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A Plea for Accessibility

Werevampiwolf
Werevampiwolf
Soul Shriven
@ZOS_GinaBruno

Hello Gina,

I was told I should reach out to you, and made a forums account just to do so. I'm told you're an advocate for making ESO more accessible, so I'm reaching out to you specifically.

I'm a big fan of The Elder Scrolls series (it's gotten me through some hard times in my life), and ESO is no exception. But ESO in particular has a significant problem. It's a huge problem in a lot of games, and it's an excess of flashing lights, and/or an inability to turn off effects.

Unlike the other TES games, I can't just avoid using magic, because there's an additional variable...other players. (Also bosses in ESO seem to use a lot more magic that included bright or flashy lights than previous games)

I have a photosensitive neurological condition (I'm not going to give diagnostic specifics because it's private and this is a public forum), and it makes playing my favorite game quite difficult. On many days, I pretty much can only do treasure maps and fishing. I like treasure maps, but you can only do so many, and the same for fishing. Unless I'm having a Very Good Brain Day, I can't do dungeons or trials, or most World Bosses, or even many Delve bosses. Sometimes I can't even go into towns because other players are spamming Templar AOEs.

Essentially, this post is a plea for more options. There are many, many things that can trigger, so it is basically impossible to make a Photosensitive Safe Mode. So the best option is to have options. To make it so players can turn off certain things if they need. There's a great article on the subject by LauraKBuzz. For me in particular, the thing that tends to cause the most visual problems is sudden change in contrast.

I can't speak for everyone with neurological conditions, so if you decide to implement this, I would advise talking to many more players, and perhaps checking out CanIPlayThat. I suppose some people might be helped by a No Effects option, and I might use that on particularly Bad Brain Days, but please don't just stop at that. I know it's a pain in the butt for all involved, but only having two ends of an extreme scale doesn't help all the people in the middle. I for one would rather not have ALL effects turned off, because that would make it hard to know what the heck is going on. But I do have suggestions for Specifics.



Things that would help me specifically.

- Add an option to remove the black-white fullscreen flash that appears in many dungeons and other content. I know that it is there to help hide the sudden change in scenery when moving the players to a new location, but it is a surefire way to wreck my brain. An example of this is in Elden Hollow II, when you go through the portal to fight the giant...thing. I think the boss is called Murklight? (it's been a while since I played it, for obvious reasons, so my memory isn't perfect).

-Add an option to dim Templar light abilities. Light Spear, the AOE dots, ect. I've never played a Templar, for obvious reasons, and I mostly avoid them in general, so I can't tell you much about specific abilities.

- Also add the option to stop the flickering animation of the light abilities. In my opinion at least, it would be better to have a static, non-flashing spear of light (the player animation of stabbing is fine, it's the flickering that's the problem) than no spear, or the spear as it is.

-Add the option to dim or disable the flicker/flash of lightning and fire effects, for the same reason as Templar lights. For example, the Firestorm attack used by Pyroturge Encratis in Black Drake Villa, that fills the room with flame, is an extreme example, but even like, braziers mess with my brain.

- Basically add the options to turn off any flicker or flashing animation. Preferably sorted by type of animation, but I'd be happy with anything at this point. I'd rather deal with a janky looking static sprite than have my Brain.exe stop running.



Not Photosensitivity but related:
-Add the sound option to not hear music boxes. Music boxes in particular mess with my brain, and I've been in houses and guildhalls where I can't find the music box or don't have permission to turn if off, and it renders the space unusable unless I turn off the sound completely.


Not Photosensitive or Related but I'm A Softie:
-Add the ability to turn off death screams for mobs. Killing animals in particular makes me Very Sad because Autistic Hyperempathy, and as someone who recently had two dogs pass away, the wolf death scream is heartbreaking


-Pi

(PS, if I think of anything else, I'll add it in the comments later)

[Edited to remove Name from Thread Title]
Edited by ZOS_Mika on May 6, 2021 12:56PM
  • AlnilamE
    AlnilamE
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    This has been requested several times (also in the context of antiquities) and I hope they do something about it.
    The Moot Councillor
  • tsaescishoeshiner
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    Hopefully you're able to get the changes that you need—a whole "accessibility standards pass" could do a lot of good. Some games have robust accessibility options for everything from colorblindness to light sensitivity, so it's certainly doable.

