Maintenance for the week of February 23:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
· [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
· [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
ESO, destined to end up on Steam's f2p list to die a slow death ?
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WitchAngel✭✭✭CrimsonThomas wrote: »This game is getting rather low reviews across the board, and deservedly so.
People keep saying this, but 75 on metacritic isn't a low review across the board. Of course, the people who type up these sorts of rants will say that those reviews don't count and only some whiny types with Youtube channels that scream at their audiences are the true, for real authorities on game reviews.
If you knew anything about the business of review sites / magazines, you would know they are not to be trusted, at all.
They live from advertisement money. Those money comes from triple A games. Why do you think that triple A games ALWAYS get's much higher reviews by "pro" reviewers, than by the users.....
Well, I just told you why. I know it from first hand experience, not speculation. This IS how the business works.
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kasain✭✭✭
No Forbes.com did offer citation long ago. It has been proven. Clearly they misused the money they spent developing it though.
Edited by kasain on April 25, 2014 2:35PM0 -
Draconiuos✭✭✭
Actually, ESO is using its own engine (from what I know), and has a skill system far different than most MMOs out there. The dynamic world is far different than most MMOs I see. You also act like other companies are going to share their knowledge with a rival company. They can look at some of the things that were done wrong and try to fix them in the way they think best. No game in the history of gaming has been released bug free. Yes, we should strive for a bug free game, but should be smart enough to know we are not at that stage of tech yet.WitchAngel wrote: »@Dalexx
@Draconiuos
@Vodkaphile
@Vlas (what you mentioned happened ONCE. You make it seem like it's an everyday thing)Draconiuos wrote: »
Eve is an established MMO, that has been around a long time. When ESO gets that old than we can compare the two. There is a lot of shuffling and figuring things out in the first few months of a MMO. Especially the first one made by a company.WitchAngel wrote: »@Vodkaphile
First I would like to say that I am happy for you being accustomed and satisfied with highly bugged MMO games.
And now I will point out some areas, where one single game blow all others away.
1) Customer Service (EVE online)
2) Anti-cheat (EVE online)
3) anti "gold" spam - (EVE online)
4) Bug fixing (EVE online)
5) Inventing own mechanics (EVE online)
EVE is a perfect example of how to run an MMO.
Unfortunately, it's setting and mechanics are vastly different from all other MMO's, so even seasoned MMO veterans, will feel like complete noobs when they start up the game (and will for a very long time, as it takes a lot of time to learn about this game.)
Yeah, it's my main MMO. I keep dreaming that other companies will learn from them when creating a new game, but unfortunately....it's just a dream
The thing is....EVE had less than a handful of MMO's to learn from at launch....yeah, less than a handful. It's older than WoW.
Where as a game like TESO, has at least 50 MMO's to learn from, where as at least 10 of those being triple A titles (which EVE is/was not.)
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Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts✭✭✭
No Forbes.com did offer citation long ago. It has been proven.
And Zeni said that they didn't invest that much in the game , so it has been proven !0 -
Hadria✭✭✭✭Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »Oblongship wrote: »The OP refuses to read any positive posts or acknowledge that they are actually doing something. So I will link 2 posts showing the GM's are doing something.
Obviously my game experience contradicts what the Gm's are saying they have done. I am not the only one saying this.
Actually if you look through this thread and your other threads you'd see that it is you and only you saying this. Everyone knows they're working on it didn't you read their latest thread on the subject. Your trying so hard to hate on this game it's sad really, plus you're giving no info on how to fix anything. A lot of good you're doing.
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Schmackei✭✭
No Forbes.com did offer citation long ago. It has been proven.
Is 200 million a lot to make a game? it sounds like a lot. but is it really a lot? I guess, a large chunk would be those illustrious voice actors they got too.
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Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts✭✭✭portallib14_ESO wrote: »Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »Oblongship wrote: »The OP refuses to read any positive posts or acknowledge that they are actually doing something. So I will link 2 posts showing the GM's are doing something.
Obviously my game experience contradicts what the Gm's are saying they have done. I am not the only one saying this.
.........plus you're giving no info on how to fix anything. A lot of good you're doing.
