How can 3D map pin mods be legal? They replace skills

miteba · April 2021

TwinLamps wrote: »

Why cant we have nice things
Why are people so much against nice things
Why must every aspect of game be struggle for some people

We live in a curious, inovative and creative world... everyday a new kind of art blossoms!
This thread is an example of that: destructive art, which has its phylosophy in searching new ways to destroy nice things...

Elo106 · April 2021

Dont you have to harvest that spot once to make it show up? So it remembers spots for you instead of showing them?
Or can you just show all/ download the locations?

Jaimeh · April 2021

marshill88 wrote: »

I spent skill points on having nodes highlighted. I downloaded the most popular map-pin mod called "harvest map" because I wanted to see where treasure chests were. First time I used it I saw that the chests themselves on the surface of the world had in-map 3 dimensional pins hovering over them. This rendered my skill I spent points on in Scrying (to have treasure chests glowing) completely useless. I don't see how this is allowable. It certainly feels like this mod is hacking the game client as it completely disrupts and makes irrelevant in game skill points.

Isn't a mod that replaces skill points taking it too far? ZOS, would you like to comment on why these mods are allowable?

Console doesn't have addons, so for them these skills are still very relevant, and even for pc players, who don't want to use them for whatever reason. I personally can't use harvest map because I have ping and fps issues, and it makes my game performance worse. Plus, the addon shows all locations that a node has been found, but it doesn't mean than the node will be spawned when you get there, whereas the skill always lights up existing nodes. I know what you mean OP, but I don't think the skills are inferior.

Kwoung · April 2021

Jaimeh wrote: »

marshill88 wrote: »

I spent skill points on having nodes highlighted. I downloaded the most popular map-pin mod called "harvest map" because I wanted to see where treasure chests were. First time I used it I saw that the chests themselves on the surface of the world had in-map 3 dimensional pins hovering over them. This rendered my skill I spent points on in Scrying (to have treasure chests glowing) completely useless. I don't see how this is allowable. It certainly feels like this mod is hacking the game client as it completely disrupts and makes irrelevant in game skill points.

Isn't a mod that replaces skill points taking it too far? ZOS, would you like to comment on why these mods are allowable?

Console doesn't have addons, so for them these skills are still very relevant, and even for pc players, who don't want to use them for whatever reason. I personally can't use harvest map because I have ping and fps issues, and it makes my game performance worse. Plus, the addon shows all locations that a node has been found, but it doesn't mean than the node will be spawned when you get there, whereas the skill always lights up existing nodes. I know what you mean OP, but I don't think the skills are inferior.

Actually, not with Chests, Heavy Sacks or Thieve Troves, but Harvest Map can be configured to only show spawned material nodes. It is not overly accurate and may cause no nodes to be shown, or bad info about nodes, so it is far from perfect, but if you are farming for mats for a while, it eventually catches up and is "mostly" correct. Nothing replaces actually knowing the spawn points and checking though, not even the passives that light them up, because those are only really useful at night, which this game has very little of.

KalyanLazair · April 2021

marshill88 wrote: »

I knew when posting this post that I would be voraciously countered, of course I knew.

Honestly, because you've been playing for two months and you've only come up with ludicrous ideas to change the game and gameplay of every one of us that have been playing for YEARS. Forgive us if we don't applaud you.

I do not know the addon you're talking about, as I do not use it. I use MapPins, and quiet frankly, I'd rather keep using it, if only because it makes harvesting the Treasure Maps and the Surveys so much easier and less like a drag. It was fun for a while not using it, but when I've spent half an hour walking around the same area looking for a survey location, having to google it out of sheer frustration. well, that got old quiet fast. I don't use the glowing passives either because I used them on one character and they were mostly useless. Perhaps the only one I find somewhat useful is the alchemy one because some plants can hide really well between vegetation. I haven't tried out the chest one though.