    Does anyone else out there have light sensitivity and suggestions for changes that would help?

    Here's a nonexhaustive list of other threads on the matter since 2017:
    PC-NA
    in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner
  • Eiagra
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    I agree that accessibility is important, and a lot of games don't dig very far in this realm due to the amount of research and foresight and planning required. As a living game, it's not outside the realm of possibility to include such features in the development cycle (the setting to turn off other player effects has its limitations). But it's also something that does take development bandwidth to bring to fruition.

    Hopefully some day, though.
          In verity.
  • VaranisArano
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    Here are threads on two other areas where I've seen complaints from players with light sensitivities.

    Thunderstorms have strobing lightning effects.
    1.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380962/let-us-turn-off-lightning-effects-during-storms
    2.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505879/tired-of-playing-eso-with-sunglasses/p1

    Scrying flashes when you enter and exit the scrying mode.
    1.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546189/lost-treasures-of-skyrim-please-remove-bright-flashes-from-scrying
    2.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529851/scrying-interface-has-too-bright-flashes

    ZOS has made a lot of strides towards making ESO more friendly for color-blind players. I'd like to see them step up and address areas where their game utilizes effects that trigger light sensitivity. Light flashes that cause headaches for players aren't in any way essential to Scrying.
    Edited by VaranisArano on May 6, 2021 9:35PM
  • Sylvermynx
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    Here are threads on two other areas where I've seen complaints from players with light sensitivities.

    Thunderstorms have stroking lightning effects.
    1.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380962/let-us-turn-off-lightning-effects-during-storms
    2.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505879/tired-of-playing-eso-with-sunglasses/p1

    Scrying flashes when you enter and exit the scrying mode.
    1.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546189/lost-treasures-of-skyrim-please-remove-bright-flashes-from-scrying
    2.https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/529851/scrying-interface-has-too-bright-flashes

    ZOS has made a lot of strides towards making ESO more friendly for color-blind players. I'd like to see them step up and address areas where their game utilizes effects that trigger light sensitivity. Light flashes that cause headaches for players aren't in any way essential to Scrying.

    Agree. I'm not personally bothered - but the thunderstorm thing is why my daughter and granddaughters don't play this game. They are subject to migraines (from my genes though I don't have migraines myself) and that stuff just causes them so much pain and angst.
  • GreenHere
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    I know this sounds like I'm just being a troll, but I swear I'm not -- I'm just genuinely trying to help people:

    Wear sunglasses. Yes, really. It helps.

    Find some that are the right shade (as in darkening...ness... not color) for your eyes/monitor/room setup, and bonus points for finding some that are anti-glare/reflection (it makes a difference, trust me). They even make yellow-tinted "gaming glasses" or whatever that are apparently purpose built for reducing run-of-the-mill eye strain when looking at screens all day, but I have no idea if they will address the issue well or not -- they're only meant for reducing incoming blue light from what I can tell, not reducing overall brightness/flash/intensity/et cetera.

    I wear some very mildly shady shades while gaming for this exact reason as well, and I can tell you that it makes a difference. All the annoying effects are still there, but at least the sharp edge of intensity is knocked down to a dull annoyance for most things. YMMV :sunglasses:



    Now if anyone knows a solution to annoyances to do with motion, I'd LOVE to hear em! Like say, for instance, the obnoxious flapping of TWILIGHT WINGS that I can't walk 15 flipping feet without running into...
  • Athan1
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    The game would be unplayable for everyone if all visuals are toned down substantially, because you won't be able to see what is happening. Unfortunately video games are visual.

    There are numerous easy fixes if you want to reduce the number of flashes on your screen, such as minimum screen brightness, physical or software filters in your screen, that can make everything darker. There are special monitors and filters. Like someone above said, sunglasses may help too.

