Is it just me or is Sorcerer just awfully overloaded as a class in PvP?

WoppaBoem · April 2021

I find sorc are very well balanced atm. I play stamwarden myself which are OP so I can say I am happy MagSorc, Stamblade have been good this patch, StamSorc and both necro's are very decent so I don't see any issue atm with sorcs. Pain to deal with for sure, should streak stun maybe not but then something else a very good condition should replace the stun. Keep sorcs where they are. For other mag classes, the procs will be back next patch so yeah they will be good again with Zaan, Vatesrahn destro and mist form.

Thraben · April 2021

Knavenformed wrote: »

After a good long day in Cyrodiil once again after returning to the game I've been enjoying my time a lot more with the tame non-proc Cyrodiil.
I played some Imperial City too today and had a taste of the proc set life and did have fun there too in its own way.
My first shot at Battlegrounds also was a success with a good team there.

But the more and more I focused on trying to remember the strenghts and weaknesses of each class and making a plan of attack I found out Sorcerers just have all the answers and tools to counter and attack on everything.
.

So, I don't really know if I'm sparking a discussion or just venting out, but tips would be appreciated since I just don't find this situation balanced in a way where I feel like a fun time is ahead when I play.

First things first:

1) You are not interrupting your increased Heavy Bow attack with a quick silver shard.

2) You say that MagSorcs cause you the most trouble, but you don't equip a morph of defensive posture, which is a hard counter to 90% of them.

3)MagSorc have no counter to fossilize.

In short, your main problem is that you want to beat a MagSorc at his very own game, which is ranged combat. Don't try that. Attack the Sorc where he is weakest, not where he is strongest.

There is a reason experienced players don't consider MagSorcs a serious threat. StamSorcs, Stamnecroes and StamWardens are all higher in the food chain, and I know some good MagDKs above a MagSorc as well.

Bashev · April 2021

Thraben wrote: »

Knavenformed wrote: »

After a good long day in Cyrodiil once again after returning to the game I've been enjoying my time a lot more with the tame non-proc Cyrodiil.
I played some Imperial City too today and had a taste of the proc set life and did have fun there too in its own way.
My first shot at Battlegrounds also was a success with a good team there.

But the more and more I focused on trying to remember the strenghts and weaknesses of each class and making a plan of attack I found out Sorcerers just have all the answers and tools to counter and attack on everything.
.

So, I don't really know if I'm sparking a discussion or just venting out, but tips would be appreciated since I just don't find this situation balanced in a way where I feel like a fun time is ahead when I play.

First things first:

1) You are not interrupting your increased Heavy Bow attack with a quick silver shard.

2) You say that MagSorcs cause you the most trouble, but you don't equip a morph of defensive posture, which is a hard counter to 90% of them.

3)MagSorc have no counter to fossilize.

In short, your main problem is that you want to beat a MagSorc at his very own game, which is ranged combat. Don't try that. Attack the Sorc where he is weakest, not where he is strongest.

There is a reason experienced players don't consider MagSorcs a serious threat. StamSorcs, Stamnecroes and StamWardens are all higher in the food chain, and I know some good MagDKs above a MagSorc as well.

Actually sorcs has the best counter to fossilize. You can break free and streak and you will be out of mele range. All the other classes should break free and roll dodge.

Thraben · April 2021

Bashev wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

Knavenformed wrote: »

After a good long day in Cyrodiil once again after returning to the game I've been enjoying my time a lot more with the tame non-proc Cyrodiil.
I played some Imperial City too today and had a taste of the proc set life and did have fun there too in its own way.
My first shot at Battlegrounds also was a success with a good team there.

But the more and more I focused on trying to remember the strenghts and weaknesses of each class and making a plan of attack I found out Sorcerers just have all the answers and tools to counter and attack on everything.
.

So, I don't really know if I'm sparking a discussion or just venting out, but tips would be appreciated since I just don't find this situation balanced in a way where I feel like a fun time is ahead when I play.

First things first:

1) You are not interrupting your increased Heavy Bow attack with a quick silver shard.

2) You say that MagSorcs cause you the most trouble, but you don't equip a morph of defensive posture, which is a hard counter to 90% of them.

