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Trial Dummy stats real?
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DawnsLight65✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Reasons for low dps are usually down to a couple factors:- overcasting or undercasting DOTs and buffs
- not light attack weaving
- missing important buffs like major brutality or major savagery
In terms of gear you wear Kinras and Selene, what is the other 5 piece set you're using?
I would install Action Duration Reminder if you're on PC to track your DOTs and buffs better.
And do a couple parses on the 3m dummy with Combat Metrics installed and post it here.
Keep in mind the 21m dummy is fully debuffed and doesnt have any resist, the 3m dummy has no debuffs and 18.2k resist so your dps will be a lot lower as a result.
With a little practice 30k on the 3m dummy is pretty easy to obtain but you first need to find out what you're doing wrong.
Briarheart is my weapon/jewelry set.Ra'avi Ahjonihr Khajit Stamblade, Level 1500Master ThiefCrafter and ExplorerHero of the Dominion, Pact, and CovenantMember of the DragonguardFriend to Razum-darFavored of Azura'It does not matter to M'aiq how strong or smart one is. It only matters what one can do.' -M'aiq the Liar0 -
Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭DawnsLight65 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
Are you sure you're parsing on the 21m dummy and are you going from 100% HP to 0%? The dummies also test your sustain, your sustain might not be tested in normal dungeons since bosses die really quickly and you probably have buffs and debuffs provided by the tank/healer.
I have the trial atronach. And I can see that, except that I take down 100K bosses in less than a minute when I solo, which would not have the debuffing from others, hence my confusion. Did not test sustain.
A 100k "boss" should drop in 1-3 seconds depending on crit...
At 11k I'm sorry to say you probably aren't doing anything right.
I would advise you to look towards skinny cheeks.
They will have posted rotations, cp and gear set ups for each class.
Try to watch and understand what they do and why this should be an easy way to determine what you are doing wrong.
None are really updated for the new Flames of Ambition/CP setup for dual wield/bow. I am now working with several people to find out what I am doing wrong cause its obvious I am doing something very wrong. Adding to my confusion is I was doing 19K DPS on dummy (not trial) prior to CP shakeup at a much lower CP.
But on ps4 you have advanced statistics?
So you can tell us how much you have unbuffed/buffed dmg, penetration & crit chance/dmg plus level of main resource (magicka/stamina).
And what dummy exactly you are using, because except trial dummies, they are also veteran & normal.0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DawnsLight65 wrote: »Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »[quote="DawnsLight65;c-7250357"
A 100k "boss" should drop in 1-3 seconds depending on crit...
At 11k I'm sorry to say you probably aren't doing anything right.
I would advise you to look towards skinny cheeks.
They will have posted rotations, cp and gear set ups for each class.
Try to watch and understand what they do and why this should be an easy way to determine what you are doing wrong.
I use skinny cheeks. I do the rotation. I have gold Kinras rage and Selene's Monster Set divines. I have bloodthirsty jewelry and gold weapons are precise. My mundus is the Shadow. I am CP720.
See why I am confused?
Are you on PC? If so, try parsing again with the combat metrics add-on and show us a screenshot of the combat metrics damage and info page.
ps4. sorry.
With the Blackwood chapter ZOS will add an ability timer (similar to Action Duration Reminder) so anyone can keep track of the skill durations. 19k on the 3m dummy is not a bad starting point, once you get the hang of your rotation it will quickly rise to 30-35k.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer2 -
Gundug✭✭✭✭✭It’s been discussed a little, but a 100k health boss is just a tiny step above the regular trash mobs you encounter in overland. That has to be one of the silly quest “bosses”, since real boss enemies have health measured in millions. I have poorly optimized setups for harvesting and such that will pull off 30k DPS solo against weak overland enemies like that. That’s just 4 seconds to kill.
If you are genuinely pulling 10-20k DPS on the trial dummy with a fully realized build, and it’s not just a matter of misreading numbers or something, then I suggest taking a careful look at your rotation, ensuring you are keeping up a good rhythm of light attacks and skills, avoiding overcasting damage over time skills, and maintaining buffs. More than anything, a sloppy rotation means huge damage and efficiency losses.1 -
xv1_me✭✭✭DawnsLight65 wrote: »Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
Are you sure you're parsing on the 21m dummy and are you going from 100% HP to 0%? The dummies also test your sustain, your sustain might not be tested in normal dungeons since bosses die really quickly and you probably have buffs and debuffs provided by the tank/healer.
