Maintenance for the week of March 25:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 28, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

What beef do you think ZOS has against Bretons and Direnni?

  • phantasmalD
    phantasmalD
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm also kinda disappointed that Balfiera will never get used for a story DLC, but tbh being what's essentially the One True Tutorial for the rest of the game's remaning existence is a pretty prestigous position and you prob couldn't find a better candidate for it than Tower Zero.

    As for the asset reuse:
    FwRmsUT.png

    WGT for comparison's sake:
    799px-ON-place-White-Gold_Tower.jpg

    They actually tweaked the design quite a bit. You can see many subtle and obvious differences to the point that the only thing similar is the base shape.
    For the surrounding ruins ZoS used the Ancient Elven architecture that they introduced in Summerset. if you go to the Tor-Hame-Khard delve on Summerset, you pretty much going to get the same experience. Minus the magickal tutorial stuff.

    Edited by phantasmalD on April 21, 2021 1:31AM
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm also kinda disappointed that Balfiera will never get used for a story DLC, but tbh being what's essentially the One True Tutorial for the rest of the game's remaning existence is a pretty prestigous position and you prob couldn't find a better candidate for it than Tower Zero.

    As for the asset reuse:
    FwRmsUT.png

    WGT for comparison's sake:
    799px-ON-place-White-Gold_Tower.jpg

    They actually tweaked the design quite a bit. You can see many subtle and obvious differences to the point that the only thing similar is the base shape.
    For the surrounding ruins ZoS used the Ancient Elven architecture that they introduced in Summerset. if you go to the Tor-Hame-Khard delve on Summerset, you pretty much going to get the same experience. Minus the magickal tutorial stuff.

    this is now passable
  • Iccotak
    Iccotak
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah I think there is enough of a clear difference to show that the WGT is based on the Direnni Tower
  • Supreme_Atromancer
    Supreme_Atromancer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think that you need to have a good feel for what High Rock is- and who the Bretons are- to write good content.

    Yes, they hit some of the "points" base-game, but it felt flat, and without any real soul or nuance. Large parts of the High Rock story, since the franchise's inception has been its fractitiousness and internal politics; its Direnni past; with the blood of the Direnni, and the subsequent pervasiveness of magic to distinguish them from other human races.

    Base game we did see Bretons allying with Direnni in one instance - but its shallow and inconsequential. You can't learn anything about the dynamic, nor explore it any further at all. The writers seemed at such a loss for any sort of interesting Direnn or Breton character or dynamic that they fist-forced The Last Ayleid King to the forefront instead.

    If you carefully watch for loading screens, you might catch a glimpse of the notion that the whole eastern border of High Rock was watched by Direnn towers, constructed against First Empire Nordic incursion. I mean, isn't that an amazing hook to explore? An opportunity to learn about one of the more significant elements of High Rock history and personality? Can you actually explore that in game? Is there a single lorebook talking about it? Something other than basic Breton architecture to give you the most remote inkling? Presumably, there was no room for this element of High Rock's personality because the developers decided High Rock would be better being Aylied. The world is meant to tell the story, but there's nothing in the world to tell it.

    Some of us might have been excited to catch a glimpse of something Direnni in Summerset, but they have no personality there, either. They are just generic High Elves, and you could switch out the name for any other High Elf name, hell- any name regardless and the story would be exactly the same because there is no story to who the Direnni are, or were. Nothing to explore.

    What about the famous Breton fractitiousness? Wayrest's famous competitiveness towards Daggerfall and vice-versa? The distinction between these western, high-society cities to their eastern, frontier, mountain-living cousins in Evermore and Jehanna? Nope, we're all exactly the same, all on the same page, all feel the same. There's less intrigue and interesting politics to explore than the other provinces.

    What about Ephesus - by lore, a region in the Dragontails bordering High Rock and Hammerfell. Its hard not to read that one line and not have a dozen interesting hooks or world building ideas spring to mind. It should be a dynamic and interesting place to explore, right? Well, unless you paid attention to the name of the subzone (which isn't even easy as subzones serve no function), or the name of one single lonely dolmen, there is absolutely no way to know it was intended to exist in ESO at all. There is absolutely nothing in the story for that subzone. No NPCs talk about the region, the character of the place, its history, or any dynamics. No lorebooks. No landscape or structures to read. They were at such a loss that the major feature is a random Khajiiti camp in the centre of the zone.

    What the hell happened to Jehanna? They named a major road after it, but then didn't bother to put it in because it might have made it difficult to understand that the Wrothgar chapter was about OOOORRRCC!!! As an afterthought they put in the inexpliccable and mysterious Jehanna Docks, which has nothing to explain it, no people, no services, nothing. Even the boat to Icereach wont go near it, and clearly there was room for only one lorebook which might have given anyone any idea wtf it was meant to be, but they decided people care more about books with jokes about Horkers than the baffling world-crafting decisions they sometimes make.