Im not a dev , Im a customer, its not my job to fix the game. It is my job however to make sure that I am getting value for the money I spent.Edited by Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts on April 25, 2014 2:35PM1 -
Klarick✭✭✭I must say the OP is persistant lol. The sheer quantity of his constant QQ threads are quite impressive. He is one mad little fella indeed.They crawl out of their holes for me, and I die - you die.1 -
WitchAngel✭✭✭It's unfortunate that all those things are true about Eve Online and it's still such an awful game. It nearly simulates the joy of doing your taxes in space. There's a huge galaxy out there if only you can get past all the damned menus.
I know, it's a lot harder to learn than 90% of MMO's, because they have invented their own mechanics from scratch. It's not a game for people who want instant gratification, a la WoW, ESO and so on. Which is why so few people play it. Those who quit within a month, haven't even scratched the surface of the game.1 -
Schmackei✭✭I must say the OP is persistant lol. The sheer quantity of his constant QQ threads are quite impressive. He is one mad little fella indeed.
I just want to see more than 1 trick from this show pony. So far I am less than impressed with what it has been displaying so far.0 -
WitchAngel✭✭✭Draconiuos wrote: »
Actually, ESO is using its own engine (from what I know), and has a skill system far different than most MMOs out there. The dynamic world is far different than most MMOs I see. You also act like other companies are going to share their knowledge with a rival company. They can look at some of the things that were done wrong and try to fix them in the way they think best. No game in the history of gaming has been released bug free. Yes, we should strive for a bug free game, but should be smart enough to know we are not at that stage of tech yet.WitchAngel wrote: »@Dalexx
@Draconiuos
@Vodkaphile
@Vlas (what you mentioned happened ONCE. You make it seem like it's an everyday thing)Draconiuos wrote: »
Eve is an established MMO, that has been around a long time. When ESO gets that old than we can compare the two. There is a lot of shuffling and figuring things out in the first few months of a MMO. Especially the first one made by a company.WitchAngel wrote: »@Vodkaphile
First I would like to say that I am happy for you being accustomed and satisfied with highly bugged MMO games.
And now I will point out some areas, where one single game blow all others away.
1) Customer Service (EVE online)
2) Anti-cheat (EVE online)
3) anti "gold" spam - (EVE online)
4) Bug fixing (EVE online)
5) Inventing own mechanics (EVE online)
EVE is a perfect example of how to run an MMO.
Unfortunately, it's setting and mechanics are vastly different from all other MMO's, so even seasoned MMO veterans, will feel like complete noobs when they start up the game (and will for a very long time, as it takes a lot of time to learn about this game.)
Yeah, it's my main MMO. I keep dreaming that other companies will learn from them when creating a new game, but unfortunately....it's just a dream
The thing is....EVE had less than a handful of MMO's to learn from at launch....yeah, less than a handful. It's older than WoW.
Where as a game like TESO, has at least 50 MMO's to learn from, where as at least 10 of those being triple A titles (which EVE is/was not.)
The skill system is not that different. You are so just accustomed to one particular mechanic, that a slight change feels like a big one.Edited by WitchAngel on April 25, 2014 2:39PM0 -
starlizard70ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »"The game has only been out a month." is not a valid excuse. I paid money to play this game. I demand satisfaction. a refund would be acceptable.
If the game really annoys you this much, I suggest you take a break from it and go find something else you enjoy doing. And as for a refund,.. you've played a month.. no refund.
"We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."1 -
Yankee✭✭✭✭Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »"The game has only been out a month." is not a valid excuse. I paid money to play this game. I demand satisfaction. a refund would be acceptable.
I agree they should refund you, as long as they also terminate your forum account.
And I also.........oops, ran out of troll food sorry.
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Oblongship✭✭✭✭portallib14_ESO wrote: »Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »Oblongship wrote: »The OP refuses to read any positive posts or acknowledge that they are actually doing something. So I will link 2 posts showing the GM's are doing something.
Obviously my game experience contradicts what the Gm's are saying they have done. I am not the only one saying this.
Actually if you look through this thread and your other threads you'd see that it is you and only you saying this. Everyone knows they're working on it didn't you read their latest thread on the subject. Your trying so hard to hate on this game it's sad really, plus you're giving no info on how to fix anything. A lot of good you're doing.
He really is trying WAY to hard to hate the game...I even linked 2 separate threads showing GMs are actively banning botters.