I have the trial atronach. And I can see that, except that I take down 100K bosses in less than a minute when I solo, which would not have the debuffing from others, hence my confusion. Did not test sustain.
you do 65k dps you say, then it takes almost a minute to kill a 100k boss?
wait, 100k bosses exist?0 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
I feel the EXACT same way, but I do find the dummy is good for testing my builds against themselves - i.e., to see if adding a different skill yields more or less DPS.
What I have found with CHampion Points 2.0 is that I need to be smart about my positioning when fighting a trial dummy, as I put in the perk that gives you more crit damage when you are flanking. Pre-Champion Points 2.0, I was hitting around 50k DPS on my magcro without having perfected my rotation (I main support), but post-patch, I was only hitting ~25k. DPS drop should not have been that much, but it dawned on me that I didn't have two key skills that I had slotted up before, and that I wasn't standing where the flanking bonuses kicked in. With those bonuses in place, my parse was the same as it was under the old system.1 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
I feel the EXACT same way, but I do find the dummy is good for testing my builds against themselves - i.e., to see if adding a different skill yields more or less DPS.
What I have found with CHampion Points 2.0 is that I need to be smart about my positioning when fighting a trial dummy, as I put in the perk that gives you more crit damage when you are flanking. Pre-Champion Points 2.0, I was hitting around 50k DPS on my magcro without having perfected my rotation (I main support), but post-patch, I was only hitting ~25k. DPS drop should not have been that much, but it dawned on me that I didn't have two key skills that I had slotted up before, and that I wasn't standing where the flanking bonuses kicked in. With those bonuses in place, my parse was the same as it was under the old system.
Yup, dummies create a controlled environment which enable you to properly compared complete builds, skills, rotations, gear, etc against each other. Otherwise, you're just kinda guessing how you're doing, but never really know. It's not an accurate representation of how well you will do in a dungeon or trial, but it is a way to benchmark yourself. Much like dyno testing your car....you're never going to hit that HP in the street, but it's nice to see where your ceiling is.1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nobody uses DPM, we use DPS (damage per second). So does the game when it pops up your DPS in chat following a dummy fight.trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
Sorry, but that is absolutely terrible advice. There is nothing inaccurate about a dummy, you just need to know the parameters of your testing environment. In fact, nothing is more accurate or consistent in terms of measuring a damage dealers protentional in a proper group setting than a trial dummy. Is it going to be perfectly repatable in all content? Of course not. Some fights you will pull more, some you will pull less, depending on the mechanics of said fight. On a static fight, a good raid can put you ahead of your best dummy parse. In 4 man content on a fight with a lot of movement, you should expect your damage to be a lot less, etc.
To the OP: What you are seeing first hand is that this game really doesn't do much to prepare you for veteran content. 100k mobs can be killed quickly in a lot of ways that dont require any semblance of an actual damage rotation. If you want to be able to put out sustained DPS (we have bosses with 100 million + health in this game), a dummy is both the best metric to access your damage potential and far and away the best tool to practice your damage rotation.
Do you need to beat on a dummy to clear most things on normal? Nope. But I will tell you that anyone that doesnt is going to hit a wall at some point in terms of the content they clear. If you are interested in Vet HMs, trial leaderboards, etc, you are going to want to spend some time on a dummy.5 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Nobody uses DPM, we use DPS (damage per second). So does the game when it pops up your DPS in chat following a dummy fight.trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
Sorry, but that is absolutely terrible advice. There is nothing inaccurate about a dummy, you just need to know the parameters of your testing environment. In fact, nothing is more accurate or consistent in terms of measuring a damage dealers protentional in a proper group setting than a trial dummy. Is it going to be perfectly repatable in all content? Of course not. Some fights you will pull more, some you will pull less, depending on the mechanics of said fight. On a static fight, a good raid can put you ahead of your best dummy parse. In 4 man content on a fight with a lot of movement, you should expect your damage to be a lot less, etc.
To the OP: What you are seeing first hand is that this game really doesn't do much to prepare you for veteran content. 100k mobs can be killed quickly in a lot of ways that dont require any semblance of an actual damage rotation. If you want to be able to put out sustained DPS (we have bosses with 100 million + health in this game), a dummy is both the best metric to access your damage potential and far and away the best tool to practice your damage rotation.
Do you need to beat on a dummy to clear most things on normal? Nope. But I will tell you that anyone that doesnt is going to hit a wall at some point in terms of the content they clear. If you are interested in Vet HMs, trial leaderboards, etc, you are going to want to spend some time on a dummy.
