HP regen ?

AyaDark · April 2021

It is strange to nerf HP regen in PVP.

It is to small for PVE.

In pvp if it will be 50% nerfed - OK.

just look 2 sets BEE Keper / or Alessia

As example alessia heal each 2 seconds for 1300 hp. Hitis gives the same healing.

Almalexia's Mercy's heal for the same ammount. + Heals near standing people.

With HP regen nerfed 2 times such healing sets will be just 2 times better.

So now HP regen will be useless in pve and pvp - it was bad in PVE even before - now it is bad in PVP to.

Why ?

Sangwyne · April 2021

Health regen builds were already a meme, they required otherwise useless glyphs and multiple sets, none of which gave damage like the proc sets people have been complaining about. Werewolf was already nerfed, there was literally no reason to go after Health regen. Chock it up as yet another nerf to DK, we get a whopping 5% Health recovery per Draconic Power skill slotted and the Major Fortitude buff from GDB, which potions already grant. Wowee.

AyaDark · April 2021

I really do not understand how balancing work here, last 5 updates are just random changed.

And the most terrible is - you just change onee sets for the same another same sets to get absolutly the same !!!

What is the reason for such balancing than ? People just need to change 1 set to get all the same.

Why people need to change sets each update for the same result ???

HP regen is bad in PVE - is BAD in PVP.

Just what reason is now the set Alessian order as example ?

Not PVE not PVP set.

But just the same healing sets will now work PVE and PVP.

It is just strange. It is not balancing - it is just random changes.

Nothing really changed - just change sets to get just the same.

It just make players angrier nothing more.

Grimlok_S · April 2021

Sangwyne wrote: »

Health regen builds were already a meme, they required otherwise useless glyphs and multiple sets, none of which gave damage like the proc sets people have been complaining about. Werewolf was already nerfed, there was literally no reason to go after Health regen. Chock it up as yet another nerf to DK, we get a whopping 5% Health recovery per Draconic Power skill slotted and the Major Fortitude buff from GDB, which potions already grant. Wowee.

With no need for Major Fort I suggest you investigate Herosim pots.. It's downright dirty on DK.

Nebula_DooM · April 2021

Good

YandereGirlfriend · April 2021

Grimlok_S wrote: »

Sangwyne wrote: »

Health regen builds were already a meme, they required otherwise useless glyphs and multiple sets, none of which gave damage like the proc sets people have been complaining about. Werewolf was already nerfed, there was literally no reason to go after Health regen. Chock it up as yet another nerf to DK, we get a whopping 5% Health recovery per Draconic Power skill slotted and the Major Fortitude buff from GDB, which potions already grant. Wowee.

With no need for Major Fort I suggest you investigate Herosim pots.. It's downright dirty on DK.

Strongly agree.

Tommy_The_Gun · April 2021

Only use for health regen will be basically soloing some normal base game dungeons that have long stun-lock mechanics (because with higher health regen, mobs do close to no dmg).

In PVP imho they kinda over nerfed this.

For example, during no-proc tests/meta I have found a way to play this game and even enjoy it again. I kinda left PvP for a long time, but during that "no-proc" tests, I gave it a shot and... I was able to enjoy the game again. I made a build that worked for me. With it, although my dmg was not super great, I was at least not dying often and for the 1st time since like... a long time I honestly felt like I have a decent chances against other player. I could kill people.

That build was based on Beekeeper, as basically higher health regen allowed me to by-pass horrible server performance, that often lead to not being able to cast heal or roll dodge, or shield-up in time. Also, with bugged CC break, when you have like 25K stamina left and break free simply does not work. I press buttons and nothing. Again - higher health regen allowed me to mitigate (to some degree) bugged game...

In short - Higher health regen would not be needed if game worked as it should.

Now, that is why I think 50% is an overkill. They should make it at least 25 or 33%, as otherwise, people will just switch to healing sets to by-pass the health recovery nerf entirely (I certainly will, I already have some of them & farming remaining ones), and as a result next-next patch we will have healing sets nerfed.