3)MagSorc have no counter to fossilize.

In short, your main problem is that you want to beat a MagSorc at his very own game, which is ranged combat. Don't try that. Attack the Sorc where he is weakest, not where he is strongest.

There is a reason experienced players don't consider MagSorcs a serious threat. StamSorcs, Stamnecroes and StamWardens are all higher in the food chain, and I know some good MagDKs above a MagSorc as well.

Actually sorcs has the best counter to fossilize. You can break free and streak and you will be out of mele range. All the other classes should break free and roll dodge.

Actually, that's wrong: Fossilize is effective because it's a double CC, and most players have difficulties understanding the difference between soft and hard CC, and forget how to counter which first.

Having an inbuilt purge like a Warden and sometimes a Stemplar has helps greatly. This is the very reason Fossilize generally don't work against organized groups, as they have an automatic purge, which renders this in theory best CC skill in the game impotent.

Particularly those 2 hit Portsorcs have neither the nerves nor the stamina to endure attacks on their stamina pool for more than 10 seconds. They will port away, yes, but are otherwise harmless then.

Joy_Division · April 2021

Bashev wrote: »

This is the only class from the original ones that has never been in the bottom of the food chain. That is great achievement.

Not true. They were absolutely bottom tier 1.3-1.5. But the anti-sorcerer propaganda on these forums have long since obscured historical reality.

master_vanargand · April 2021

Kikazaru wrote: »

So we are halfway through the no proc test in CyrodiiI and I'm curious how much the balance of power has shifted since then!

Nbs and Sorcs have risen a lot in power as I have predicted! The amount of magicka sorcerers are at an all time high since like.... forever!

This is another thread, but a very interesting questionnaire.
This questionnaire shows that Sorcerer is the strongest class in PvP.

Imryll · April 2021

My magplar regards sorcs as "aspirational."

Seriously, let's focus on what's lacking in classes that are currently underloaded (as in where's my burst), rather than nerfing classes that actually work.

Merforum · April 2021

Merforum wrote: »

Too many people only play 1 class so get very defensive when anything is said about it. I have stam and mag toons for each class, and 1 extra magsorc for crafting. I will way without a doubt that sorc has the best skills, and has anyone looked the passives, they're insane. Here's the funny thing Sorcerer you think is Magic right, well they are but also in ESO they are the best Stam class too.

-Reduces the Health, Magicka, and Stamina costs of your abilities by 6%.
-When you hit an enemy with a directly applied Dark Magic ability, you heal for 1600. This effect scales off your Maximum Health and can occur once every 0.5 seconds.
-After blocking an attack, your next Health, Magicka, or Stamina Ability costs 15% less.
-You restore 300 Magicka or Stamina when one of your non-Ultimate Daedric Summoning abilities end. The resource returned is dictated by the ability's cost.
-Reduces the cost of your Ultimate abilities by 15%.
-Increases your Health and Stamina Recovery by 20% while you have a Daedric Summoning ability slotted.
-Increases your Magicka Recovery by 10%.
-Increases your Physical and Shock Damage by 5%.
-Increases your damage done against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have.
-Increases your Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted. Current bonus: 0%. Increases your -Maximum Health by 8% while you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.

I think the w/s dmg 2% one even works for back bar, so you can have a full 2hand front bar like everyone else, and 5 sorc abilities giving 10% w/s dmg plus 5% phys dmg, plus 15% ULT (hello quick dawnbreaker)

So Streak is totally broken. BTW it is not only for getting away. It is also for entering battle where you land right on someone with an unblockable stun and start beating them senseless. If you are streaking past someone and out of position you are doing it wrong. Also fury spam can steal almost as many kills as poison inject spam. But these passives I think are really what put sorc over the top, for Stam in PVP.

They could fix sorc streak to be not OP pretty easily (for PVP, no one uses this in PVE), allow it to still streak in the open for 15 mtr, but if you streak into a player it is single target and you don't go thru them just stop where they are. Or they could make it blockable. Or they could reduce the range to 7m. Or they could remove the stun, etc/etc.

