How can 3D map pin mods be legal? They replace skills

marshill88

I spent skill points on having nodes highlighted. I downloaded the most popular map-pin mod called "harvest map" because I wanted to see where treasure chests were. First time I used it I saw that the chests themselves on the surface of the world had in-map 3 dimensional pins hovering over them. This rendered my skill I spent points on in Scrying (to have treasure chests glowing) completely useless. I don't see how this is allowable. It certainly feels like this mod is hacking the game client as it completely disrupts and makes irrelevant in game skill points.

Isn't a mod that replaces skill points taking it too far? ZOS, would you like to comment on why these mods are allowable?

TwinLamps

Why cant we have nice things
Why are people so much against nice things
Why must every aspect of game be struggle for some people

Bashev

The addon shows potential locations but they are not always spawned. I prefer the skill than the addon. Actually I love the skill passive.

marshill88

I do not like that Mr Joe Schmoe, who hasn't spent a single skill point in treasure chests, gets to see "glowing chests" on the landscape via his map mod. ZOS, if you are allowing these mods then please redesign the skills themselves so that 3rd party (legal) mods aren't replacing skills we spend points on in the game. These mods are the exact definition of an exploit to me.

Even better, ZOS, how about we render these map pins completely obsolete...remove this exploit...and put random node spawn locations on the maps!

D0RID0RI240

marshill88 wrote: »

I spent skill points on having nodes highlighted. I downloaded the most popular map-pin mod called "harvest map" because I wanted to see where treasure chests were. First time I used it I saw that the chests themselves on the surface of the world had in-map 3 dimensional pins hovering over them. This rendered my skill I spent points on in Scrying (to have treasure chests glowing) completely useless. I don't see how this is allowable. It certainly feels like this mod is hacking the game client as it completely disrupts and makes irrelevant in game skill points.

Isn't a mod that replaces skill points taking it too far? ZOS, would you like to comment on why these mods are allowable?

The addon only points to possible chest spawns. It does not (and cannot) tell you that the chests are actually spawned. The scrying passives show an obvious indicator that the chest has actually spawned when you are close enough. One does not make the other irrelevant. In all fact, they actually complement each other very well. You would think this is obvious, but, here we are.

robpr

Scrying glow passive is useless anyway since you can quickslot the Eye and it will show the direction to dig site.

Starlock

Reasons why I would never play this game on a computer. I don't mind cheat codes in single-player games, but in multiplayer games? Nah.

marshill88

I know you all love your harvest map, but sorry, this rises to the level of an exploit. My in-game skill points are being neutralized, no matter how you twist it.

This is an exploit to me, the only reason I'm posting it here in the forums (and not reporting it) is because ZOS says it is legal and I would like ZOS to reconsider this add-on as either A.) an exploit, or B.) re-design the in-game skills to give a benefit to the player that is better than the add-on.

TwinLamps

marshill88 wrote: »

I know you all love your harvest map, but sorry, this rises to the level of an exploit. My in-game skill points are being neutralized, no matter how you twist it.

This is an exploit to me, the only reason I'm posting it here in the forums (and not reporting it) is because ZOS says it is legal and I would like ZOS to reconsider this add-on as either A.) an exploit, or B.) re-design the in-game skills to give a benefit to the player that is better than the add-on.

If that is such a bad thing, uninstall it and do not use it.
And please, do not force your views on rest of community who understands and uses such addons.

marshill88

TwinLamps wrote: »

If that is such a bad thing, uninstall it and do not use it.
And please, do not force your views on rest of community who understands and uses such addons.

You miss the point, I don't want anyone using it. Would you appreciate a game where you played honestly and knew everyone else was using an exploit? I'm going to use it because it is legal, but it shouldn't be. It isn't about simply me. If this add-on is legal, then I would like ZOS to redesign the skills that people spend points on to be more robust than they currently are.

TwinLamps

marshill88 wrote: »

TwinLamps wrote: »

If that is such a bad thing, uninstall it and do not use it.
And please, do not force your views on rest of community who understands and uses such addons.

