Dear ZOS, Please Don't Ruin The Game For Roleplayers With 12 Person Group Limit
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Angelisaur✭✭✭Just this past month, an enormous RP campaign concluded that had spanned several weeks as well as several guilds. It was a thrill to be a part of and an incredible feat to organize, as not only were housing plots utilized, but many overland sites as well. Undertakings of this scale will be made virtually impossible if group size is permanently constrained to 12. Hell, for this campaign, even the 24 person limit was too small at times, and organizers had to coordinate between pairs of groups. I can't begin to articulate how much shrinking this limit even further would hurt our capacity to tell our stories. ESO is one of the most generous and robust MMOs out there in regards to roleplay tools, and I strongly urge the devs to help keep it that way. It really hurts to think that these kinds of epic cross-community sagas might be forever gone if this change goes live.4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know how chat works in PC (if at all) but on console guilds have 4 channels that people can use to chat to each other within the guild without being grouped together. Guild chat is an existing thing. I don't know if it has a max number of ppl on it though.
And you can keep people together by travelling to a player via guild roster. So you could have multiple groups of 12 and still chat to each other and travel to each other. Yeah, it's an absolute pain in the rear but it's not like it's entirely stopped you from having over 12 people RP together.
Best case, they don't change it and it stays at 24. Worst case, there's easy enough work arounds.
On PC there is one guild chat for everyone in the guild. For open areas, there is Zone, Say, Yell, and Emote. There is also a zone for specific languages but all of this can be viewed by anyone. They are public channels except for guild which is private for up to 500 people.
The question I have, is there anything in-game to support roleplayers other than grouping?
I meant chat as in a talking channel, not the on screen text box. Hence "on console guilds have 4 channels that people can use to chat to each other within the guild without being grouped together". Channels. Chat channels. To talk to each other. With voices.
Unlike Console, PC does not have built in voice comms in ESO.
So guilds would have to use outside programs. Maybe for some guilds this isn't a problem, since many guilds already use Discord or Team Speak. However, if a guild hasn't been using that, or guildies aren't comfortable with it, it's not a great switch from the status quo of Group Chat.3 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hands0medevil wrote: »this is how the current situation looks like for someone who is constantly nerfed:
when they nerf pvpers, we don't care, it doesn't apply to us
when they nerf pvers, we don't care, it doesn't apply to us
when they constantly nerf endgame, we don't care, it doesn't apply to us
when they nerf CP, we don't care, it doesn't apply to us
when they disable 90% of sets in cyro, we don't care, it doesn't apply to us
when they reduce group size in cyro, we don't care, it doesn't apply to us
when they reduce global group size, there is no one else to care
so, welcome to our world of constant nerfs uncertainty and unbalance
@hands0medevil You realise that most roleplayers do those things too? And this ruins things for more than just roleplayers? Any kind of social gathering for a guild will be harder.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!2 -
dotme✭✭✭✭✭
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It didn't. Most of us are lagging as hard as ever... but given the limited number of people with the time and patience to lead groups, PvP in some cases has become a mix of guild-only exclusive groups and 30 or so solo/random players typing "lfg" in zone chat...VaranisArano wrote: »If it turns out that the change in Cyrodiil revealed that game performance noticeably improves when group size is reduced to 12...
PS4NA2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
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It didn't. Most of us are lagging as hard as ever... but given the limited number of people with the time and patience to lead groups, PvP in some cases has become a mix of guild-only exclusive groups and 30 or so solo/random players typing "lfg" in zone chat...VaranisArano wrote: »If it turns out that the change in Cyrodiil revealed that game performance noticeably improves when group size is reduced to 12...
I think, he was being sarcastic.1 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭I haven't RPed in many years but this is a tremendous set back for RP guilds who do coordinated improv. There is more than one type of player who plays this game. RP guilds are the ones who almost never complain please Zos find away that this will not affect these groups of players who also support the game by subscribing and buying.1 -
VoidCommander✭✭✭✭✭Given that this change to 12 players max is likely only to hush up the PvPers complaints about Cryodiil Group size, this is a very stupid and unnecessary change. There are no developer comments stating anything like "this is to help with lag" or anything, which usually means that it is a change no one in the playerbase will benefit from.2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can well understand (and totally support) the case put by role-players, but the argument put forward by others that they need groups larger than 12 in order to help new players with e.g. skyshards, dolmens, world bosses and achievements etc sounds like complete nonsense to me.1 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can well understand (and totally support) the case put by role-players, but the argument put forward by others that they need groups larger than 12 in order to help new players with e.g. skyshards, dolmens, world bosses and achievements etc sounds like complete nonsense to me.
