FriedEggSandwich wrote: »-It's melee range, so therefore puts the sorc in threat range (more of an issue for magsorcs).
FriedEggSandwich wrote: »-Locks the user up and has them face the wrong direction meaning no time for follow up frags if used against a good player
who knows how to break free.
FriedEggSandwich wrote: »-The counter is immovable pots.
FriedEggSandwich wrote: »-Rune cage is telegraphed and dodgeable.
Using streak as an offensive stun comes with drawbacks.
Magsorc, a full ranged build, has to go meele for it. On Stamsorc its exponentially harder to use because you have to make sure to end up in meele range immediatly after streak. That means either casting it from just the perfect range or against a wall when the opponent stands next to it. Doing that consistently is not easy at all.
It does nothing that other stuns dont already do. Fossilize, arctic blast, mass hysteria and turn undead can all achieve the same results.
What you describe is more an issue with break free delays as well as vate 2h going off of medium attacks, meaning you have no chance to use counterplay against it. It truly is viper 2.0
Waffennacht wrote: »My advice would be do not run a build that will die to Medium weave 2h vate type combos.
Its not just this combo, but there are many that are similar.
Again just make a build tanky enough to CC break + Dodge roll and recover.
Stop being squishy or dont expect to survive a successful burst combo
It feels like it has 70% chance to be an unbreakable too. I mean, you know, when you somehow can not break free (despite having full stamina bar). Often bugs like this occur. Streak feels like it is prone to cause this, as most often it happens when some one streak though. This happens also with other CCs, like fear, but not as often.FriedEggSandwich wrote: »-Locks the user up and has them face the wrong direction meaning no time for follow up frags if used against a good player
who knows how to break free.
master_vanargand wrote: »Best damage, best speed, best shield, best pets.
When you balance the game around proc sets you get classes that suck without proc sets. Class imbalance and the need to use proc sets to fill holes in a particular class toolkit sometimes, and in what you are suggesting, have a cause and effect relationship. I would rather remove procs than weaken class toolkits. When a class becomes too strong because procs make it's toolkit OP it is the fault of procs, not the toolkit. This is part of the problem with procs, and one of the reasons that the classes are becoming less and less unique.
Waffennacht wrote: »Its not just this combo, but there are many that are similar.
It does nothing that other stuns dont already do. Fossilize, arctic blast, mass hysteria and turn undead can all achieve the same results.
What you describe is more an issue with break free delays as well as vate 2h going off of medium attacks, meaning you have no chance to use counterplay against it. It truly is viper 2.0
Doing that consistently is not easy at all.
Name a few combos that I can't block/dodge and that doesn't require ultimate.
I disagree. Procs or not, this is a question of counterplay. All telegraphed actions should have counterplay
I'm afraid using it to burst will die off completely if it would require full heavy. Not that I will miss it or anything, but that's just a fact.
Sorc already has unblockable stun on a separate skill. Unblockable streak guarantees no counterplay to burst combos stamsorc and magsorc can do.
Crystal weapon -> Streak -> medium attack (2h vate proc) + execute combo is both undodgeable and unblockable, and opponent moves in from a decent range during execution, requires zero target setup.
And I am okay with combo really, just add counterplays. Blockable streak is counterplay. 2h vate should be blockable too btw.
I see why you want streak nerfed. You are the one shot 3 or 4 proc magblade that posted that video showcasing the build.
Streak counters your build directly.
Let's nerf streak if we agree to nerf cloak
curse - endless fury - meteor - rune cage - frags
cloak - incap (-mass hysteria) - spectral bow - vate medium - execute cancel
(deep breath) - fossilize - molten whip/vate medium - leap - execute cancel
arctic wind - shalks - dizzy - vate medium - execute cancel
blastbones - spammable - turn undead - vate medium/graveyard - execute cancel
curse - endless fury - meteor - rune cage - frags
200 ulti. Requires LOS for 4 GCDs.cloak - incap (-mass hysteria) - spectral bow - vate medium - execute cancel
120 ulti, 3 GCD - thus last part is blockable and dodgeable. Even incap is blockable and dodgeable with good internet connection if you know that NB is near.(deep breath) - fossilize - molten whip/vate medium - leap - execute cancel
Implies close range. 125 ulti, 4 GCD. Thus, leap is blockable, execute is dodgeable. And I don't even know why would you fossilize when you have leap ready, as it has stronger stun.arctic wind - shalks - dizzy - vate medium - execute cancel
Implies close range. Stuns at 3 ticks -> can be preemptively escaped. Dizzy and execute is blockable/dodgeable without stun. Dizzy + medium attack sounds incredibly slow too.blastbones - spammable - turn undead - vate medium/graveyard - execute cancel
You just made it up? I never seen anyone running turn evil on necro. Without it, the whole combo is blockable, even the blastbones.