Even not using the passives nor any addon that points at node locations, I've harvested enough crafting mats to fit you all several times over. The game is already HUGE, and when I say HUGE I mean HUMONGOUS. There is so much to do you can't possibly do everything on a single day. I work, like many of the people here, so lets not turn the game into a second job, yes?

Have you considered that maybe this is not the game for you? Because you wanted to have destructible armor, then trade horses, and now this, and you usually point at how other games do it better. ESO is very casual, and that's what I like about it, that I can sit back and relax. Perhaps your gameplay style is more suited to games like EVE Online or World of Tanks.

hafgood · April 2021

OP should just join us on console where we don't have addons. Problem solved, no one can be accused of exploiting or cheating by using addons, much safer environment for him

SirAndy · April 2021

Before ESO supported AddOns, i had printed maps of the zones where i would mark chests, quests, nodes etc.

Since today's mapping AddOns basically do the same thing and this clearly gave me an advantage over people who didn't do this, would y'all consider a paper and a pen cheating too?

danno8 · April 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

marshill88 wrote: »

I spent skill points on having nodes highlighted. I downloaded the most popular map-pin mod called "harvest map" because I wanted to see where treasure chests were. First time I used it I saw that the chests themselves on the surface of the world had in-map 3 dimensional pins hovering over them. This rendered my skill I spent points on in Scrying (to have treasure chests glowing) completely useless. I don't see how this is allowable. It certainly feels like this mod is hacking the game client as it completely disrupts and makes irrelevant in game skill points.

Isn't a mod that replaces skill points taking it too far? ZOS, would you like to comment on why these mods are allowable?

Console doesn't have addons, so for them these skills are still very relevant, and even for pc players, who don't want to use them for whatever reason. I personally can't use harvest map because I have ping and fps issues, and it makes my game performance worse. Plus, the addon shows all locations that a node has been found, but it doesn't mean than the node will be spawned when you get there, whereas the skill always lights up existing nodes. I know what you mean OP, but I don't think the skills are inferior.

Actually, not with Chests, Heavy Sacks or Thieve Troves, but Harvest Map can be configured to only show spawned material nodes. It is not overly accurate and may cause no nodes to be shown, or bad info about nodes, so it is far from perfect, but if you are farming for mats for a while, it eventually catches up and is "mostly" correct. Nothing replaces actually knowing the spawn points and checking though, not even the passives that light them up, because those are only really useful at night, which this game has very little of.

Yah it's a new-ish feature that a lot of people in this thread don't seem to know about.

So to sum up:

-Harvestmap can be used to show nodes that you have never found by simply downloading the database
-it can also be configured to show only nodes that have respawned (new feature)
-is vastly better than the in-game "Keen-Eye" passives

Let's not pretend or lie to our selves about this.

HOWEVER, it has virtually no effect on your game if you choose to not use it since most people have an ABUNDANCE of skill points and resource nodes are insanely plentiful in this game. You can barely mount your horse before you are tripping over another resource node.

Even if it was removed other programs (like TACO in GW2) can provide an in-game overlay outside of the game that is simply a freestanding program that doesn't hack the game or alter the code or anything and would still provide nearly the same functionality.

You simply can't stop people from sharing information and making maps, so just give it a rest.

KalyanLazair · April 2021

SirAndy wrote: »

Before ESO supported AddOns, i had printed maps of the zones where i would mark chests, quests, nodes etc.

Since today's mapping AddOns basically do the same thing and this clearly gave me an advantage over people who didn't do this, would y'all consider a paper and a pen cheating too?

I have a two monitor setup that I've been using to find treasure map locations easily, get info on whatever I was doing at the time or display maps. I've also been keeping doc and excels for recipes I'd gathered and on which characters, and plenty of other information. Addons have made things a lot easier for me.

jircris11 · April 2021

marshill88 wrote: »

I spent skill points on having nodes highlighted. I downloaded the most popular map-pin mod called "harvest map" because I wanted to see where treasure chests were. First time I used it I saw that the chests themselves on the surface of the world had in-map 3 dimensional pins hovering over them. This rendered my skill I spent points on in Scrying (to have treasure chests glowing) completely useless. I don't see how this is allowable. It certainly feels like this mod is hacking the game client as it completely disrupts and makes irrelevant in game skill points.