You miss the point, I don't want everyone else using it either. Would you appreciate a game where you played honestly and knew everyone else was using an exploit? I'm going to use it because it is legal, but it shouldn't be. It isn't about simply me. If this map is legal, then I would like ZOS to redesign the skills that people spend points on to be more robust than they currently are.

As I said, you do not understand this addon.
You assume things and want to see it banned on false assumptions.
this addon generates data based on nodes/chests that YOU ALREADY FOUND and ACTIVATED.
Later, it shows these as POTENTIAL spots where there MIGHT be a resource node/chest.
IT DOES NOT show you nodes/chests that you have not discovered yet.

OutLaw_Nynx

This ain’t hurting anyone lol

marshill88

TwinLamps wrote: »

marshill88 wrote: »

TwinLamps wrote: »

If that is such a bad thing, uninstall it and do not use it.
And please, do not force your views on rest of community who understands and uses such addons.

You miss the point, I don't want everyone else using it either. Would you appreciate a game where you played honestly and knew everyone else was using an exploit? I'm going to use it because it is legal, but it shouldn't be. It isn't about simply me. If this map is legal, then I would like ZOS to redesign the skills that people spend points on to be more robust than they currently are.

As I said, you do not understand this addon.
You assume things and want to see it banned on false assumptions.
this addon generates data based on nodes/chests that YOU ALREADY FOUND and ACTIVATED.
Later, it shows these as POTENTIAL spots where there MIGHT be a resource node/chest.
IT DOES NOT show you nodes/chests that you have not discovered yet.

Yes it does, all in-game data is easily downloadable. it shows all of them. And the player base (community) ensures it is highly accurate. It shows everything. I know that most players will vigorously defend Harvest Map. It is a massively popular add-on. But it is an exploit in my opinion. Please notice my proposal: If this is legal, then make the skills more robust. Why won't you comment on that? I have no problem keeping "Harvest Map" legal, in that case I want more value for my skill points.

The problem is veteran players are so used to harvest map, they are so accustomed to it, they can't imagine the game without it. That is a problem. One that ZOS and ZOS alone should address.

SeaGtGruff

I would never use that addon simply because I find the graphics to be too intrusive and disruptive. I see streamers playing ESO with that addon and I wonder how they can immerse themselves in the gameworld with all that extra stuff everywhere they turn. But some players love that kind of stuff, so whatever. It's not for me, but I'm sure a lot of the things I enjoy aren't other people's cup of tea.

TwinLamps

marshill88 wrote: »

TwinLamps wrote: »

marshill88 wrote: »

TwinLamps wrote: »

If that is such a bad thing, uninstall it and do not use it.
And please, do not force your views on rest of community who understands and uses such addons.

You miss the point, I don't want everyone else using it either. Would you appreciate a game where you played honestly and knew everyone else was using an exploit? I'm going to use it because it is legal, but it shouldn't be. It isn't about simply me. If this map is legal, then I would like ZOS to redesign the skills that people spend points on to be more robust than they currently are.

As I said, you do not understand this addon.
You assume things and want to see it banned on false assumptions.
this addon generates data based on nodes/chests that YOU ALREADY FOUND and ACTIVATED.
Later, it shows these as POTENTIAL spots where there MIGHT be a resource node/chest.
IT DOES NOT show you nodes/chests that you have not discovered yet.

Yes it does, all in-game data is easily downloadable. it shows all of them. And the player base (community) ensures it is highly accurate. It shows everything. I know that most players will vigorously defend Harvest Map. It is a massively popular add-on. But it is an exploit in my opinion. Please notice my proposal: If this is legal, then make the skills more robust. Why won't you comment on that? I have no problem keeping "Harvest Map" legal, in that case I want more value for my skill points.

The problem is veteran players are so used to harvest map, they are so accustomed to it, they can't imagine the game without it. That is a problem. One that ZOS and ZOS alone should address.

So you want to lecture me about addon you discovered today and I use it for several years on my 5 accounts.
Anyone using this for more than few days will find no truth in your words.

Also, idk what is wrong with skill.
I use it, its great, looted multiple chests I wouldnt even notice that way.