Yeah I don't know why people are so afraid of it, or why they have a problem with parsing on a dummy. It doesn't hurt you, it helps you. If this were an FPS, it would be the equivalent as running Aim Labs/A DM server/ Aim Training/ Etc. You can use it simply as a warmup before you try difficult content, or keep track of your progress with actual reliable data, and a measurement you can give to others so they can rank you accordingly.
I think the root cause is that the moment you have a number attached to your or your performance, people are going to judge it, and now they're tied to this number. And I understand that fear, but the good news is that even if that is the case, you can always change that number. You can improve, if you really want to. At the end of the day, people will judge you regardless, so why not always try to do the best you can.3 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
So you're saying that the 4800 crowns that ZOS charges for it is not worth it?
Console shows you DPS. That’s it. And usually it’s inaccurate. Often top console players who tell you their DPS stats are actually just running stuff on their PC accounts where they get data from.
$50 US for a combat dummy that’s inaccurate and doesn’t have parity with PC sure doesn’t seem worth it.0 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Suna_Ye_Sunnabe wrote: »I would highly recommend you practice on the 3 mil test dummy until you reach at least 40k on that (which is 70K+ on 21 mil). You're wasting your time on the 21 mil until then, imo, and you'll learn your class much better on the 3 mil first.
^^^ This is very good advice. Start with the 3mil dummy first until you get some decent dps, move on to the 6mil to make sure you have sustain in your rotation, then move on to the raid dummy.
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Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Nobody uses DPM, we use DPS (damage per second). So does the game when it pops up your DPS in chat following a dummy fight.trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
Sorry, but that is absolutely terrible advice. There is nothing inaccurate about a dummy, you just need to know the parameters of your testing environment. In fact, nothing is more accurate or consistent in terms of measuring a damage dealers protentional in a proper group setting than a trial dummy. Is it going to be perfectly repatable in all content? Of course not. Some fights you will pull more, some you will pull less, depending on the mechanics of said fight. On a static fight, a good raid can put you ahead of your best dummy parse. In 4 man content on a fight with a lot of movement, you should expect your damage to be a lot less, etc.
To the OP: What you are seeing first hand is that this game really doesn't do much to prepare you for veteran content. 100k mobs can be killed quickly in a lot of ways that dont require any semblance of an actual damage rotation. If you want to be able to put out sustained DPS (we have bosses with 100 million + health in this game), a dummy is both the best metric to access your damage potential and far and away the best tool to practice your damage rotation.
Do you need to beat on a dummy to clear most things on normal? Nope. But I will tell you that anyone that doesnt is going to hit a wall at some point in terms of the content they clear. If you are interested in Vet HMs, trial leaderboards, etc, you are going to want to spend some time on a dummy.
Yeah I don't know why people are so afraid of it, or why they have a problem with parsing on a dummy. It doesn't hurt you, it helps you. If this were an FPS, it would be the equivalent as running Aim Labs/A DM server/ Aim Training/ Etc. You can use it simply as a warmup before you try difficult content, or keep track of your progress with actual reliable data, and a measurement you can give to others so they can rank you accordingly.
I think the root cause is that the moment you have a number attached to your or your performance, people are going to judge it, and now they're tied to this number. And I understand that fear, but the good news is that even if that is the case, you can always change that number. You can improve, if you really want to. At the end of the day, people will judge you regardless, so why not always try to do the best you can.
Bingo. People that attack trial dummies are, at least in my experience, typically those that have tried a handful of times, got numbers way lower than they were expecting, and decide that attacking the process is easier than improving. People are afraid of failure, or what they perceive as failure anyways...
People also refuse to acknowledge that DPS in this game comes down to rotation, which at the end of the day, boils down to player skill. They copy a build, get gear, spend money to make it gold, etc., and think they are most of the way there, but nothing could be further from the truth. DPS is a game of skill in ESO, and like any skill, it can be improved through practice. Dummies are far and way the most efficient practice tool we have.
If you don't care about end game PVE, then you dont need to touch one. If you do, you are foolish to ignore their benefits.
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SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »If you don't care about end game PVE, then you dont need to touch one.
I don't care about end-game PvE and yet i am using the dummies to improve myself.
My "end-game" is to solo group content, so for me the 6mil dummy is my goto since i will not have any buffs/debuffs other than what i can cast/apply when running solo.
My point being, dummies are useful for more than just the typical end-game player.