    Tbh, video games are generally advised against for people with visual impairments or disorders, so I am not even sure if you should be playing, and you should consult with your doctors. I'm concerned you may be damaging your brain or worsening your condition :/
    Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr
  • SilverBride
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    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568269/please-stop-flashing-bright-lights-in-my-eyes/p1

    That is a thread I started recently about how painful the bright flashing lights are. I don't know of any medical condition that is causing my sensitivity but I do have migraines which could be related.

    No other game I ever played flashed full screen bright white lights like ESO does. There has to be a better way.
    Edited by SilverBride on May 6, 2021 2:35AM
    PCNA
  • Fennwitty
    Fennwitty
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    I have no visual problems aside from wearing glasses, I will say this game definitely goes way above and beyond with flashing lights and particle effects.

    It was a major barrier to my learning group content when I started ~2 years ago. It's just incredibly hard to see WTF is going on during a group fight.

    I made a lot of UI changes like always showing names and health bars and turning off all special effects I was able to (and there's still a bajillion of them) and it's much more bearable.

    But much is likely practice because I'm able to keep track of where the enemies are without having to actually see them, by piecing together their location with the fragments of sight and movement I DO get between the Templar spears and storm atronachs.

    So even as someone well within the quote 'normal' range, I would also appreciate ways to dramatically cut down a lot of this flashing stuff.
    Edited by Fennwitty on May 6, 2021 2:42AM
    PC NA
  • spartaxoxo
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    GreenHere wrote: »
    Now if anyone knows a solution to annoyances to do with motion, I'd LOVE to hear em! Like say, for instance, the obnoxious flapping of TWILIGHT WINGS that I can't walk 15 flipping feet without running into...

    Some solutions I have heard work from people who get this (but I do not, so ymmv) is to eat some ginger before playing, and to sit back from the tv/screen. Sitting too close can cause you to get sickness from the distortion (also sitting too far, so gl with finding your sweet spot).

    Mythbusters even confirmed ginger working for motion sickness.

    https://mythresults.com/episode43

    Edit:

    Oh here's a thread on Reddit that might help too.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/2bmz26/how_can_one_overcome_extreme_motion_sickness/
    Edited by spartaxoxo on May 6, 2021 2:48AM
  • Tigertron
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    I don’t have a sensitivity (that I know of) but I think I am developing one. I don’t know how anyone can say if the lights and flashing were toned down you wouldn’t see what is going on. It is literally the opposite. Because of all the flashing and gamma bursting I can’t see my UI half the time.

    I died in Wayrest Sewers 2 because I was in a huge ball of light and could not see my health bar and didn’t realize we had a fake healer.

    But I notice I usually squint like I’m looking into the sun during dungeons and trials and find it more than a bit uncomfortable.
    Edited by Tigertron on May 6, 2021 2:48AM
  • GreenHere
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    GreenHere wrote: »
    Now if anyone knows a solution to annoyances to do with motion, I'd LOVE to hear em! Like say, for instance, the obnoxious flapping of TWILIGHT WINGS that I can't walk 15 flipping feet without running into...

    Some solutions I have heard work from people who get this (but I do not, so ymmv) is to eat some ginger before playing, and to sit back from the tv/screen. Sitting too close can cause you to get sickness from the distortion (also sitting too far, so gl with finding your sweet spot).

    Mythbusters even confirmed ginger working for motion sickness.

    https://mythresults.com/episode43

    Edit:

    Oh here's a thread on Reddit that might help too.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/2bmz26/how_can_one_overcome_extreme_motion_sickness/


    Hey, thanks @spartaxoxo ! I appreciate the helpful input! :smiley:

    What I deal with isn't motion sickness though, not as other people describe it. What I have is more... I guess it'd probably be a neurosis of some kind.

    The best way I can think to describe it is kind of like if someone were flipping the lights on and off repeatedly while you were trying to read a book in a well-lit room during the day. Sure, the lights being on certainly aren't really necessary and them being off (or on) shouldn't really impact your ability to read in any meaningful way, but... it's still damn distracting. What I experience with flapping/fidgeting/glowy-pulsating pets and abilities is somewhere along those lines, I reckon. So I suppose it's just my stupid brain's lack of ability to adapt as well as others to that kind of stuff; which I think is pretty close to textbook neurotic. Fun stuff!

