first? I’m still doing the AD quest line. I stopped for now because I’m waiting for companions. I find the lore/timelines so confusing, but it could also be because this is my first Elder Scrolls game ever.

    Elder Scrolls lore is confusing. It's got a lot of detail compared to many video game settings and is more willing to reference any/all of it. (For example the lore for the Forgotten Realms DnD setting is probably similar, but most of it doesn't come up in any given game.)

    Elder Scrolls lore also makes frequent use of in-game sources and unreliable narrators rather than the 'word of god' format of the writers simply saying "this is how it is". Even lore articles on the ESO website are often written from an in-universe perspective and may reflect that writer's personal biases and experience, so information from different sources can be contradictory because it's written from the perspective of characters who don't know everything about the subject.

    Having said that the timeline of events in ESO has some complications which definitely come from game design choices and other real-world issues rather than writing choices. The way quests and storylines are written there is a definite intended order to the events, but the game is designed to allow you to play anything in any order so they have to accommodate that, and the end result is stories which can be confusing, especially if you do them in the 'wrong' order, and it's hard to avoid that because the game dropped you into the latest chapter you own.

    Thankfully they're changing that last bit now so it will be possible to start at the beginning (although still more complicated than it should be), but trying to set everything in the same year whilst also including some continuity and references to past events is going to continue to be confusing.
    PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    "Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
  • Malthorne
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    Gundug wrote: »
    Are we 100% certain that all game events happen in the same year? The player loses their soul, meets the companions, stops Molag Bal and saves Coldharbour, saves the lands of the three alliances, saves Craglorn and all of Nirn, saves Orsinium, saves Vvardenfell, saves Clockwork City, saves Summerset, saves Western Skyrim and is on the way to save Blackwood. The game has been out for almost seven years now. 11 - 7 = 4.

    Yes, we're sure. According to ZOS Loremaster Leamon Tuttle:

    "So, time in-game is personal to you. Given that multiple players can play content in any order, we've resisted the push to advance to 2E 583. For that reason, we assume that all events of ESO take place in 2E 582."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bwdb0r/comment/epwvu1a?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

    "And yeah, we edited the body text of "Birds of Wrothgar" to reduce confusion on this point. I think there are good arguments both for and against, but remaining in 582 is the current deign decision."
    https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/e84ule/comment/fab3gep?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3


    In other words, you can roleplay the passage of time if you like, but ESO is going to continue to present content as if it is all happening in the same year. That's the current design decision, which has clearly continued as seen in the stated chronology with Emperor Leovic's reign.

    Even the lore is being shaped for the convenience of new players? How many times can the world be threatened and saved in only one year?
  • Fennwitty
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    Maybe if you keep gaining rapport with Bastian he reveals he's actually a time traveler :smile:
    PC NA
  • tsaescishoeshiner
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    Danikat wrote: »
    I wish they'd stop trying to set everything in the same year and just stick with actual continuity. I don't think they need to restrict what players can do because my experience is that people who don't care about doing things in the right order also don't care if they see references to past events before playing those events.

    My other MMO is Guild Wars 2, which is similar to ESO in that it gives you the freedom to do things in almost any order. There are level restrictions on most of the base game maps, but you're free to play on any of the ones at or below (or just above) your level, and once you reach the maximum level you can do anything in any order, including jumping straight into the latest release without doing any of the previous stuff.

    But the storyline still has a fixed continuity. It started in 1325 AE and the latest release is 1334AE so it's progressing in roughly real time and newer releases will reference older ones, characters get older as time goes on, people change jobs or move away or die etc.

    To add context to this: in GW2 the zones are leveled and the story is linear. You can't do things in any order, but there is more character development, and the quests are far more cinematic. To me, it feels like playing through a young adult/middle reader novel.

    I played one of the newest expansion storylines without playing the older ones, and I didn't know who anyone was. I still liked it, but the story is building on like years and years of character development and plots. In fact, the START of the endgame storyline (Lion's Arch) was unplayable for years, only being brought back recently. So any new player had no chance to get the story because they missed limited-time "living story" quests. from like 8 years ago or whatever.

    I'm not saying ESO handles it all better, because each approach has ups and downs. GW2 also has a different release schedule—you get occasional story updates with new zones and achievements and currencies in between much larger and much more infrequent expansions.
    PC-NA
    in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner
  • Thevampirenight
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    I still hope they will fix this, somehow, because I do think its very important.
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Ekzorka
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    Gundug wrote: »
    Are we 100% certain that all game events happen in the same year?
    Yeah, it's official and it's a super stupid for a story-orientated project. The Vestige could be more than one, but who is cloning a NPCs?
    I'm really sorry to those people who will work on TES VI and try to explain all this one-year chaos in the Second Era...
    Edited by Ekzorka on May 11, 2021 8:11AM
  • KeiRaikon
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    Ekzorka wrote: »
    I'm really sorry to those people who will work on TES VI and try to explain all this one-year chaos in the Second Era...

    Isn't the whole reason they chose the 2nd Era interregnum due to the fact that all history and memory of it gets erased/forgotten that way it wouldn't cause issues with the mainline games.
    Edited by KeiRaikon on May 12, 2021 5:53AM
  • Ekzorka
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    KeiRaikon wrote: »
    Isn't the whole reason they chose the 2nd Era interregnum due to the fact that all history and memory of it gets erased/forgotten that way it wouldn't cause issues with the mainline games.
    Well, when I read about it long time ago this was presented as a good base for the project implementation which wouldn't interfere with the singles development and a mostly unknown events of 2 Era will not dictate a certain scenario. Considering that the events take place long before any previous game in the series, it's obvious that all this not mentioned, but it can't be ignored in the next project. If the local people can remember the Knahaten Flu which starts 22 years before Planemeld and everything else, why they can't remember Daedra invasions, Dragons and Three Banners War?
  • VaranisArano
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    Ekzorka wrote: »
    KeiRaikon wrote: »
    Isn't the whole reason they chose the 2nd Era interregnum due to the fact that all history and memory of it gets erased/forgotten that way it wouldn't cause issues with the mainline games.
    Well, when I read about it long time ago this was presented as a good base for the project implementation which wouldn't interfere with the singles development and a mostly unknown events of 2 Era will not dictate a certain scenario. Considering that the events take place long before any previous game in the series, it's obvious that all this not mentioned, but it can't be ignored in the next project. If the local people can remember the Knahaten Flu which starts 22 years before Planemeld and everything else, why they can't remember Daedra invasions, Dragons and Three Banners War?

    In one sense, it's important to remember that there is 200+ years between ESO and the next period of long-term stability under Tiber Septim. The average person is far too busy dealing with local crisises to worry about the bigger picture. Nor does Tiber Septim have any reason to care about the history before he conquered everything.

    There are long-lived individuals and institutions who should remember. But so far, they don't have any reason to go out of their way to make sure this stuff is remembered.

    The Tribunal? It's pretty embarrassing to admit you needed to help of a mortal champion because your enemies came close to stealing your powers.

    The Psijic Order and the College of Sapiarchs? Again, you're supposed to be the cream of Summerset's crop and yet you can't defend the island without sn outsider's help.

    Divayth Fyr? Like most Telvanni, he's pretty isolationist and prone to sharing info when it suits him.

    The Daedric Princes? Well, they generally come off the worse for wear vs the Vestige. I can't imagine Molag Bal or Nocturnal being super interested in publicizing their defeat by the Vestige, centuries later.

    My suspicion is that not only is Tamriel facing 200+ years of chaos followed by an Emperor who's more interested in establishing his own reign, but that most of the important people who would remember and record the history of ESO would, ah, prefer that it be forgotten.
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