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Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Nobody uses DPM, we use DPS (damage per second). So does the game when it pops up your DPS in chat following a dummy fight.trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
Sorry, but that is absolutely terrible advice. There is nothing inaccurate about a dummy, you just need to know the parameters of your testing environment. In fact, nothing is more accurate or consistent in terms of measuring a damage dealers protentional in a proper group setting than a trial dummy. Is it going to be perfectly repatable in all content? Of course not. Some fights you will pull more, some you will pull less, depending on the mechanics of said fight. On a static fight, a good raid can put you ahead of your best dummy parse. In 4 man content on a fight with a lot of movement, you should expect your damage to be a lot less, etc.
To the OP: What you are seeing first hand is that this game really doesn't do much to prepare you for veteran content. 100k mobs can be killed quickly in a lot of ways that dont require any semblance of an actual damage rotation. If you want to be able to put out sustained DPS (we have bosses with 100 million + health in this game), a dummy is both the best metric to access your damage potential and far and away the best tool to practice your damage rotation.
Do you need to beat on a dummy to clear most things on normal? Nope. But I will tell you that anyone that doesnt is going to hit a wall at some point in terms of the content they clear. If you are interested in Vet HMs, trial leaderboards, etc, you are going to want to spend some time on a dummy.
Yeah I don't know why people are so afraid of it, or why they have a problem with parsing on a dummy. It doesn't hurt you, it helps you. If this were an FPS, it would be the equivalent as running Aim Labs/A DM server/ Aim Training/ Etc. You can use it simply as a warmup before you try difficult content, or keep track of your progress with actual reliable data, and a measurement you can give to others so they can rank you accordingly.
I think the root cause is that the moment you have a number attached to your or your performance, people are going to judge it, and now they're tied to this number. And I understand that fear, but the good news is that even if that is the case, you can always change that number. You can improve, if you really want to. At the end of the day, people will judge you regardless, so why not always try to do the best you can.
Bingo. People that attack trial dummies are, at least in my experience, typically those that have tried a handful of times, got numbers way lower than they were expecting, and decide that attacking the process is easier than improving. People are afraid of failure, or what they perceive as failure anyways...
People also refuse to acknowledge that DPS in this game comes down to rotation, which at the end of the day, boils down to player skill. They copy a build, get gear, spend money to make it gold, etc., and think they are most of the way there, but nothing could be further from the truth. DPS is a game of skill in ESO, and like any skill, it can be improved through practice. Dummies are far and way the most efficient practice tool we have.
If you don't care about end game PVE, then you dont need to touch one. If you do, you are foolish to ignore their benefits.
I agree, you can either attack the process (no way I am way better, this meter must be broken), or you can attack the results (the meter is right, but I don't like how low my numbers are...let me investigate why they are lower than expected). Whichever of the two people choose is up to them, but only one of those choices will lead them on the path to improvement.2 -
Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »If you don't care about end game PVE, then you dont need to touch one.
I don't care about end-game PvE and yet i am using the dummies to improve myself.
My "end-game" is to solo group content, so for me the 6mil dummy is my goto since i will not have any buffs/debuffs other than what i can cast/apply when running solo.
My point being, dummies are useful for more than just the typical end-game player.
If you are going to soloing group content, then you could use weaker dummies, even Precursor, to test & improve your burst dmg, because in vet dung you will be maily avoiding boss attacks and using every second or two to make some impactful dmg.Edited by Ippokrates on May 11, 2021 5:19PM0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »If you don't care about end game PVE, then you dont need to touch one.
I don't care about end-game PvE and yet i am using the dummies to improve myself.
My "end-game" is to solo group content, so for me the 6mil dummy is my goto since i will not have any buffs/debuffs other than what i can cast/apply when running solo.
My point being, dummies are useful for more than just the typical end-game player.
I would consider soloing group content to be a version of end game PVE. My point was that if all you do is quest and maybe take on the occasional world boss with other players, you certainly don't need to ever use a dummy. Probably arguing over semantics at that point. Countless reason to use dummies. I even do it to practice and compare PVP burst combos. I dont really care about DPS at that point, but it can be helpful to look at total damage from the combo. I also use 3/6 mil dummies without any buffs for that purpose.
TLDR: Dummies are very useful across a broad range of content.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on May 11, 2021 6:02PM3 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
So you're saying that the 4800 crowns that ZOS charges for it is not worth it?
Console shows you DPS. That’s it. And usually it’s inaccurate. Often top console players who tell you their DPS stats are actually just running stuff on their PC accounts where they get data from.
$50 US for a combat dummy that’s inaccurate and doesn’t have parity with PC sure doesn’t seem worth it.
@trackdemon5512
What evidence do you have that those numbers are inaccurate? Is it simply because they are lower than you want them to be? Or perhaps because they are lower than you see on some trash pulls? There is nothing inaccurate about the numbers.