    I generally am not in favor of the whole "change everything based on my needs/preferences!" thing, but this is one of those areas I can't help but feel like ZOS just has an uncaring or amateurish approach in. Most game devs place significant importance on making sure their design choices are not creating active confusion/discomfort/et cetera for their users, but ESO just seems to be piling on bigger and brighter and flashier and brighter again and more more more visual effects every year. It's pretty clear that they have little regard for these sort of issues, sadly.

    Twilights in particular are just kind of a pet peeve of mine, because they're right at camera level for me -- and they are literally E V E R Y W H E R E I turn. I find myself facing corners in towns to open my menus so I don't see them flapping in the background, lol. Actually, thinking about my reading a book example above... it's more like someone is flipping a lamp on and off and on and off and on and off and on and off DIRECTLY behind the book you're trying to read. :P

    Sorry for the rant, just seemed kinda relevant given the plea for accessibility considerations and whatnot.



    Anyway, I do appreciate the willingness to help! Very cool of you to dig up links for me too! That mythresults site in particular is a cool find; definitely gonna poke around there a bit more.
    Thank you again @spartaxoxo <3
  • Adaarye
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    I shared screens, with a friend that I was trying to bring into game, while I was doing pledges. His response was "absolutely not". Even through Skype screen share, in his words, there were "too many flashy and bright effects during combat". Because of those, he wouldn't enjoy the game.

    I think the OP was asking for video options to include the ability to turn some things down or off ... not to have all the bling and drastic shifts removed.

    I hope ZoS makes it happen. The game is not exactly friendly to people who suffer from several neurological conditions.
  • SickleCider
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    @Werevampiwolf

    I agree with everything you said! Especially about the white flashes!! People have suggested that there should be a variable scale for screen particle effects, which would be helpful to both photosensitive people and those on unstable connections.

    Could you please, perhaps, add a couple notes to your post? 🙏

    1. I am also a photosensitive person (my problem is ocular, not neurological), and what would benefit me tremendously is gamma and color bias options. If I could lower overall contrast/saturation and filter out some of the blue light I could play this game more comfortably. The latter could be achieved with a screen filter.

    I have adjusted the settings on my display, but I can only go so far before everything is grey and red. Something about the lighting engine in this game specifically really hurts me, especially in high daytime in a place like Alik'r or Bleakrock where there is a lot of uninterrupted pale ground texture. Everything turns white.

    2. Please don't leave console players out if you do an accessibility pass. PC players not only have the ability to supplement their game with add-ons, but they have more QOL features baked into their game. There are a lot of features for which console is just never considered, and it'd be upsetting to see them lack in something like this. Myself, I'm a PS player.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno , pinging you to this thread again, sorry!
    ✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨
  • Werevampiwolf
    Werevampiwolf
    Soul Shriven
    Athan1 wrote: »
    The game would be unplayable for everyone if all visuals are toned down substantially, because you won't be able to see what is happening. Unfortunately video games are visual.

    There are numerous easy fixes if you want to reduce the number of flashes on your screen, such as minimum screen brightness, physical or software filters in your screen, that can make everything darker. There are special monitors and filters. Like someone above said, sunglasses may help too.

    Tbh, video games are generally advised against for people with visual impairments or disorders, so I am not even sure if you should be playing, and you should consult with your doctors. I'm concerned you may be damaging your brain or worsening your condition :/

    I'm not asking them to remove all the visual aspects of the game for everyone, I'm just asking for the option to be able to adjust them to your own needs on your own screen.

    I have my brightness down, I've tried sunglasses, (though as I mentioned, my problem isn't just brightness, it's the change in brightness. So a 5 to a 10 is just as bad as a 10 to a 15.) Also I shouldn't have to use 3rd party programs (that more often than not costs money) to play a game that doesn't actually require the features (it's not a flashing light-based game). You wouldn't tell a person in a wheelchair to carry around a movable ramp to get into public buildings, would you? (and yes, movable ramps do exist and they're often large and a pain in the ass to carry around and deploy. I'm also a person who uses mobility aids so it's a very apt comparison in my case, though I have not yet gotten the point where I use a chair.).