Isn't a mod that replaces skill points taking it too far? ZOS, would you like to comment on why these mods are allowable?

As mentioned the add on gives potential spawn points.

Nastassiya · April 2021

Some people feel they just need complain about anything and everything that does not effect them in the slightest. Just reset your points and use the mod or do not use the mod and keep the skill points. Someone else using the mod does not hurt you in the slightest. Each map has like 1000 nodes and you can't tell if it's someone using the addon or the skill points when they race to a node. Your gameplay isn't effected at all.

Kiralyn2000 · April 2021

Starlock wrote: »

Reasons why I would never play this game on a computer. I don't mind cheat codes in single-player games, but in multiplayer games? Nah.

Ok, I'll remove Harvest Map, and replace it with that amazing "cheat code" called... marking down notes on paper.

Because, yeah - that's what/how I use Harvest Map. It remembers where I've found nodes. The same thing I could do by printing out maps of each zone, and putting a little mark on it when I find one. So Harvest Map saves me a bunch of printer ink, and a bit of time.
edit: which is also how I used Gatherer, back in WoW in 2010.

Gosh, what a cheat.

(question - do you consider all UI addons to be "cheat codes"? Even, say, a better on-screen clock? Or "keeps track of what's in your alt's inventory" addons?
Oh, and do you also consider Wikis to be cheating? How about build guides? Let's Play videos of dungeon boss fights?)

...and yes, my characters still use some of the Keen Eye perks. Cloth & herbs, mostly. The rest of the things that get highlighted are pretty obvious without Keen Eye.

Kwoung · April 2021

danno8 wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

marshill88 wrote: »

I spent skill points on having nodes highlighted. I downloaded the most popular map-pin mod called "harvest map" because I wanted to see where treasure chests were. First time I used it I saw that the chests themselves on the surface of the world had in-map 3 dimensional pins hovering over them. This rendered my skill I spent points on in Scrying (to have treasure chests glowing) completely useless. I don't see how this is allowable. It certainly feels like this mod is hacking the game client as it completely disrupts and makes irrelevant in game skill points.

Isn't a mod that replaces skill points taking it too far? ZOS, would you like to comment on why these mods are allowable?

Console doesn't have addons, so for them these skills are still very relevant, and even for pc players, who don't want to use them for whatever reason. I personally can't use harvest map because I have ping and fps issues, and it makes my game performance worse. Plus, the addon shows all locations that a node has been found, but it doesn't mean than the node will be spawned when you get there, whereas the skill always lights up existing nodes. I know what you mean OP, but I don't think the skills are inferior.

Actually, not with Chests, Heavy Sacks or Thieve Troves, but Harvest Map can be configured to only show spawned material nodes. It is not overly accurate and may cause no nodes to be shown, or bad info about nodes, so it is far from perfect, but if you are farming for mats for a while, it eventually catches up and is "mostly" correct. Nothing replaces actually knowing the spawn points and checking though, not even the passives that light them up, because those are only really useful at night, which this game has very little of.

Yah it's a new-ish feature that a lot of people in this thread don't seem to know about.

So to sum up:

-Harvestmap can be used to show nodes that you have never found by simply downloading the database
-it can also be configured to show only nodes that have respawned (new feature)
-is vastly better than the in-game "Keen-Eye" passives

Let's not pretend or lie to our selves about this.

HOWEVER, it has virtually no effect on your game if you choose to not use it since most people have an ABUNDANCE of skill points and resource nodes are insanely plentiful in this game. You can barely mount your horse before you are tripping over another resource node.

Even if it was removed other programs (like TACO in GW2) can provide an in-game overlay outside of the game that is simply a freestanding program that doesn't hack the game or alter the code or anything and would still provide nearly the same functionality.