On PC, we get the exact same popup in chat that shows total DPS for the fight. We also have addons like combat metrics that shows more details about the parse as well as the total DPS, but I have never seen a meaningful discrepancy between the total DPS from the CMX report and the in-game chat DPS.
Only way those numbers are inaccurate is if you are not actually killing the dummy. If you just stip mid parse, the numbers will be lower than they likely would be.0 -
Odovacar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OP the stats are accurate. The best thing dummies are for aside from knowing your current DPS is to help perfect your skill rotation. You may be a vet but working on a new class and you don't have your bar setup the way you best feel comfortable ...queue up the dummy to get your muscle memory down. I've done this for all new classes until i can run my rotation fluidly. Then i progress through the 3,6, and 21 mill. Start with the 3 mill. GL OP!
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Lab3360✭✭✭✭✭tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
Problem is, having a hard time getting into some trials unless I present a dummy parse validating my DPS.
As it should be, honestly. It can be very draining to spend a 2-hour trial session with people who can't perform their roles, and it's work-intensive to evaluate DPS in content individually. 95% of what I learned from working on my dummy parse was relevant to improving in real combat. Making sure that people understand their gear, rotation, and light attack weaving lets the trial runs focus on teaching the content, not trying to explain light attack weaving while Z'maja is staring at you.
Taking down a 100k boss in under a minute only takes like 2k DPS. Not sure why you're seeing such a big disparity, as I would expect someone who can do vet DLC speedruns and hardmodes to get at least 45k on a *full* trial dummy parse if they've never parsed before, if not more, unless they run out of resources. There's also some parse-specific food that helps with your recovery.
Im on console...and I cant possibly tell you how overly casual console players are. Its become worse and worse over time to the point where even getting people from zone recruitment is no longer effective unless you want to explain the game to them1 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
So you're saying that the 4800 crowns that ZOS charges for it is not worth it?
Console shows you DPS. That’s it. And usually it’s inaccurate. Often top console players who tell you their DPS stats are actually just running stuff on their PC accounts where they get data from.
$50 US for a combat dummy that’s inaccurate and doesn’t have parity with PC sure doesn’t seem worth it.
@trackdemon5512
What evidence do you have that those numbers are inaccurate? Is it simply because they are lower than you want them to be? Or perhaps because they are lower than you see on some trash pulls? There is nothing inaccurate about the numbers.
On PC, we get the exact same popup in chat that shows total DPS for the fight. We also have addons like combat metrics that shows more details about the parse as well as the total DPS, but I have never seen a meaningful discrepancy between the total DPS from the CMX report and the in-game chat DPS.
Only way those numbers are inaccurate is if you are not actually killing the dummy. If you just stip mid parse, the numbers will be lower than they likely would be.
You get wildly different results on console trial dummies from rotation to rotation. It has been this way for years. Even on the small dummies it’s clear that the dummies just don’t register hits properly.
I’ll say it over and over again. PC experiences are worlds of a difference from Console. It’s fine that you can gain so much insight on PC (though usage of CMX if it’s not part of the analytics shows that ZOSs tracking of data for players is lacking) but on console dummy tests are essentially pointless aside advanced players trying to perfect their weave.
The straight developer implementation of combat dummies in this game is poor. If all the analytics from CMX and data logs was incorporated and displayed by the native UI it would be better. But on console you get none of that. That’s what the OP is experiencing.0 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DawnsLight65 wrote: »Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
Are you sure you're parsing on the 21m dummy and are you going from 100% HP to 0%? The dummies also test your sustain, your sustain might not be tested in normal dungeons since bosses die really quickly and you probably have buffs and debuffs provided by the tank/healer.
I have the trial atronach. And I can see that, except that I take down 100K bosses in less than a minute when I solo, which would not have the debuffing from others, hence my confusion. Did not test sustain.
I would suggest that a 100k target should provide significantly higher dps than the 21 mil target they were mentioning. Sustain is not much of an issue with only 100k.0 -
Hapexamendios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dummies are good for one thing imo: practicing rotations. I don't put any value in the numbers. Seen too many people brag about dummy numbers and spend over half the boss fights. They are some people who can pull really goid numbers and back it up, but they're a lot more of the former in my experience.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
So you're saying that the 4800 crowns that ZOS charges for it is not worth it?
Console shows you DPS. That’s it. And usually it’s inaccurate. Often top console players who tell you their DPS stats are actually just running stuff on their PC accounts where they get data from.
$50 US for a combat dummy that’s inaccurate and doesn’t have parity with PC sure doesn’t seem worth it.