    Its hard for the community not to come to the conclusion that the developers subscribe to the notion that "Bretons are boring, generic medievals", and throw their hands up and just give up on them, giving anything cool they might have had to the imperials. They've previously leveraged the cooler, Kirkbride-inspired stuff for Dunmer stuff, and metaphysics, but that stuff is out there for Bretons too. For want of anything more interesting, you just have to look at the dark, sinister aspects of magic that the core SPTs always held onto and ask how this might colour a race that is partially defined by it. But even just a good feel for the nuance and story the lore offers is needed to handle them properly.

    I agree that if they get around to doing Breton stuff in the future, they're going to have to put some lost Breton city in a realm of Oblivion or somesuch. But given that TES's story is "about Tamriel", with Tamriel being the main character, I feel like this would be a forced and unsatisfying solution. For this reason I'm amongst those of you who really hope that they do deal with that empty strip between Wrothgar and Solitude. It wouldn't be a big problem to put Jehanna city here, and retcon a road to the docks below in Wrothgar. The city and region would make for a potentially very interesting story, because it could offer some interesting High Rock story and history, and also offer the unique flare of being remote and existing in an environment so much closer to barbaric neighbours and harsh environments it would be unable to completely sustain the hoity-toity culture of their Iliac cousins. We can only hope.
    Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on April 21, 2021 7:40AM
  • TheRimOfTheSky
    TheRimOfTheSky
    ✭✭✭✭
    Climate being the same as stormhaven/glenumbra is somewhat disappointing, its supposed to be different (tropical/mountainous) from High Rock due to its proximity to Hammerfell's deserts ON-place-Balfiera_02.jpg (palm trees, beaches)
    DF-map-Iliac_Bay_Climate.png

    (climate map)
  • Iccotak
    Iccotak
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    I'm also kinda disappointed that Balfiera will never get used for a story DLC, but tbh being what's essentially the One True Tutorial for the rest of the game's remaning existence is a pretty prestigous position and you prob couldn't find a better candidate for it than Tower Zero.

    As for the asset reuse:
    FwRmsUT.png

    WGT for comparison's sake:
    799px-ON-place-White-Gold_Tower.jpg

    They actually tweaked the design quite a bit. You can see many subtle and obvious differences to the point that the only thing similar is the base shape.
    For the surrounding ruins ZoS used the Ancient Elven architecture that they introduced in Summerset. if you go to the Tor-Hame-Khard delve on Summerset, you pretty much going to get the same experience. Minus the magickal tutorial stuff.

    I would not be surprised if the island had a second use in store after the Tutorial
  • OtarTheMad
    OtarTheMad
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Honestly, the Isle is a mysterious and insanely magical place so if ZOS wanted to go back there for, say, a trial... they could easily do it.

    EDIT- I mean if Direnni Tower is as big as WGT then you could easily be sent to different levels or areas of it for a trial or a DLC dungeon.
    Edited by OtarTheMad on April 23, 2021 7:56PM
  • Aztrias
    Aztrias
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bretons really suffer from that bland "Ye olden Medieval time" or cheap Renissance Fair vibe. :D
    Edited by Aztrias on April 23, 2021 7:53PM
    Welcome Moon-and-Star to this place where destiny is made

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/498360/r-i-p-pc-eu/p1
    Nerevar forget!
  • doesurmindglow
    doesurmindglow
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah I dunno I get what folks are saying but I don't see how the tutorial addition precludes the possibility of any future content involving the island or the tower.

    That being said I do hope some expansion goes back and revisits existing content someday. The base game zones are starting to age in comparison to their more recent counterparts, and it's probably not long before the gap is pretty stark.
    Guildmaster : The Wild Hunt (formerly Aka Baka) : AD PC/NA
  • Chaos2088
    Chaos2088
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Wasn’t the white gold tower supposed to look like tower zero? So makes perfect sense they look alike.

    And it would be a massive shame if the island and tower is not in a future DLC and just left as a tutorial. I doubt it will tho.

    If you speak to the Direnni elf you do get some backstory and hints at the order she is in with her clan/people. Zos loves returning characters so we might see her again and she says she won’t be leaving the island due to the area the vestige unlocked. Dun dun dun.....

    Also hints at her boss and more hints at her people. Think it’s a hint that we might get some content of the island in the future.

    If we don’t it’s a massive miss...
    @Chaos2088 PC EU Server | AD-PvP
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Iccotak wrote: »
    I would not be surprised if the island had a second use in store after the Tutorial

    Nah. I will guess that ZOS is done with that island, now: Previously, they had no plans for it and with the tutorial happening there, they have no reason to go back. The tutorial does not prevent them from doing more with the island, but they have so many other exterior places that they can use.