You simply can't stop people from sharing information and making maps, so just give it a rest.

Yes, it is way better than the Keen Eye passives in Craft tree for spotting where nodes are (and when working, if spawned), but the OP's issue is with it rendering the Keen Eye: Treasure Chests skill from the Excavation line useless. Which IMHO it doesn't even come close to doing. Even his example screenshot was a chest simply laying there, out in the open on the side of the road... a chest even someone with zero skill or no addons or passives could easily spot. Had he been showing one of those Deeshan Chests, way up on the ledge of a ruins you need to run around the entire ruin to access and can't even see until you get up there, but can easily spot from the ground with Keen Eye, he probably wouldn't have even posted.

I have been using Harvest Map for a very long time... and when I earned Keen Eye: Treasure Chests... it was a game changer!

GreenHere · April 2021

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Reasons why I would never play this game on a computer. I don't mind cheat codes in single-player games, but in multiplayer games? Nah.

Ok, I'll remove Harvest Map, and replace it with that amazing "cheat code" called... marking down notes on paper.

Because, yeah - that's what/how I use Harvest Map. It remembers where I've found nodes. The same thing I could do by printing out maps of each zone, and putting a little mark on it when I find one. So Harvest Map saves me a bunch of printer ink, and a bit of time.
edit: which is also how I used Gatherer, back in WoW in 2010.

Gosh, what a cheat.

(question - do you consider all UI addons to be "cheat codes"? Even, say, a better on-screen clock? Or "keeps track of what's in your alt's inventory" addons?
Oh, and do you also consider Wikis to be cheating? How about build guides?)

...and yes, my characters still use some of the Keen Eye perks. Cloth & herbs, mostly. The rest of the things that get highlighted are pretty obvious without Keen Eye.

Wait a minute, did you just openly admit to using an addon to keep track of TIME?! Clock addons are cheats of the scummiest order! HACKER ALERT!!

REPORTED!

*this post is made in jest, just to be clear

KalyanLazair · April 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Reasons why I would never play this game on a computer. I don't mind cheat codes in single-player games, but in multiplayer games? Nah.

Ok, I'll remove Harvest Map, and replace it with that amazing "cheat code" called... marking down notes on paper.

Because, yeah - that's what/how I use Harvest Map. It remembers where I've found nodes. The same thing I could do by printing out maps of each zone, and putting a little mark on it when I find one. So Harvest Map saves me a bunch of printer ink, and a bit of time.
edit: which is also how I used Gatherer, back in WoW in 2010.

Gosh, what a cheat.

(question - do you consider all UI addons to be "cheat codes"? Even, say, a better on-screen clock? Or "keeps track of what's in your alt's inventory" addons?
Oh, and do you also consider Wikis to be cheating? How about build guides?)

...and yes, my characters still use some of the Keen Eye perks. Cloth & herbs, mostly. The rest of the things that get highlighted are pretty obvious without Keen Eye.

Wait a minute, did you just openly admit to using an addon to keep track of TIME?! Clock addons are cheats of the summiest order! HACKER!!

REPORTED!

May I please ask what is a clock addon and why they're illegal? Never heard of those.

GreenHere · April 2021

KalyanLazair wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Reasons why I would never play this game on a computer. I don't mind cheat codes in single-player games, but in multiplayer games? Nah.

Ok, I'll remove Harvest Map, and replace it with that amazing "cheat code" called... marking down notes on paper.

Because, yeah - that's what/how I use Harvest Map. It remembers where I've found nodes. The same thing I could do by printing out maps of each zone, and putting a little mark on it when I find one. So Harvest Map saves me a bunch of printer ink, and a bit of time.
edit: which is also how I used Gatherer, back in WoW in 2010.

Gosh, what a cheat.

(question - do you consider all UI addons to be "cheat codes"? Even, say, a better on-screen clock? Or "keeps track of what's in your alt's inventory" addons?
Oh, and do you also consider Wikis to be cheating? How about build guides?)