Mitrenga

Someone is trying to decide for everyone.
Just do not use it for yourself. You cannot speak for others. The add on shows the possible nodes, which are already memorized by many players that are playing the game for years. What is next, are you going to ask my memory to be erased because I know almost all the chest locations in Deshaan and it is unfair for the other players?

marshill88

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I would never use that addon simply because I find the graphics to be too intrusive and disruptive. I see streamers playing ESO with that addon and I wonder how they can immerse themselves in the gameworld with all that extra stuff everywhere they turn. But some players love that kind of stuff, so whatever. It's not for me, but I'm sure a lot of the things I enjoy aren't other people's cup of tea.

Yes it has stuff everywhere, but you can filter it out to just see what you are looking for.

Any add-on that ursurps in-game skills that you spend skill points on is exploitive and should be addressed. Personally, I hope Harvest Map stays, but that ZOS redesigns node highlight skills to be more powerful than they are.

We should not have add-ons that take the place of in-game skills, not in any way shape or form. This is my opinion, of course, but I'm pretty strong on it because I value game integrity and Harvest Map really does push the limits and directly intrude on in-game skills.

colossalvoids

There is a difference between possible node locations and actual node spawns, no problem here at all.

marshill88

colossalvoids wrote: »

There is a difference between possible node locations and actual node spawns, no problem here at all.

Well, my friend (and I mean this respectfully to you) .....I'll demonstrate a problem to you.
How would you feel if ZOS decided to completely randomize all nodes, so that nodes were not preconfigured but randomly appeared on the map?

Based on your comment, I would expect you would have no problem with total randomization of nodes, yes? I can assure you that Harvest Map users would deplore ZOS randomizing nodes.

With Harvest Map, you don't need to spend skill points on having treasure chests glow, correct? Yes, completely correct. This is a direct example of an "Add-on" having the power of in-game skills, and this shouldn't be.

allhailskippy

You could alway join us on console.

We don't get ANY add-ons.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

If you're so worried about "wasted skill points" then respec and remove those passives and use the addon instead. The addons are pure convenience and have no affect on anyone but the person using them. If you just don't like addons at all then maybe you would have a better time on console where these "cheats and exploits" don't exist.

GreenHere

Sometimes I get a bit self-conscious, and wonder if I'm too critical and negative here on the forums. I do tend to have a critical nature, and I often argue for (apparently) unpopular opinions if I think there's a legitimate point that deserves raising where others seem to miss it or whatever. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just worried about things that are actually nothing, and I should just let it go since it doesn't actually matter in the first place.


Then I see threads like this, and I feel better.




Look, I can get behind an argument like "HarvestMap is WAY better at what it does than the in-game perks that serve a similar function.. so the in-game perks should be buffed to reach some kind of parity." but when you come at us like "Y'all are exploiting and need to have your useful features forcibly taken away!" well... that's a hard "No" from me, dog.

How exactly does an addon giving a visual marker to help people remember already-discovered locations hurt anyone else?

Also, harvesting crowding / over-saturation isn't even really an issue in the first place, is it? I'm on PC/NA, and I feel like I deal with less harvesting competition than ever lately. Is it different on EU or something?

TwinLamps

I have spent skill points into all of these.
Most people do, even if they use this or similar addons.
Because there is difference between node that is there and ready to be farmed, and place where node was sometimes in the past and might not be there at the moment you are near the spot.
Also, you need skill points invested in node glow because you discover new nodes all the time.
Especially if you are farming in newer area, where you havent spent lot of time already.
BTW, if you dislike how nodes look on your map, search for icon packs on esoui to change them.

Here is how my map looks with all enabled, also how some of pins look in game.

ghastley

Can we please lose the "anything I don't have must be a cheat" attitude?

scorpius2k1

OP I get your angle but, third world problems here. It's a non-issue tbh. A bigger issue and another topic maybe we can all agree on here is players on all systems not looting the chests entirely and leaving the junk for the next person that opens the chest! Imho, once the chest is opened and any loot taken from it a simple timer is started (say 60 seconds) where the chest will de-spawn instead of staying there until another player takes the rest of the loot. Seems simple of enough solution? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

As @allhailskippy said, console doesn't have addon options if a 100% equal playing field is a priority. That is about the only choice as I don't see this changing on PC anytime soon, if ever.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Then uninstall the addon and move on. Why attempt to ruin a QOL feature that has zero effect on competitive gameplay. Everything else I want to say will probably get removed by the mods, so I will just stop typ ...