@trackdemon5512
What evidence do you have that those numbers are inaccurate? Is it simply because they are lower than you want them to be? Or perhaps because they are lower than you see on some trash pulls? There is nothing inaccurate about the numbers.
On PC, we get the exact same popup in chat that shows total DPS for the fight. We also have addons like combat metrics that shows more details about the parse as well as the total DPS, but I have never seen a meaningful discrepancy between the total DPS from the CMX report and the in-game chat DPS.
Only way those numbers are inaccurate is if you are not actually killing the dummy. If you just stip mid parse, the numbers will be lower than they likely would be.
You get wildly different results on console trial dummies from rotation to rotation. It has been this way for years. Even on the small dummies it’s clear that the dummies just don’t register hits properly.
I’ll say it over and over again. PC experiences are worlds of a difference from Console. It’s fine that you can gain so much insight on PC (though usage of CMX if it’s not part of the analytics shows that ZOSs tracking of data for players is lacking) but on console dummy tests are essentially pointless aside advanced players trying to perfect their weave.
The straight developer implementation of combat dummies in this game is poor. If all the analytics from CMX and data logs was incorporated and displayed by the native UI it would be better. But on console you get none of that. That’s what the OP is experiencing.
That is not proof, that is conjecture. That is what happens when inexperienced people parse. They have a high standard deviation in their results because their rotations are inconsistent. Any links to threads on this topic? Youtube videos showing this in action? I simply don't believe it if I am being honest.2 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
So you're saying that the 4800 crowns that ZOS charges for it is not worth it?
Console shows you DPS. That’s it. And usually it’s inaccurate. Often top console players who tell you their DPS stats are actually just running stuff on their PC accounts where they get data from.
$50 US for a combat dummy that’s inaccurate and doesn’t have parity with PC sure doesn’t seem worth it.
@trackdemon5512
What evidence do you have that those numbers are inaccurate? Is it simply because they are lower than you want them to be? Or perhaps because they are lower than you see on some trash pulls? There is nothing inaccurate about the numbers.
On PC, we get the exact same popup in chat that shows total DPS for the fight. We also have addons like combat metrics that shows more details about the parse as well as the total DPS, but I have never seen a meaningful discrepancy between the total DPS from the CMX report and the in-game chat DPS.
Only way those numbers are inaccurate is if you are not actually killing the dummy. If you just stip mid parse, the numbers will be lower than they likely would be.
You get wildly different results on console trial dummies from rotation to rotation. It has been this way for years. Even on the small dummies it’s clear that the dummies just don’t register hits properly.
I’ll say it over and over again. PC experiences are worlds of a difference from Console. It’s fine that you can gain so much insight on PC (though usage of CMX if it’s not part of the analytics shows that ZOSs tracking of data for players is lacking) but on console dummy tests are essentially pointless aside advanced players trying to perfect their weave.
The straight developer implementation of combat dummies in this game is poor. If all the analytics from CMX and data logs was incorporated and displayed by the native UI it would be better. But on console you get none of that. That’s what the OP is experiencing.
That is not proof, that is conjecture. That is what happens when inexperienced people parse. They have a high standard deviation in their results because their rotations are inconsistent. Any links to threads on this topic? Youtube videos showing this in action? I simply don't believe it if I am being honest.- Im not inexperienced. I have multiple dungeon and trial HM titles, the PS4 Platinum, and 39k achievement points. I know what I'm doing and so do the people who I play with.
- Console combat is almost worlds apart in terms of difference from PC.
- There have been MULTIPLE threads over the years regarding console Combat Dummies and the issues faced.
- It's difficult to show the issues as combat metrics are basically non-existent on console.
- I think I can confidently say console players are tired of PC players telling us "It's not the game, it's you" when they don't play and experience what we have to deal with. There are clear reasons why PC players could get "Godslayer" and "Tick Tock Tormentor" soon after the respective chapter releases and on PS4 it took well over a year for excellent players to do the same for the first time on the entire platform.
3 -
Feaky✭✭✭I think the OP is confused. DPS = damage per second not damage per minute. His dps is terrible if he is taking nearly a min to kill a 100k mob. He should study some build videos and practice weaving.1
-
JTD✭✭✭Analyse your combat metrics (cmx/addon). Compare that to others and see what you are missing/doing different. Are you missing LA, waiting to long for next skill or maybe over casting stuff? You can also enable /encounterlog and upload those to esologs and have a look there. Record your own parse with obs/nvidea/amd software and watch it to see what you do wrong. In the heat of the moment you often miss stuff.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »DawnsLight65 wrote: »I KNOW I can do at least 65K in a minute in a dungeon with my buds, on my nightblade, but the trial dummy keeps saying I am only doing 11k damage in a minute. That is ridiculous. Each hit every second is at least 8K, and that doesnt include my ultimates. I routinely take down 100K bosses in less than a minute while soloing.