Did he pay attention? NOPE he ignored that part and kept on complaining...This guy just wanted to hate on the game...He can't be taken seriously because he goal is to hate without any logic.1 -
KidKablam✭✭✭
No Forbes.com did offer citation long ago. It has been proven. Clearly they misused the money they spent developing it though.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/01/02/predicting-the-biggest-disaster-of-2014-the-elder-scrolls-online/ <--Forbes citation was the same tweet from the anonymous source that was deleted moments after posting.
(edited because I accidentally wrote "anonymouse")Edited by KidKablam on April 25, 2014 2:44PM0 -
Dalexx✭✭✭WitchAngel wrote: »The thing is....EVE had less than a handful of MMO's to learn from at launch....yeah, less than a handful. It's older than WoW.
Where as a game like TESO, has at least 50 MMO's to learn from, where as at least 10 of those being triple A titles (which EVE is/was not.)
I'm not trying to defend ZOS, but it's hard to make your MMO your way and use all the lessons learned from a MMO that is nothing like yours. In my head I have a plan on how I'm going to stop botters when I release my game. As usual, my plan solves certain botters, but the botters take their business serious and they will find better ways.
The real key is did ZOS put in enough tools in the backend so they have effective ways of catching botters. Then there is the hard truth that they have 50 things to work on with the game, to meet deadlines, some things are going to be low priority. Sure I know how EvE did it, and I want to do it. But it will take me a 8 months to create their anti-cheat system to work in my game and if something more important breaks, it will get pushed back more.
If you asked me what is more important, working quest or banning bots? I'm going to say quests first and foremost. If we have a bunch of quest that are now suddenly breaking that weren't broke on the PTS, all the attention is probably going to shift to that.
In short, I don't think ZOS is doing a bad job at all. Problem is, most seasoned MMO players want a game that is polished like their 10 year old favorite and that's probably just unrealistic on our part. The people who are probably most happy are the people who are new to the game\genre.
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The way I see it there is a few categories of gamers:
1. People who play games, like them and aren't vocal on forums (Majority)
2. People who play games, like them and are vocal (Minority)
3. People who play games, like them, but feel the need to troll forums to get people flamed up (Minority)
4. People who play games, hate them, super vocal about everything and quit with the most obnoxious series of threads. Demanding this or that. (Minority)
5. People who play games, hate them, aren't vocal and just move on (refund or not) to the next game that they may enjoy. (Minority)
I don't see many other variations, but the OP seems to be #4. I'm glad the internet allows you to make a scene without any personal implications to your dust up.
People will always try to get stuff for free, and within the last few years, it seems that the easiest way to get awesome games for free is to kick up the most annoying stream of threads and comments to get your way.
What do you even gain, but creating this thread? Personal satisfaction a couple years later saying: " I told you so?" great.
Toktok - Vet8 Orc Templar - 2 Hand, Medium/Heavy Armor Grunt - Blacksmith/Clothier/Enchanter/Alchemist0 -
Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts✭✭✭
Whats that mean ? Are you making threats to my personal well being ?oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »T
. I'm glad the internet allows you to make a scene without any personal implications to your dust up.
Edited by Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts on April 25, 2014 2:45PM0 -
WitchAngel✭✭✭WitchAngel wrote: »The thing is....EVE had less than a handful of MMO's to learn from at launch....yeah, less than a handful. It's older than WoW.
Where as a game like TESO, has at least 50 MMO's to learn from, where as at least 10 of those being triple A titles (which EVE is/was not.)
I'm not trying to defend ZOS, but it's hard to make your MMO your way and use all the lessons learned from a MMO that is nothing like yours. In my head I have a plan on how I'm going to stop botters when I release my game. As usual, my plan solves certain botters, but the botters take their business serious and they will find better ways.
The real key is did ZOS put in enough tools in the backend so they have effective ways of catching botters. Then there is the hard truth that they have 50 things to work on with the game, to meet deadlines, some things are going to be low priority. Sure I know how EvE did it, and I want to do it. But it will take me a 8 months to create their anti-cheat system to work in my game and if something more important breaks, it will get pushed back more.
If you asked me what is more important, working quest or banning bots? I'm going to say quests first and foremost. If we have a bunch of quest that are now suddenly breaking that weren't broke on the PTS, all the attention is probably going to shift to that.
In short, I don't think ZOS is doing a bad job at all. Problem is, most seasoned MMO players want a game that is polished like their 10 year old favorite and that's probably just unrealistic on our part. The people who are probably most happy are the people who are new to the game\genre.