Why nonsense? It is for exactly the same reasons as the RP contingent is putting forth. Social aspects of the game and the ability to be together in it. 2-4 groups = 2-4 different instances, even in overland. If all you consider is hunting, than sure, but a seriously large percentage of the players in ESO do more than simply hunt and kill things in the content. Many guilds use addons like Farming Party to help with their events, whether it be for Harvest Parties, Scavenger Hunts or whatnot, this change destroys those events, which were already problematic at 24 member groups in any guild that has high participation (2 of mine generally do).
Personally I would love to see the 24 person max group removed across all content. Delves, trials, public dungeons all already have a max number of players allowed to enter, which completely addresses any issues in those settings, so why impose a limit at all on how many people want to group together for social events?2 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can well understand (and totally support) the case put by role-players, but the argument put forward by others that they need groups larger than 12 in order to help new players with e.g. skyshards, dolmens, world bosses and achievements etc sounds like complete nonsense to me.
It’s 100% needed.
Our wb runs, which span three guilds, generally have 18+ people. And we run multiple groups at different times of the day.
There fun and a great social experience.2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wow, they did not think this one through. I'm now thinking of all the RP events I've been in that used grouping and for the bigger ones this would absolutely kill them both open world and in homes.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭Lowering the limit for groups is a great idea. In places like Cyrodil zerg balls have been an issue for over 7 years now and helped contribute a lot to the lag in PvP.0
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Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lowering the limit for groups is a great idea. In places like Cyrodil zerg balls have been an issue for over 7 years now and helped contribute a lot to the lag in PvP.
Umm.. Cyrodill group limits were lowered to 12 quite a while back, it changed nothing and arguably, made things worst.5 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭Lowering the limit for groups is a great idea. In places like Cyrodil zerg balls have been an issue for over 7 years now and helped contribute a lot to the lag in PvP.
Umm.. Cyrodill group limits were lowered to 12 quite a while back, it changed nothing and arguably, made things worst.
That was just an example. I believe Cyrodil groups should be lowered to 4 man imo though.1 -
hexnotic✭✭✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
That would help RP guilds, I suppose. But keeping track of everyone during a wb run would still be an issue, as would quest sharing.1 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
That would help RP guilds, I suppose. But keeping track of everyone during a wb run would still be an issue, as would quest sharing.
It just means that better coordination is needed between two or more group leaders. I don't see this being a problem for players i.e. guilds with Discord voice chat.0 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
This is basic chat functionality MMO's had 20+ years ago. The ability to create custom channels and make them public or private is pretty old school. ESO has what is arguably the worst chat interface of any game I have played, heck, they even fade it out constantly and erase it if you reloadui, get disconnected, etc! Luckily, addons like rChat & pChat fill the gap and bring it at least to the level of being usable.2 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
This is basic chat functionality MMO's had 20+ years ago. The ability to create custom channels and make them public or private is pretty old school. ESO has what is arguably the worst chat interface of any game I have played, heck, they even fade it out constantly and erase it if you reloadui, get disconnected, etc! Luckily, addons like rChat & pChat fill the gap and bring it at least to the level of being usable.
Oh wow, are you a newer gamer?1 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
This is basic chat functionality MMO's had 20+ years ago. The ability to create custom channels and make them public or private is pretty old school. ESO has what is arguably the worst chat interface of any game I have played, heck, they even fade it out constantly and erase it if you reloadui, get disconnected, etc! Luckily, addons like rChat & pChat fill the gap and bring it at least to the level of being usable.
Oh wow, are you a newer gamer?
What? Are you actually saying ESO has a decent chat interface?
But to answer your question let's see, Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EQ Alpha... I think I may have been around a while and I have at least tried, almost every MMO that has come out in the last 24 years or so.
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Anonx31st✭✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
This is basic chat functionality MMO's had 20+ years ago. The ability to create custom channels and make them public or private is pretty old school. ESO has what is arguably the worst chat interface of any game I have played, heck, they even fade it out constantly and erase it if you reloadui, get disconnected, etc! Luckily, addons like rChat & pChat fill the gap and bring it at least to the level of being usable.
Oh wow, are you a newer gamer?
What? Are you actually saying ESO has a decent chat interface?
But to answer your question let's see, Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EQ Alpha... I think I may have been around a while and I have at least tried, almost every MMO that has come out in the last 24 years or so.
Oh nice! I started with Ultimate Online myself then went to straight to EQ1. So what features from those two MMORPG's do you feel ESO is lacking and should implement?0 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
That would help RP guilds, I suppose. But keeping track of everyone during a wb run would still be an issue, as would quest sharing.