What am I doing wrong with the dummy?
You're using a dummy which are almost always inaccurate and IMO pointless.
If you're on console and easily clearing content you're doing great. You'll get better feedback and insights from the people you play with than from humping a console combat dummy for hours on end.
So you're saying that the 4800 crowns that ZOS charges for it is not worth it?
Console shows you DPS. That’s it. And usually it’s inaccurate. Often top console players who tell you their DPS stats are actually just running stuff on their PC accounts where they get data from.
$50 US for a combat dummy that’s inaccurate and doesn’t have parity with PC sure doesn’t seem worth it.
@trackdemon5512
What evidence do you have that those numbers are inaccurate? Is it simply because they are lower than you want them to be? Or perhaps because they are lower than you see on some trash pulls? There is nothing inaccurate about the numbers.
On PC, we get the exact same popup in chat that shows total DPS for the fight. We also have addons like combat metrics that shows more details about the parse as well as the total DPS, but I have never seen a meaningful discrepancy between the total DPS from the CMX report and the in-game chat DPS.
Only way those numbers are inaccurate is if you are not actually killing the dummy. If you just stip mid parse, the numbers will be lower than they likely would be.
You get wildly different results on console trial dummies from rotation to rotation. It has been this way for years. Even on the small dummies it’s clear that the dummies just don’t register hits properly.
I’ll say it over and over again. PC experiences are worlds of a difference from Console. It’s fine that you can gain so much insight on PC (though usage of CMX if it’s not part of the analytics shows that ZOSs tracking of data for players is lacking) but on console dummy tests are essentially pointless aside advanced players trying to perfect their weave.
The straight developer implementation of combat dummies in this game is poor. If all the analytics from CMX and data logs was incorporated and displayed by the native UI it would be better. But on console you get none of that. That’s what the OP is experiencing.
That is not proof, that is conjecture. That is what happens when inexperienced people parse. They have a high standard deviation in their results because their rotations are inconsistent. Any links to threads on this topic? Youtube videos showing this in action? I simply don't believe it if I am being honest.- Im not inexperienced. I have multiple dungeon and trial HM titles, the PS4 Platinum, and 39k achievement points. I know what I'm doing and so do the people who I play with.
- Console combat is almost worlds apart in terms of difference from PC.
- There have been MULTIPLE threads over the years regarding console Combat Dummies and the issues faced.
- It's difficult to show the issues as combat metrics are basically non-existent on console.
- I think I can confidently say console players are tired of PC players telling us "It's not the game, it's you" when they don't play and experience what we have to deal with. There are clear reasons why PC players could get "Godslayer" and "Tick Tock Tormentor" soon after the respective chapter releases and on PS4 it took well over a year for excellent players to do the same for the first time on the entire platform.
Never said you were inexperienced. I still have yet to see a link, video, etc., discussing the problem. You could very well be right, but I spend more time than I should on these forums and its brand new information to me.
I certainly understand that trifectas and the like are tougher on console. Less info via addons, more instabilities, weaker frame rate and graphics, inferior input devices, etc. can all certainly make things more difficult. But I simply have not seen or heard of anything verifiable that suggests that the chat window showing DPS from a dummy parse is inaccurate as you have stated.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on May 12, 2021 8:33PM1 -
DawnsLight65✭✭✭UPDATE: I just want to say am aware DPS is not Damage per Minute, its damage per second. I miswrote. 100K mini boss trash mobs were what I meant, or in some cases the overland minibosses. And they were going down closer to 3-7 sec vs 60 sec. But does that mean I didnt need to improve? Hell no. I have learned alot in the last few days.
I am now working with several vets who are the same class I am who are 1400CP+ and run DLC dungeons solo with ease. Goals!
My gear is fine, just need to get ALL to gold, tho that is a minor concern vs skills/passives/CP/rotation changes I have needed to make. I had and have been working with 6 mil and 21 mil dummies.
What happened? I got nerfed with the CP changeover for one problem. I had points slotted previously that I didnt after which drastically affected damage, and some that shouldnt have been for where I was now. That has been corrected in line with skinny cheeks & the vets for now, as well as skills and passives have been re-allotted.