They are alot like each others. ESO didn't renew the genre, at all. They made small alterations, which to people who are very accustomed to one mechanic, feels like a big one. I already said this once. It has WAY more in common with WoW, than not when you realize it.Edited by WitchAngel on April 25, 2014 2:45PM0 -
RedegausSoul ShrivenBlu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »Im not a dev , Im a customer, its not my job to fix the game. It is my job however to make sure that I am getting value for the money I spent.
Nope, that's not your job either! You can usually tell - someone would be paying you.
(Governments don't count)
I'm just impressed and thankful for all the people posting positive feedback in this thread, as my experience so far has been far better than I'd ever have expected from a game of this type. Sandbox RPG's in general are plagued by bugs, MMO's even more so - and ESO is doing it better than many established titles by a long shot.
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Draconiuos✭✭✭WitchAngel wrote: »Draconiuos wrote: »
Actually, ESO is using its own engine (from what I know), and has a skill system far different than most MMOs out there. The dynamic world is far different than most MMOs I see. You also act like other companies are going to share their knowledge with a rival company. They can look at some of the things that were done wrong and try to fix them in the way they think best. No game in the history of gaming has been released bug free. Yes, we should strive for a bug free game, but should be smart enough to know we are not at that stage of tech yet.WitchAngel wrote: »@Dalexx
@Draconiuos
@Vodkaphile
@Vlas (what you mentioned happened ONCE. You make it seem like it's an everyday thing)Draconiuos wrote: »
Eve is an established MMO, that has been around a long time. When ESO gets that old than we can compare the two. There is a lot of shuffling and figuring things out in the first few months of a MMO. Especially the first one made by a company.WitchAngel wrote: »@Vodkaphile
First I would like to say that I am happy for you being accustomed and satisfied with highly bugged MMO games.
And now I will point out some areas, where one single game blow all others away.
1) Customer Service (EVE online)
2) Anti-cheat (EVE online)
3) anti "gold" spam - (EVE online)
4) Bug fixing (EVE online)
5) Inventing own mechanics (EVE online)
EVE is a perfect example of how to run an MMO.
Unfortunately, it's setting and mechanics are vastly different from all other MMO's, so even seasoned MMO veterans, will feel like complete noobs when they start up the game (and will for a very long time, as it takes a lot of time to learn about this game.)
Yeah, it's my main MMO. I keep dreaming that other companies will learn from them when creating a new game, but unfortunately....it's just a dream
The thing is....EVE had less than a handful of MMO's to learn from at launch....yeah, less than a handful. It's older than WoW.
Where as a game like TESO, has at least 50 MMO's to learn from, where as at least 10 of those being triple A titles (which EVE is/was not.)
The skill system is not that different. You are so just accustomed to one particular mechanic, that a slight change feels like a big one.
Actually, I have played and still playing many different MMOs. I have played Eve through to EQ1 before the Shadows of Luclin xpac. The Secret World runs an even more free formed skill system than ESO. Guild Wars 1 and 2 run a similar system, but are also different in their own rights. Games like World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, RFO, etc. run very similar skill systems to each other, but not so much similar to ESO or the game mentioned above. Eve itself is so vastly different it can't really be compared to anything expect for EQ1 back in the day.
Edited by Draconiuos on April 25, 2014 2:51PM0 -
Oblongship✭✭✭✭Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »Im not a dev , Im a customer, its not my job to fix the game. It is my job however to make sure that I am getting value for the money I spent.
Nope, that's not your job either! You can usually tell - someone would be paying you.
(Governments don't count)
I'm just impressed and thankful for all the people posting positive feedback in this thread, as my experience so far has been far better than I'd ever have expected from a game of this type. Sandbox RPG's in general are plagued by bugs, MMO's even more so - and ESO is doing it better than many established titles by a long shot.
100% agree man, I have been through some rough launches...I can still see them when I close my eyes!
So far yeah there are bugs but it has been a pretty smooth launch...not even a month in and seeing the dramatic improvements we have makes me very happy.0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
True, especially about Eve, but they seem to have skipped key lessons on games that are not that dissimilar (apart from setting). Like how they keep asking us for our secret question answer, which via email isn't too unreasonable, but there have been case of them asking for it over whispers, which is unreasonable.I'm not trying to defend ZOS, but it's hard to make your MMO your way and use all the lessons learned from a MMO that is nothing like yours. In my head I have a plan on how I'm going to stop botters when I release my game. As usual, my plan solves certain botters, but the botters take their business serious and they will find better ways.