You see, all of above have counterplays before it hits some ~20-25k damage numbers. Or requires ulti. Or both.
Now, again, I don't even mind high damage numbers on combo. Give counterplays. Even if they aren't easy ones, like blocking streak before it hits (nothing forbids to apply this combo from stealth btw, so everything you can say about cloaks applies here too).
When you balance the game around proc sets you get classes that suck without proc sets. Class imbalance and the need to use proc sets to fill holes in a particular class toolkit sometimes, and in what you are suggesting, have a cause and effect relationship. I would rather remove procs than weaken class toolkits. When a class becomes too strong because procs make it's toolkit OP it is the fault of procs, not the toolkit. This is part of the problem with procs, and one of the reasons that the classes are becoming less and less unique.
I disagree. Procs or not, this is a question of counterplay. All telegraphed actions should have counterplay - you can dodge or block snipes, you can do the same for telegraphed incap, except if it started with fear (but that reduces damage, as you don't damage with stun move). Telegraphed sorc burst can only be countered with ellusive, which means you are forced to spend GCD ahead of time, means you don't even plan to do any offensive actions for ~3 GDC, which itself leads to even worse situation.
Hint, drink a immov pot or LOS the sorc
First you say there is no counterplay, and then turn around and list a method of counterplay. You don't like the method of counterplay, but it is still there. Others have listed additional methods, immov pots, LOS, there is also the CP auto break free, and the fact that if you see them telegraphing their burst you can stun them to screw it all up and make them reset their burst, then fall back on any of the above listed methods once you have done that.
Waffennacht wrote: »Cloak into Concealed that procs Cal and Blossom that both insta hit due to melee range, guaranteeing both land as you CC break before u can dodge can be coupled with another ability.
Concealed that CCs u and procs both sets, then while u CC break hits you again. Thats over 40k TT damage b4 u can respond
Hint, drink a immov pot or LOS the sorc
There is no LOS requirement in the setup of stamsorc burst.First you say there is no counterplay, and then turn around and list a method of counterplay. You don't like the method of counterplay, but it is still there. Others have listed additional methods, immov pots, LOS, there is also the CP auto break free, and the fact that if you see them telegraphing their burst you can stun them to screw it all up and make them reset their burst, then fall back on any of the above listed methods once you have done that.
BGs are no-cp. Streak stuns you first at that range, whatever you throw at it. No LOS required, except for the streak itself.
You can't count elusive as counterplay. It is not a reactive play, elusive requires full GCD to set up and next few GCD to avoid stun. And that if enemy will streak into it at all. There is no cost of not doing so. There is no cost of streaking and throwing few spammables. There is no cost of streaking into it, throwing burst into mist, try to finish you up and streak out through you if it didn't work - you are not stun immune at that point.
Your answer makes me question if you know how to LOS.
Your answer makes me question if you know how to LOS.
When people talking about "breaking LOS", they mean "combo has 2-3 parts, I got hit with first and I break combo by breaking line of sight".
Streak combo on stam has only one component: streak. You advice me to run away and hide as soon as I see stamsorc or what?
Joy_Division wrote: »Yes.
It incentivizes the magicka sorcerer from doing something other than continually blasting away at 40 meters away in having a good skill that can (much) more reliably inflict a stun, but compels them to do what they don't want to: be in melee range and thus vulnerable to close quarters combat. It also encourages them to take this morph rather than the awful Ball of Lightning, which just makes me want to throw me computer out the window. I don;t main a sorc and I'd prefer to fight an aggressive one that takes risks, so I've been fine with Streak for the past 5 or 6 years or so.
master_vanargand wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Yes.