Sangwyne · April 2021

Nebula_DooM wrote: »

Good

Lemme ask a question, have you ever actually fought a health regen build, or are you just commenting for the sake of it? Alessian grants no damage, Beekeeper's grants no damage, Endurance grants no damage, Eternal Vigor, Green Pact, Orgnum's, Permafrost, Troll King, Willow's Path, all no damage, and Seventh Legion isn't a free proc damage set. Health regen is already halved during combat, meaning that a 5 piece Beekeeper's grants a whopping 450 health/second before Battle Spirit, now 225/s. Sure, you could scale that with Willow's Path (nerfed to 18%) and Major Fortitude (nerfed to 30%) and the 5% increased health recovery on DK (lmao), or you could just run Winter's Respite for 2358 health/second, which now also scales with your highest offensive resource.

People really claim to hate defensive sets but then seem perfectly fine with offensive stats scaling their healing and survivability with proc sets now; it's almost as if they don't really believe or follow the same argument they're making.

Lephrel · April 2021

Here we go again...yet another example of the combat team pouncing on that juicy nerf button, without any reason whatsoever. I feel like the skim the forum headlines, see a post complaining about something and then mindlessly proceed to nerf it into the ground.
A 50% nerf is beyond uncalled for, in pve (where there is no healing reduction) hp regen is completely and utterly worthless. Now that hp regen is being punished even more severly than healing in pvp, it will be just as worthless as it is in pve. Even if it was overpowered, and I don't think it was, they should have nerfed hp regen by 10-20% to see how it would affect balance. Sadly they had to go all in.

At least tempering alloy prices will go down, as everyone deconstructs their beekeeper gear.

boaz733 · April 2021

That's an awesome change!
Let's also cut stam & mag recovery in PVP, and health pool, and mount speed, and let's cut the pets in half, have them walk on 2 feet.

good job!

LinearParadox · April 2021

Bad change. Bad bad bad, just pure bad. There is no redeeming quality, no fringe situation, no niche category, no exception, no rationalization.
No way in which this change is anything other than straight-up BAD.

Health regen is already a dumpster stat in PvE. It's barely a fringe/niche stat in PvP for people who want tankiness.
The Time-To-Kill in PvP is already the lowest it's been in years* and doesn't need to be any lower. Streamers and PvPers are already saying the game feel more like an FPS than an MMORPG with the TTK so incredibly low.
Nuking health regen from PvP is just going to result in even less set and build diversity by making the stat utterly worthless.

Health regen is not "breaking the game". It's not overtuned. It's barely helping to make up for the healing nerfs as a supplementary HoT, and even that is barely helping to keep people alive in the world of burst meta and GREVOUSLY overtuned proc-sets.
The few, FEW "troll builds" that run high regen for tankiness have to sacrifice all their stats just for that, and the 1% of the 1% that have high regen and some modicum of damage, rely on proc sets to do their damage, which will be nerfed in the upcoming patch as they'll have no stats left to scale the proc sets to any meaningful damage.

Just revert the change.
Or take health regen out of the game once and for all and give the classes that have passives to support it, something else instead.

* Not counting Aprocalypse weekend way back when people were running double dual-wield with full enchants + torugs for like a week before they hot-fixed it out

YungRich · April 2021

Can someone link the nerf/changes to health recovery? I looked through all the notes but couldn't find it.

LinearParadox · April 2021

YungRich wrote: »

Can someone link the nerf/changes to health recovery? I looked through all the notes but couldn't find it.

Copy-pasted for expedience. It's all the way at the very bottom of the patch notes. It was an addendum.

"FYI: We just added a missed note in the Combat & Gameplay section -
The Battle Spirit passive now also reduces your Health Recovery by 50%.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Currently, Health Recovery is quite powerful in PvP environments as it bypasses the typical penalty of Battle Spirit with healing, enabling those with high amounts of it to easily recuperate tremendous amounts of damage passively. Rather than nerfing Health Recovery as a whole and making it weaker in PvE where it already struggles due to the need of more reactive healing in those encounters, we've decided to utilize this to ensure it only sees a loss of power where it needs it."

YungRich · April 2021

LinearParadox wrote: »

YungRich wrote: »

Can someone link the nerf/changes to health recovery? I looked through all the notes but couldn't find it.

Copy-pasted for expedience. It's all the way at the very bottom of the patch notes. It was an addendum.