BTW they should also look into fixing NB's OP cloak and shade. cloak shouldn't work if someone is looking directly at you (kind of like vamp hypnosis except in reverse). Then they could even make it 8 sec like it used to be and be useful in PVE again. And shade is almost even more broken where people can teleport through walls and floors, just insane. They should change it so you can only teleport to shade while it has line of sight of you, for instance, the shade should move with you in battle just staying back a bit to shoot their bow. If you run around a corner, you should not be able to teleport you and shade have LOS.

BTW if they wanted to fix more broken stuff, they should change shalk and blastbones to do DOT NOT huge blast damage, kind of like what they initially did with all the proc sets. For instance instead, make the 4K damage over 4 seconds. Then you could still use the delayed attack but not be so dramatic. They're reducing the heal of Acrtic wind already so that might make some people happy. They might also want to tone down Necro tether also or make it not scale off offensive stat, which is insane too.

Proc sets, healers, tanky builds are nothing compared to all these OP things. Wonder why people only talk about those and ignore this stuff.

zvavi · April 2021

Merforum wrote: »

Proc sets, healers, tanky builds are nothing compared to all these OP things. Wonder why people only talk about those and ignore this stuff.

1. Cause we want class diversity.
2. There is a thing called balance in imbalance, nothing is broken when everything is broken.

WuffyCerulei · April 2021

Berchelous · April 2021

Nerfsorc topics are with us again lol. Try killing +30k warden with sorc in cyrolaag.
Demand buff to other classes such as templar and dk instead of nerfing everything. If you are looking for real overtuned classes you should look into warden and necro.

Bashev · April 2021

Berchelous wrote: »

Nerfsorc topics are with us again lol. Try killing +30k warden with sorc in cyrolaag.
Demand buff to other classes such as templar and dk instead of nerfing everything. If you are looking for real overtuned classes you should look into warden and necro.

We are trying but when we want some buffs for classes that need them, people say that they are good and we have to learn to play.
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568744/can-mdk-get-1-one-burst-damage-ability-in-the-next-test-cycle
We are in catch-22 logic now

Berchelous · April 2021

Bashev wrote: »

Berchelous wrote: »

Nerfsorc topics are with us again lol. Try killing +30k warden with sorc in cyrolaag.
Demand buff to other classes such as templar and dk instead of nerfing everything. If you are looking for real overtuned classes you should look into warden and necro.

We are trying but when we want some buffs for classes that need them, people say that they are good and we have to learn to play.
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568744/can-mdk-get-1-one-burst-damage-ability-in-the-next-test-cycle
We are in catch-22 logic now

I think every new class kills the old counterpart of it so that's why templars and dk are not buffed. Warden got templar's healing and added tankiness&burst on it. Necro got dk tankiness and added insane burst&utility on it. The new class, if comes, probably gonna kill either sorc or nightblade.

Ragnaroek93 · April 2021

Only Ball of Lightning and Overload are too strong (BoL is pretty much a better version of old Dk wings and Overload desynchs your health and also lasts too long). Without both skills sorc would be pretty mediocre, far behind Necro and Warden tbh.

Gilvoth · April 2021

Zenimax and Microsoft,
Please let us have the shield Breaker set back.

Joy_Division · April 2021

Gilvoth wrote: »

Zenimax and Microsoft,
Please let us have the shield Breaker set back.

Of all the bad ideas ZOS has come up with over the years, that set is near or at the top of the list.

Gilvoth · April 2021

that set is the only set that can help us fight sorcerers.
nothing else works, thats what this whole thread is about.

let us have the shield breaker set back to balance out the fights.

Brrrofski · April 2021

Gilvoth wrote: »

that set is the only set that can help us fight sorcerers.
nothing else works, thats what this whole thread is about.

let us have the shield breaker set back to balance out the fights.

It creates an imbalance against the sorc though. You can't shield as you're not defended against the light attack proc damage, but if you don't use a shield you're in light armor eating full damage attacks.

When it came out, it was a stam set, and ironically, it was mag users that had the most issues with sorc.

Harness at the time ONLY defended against magica skill. So sorcs had two shields against mag builds and one against stam.