    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
  • snoozy
    snoozy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    what is a direnni :o
    PC EU
  • hcbigdogdoghc
    hcbigdogdoghc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    As expected, the word "Breton" didn't get mentioned even once in the new tutorial despite taking place on the isle (who cares about the relationship between Bretons and Direnni am i right?), and we barely learned anything about the Direnni.

    Congratulations to ZOS, all of your hated High Rock is done, although I have no idea where this hatred came from. Still you don't have to work on things you hate anymore. Having Isle of Balfiera as the tutorial location is quite genius too, no need to waste your precious precious time to make antiquities and side quests for these lowlife Bretons and Direnni am I right?

    Edited by hcbigdogdoghc on April 25, 2021 12:12PM
  • Supreme_Atromancer
    Supreme_Atromancer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    snoozy wrote: »
    what is a direnni :o

    The Direnni were an Altmer clan that colonised High Rock early on, famous for their skill in alchemy and enchanting, as well as their pioneering spirit. When they encountered early Nedes in the area, the Direnni formed a ruling caste over them. There's no evidence they treated their Nedes anywhere near as poorly as their Ayleid cousins did the Nedes in what would become Cyrodiil - but caste system was rigid; they claimed mating rights over any Nede they desired. The resultant Man-mer were afforded higher stations, and formed a caste above their Nedic compatriots, but were still below the Direnni.

    The Direnni exercised hegemony over a large, and expanding part of North-Western Tamriel, but eventually over-extended. They butted heads with the recently freed Alessian Imperials from Cyrodiil, and later struggled against expansionist Nords. Eventually, their ability to exercise power over their domain waned, and bit by bit they receded, until all that was left was their final stronghold - in Balfiera (tutorial island).

    The man-mer in High Rock flourished in the power vaccuum left by the Direnni, and slipped easily into administrative control of the province. Although over time, their already small elven heritage diluted, it still expresses itself in the sometimes haughty aloofness, refined sensibilities and magical aptitude of their descendants, the Bretons.

    The Direnni heritage is a big important part of Breton history, and you'd probably think there'd be a lot to explore about that dynamic. Instead, we get generic Aylied stuff, and learn nothing at all about them. Given ZOS's struggle to write an interesting story of High Rock, I think this was a huge oversight. The lore, and other source material has quite a few really good hooks that could still be used to give us anything but boring, generic medievals, but this one was one of the big, forhead-slappingly obvious ones.
    Edited by Supreme_Atromancer on April 25, 2021 3:50PM
  • Aztrias
    Aztrias
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another Lady Laurent and Stibbons cameo is probaly all you're going to get in regards to new Breton themed content :o .
    Welcome Moon-and-Star to this place where destiny is made

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/498360/r-i-p-pc-eu/p1
    Nerevar forget!
  • Ajaxandriel
    Ajaxandriel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Learning that right now
    I'm quite underwhelmed ...even disappointed.

    But anyway thanks for the screenshots, at least now we've an insight of what it's meant to look like.
    TESO:Triskelion - forum RP, guilde francophone
    Ajaxandriel - haut-elfe gardien 50 ;
    Altarya - haute-elfe templière 50 ;
    Angelith - elfe des bois gardienne 50 ;
    Antarius Scorpio - impérial chevalier-dragon 50 ;
    Artémidore de Corbeaulieu - bréton lame noire 50 ;
    Azothos Sadras - elfe noir sorcier 50 ;
    Celestras - haut-elfe sorcier 50 ;
    Diluviatar - elfe des mers sorcier 50 ;
    Dorguldun gro-Arash - orque sorcier 50 ;
    Hjarnar - nordique sorcier 50 ;
    Jendaya al-Gilane - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50 ;
    Sabbathnazar Ullikummi - elfe noir chevalier-dragon 50 ;
    Selvaryn Virotès - elfe noire lame noire 50 ;
    Tahajmi - khajiit sorcière 50 ;
    Telernil - haut-elfe templier 50 ;
    Zadzadak - gobelin nécromancien 50 ;
    Zandoga - rougegarde chevalier-dragon 50
  • wenchmore420b14_ESO
    wenchmore420b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Ever since I discovered the Adamantine Tower in 2014 at launch, I have been looking forward to seeing it and what ZoS would do with it.
    So disappointed with the tutorial. But have been getting more and more disappointed with ZoS anyway over several things.
    Pic of island from 2014...

    BdpFWn4.png
    Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
    NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
    GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
    Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
    "Not All Who Wander are Lost"
    #MOREHOUSINGSLOTS
    “When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”

    _Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)
  • Orion_89
    Orion_89
    ✭✭✭✭
    Bretons are descendants of the white slaves. I think that's the case.
  • Athan1
    Athan1
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bretons could have been handled better, being the magical humans and all, instead they're vanilla humans, more knightly than the Imperials even. Also, ngl https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/572606/im-playing-breton-because-i-want-to-be-a-handsome-altmer/p1
    Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr
Sign In or Register to comment.