It incentivizes the magicka sorcerer from doing something other than continually blasting away at 40 meters away in having a good skill that can (much) more reliably inflict a stun, but compels them to do what they don't want to: be in melee range and thus vulnerable to close quarters combat. It also encourages them to take this morph rather than the awful Ball of Lightning, which just makes me want to throw me computer out the window. I don;t main a sorc and I'd prefer to fight an aggressive one that takes risks, so I've been fine with Streak for the past 5 or 6 years or so.
I disagree.
In reality, Sorcerer only keeps a favorable distance in the Streak.
In large areas like Cyrodiil and Imperial City, there is no chance of killing a Sorcerer that uses Streak properly.
master_vanargand wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Yes.
It incentivizes the magicka sorcerer from doing something other than continually blasting away at 40 meters away in having a good skill that can (much) more reliably inflict a stun, but compels them to do what they don't want to: be in melee range and thus vulnerable to close quarters combat. It also encourages them to take this morph rather than the awful Ball of Lightning, which just makes me want to throw me computer out the window. I don;t main a sorc and I'd prefer to fight an aggressive one that takes risks, so I've been fine with Streak for the past 5 or 6 years or so.
I disagree.
In reality, Sorcerer only keeps a favorable distance in the Streak.
In large areas like Cyrodiil and Imperial City, there is no chance of killing a Sorcerer that uses Streak properly.
Not true for many. I myself use streak offensively more than defensively. Yes I use it defensively, but not nearly as often as I use it offensively. As a mag sorc I use it for the stun, and it puts me momentarily in melee range if all goes well. If all does not go well I am in melee range way more than I want to be. Stam Sorcs which the OP seems more concerned with I thought primarily use BoL. Is this the result of nerfing BoL? Nerf the other morph as well?
FriedEggSandwich wrote: »-Exponential cost, so can't be spammed.
all spells have 3 beneficial effects to them. Some have 4 because 1 is a negative.
streak has too many benefits to it. Gap closer, gap maker (this and nightblade shade are the only ones in the game), unavoidable, cc, deals damage. There's 5 benefits instead of 3. You could say 4 because 1 is negative being increased cost,
butFriedEggSandwich wrote: »-Exponential cost, so can't be spammed.
streak is literally spammed in cyrodiil and bgs and everywhere, even in no-cp. Idk what cost is that but it's ignored entirely, especially when you stop for 1-2 seconds to cast a deal and regain all ur mag back.
and, even so, spell is overtuned. It needs to lose something to be in line with others. For example nb shade also has no counter, and is a gap closer and a gap maker, but does not cc you.
all spells have 3 beneficial effects to them. Some have 4 because 1 is a negative.
streak has too many benefits to it. Gap closer, gap maker (this and nightblade shade are the only ones in the game), unavoidable, cc, deals damage. There's 5 benefits instead of 3. You could say 4 because 1 is negative being increased cost,
butFriedEggSandwich wrote: »-Exponential cost, so can't be spammed.
streak is literally spammed in cyrodiil and bgs and everywhere, even in no-cp. Idk what cost is that but it's ignored entirely, especially when you stop for 1-2 seconds to cast a deal and regain all ur mag back.
and, even so, spell is overtuned. It needs to lose something to be in line with others. For example nb shade also has no counter, and is a gap closer and a gap maker, but does not cc you.
Dark Conversion provides 2400 magicka over 20 seconds. No sorc is just regaining the magicka costs for Streak in 1-2 seconds.
Streak costs around 3600 magicka at base. And increases by 33% each cast. Just 3 casts of streak has a cost in the area of 15K. Sorcs are not regaining that with one Dark Conversion. And it takes more than 3 casts of streak to get far enough away from a fight to flee. Especially when they have most likely already expended magicka during the fight they are fleeing from.
Streak costs around 3600 magicka at base. And increases by 33% each cast. Just 3 casts of streak has a cost in the area of 15K. Sorcs are not regaining that with one Dark Conversion. And it takes more than 3 casts of streak to get far enough away from a fight to flee. Especially when they have most likely already expended magicka during the fight they are fleeing from.