Cirantille · April 2021

Everyone who asks for a nerf to a class, should play that class extensively to see it is not how it seems from far

Thank you

Gilvoth · April 2021

people are makeing threads about how Overpowered the sorcerers are and how they have way too much Damage and Way too much Defenses.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/563198/what-class-do-you-find-the-most-difficult-to-fight-in-cyrodiil-no-proc-test-edition#latest

we need the shieldbreaker set back.

please!

please help us.

Dalsinthus · April 2021

Gilvoth wrote: »

that set is the only set that can help us fight sorcerers.
nothing else works, thats what this whole thread is about.

let us have the shield breaker set back to balance out the fights.

You can't be serious. Nothing else works?

Gilvoth · April 2021

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

that set is the only set that can help us fight sorcerers.
nothing else works, thats what this whole thread is about.

let us have the shield breaker set back to balance out the fights.

You can't be serious. Nothing else works?

i gave my feedback
it's not a joke
its not cause im stupid
its not a troll
its not cause i cant pvp, or anyother excuse people make about me to insult or belittle my feedback.

we need the shieldbreaker set back,
yes i am Very serious.

im just giving my feedback.

it takes Groups of people to kill 1 sorcerer.

-GROUPS-

lets think on that for a minute.
and they dont even kill him if he starts to loose against 10 or more people he just bolt escapes away momentarily and then comes back when they stop chasing them.

Dalsinthus · April 2021

Gilvoth wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

that set is the only set that can help us fight sorcerers.
nothing else works, thats what this whole thread is about.

let us have the shield breaker set back to balance out the fights.

You can't be serious. Nothing else works?

i gave my feedback
it's not a joke
its not cause im stupid
its not a troll
its not cause i cant pvp, or anyother excuse people make about me to insult or belittle my feedback.

we need the shieldbreaker set back,
yes i am Very serious.

im just giving my feedback.

it takes Groups of people to kill 1 sorcerer.

-GROUPS-

lets think on that for a minute.
and they dont even kill him if he starts to loose against 10 or more people he just bolt escapes away momentarily and then comes back when they stop chasing them.

Just to be clear, there's no shade or insult intended on my part, Gilvoth.

My experience has just been very different. I regularly defeat sorcs on my stamNB, stamden, and yes, magsorc in pvp, 1v1. This is in cp and no cp; I pvp almost every day. Same goes for big group fights. Filling that 20 of 20 sorcs quest doesn't take long because (1) there are plenty of sorc players and (2) I do not find them particularly hard to kill. All it takes is well timed cc and burst.

When I do play my sorc (currently rank 42 general) I regularly lose fights 1v1 vs. players that out play me, when I just make bad choices, when I get unlucky, etc...

In terms of where sorcs are overturned, I find a well played sorc that uses the BoL morph of bolt escape to be the hardest to kill. But I have just as much trouble with a tanky necro or tanky warden or a stamblade that knows how to kite well with shade and cloak.

Merforum · April 2021

zvavi wrote: »

Merforum wrote: »

Proc sets, healers, tanky builds are nothing compared to all these OP things. Wonder why people only talk about those and ignore this stuff.

1. Cause we want class diversity.
2. There is a thing called balance in imbalance, nothing is broken when everything is broken.

I love my sorcs and they were the first class I was able to do vet content and arenas with because they are most powerful by far/easiest to use. BTW the class identity is around PETS and LIGHTNING even if streak was completely removed that would still be the case. But one thing that makes no sense like I mention earlier is why does a sorcerer have so many phys damage/stam recovery passives ALSO. I pointed out a few little tweaks that would make streak, cloak and shade still functional without being OP.

1. WE actually NEED BUILD DIVERSITY in PVP (and stop breaking PVE)
2. NOT just STAM dawnbreaker, dizzy, exe bots for every class, or magsorcs and everything else unviable

Anyone who is saying that a tanky build who basically can only survive a cheesy combo but has hard time killing anyone MUST BE NERFed. Or inconsistent, long cooldown proc sets MUST BE NERFed, but streak/cloak/shade/shalk/BB are all perfectly fine are defending ONLY THEIR PERSONAL PLAYSTYLE NOT what is best for game or 'balanced' or 'diverse', etc.