"FYI: We just added a missed note in the Combat & Gameplay section -
The Battle Spirit passive now also reduces your Health Recovery by 50%.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Currently, Health Recovery is quite powerful in PvP environments as it bypasses the typical penalty of Battle Spirit with healing, enabling those with high amounts of it to easily recuperate tremendous amounts of damage passively. Rather than nerfing Health Recovery as a whole and making it weaker in PvE where it already struggles due to the need of more reactive healing in those encounters, we've decided to utilize this to ensure it only sees a loss of power where it needs it."

Thank you! No wonder I missed it the first time.

LinearParadox · April 2021

YungRich wrote: »

LinearParadox wrote: »

YungRich wrote: »

Can someone link the nerf/changes to health recovery? I looked through all the notes but couldn't find it.

Copy-pasted for expedience. It's all the way at the very bottom of the patch notes. It was an addendum.

"FYI: We just added a missed note in the Combat & Gameplay section -
The Battle Spirit passive now also reduces your Health Recovery by 50%.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Currently, Health Recovery is quite powerful in PvP environments as it bypasses the typical penalty of Battle Spirit with healing, enabling those with high amounts of it to easily recuperate tremendous amounts of damage passively. Rather than nerfing Health Recovery as a whole and making it weaker in PvE where it already struggles due to the need of more reactive healing in those encounters, we've decided to utilize this to ensure it only sees a loss of power where it needs it."

Thank you! No wonder I missed it the first time.

You're quite welcome! I missed it too, only went and found it because of the topics I saw about it.
No one reads to the bottom of the change list, and if I were the foil-hat type... I'd say they were trying to sneak it past >~>

Draevik · April 2021

Yeah this nerf doesn't seem right to me, damage is so incredibly high right now. For example, I was in a BG with 35k (I try to overcap to compensate for people with tons of pen) resists 30k health and died to someone in about 2 seconds from dizzying swing because he caught me with the spam stun (overtuned much?). I got hit with a 9k crystal frags, 7k incap 7k dragon leap. I was scratching my head, obviously I knew they had a lot of pen, but really THAT much?

So I decided to try to build more passive defense, I jumped on the build editor and put together an HP regen setup. Was decent, not overtuned and unless you are fighting newer players or people with really low dps HP regen will in no way save you.

I don't think people understand that what they see on their character sheet doesn't reflect HPS, rather regen per 2 seconds.

And these proc set changes based on raw stats is good in theory but heals scaling off of max health will make those sets way worse than HP regen, mark my words.

DreadDaedroth · April 2021

It's not a well thought change, revert it back thanks.

fred4 · April 2021

Not too long ago: Troll King nerfed.

More recently: ZOS slaps health regen onto anything and everything.

Now: Health regen nerfed into the ground.

Remind us, ZOS, what was the point?

Oh and I'm a PvPer, by the way, but I do some high end PvE, such as the veteran arenas and the occasional dungeons and trials. I have never felt that health regen in PvE is a thing, not when you have Brawler, Crit Surge, Sweeps, Sap Essence, Pale Order, and so on. In PvE it was always better to build for stuff that upped both your damage and healing, such as crit. High health regen was not the solution to vMA for me (I struggled with vMA for a long time), whereas in groups you may have healers that are, in fact, crying out to be used these days.

I guess there must be a demographic I'm totally missing. Beginners, perhaps, who rely on high health regen in PvE. I always thought of health regen as a PvP thing.

gariondavey · April 2021

I do a lot of bgs. Some of my dk builds have high hp recovery. I have really enjoyed those builds. This change is really bad. Not only are they making a ton of great sets completely useless in PvP, they are also making gold quality food completely pointless too. Steed stone isn't as desirable anymore. Dk passives are less good too, now.

There isn't a widespread issue of high hp regen ruining PvP combat.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Ragnaroek93 · April 2021

LinearParadox wrote: »

The Time-To-Kill in PvP is already the lowest it's been in years* and doesn't need to be any lower. Streamers and PvPers are already saying the game feel more like an FPS than an MMORPG with the TTK so incredibly low.

Yes and no. TTK against certain classes is still too high (a properly built Necro and Warden is still completely unkillable for low end classes) but that has actually nothing to do with hp rec but with overtuned classes and sets (Mortal Coil, Arctic Blast, sets etc). The funny thing is that tanky builds will just go vamp 3 and get 15% damage mitigation on average while squishy builds (which are already on the lower end) are the ones which get punished by this nerf.