This is true, which is why I've been saying on a number of threads give them some time before you condemnIn short, I don't think ZOS is doing a bad job at all. Problem is, most seasoned MMO players want a game that is polished like their 10 year old favorite and that's probably just unrealistic on our part. The people who are probably most happy are the people who are new to the game\genre.
People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »
Whats that mean ? Are you making threats to my personal well being ?oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »T
. I'm glad the internet allows you to make a scene without any personal implications to your dust up.
It means that you can lie down on the ground and kick you feet and cry and whine on the internet and nobody cares. In the general public, this is frowned upon, because in society we try to be civilized individuals all working within a norm.
The people who get in to arguments with companies over trivial things just waste a lot of time and energy for everyone and think that their self serving ways are justified because they have a greater sense of self entitlement then the general masses.
Basically your human nature causes you to be resist the idea that something made for the generic public could ever be good enough for your own personalized tastes/liking/opinions.Toktok - Vet8 Orc Templar - 2 Hand, Medium/Heavy Armor Grunt - Blacksmith/Clothier/Enchanter/Alchemist0 -
Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts✭✭✭oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »
Whats that mean ? Are you making threats to my personal well being ?oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »T
. I'm glad the internet allows you to make a scene without any personal implications to your dust up.
It means that you can lie down on the ground and kick you feet and cry and whine on the internet and nobody cares. In the general public, this is frowned upon, because in society we try to be civilized individuals all working within a norm.
The people who get in to arguments with companies over trivial things just waste a lot of time and energy for everyone and think that their self serving ways are justified because they have a greater sense of self entitlement then the general masses.
Basically your human nature causes you to be resist the idea that something made for the generic public could ever be good enough for your own personalized tastes/liking/opinions.
Ty for your opinion.
Edited by Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts on April 25, 2014 2:51PM0 -
Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »
Whats that mean ? Are you making threats to my personal well being ?oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »T
. I'm glad the internet allows you to make a scene without any personal implications to your dust up.
It means that you can lie down on the ground and kick you feet and cry and whine on the internet and nobody cares. In the general public, this is frowned upon, because in society we try to be civilized individuals all working within a norm.
The people who get in to arguments with companies over trivial things just waste a lot of time and energy for everyone and think that their self serving ways are justified because they have a greater sense of self entitlement then the general masses.
Basically your human nature causes you to be resist the idea that something made for the generic public could ever be good enough for your own personalized tastes/liking/opinions.
Ty for adding absolutely zero value to the topic of the thread, flagged.
Exactly.Edited by oxygen_boarderb16_ESO on April 25, 2014 2:52PMToktok - Vet8 Orc Templar - 2 Hand, Medium/Heavy Armor Grunt - Blacksmith/Clothier/Enchanter/Alchemist1 -
Posts like this have no real substance other then to create flame wars. People have been saying this before beta, during beta and now after beta. They say this about every MMO starting that I can recall..
In every one of these posts nothing really of value comes from them.. You will always have people that do not like the game, some okay with the game and others that love the game.
The game can be perfect and you will still have these 3 camps of people. You can't please everyone hence the reason you have different game types and genre's. In the MMO space you have different ways MMO's have been designed, so take your pick find one that fits you more and go play it.
ESO like all MMO's needs work and polishing, so what.. For me I am willing to wait for the changes and fixes.. Others are not, does this mean it is destined for failure..
Afraid to burst your bubble.. But just off of sales alone plus the console sales they will get will already gain them a profit, so from a business standpoint it is not a failure, even if it completely fails in one year.. The investors made a profit and thus a success.. Maybe as a player you feel it failed but in reality it made money.
The only true MMO's that "FAIL" are the ones that never make it out of production or die quickly after release, mostly by independent developers taking risks.. Why well because all their money and hard work never got a pay out for that time and effort, unfortunately.. I feel for some of them but still respect them for they try and do things the market has not seen in most cases, it is only good for the market and genre.0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Flag away, his points were valid, although not complementary.Blu3d0gd3m0cr8ts wrote: »Ty for adding absolutely zero value to the topic of the thread, flagged.
Doubt the Mods will do anything.
People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0
This discussion has been closed.