...and yes, my characters still use some of the Keen Eye perks. Cloth & herbs, mostly. The rest of the things that get highlighted are pretty obvious without Keen Eye.

Wait a minute, did you just openly admit to using an addon to keep track of TIME?! Clock addons are cheats of the summiest order! HACKER!!

REPORTED!

May I please ask what is a clock addon and why they're illegal? Never heard of those.

Oh my... I thought for sure I wouldn't have to put a disclaimer at the bottom of my post to make it clear it was a joke, but I guess I was mistaken...

But to answer your question, there are a slew of addons that can put the real-life time on your screen, and/or the ESO/Tamriel time of day/month/etc. They're purely for convenience, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. They're just clocks, after all. Telling the time is in no way an exploit or unfair advantage, lol.

KalyanLazair · April 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

KalyanLazair wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Reasons why I would never play this game on a computer. I don't mind cheat codes in single-player games, but in multiplayer games? Nah.

Ok, I'll remove Harvest Map, and replace it with that amazing "cheat code" called... marking down notes on paper.

Because, yeah - that's what/how I use Harvest Map. It remembers where I've found nodes. The same thing I could do by printing out maps of each zone, and putting a little mark on it when I find one. So Harvest Map saves me a bunch of printer ink, and a bit of time.
edit: which is also how I used Gatherer, back in WoW in 2010.

Gosh, what a cheat.

(question - do you consider all UI addons to be "cheat codes"? Even, say, a better on-screen clock? Or "keeps track of what's in your alt's inventory" addons?
Oh, and do you also consider Wikis to be cheating? How about build guides?)

...and yes, my characters still use some of the Keen Eye perks. Cloth & herbs, mostly. The rest of the things that get highlighted are pretty obvious without Keen Eye.

Wait a minute, did you just openly admit to using an addon to keep track of TIME?! Clock addons are cheats of the summiest order! HACKER!!

REPORTED!

May I please ask what is a clock addon and why they're illegal? Never heard of those.

Oh my... I thought for sure I wouldn't have to put a disclaimer at the bottom of my post to make it clear it was a joke, but I guess I was mistaken...

But to answer your question, there are a slew of addons that can put the real-life time on your screen, and/or the ESO/Tamriel time of day/month/etc. They're purely for convenience, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with them. They're just clocks, after all. Telling the time is in no way an exploit or unfair advantage, lol.

My forgiveness. I'm not very good at catching irony.

bmnoble · April 2021

It only shows possible locations for treasure chests, I still make use of the passive to confirm at a distance there is an actual chest there its no wasted skill point.

As for nodes you can set the filters to make use of the passives that light up nodes so it only shows nodes that have spawned instead of possible spawn locations provided you have the data from the community installed.

You can use lost treasure to show the locations of surveys and treasure maps.

You can use Map pins to show a lot of different filters from the Psijic time rifts, to the various relic collectibles, skyshards, lore books.

If there was no demand for these kind of add ons no one would use them.

Not everyone wants to waste their time looking for something hidden on the map.

Since I started using harvest map again I am actually finding chests from time to time before that is was a rare occurrence.

You don't like the add on's don't use them or encourage ZOS to add their functions to the base game because the demand for them is not going away.

marshill88 · April 2021

I'm sorry to everyone who felt I came down hard on you, please don't take it personal. I am grateful to this community!

But I do have to stand by my firm belief that HarvestMap is exploitive and directly competes and is superior to in-game skills. To keep HarvestMap legal, I implore ZOS to boost keen eye skills to make them good enough so that Harvest Map cannot compete with them.

10 MINUTES OF TREASURE SEARCHING PROVES MY POINT

When playing with Keen Eye on and HarvestMap on there is no additional benefit to finding chests. With HarvestMap on and Keen Eye off, the ability to find chests is just as good as with Keen Eye on.

Caligamy_ESO · April 2021

Fortunately the world doesn't always revolve around us and our opinions.