I had hit a wall with the damage I could do with the skills/CP allocations I had set up on my own. To do more damage/progress as a viable DPS Stamblade further I had to get serious with changing a no-longer working rotation, etc to proc better effects and buffs & establish continuous damage.
I am now trying to unlearn what had gotten me to CP720, so that I can do the damage I should be doing with the new rotations going forward. In other words, I graduated high school and learned that first year college is alot more work, but also worth the reward.
Right now with the new reallottment of skills/CP I am already doing significantly more damage. Learning the new rotation is proving challenging, but I am diligently dungeoning to make it second nature. Easily single shot most overland critters. Tho some group bosses are VERY challenging doing solo. Especially those that regen health with pop up nodes or adds.
Thank you for all the enlightening info you have provided. Its great to get constructive feedback.
Ra'avi Ahjonihr Khajit Stamblade, Level 1500Master ThiefCrafter and ExplorerHero of the Dominion, Pact, and CovenantMember of the DragonguardFriend to Razum-darFavored of Azura'It does not matter to M'aiq how strong or smart one is. It only matters what one can do.' -M'aiq the Liar1 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »Reasons for low dps are usually down to a couple factors:
- overcasting or undercasting DOTs and buffs
- not light attack weaving
- missing important buffs like major brutality or major savagery
In terms of gear you wear Kinras and Selene, what is the other 5 piece set you're using?
I would install Action Duration Reminder if you're on PC to track your DOTs and buffs better.
And do a couple parses on the 3m dummy with Combat Metrics installed and post it here.
Keep in mind the 21m dummy is fully debuffed and doesnt have any resist, the 3m dummy has no debuffs and 18.2k resist so your dps will be a lot lower as a result.
With a little practice 30k on the 3m dummy is pretty easy to obtain but you first need to find out what you're doing wrong.
This is incorrect - the 21mil iron atro does have some resistances, it is not set to zero or “is fully debuffed and doesn’t have any resist”
Forgot exact value but it is something like 4xxx resist, e.g around 4k’ish so basically anyone using light armor passive has enough spell pen to be over this. Stam with med armor would need some additional pen.
1 -
Schemering✭✭✭DawnsLight65 wrote: »UPDATE: I just want to say am aware DPS is not Damage per Minute, its damage per second. I miswrote. 100K mini boss trash mobs were what I meant, or in some cases the overland minibosses. And they were going down closer to 3-7 sec vs 60 sec. But does that mean I didnt need to improve? Hell no. I have learned alot in the last few days.
I am now working with several vets who are the same class I am who are 1400CP+ and run DLC dungeons solo with ease. Goals!
My gear is fine, just need to get ALL to gold, tho that is a minor concern vs skills/passives/CP/rotation changes I have needed to make. I had and have been working with 6 mil and 21 mil dummies.
What happened? I got nerfed with the CP changeover for one problem. I had points slotted previously that I didnt after which drastically affected damage, and some that shouldnt have been for where I was now. That has been corrected in line with skinny cheeks & the vets for now, as well as skills and passives have been re-allotted.
I had hit a wall with the damage I could do with the skills/CP allocations I had set up on my own. To do more damage/progress as a viable DPS Stamblade further I had to get serious with changing a no-longer working rotation, etc to proc better effects and buffs & establish continuous damage.
I am now trying to unlearn what had gotten me to CP720, so that I can do the damage I should be doing with the new rotations going forward. In other words, I graduated high school and learned that first year college is alot more work, but also worth the reward.
Right now with the new reallottment of skills/CP I am already doing significantly more damage. Learning the new rotation is proving challenging, but I am diligently dungeoning to make it second nature. Easily single shot most overland critters. Tho some group bosses are VERY challenging doing solo. Especially those that regen health with pop up nodes or adds.
Thank you for all the enlightening info you have provided. Its great to get constructive feedback.
Im happyto read this, OP I read the whole thread and saw the confusion and suggestions. In my opinion it were all good answers of people really wanting to help; no childish git-gud nonsense but genuine questions and suggestions. Kudos to the community
I want to add 2 things
1-ESO is ALL about 3 things 1-friends and guildies 2-gear and 3-skills.
Guildies and friends will help you get geared and skilled. This is esential for improvement
So fill up the list to 100 friends and join 5 guilds; guilds is the best way to learn vet trials; when learned you can do them without discord too with any good team
2-in next Chapter update there will be implemented an ingame verssion of theAction Duration Reminder addon. Although visibly not as good as the original addon it will be a HUGE improvement for rotation tracking on console
enjoy:)PC/EU AD 1500+ PC/NA 300+
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