    Yes, I know it's a private business and they can do what they want, but they make a product for people to use, and it really isn't that hard to make the vast majority of these fixes. Modders do it all the time, and I use such mods on many games where it's an option. But the addon system doesn't really allow for such things in ESO.

    And yes, I've cleared playing video games with my specialist, as long as I'm not feeling too poorly.
  • Werevampiwolf
    Werevampiwolf
    Soul Shriven
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568269/please-stop-flashing-bright-lights-in-my-eyes/p1

    That is a thread I started recently about how painful the bright flashing lights are. I don't know of any medical condition that is causing my sensitivity but I do have migraines which could be related.

    No other game I ever played flashed full screen bright white lights like ESO does. There has to be a better way.

    Fun fact, there's a fair bit of evidence that migraines are a form of seizure, and the scientific consensus is beginning to move that way. Migraines and seizures are generally triggered by the same things, can have similar effects (like auras and brain fog), and are even minimized with the same medications.
  • Werevampiwolf
    Werevampiwolf
    Soul Shriven
    GreenHere wrote: »
    I know this sounds like I'm just being a troll, but I swear I'm not -- I'm just genuinely trying to help people:

    Wear sunglasses. Yes, really. It helps.

    Find some that are the right shade (as in darkening...ness... not color) for your eyes/monitor/room setup, and bonus points for finding some that are anti-glare/reflection (it makes a difference, trust me). They even make yellow-tinted "gaming glasses" or whatever that are apparently purpose built for reducing run-of-the-mill eye strain when looking at screens all day, but I have no idea if they will address the issue well or not -- they're only meant for reducing incoming blue light from what I can tell, not reducing overall brightness/flash/intensity/et cetera.

    I wear some very mildly shady shades while gaming for this exact reason as well, and I can tell you that it makes a difference. All the annoying effects are still there, but at least the sharp edge of intensity is knocked down to a dull annoyance for most things. YMMV :sunglasses:



    Now if anyone knows a solution to annoyances to do with motion, I'd LOVE to hear em! Like say, for instance, the obnoxious flapping of TWILIGHT WINGS that I can't walk 15 flipping feet without running into...

    I've tried sunglasses and they don't help me, because my biggest issue is the change in brightness. So a brightness change from 5 to 10 is just as bad as a 10 to 15. Also yeah, I do not deal with the twilight wings too good either. That's actually another possible trigger for neurological conditions (because visually it's not too different from fan blades.) Functionally it's the same as switching back and forth between two colors, even if it's the same brightness.
  • cynicalbutterfly
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    I don't have any sensitivity issues but even I would gladly welcome an option to turn off some of the various light effects. Some of them are just downright annoying and have even given me a headache to see over a period of time. I'm surprised there aren't options already for it. Most games out there have them.
  • Kesstryl
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    I don't have any issues, but toning down some of the flashy spell effects would give a huge QOL for tanking. I sometimes move the boss a few steps back just so I can see when it telegraphs heavy attacks, otherwise I go flying because I didn't see the boss powering up with all the daedroths, atronacts, suns, and flashing overpowering what I'm seeing. I would welcome this option.
    HEARTHLIGHT - A guild for housing enthusiasts! Contact @Kesstryl in-game to join.
  • oterWitz
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    This thread reminds me of one I distinctly remember reading a few years ago which requested that the bright screen flash that sometime happens on quests be turned down or off for similar reasons to yours. Today I was doing the public dungeon in Grahtwood and remembered that thread when there was a bright screen flash. It seems nothing has been done about it, despite these requests for years now.

    I hope the devs can start prioritizing this, even in small steps. Maybe if their new head honchos at Microsoft have some sort of "accessibility initiative" they'll allocate resources to it, that seems like the most likely way it will happen imo. But then again, we did eventually get the ability to change the color of aoes for colorblind folks, maybe ZoS will eventually do something on this front as well through their own initiative.
    PC NA
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