Mahabahabtha · April 2021

marshill88 wrote: »

I'm sorry to everyone who felt I came down hard on you, please don't take it personal. I am grateful to this community!

But I do have to stand by my firm belief that HarvestMap is exploitive and directly competes and is superior to in-game skills. To keep HarvestMap legal, I implore ZOS to boost keen eye skills to make them good enough so that Harvest Map cannot compete with them.

10 MINUTES OF TREASURE SEARCHING PROVES MY POINT

When playing with Keen Eye on and HarvestMap on there is no additional benefit to finding chests. With HarvestMap on and Keen Eye off, the ability to find chests is just as good as with Keen Eye on.

Means only you are to dumb to remember Chest spawns ?

Kwoung · April 2021

marshill88 wrote: »

I'm sorry to everyone who felt I came down hard on you, please don't take it personal. I am grateful to this community!

But I do have to stand by my firm belief that HarvestMap is exploitive and directly competes and is superior to in-game skills. To keep HarvestMap legal, I implore ZOS to boost keen eye skills to make them good enough so that Harvest Map cannot compete with them.

10 MINUTES OF TREASURE SEARCHING PROVES MY POINT

When playing with Keen Eye on and HarvestMap on there is no additional benefit to finding chests. With HarvestMap on and Keen Eye off, the ability to find chests is just as good as with Keen Eye on.

Only 11 chests in ten minutes, yikes! The only thing it proves is you really need to work on your farming skills. Heck, pretty sure I stumble across that many chests when not even looking for them on my alts with no skills or addons loaded.

Also, you are using a really easy zone that isn't even worth farming for your test. Go to a more difficult zone with ruins, mountains, cliffs, and seriously agro mobs... where all the chests aren't just sitting out in the open ready to pluck. Keen Eye can save you 2-3 minutes of pointless travel to a spot HarvestMap says there "might" be a chest, which you avoid doing because with Keen Eye you KNOW it isn't up.

Actually, I probably need nerfed, because I can almost run a Deeshan treasure chest route with my eyes closed. And yeah, love that little isle that you can't quite see if the chest is up or not without swimming to it.... Unless you have Keen Eye!

PizzaCat82 · April 2021

You see PC players can insult consoles all day long but the moment I suggest that PC players play the same game as console players I'm "baiting" and "trolling".

ghost_bg_ESO · April 2021

So it went to:

"I demand to receive more valuable items",

because i use skill in game that other player may not be using because of add-on (or they may be using. but there is add-on!)

Kiralyn2000 · April 2021

Personally, I turn off all that "3D marker" stuff, because it looks terrible.

And again, it only remembers where I found something already. So any "Keen Eye" skills that I would need to find the stuff without it... I still need.

All it does is save me a bunch of paper & ink.

Mahabahabtha · April 2021

ghost_bg_ESO wrote: »

So it went to:

"I demand to receive more valuable items",

because i use skill in game that other player may not be using because of add-on (or they may be using. but there is add-on!)

and all this trouble only for this shimmering and glittering...Trash you get from them....

Aunt Edith says... I do not use "Harvest Nodes"....just the Skill... But after 7 years you know where to look...

rumple9 · April 2021

This should be in the base game. ESO is a half finished game only made bearable with mods. Dunno how the console people cope

Mahabahabtha · April 2021

rumple9 wrote: »

This should be in the base game. ESO is a half finished game only made bearable with mods. Dunno how the console people cope

They are angry, because ZOS don´t care about them...

MAYBE.... we will get AddOn Support....
X-Box only ^^

The_Old_Goat · April 2021

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

You see PC players can insult consoles all day long but the moment I suggest that PC players play the same game as console players I'm "baiting" and "trolling".

Most pc players don't insult console players, it's a different culture for you guys and we know it.

ZOS_GregoryV · April 2021

Greetings all,

After review, we have decided to close this thread due to Flaming and Baiting. Flaming and Baiting are both violations of the Community Guidelines and are stated as follows:

Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-