PhoenixGrey · April 2021

Nothing new here. Just all the potatoes coming together and frying up a sorc thread.
Happens once every season and now more than ever as non proc potatoes are worse than ever

Some food for thought. Mag sorc is hands down the easiest class to kill in a high burst meta. Low resistances and low health pool and stacking cost on an escape skill. No one button I win proc sets synergize with sorc as well.

Sahidom · April 2021

Sorcerers are an overloaded class that didn't get too beaten down over the years. ZOS shined some favor since their action bars are tight on "space" where they overloaded the skills. Similar to Wardens today as the Stamina version of Sorcerers. For this, and many reasons, Sorcerers are one of the more complete core classes of the game. Their also the most vocal when it comes to DPS/defense loss, as their main defense has been damage shields; Now, that's not so much the case as the flotilla of new sets entered the game. For new players, the class would be top pick unless you have access to one of the other P2W classes - or, any other class that fits their playstyle.

EmEm_Oh · April 2021

Gilvoth wrote: »

it is true, and has been this way since beta 8 + years ago.
sorcerer is Highly overpowered in Damage and defenses.
the developers dont pvp so they dont realize how overpowered the sorcerer class really is.

and to make matters worse they are overwhelming in numbers here on the forums all claiming that they are not overpowered and they harrass and belittle anyone that speaks out about it.

Like with any class, it's only as OP as the user who understands it....and to an extent...the class is only as OP as the person on the receiving end allows it to follow through. I've seen every...single....class....be OP. I've only been around for 6 years, but that should be long enough.

I use a magsorc, magblade, stamden, magden, stamplar, they all do pretty good. I don't use the exploits that many use so I think it's more exploit-related than it is pure class related. In addition, it's also certain builds that are pushed by guilds and they all do dungeon runs together to get those special sets.

I've seen terrible sorcs, terrible wardens, terrible blades, etc. But the way I've dealt with PvP OP'ers is just avoid them if I don't want to expand my experience or it's just going to be a waste of time as they're trolling in that area so I don't focus on another. Currently, it's taking up to 10 of my peers and myself to kill one "troll", and while yes it could be the sets they use and their OPness, I've also come to the conclusion that there's just a lot of not-so-great players who don't understand what these guys are doing and how to effectively respond to it.

katorga · April 2021

Gilvoth wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

that set is the only set that can help us fight sorcerers.
nothing else works, thats what this whole thread is about.

let us have the shield breaker set back to balance out the fights.

You can't be serious. Nothing else works?

i gave my feedback
it's not a joke
its not cause im stupid
its not a troll
its not cause i cant pvp, or anyother excuse people make about me to insult or belittle my feedback.

we need the shieldbreaker set back,
yes i am Very serious.

im just giving my feedback.

it takes Groups of people to kill 1 sorcerer.

-GROUPS-

lets think on that for a minute.
and they dont even kill him if he starts to loose against 10 or more people he just bolt escapes away momentarily and then comes back when they stop chasing them.

Umm. It takes groups, -GROUPS- to kill my Stamcro and my outgoing damage and innate healing/defense is way higher than a Sorc's. There are multiple class/builds out there right now, that are way, way better than Magsorc.

The only exception is noproc cyrodiil where ZOS nerfed every other build into the ground and tilted the playing field back to stat-based Sorc and NB. As soon as the artificial set restrictions are gone, so is Magsorc...problem solved.

I take the counter-cultural view that 1vX MagSorc is actually very difficult to play in today's ESO. The only meta the class synergizes with is the articial noproc meta. Top tier players make it work, but they are going to eat your lunch no matter what class they play.

In proc-enabled pvp, rolling stamsorc is better, stamcro even better than that, and Warden the absolute best for leveraging the current meta. Magsorc, meh.

Psiion · April 2021

Greetings all,

After removing a few posts, we would like to remind everyone that Baiting is against the Community Rules and generally non-constructive. While we understand opinions may differ, we ask that posts stay respectful and within the Forum's Community Rules moving forward.

relentless_turnip · May 2021

Magsorcs aren't an issue at all and stamsorcs are finally in a decent place. Neither are on par with stamden IMO. What we are discussing here essentially are different playstyles which are countered by different playstyles. I would guess the OP is playing a brawler esque class with low mobility?