It just means that better coordination is needed between two or more group leaders. I don't see this being a problem for players i.e. guilds with Discord voice chat.
Keeping track of everyone is already like hearding kittens. And not everyone feels comfortable talking on discord. So why make things harder on guilds events?
No this is just an awful and unneeded change.3 -
Anonx31st✭✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
That would help RP guilds, I suppose. But keeping track of everyone during a wb run would still be an issue, as would quest sharing.
It just means that better coordination is needed between two or more group leaders. I don't see this being a problem for players i.e. guilds with Discord voice chat.
Keeping track of everyone is already like hearding kittens. And not everyone feels comfortable talking on discord. So why make things harder on guilds events?
No this is just an awful and unneeded change.
Oh that was just an example. In-game text or just following crown has always worked before.0 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
This is basic chat functionality MMO's had 20+ years ago. The ability to create custom channels and make them public or private is pretty old school. ESO has what is arguably the worst chat interface of any game I have played, heck, they even fade it out constantly and erase it if you reloadui, get disconnected, etc! Luckily, addons like rChat & pChat fill the gap and bring it at least to the level of being usable.
Oh wow, are you a newer gamer?
What? Are you actually saying ESO has a decent chat interface?
But to answer your question let's see, Ultima Online, Meridian 59, EQ Alpha... I think I may have been around a while and I have at least tried, almost every MMO that has come out in the last 24 years or so.
Oh nice! I started with Ultimate Online myself then went to straight to EQ1. So what features from those two MMORPG's do you feel ESO is lacking and should implement?
Consequences
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BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
That would help RP guilds, I suppose. But keeping track of everyone during a wb run would still be an issue, as would quest sharing.
It just means that better coordination is needed between two or more group leaders. I don't see this being a problem for players i.e. guilds with Discord voice chat.
Keeping track of everyone is already like hearding kittens. And not everyone feels comfortable talking on discord. So why make things harder on guilds events?
No this is just an awful and unneeded change.
Oh that was just an example. In-game text or just following crown has always worked before.
In game text is what we use, but now we won't be able to as it crosses multiple groups. NOR can we follow the crown if they are not in your group. AND the crown will no long be able to keep track of people who are off line, or had to pause quick because one of their children needed something, etc.
That's the point. With everyone in the same group communication and understanding what is happening with the group is much easier.1 -
Mahabahabtha✭✭✭✭✭So ZOS is doing now everything possible to make ESO a single Player Game....HOORAY maybe with Update 33 we all will get Elder Scrolls 6 on PTS ....."In fact, I’ve met more PVEers that are worse at PvE than PvPers."4 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
That would help RP guilds, I suppose. But keeping track of everyone during a wb run would still be an issue, as would quest sharing.
It just means that better coordination is needed between two or more group leaders. I don't see this being a problem for players i.e. guilds with Discord voice chat.
Keeping track of everyone is already like hearding kittens. And not everyone feels comfortable talking on discord. So why make things harder on guilds events?
No this is just an awful and unneeded change.
Oh that was just an example. In-game text or just following crown has always worked before.
Only group members can see the Crown or read the group chat. So now, that's a max of 12 people, where before, it was 24 people.
So, yes, that's exactly the problem facing guilds now!Edited by VaranisArano on April 21, 2021 1:05AM3 -
Mahabahabtha✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »maybe zos could add some kind of qol chat option where a person can open up a private chatbox and invite all of the people who are involved in the event? there could be a chat page for that group that shows the location of players etc. i’m probably making too much of a reach here but there’s gotta be some kind of further chatbox implementation that could remedy this?
That would help RP guilds, I suppose. But keeping track of everyone during a wb run would still be an issue, as would quest sharing.
It just means that better coordination is needed between two or more group leaders. I don't see this being a problem for players i.e. guilds with Discord voice chat.
Keeping track of everyone is already like hearding kittens. And not everyone feels comfortable talking on discord. So why make things harder on guilds events?
No this is just an awful and unneeded change.
Oh that was just an example. In-game text or just following crown has always worked before.
Only group members can see the Crown or read the group chat. So now, that's a max of 12 people, where before, it was 24 people.
So, yes, that's exactly the problem facing guilds now!
And Guild Chat ???
"In fact, I’ve met more PVEers that are worse at PvE than PvPers."0 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing to keep in mind, for people saying to just emote and not use group chat, saying to use multiple groups to get around it:
When you are staging a rp in a scene and have people at different locations on a map, like up a hill, or on some terrain, or in a building, you have to be in emote range or you do not see the emoted text in zone.
It kills it all around because you can't see it in group unless you're in the group emoting or copy/pasting with Pchat from the person emoting, and it's lame....Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!1