DJfriede

*looks at his unused 27 skill points*

The handful of skillpoints put into scrying or the crafting skills don't matter that much in the long run. Let it go and enjoy the game, with or without add-ons.

Nirrudn

marshill88 wrote: »

I'd love to hear from ZOS about this, truth be told.

I mean, they've had 7 years to say or do something about it. My money's on it isn't changing.

marshill88

Nirrudn wrote: »

marshill88 wrote: »

I'd love to hear from ZOS about this, truth be told.

I mean, they've had 7 years to say or do something about it. My money's on it isn't changing.

haha, yes that is true! But maybe I'm the very first person in 7 years to bring it up

Fennwitty

marshill88 wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

There is a difference between possible node locations and actual node spawns, no problem here at all.

With Harvest Map, you don't need to spend skill points on having treasure chests glow, correct? Yes, completely correct. This is a direct example of an "Add-on" having the power of in-game skills, and this shouldn't be.

First of all: HarvestMap has been around many, many years.

Keen Eye: Treasure Chests didn't exist until May 2020 when Greymoor chapter released.

If you feel the skill doesn't live up to an addon's functionality, and the addon was there WAY before the skill, you should submit feedback to ZoS about it being unimpressive.


Second: There's a tremendous difference between potential location and actual locations. There's like a hundred 'potential' locations in each map but only a handful of chests will really be out at a given time. So yes, you can use HarvestMaps to chase down all the possible locations. Usually nothing will be there.

Keen Eye: Treasure Chests complements HarvestMap. They don't compete directly. I have two characters now I've raised up to activate Keen Eye: Treasure Chests on, and I'm going to work on a third. I've been using HarvestMap for over two years now. Keen Eye: Treasure Chests is extremely helpful.

Keen Eye: Treasure Chests only glows when there's literally a chest there. In dungeons especially, chests can be pretty well hidden or even fall through the ground and be almost invisible. Without the glow I'd have missed a lot of treasure chests.

Third: Most players do not have any reason to train the 'find resource node' passives. Except for alchemy. When you're CP160, every single resource node is quite easy to see (assuming you do not have red colorblindness). I can pick out a resource node from distances so many times greater than even a maxed out 'make node highlight' would ever be able to do, just because I'm so used to spotting them. None of my characters have any of those trained except for Alchemy one, and only then because a few of those are tough to notice (Mountain Flower).

The only point I'd agree with partly is the specific feature 'display only spawned nodes'. Which isn't reliable for one thing, but I can agree with that specific feature being maybe too strong vs. the base game. And that doesn't work for treasure chests by the way.

GreenHere

Also worth noting:

The thing I think lot of us really like about HarvestMap is that the pins are actually visible pretty much at all times, and you can tweak them to your liking in settings. The in-game glow is woefully inadequate a good 60% of the time or more, since ambient light or shin-high bushes can render them totally invisible. And you cannot customize their appearance in any way whatsoever, which sucks.


IF we were discussing nixing the HarvestMap and similar addons (are there even others like HM?), I'd want to see the Keen Eye passives buffed to at least be something more like Necromancers see those bright teal beams on corpses -- at least you can actually see those most of the time. Right now Keen Eye puts a roughly sand-colored fairly dim-in-daylight glow on things that are largely placed in sand... so the in-game glow is great at night, but often ineffective during the daytime. Keen Eye is pretty underwhelming as-is, which is likely a large part of what drives HM's popularity.

Also -- the in-game method does nothing to give you an overview of where nodes are distributed on the map, and while it's a feature I could live without without complaint, I don't see why that useful feature needs to be taken away from players either. What's the harm in having that information available?