No Buffs to DKs? Really???

ArcVelarian · April 2021

I am beyond disappointed...

DKs have gone for over a year and a half with no buffs since they were gutted at the end of Elsweyr. Zeni's inexplicable hatred of DKs makes it really hard to want to play the game (PvE). I'm convinced that ZeniMax forgot how DK actually works and just chucks changes at us without playing the damn Class or even reading our Ability Tool Tips. Our tanking is at the bottom of the barrel since our class ability costs are ridiculous and our defensive passives are out-shined by Necro, Templar, and Warden. Our class healing is next to non-existent since Cauterize is freaking weird and Dragon Blood is expensive and weak when compared to Vigor. Our DPS is some of the worst in the game because of gutted passives, pathetic sustain, and stamina morphs that were created as the echo of an afterthought. We're THE DoT Class which means our Class Design fundamentally doesn't fit in a game that pretty much revolves around the Burst/Instant/Direct damage Meta.

What in Oblivion will it take for Zeni to finally listen to DK players???

Sangwyne · April 2021

Stam DK has the worst healing in the game, the worst sustain in the game, the worst DPS in the game, no spammable, no execute, no delayed damage, no purges, no crit chance, no crit damage, nothing. Just look at leaderboards, Stam DK is always at the bottom of the list. Or look at tier lists; every single last one recommends staying away from Stam DK because it's by far the worst solo class. Despite DK being the "DOT class", Necro does 15% more damage with DOTs, takes 15% less damage from DOTs, and can purge them too, which DK can't.

Also, a friendly reminder that DK is now the only class in the game without a heal scaling off max HP. GDB scales off 33% of missing health, not max health, meaning it's only useful when you're already in execute range, which in PvP is a death sentence. Necro has a %HP burst heal that scales with enemies hit and is also a %HP HOT, Templar now has two %HP HOTs, NB has a %HP HOT that procs Minor Protection and Major Resolve, Sorc's Clannfear is a massive burst heal, and Warden has Arctic Bull****, which heals for 25%20% max health immediately, an additional 15% over 5s, deals AOE DOT damage with 300% chance to proc Chilled, Minor Maim, Minor Brittle, and Glacial Presence, and stuns in an AOE for 4s. And it's cheaper than GDB. GDB isn't even a good burst heal, and DK has no %HP HOT.

Benoftheflies · April 2021

actually magdk is really useful for pve and hits hard enough. sustain has also been made easier last patch. and the tank morph heals tanks a *** ton, and the mag morph heals magdks completely, from my experience. I don't know how they are in PVP, but I hear they are potent 1v1 toons

Veg · April 2021

I actually thought they might give mag DK's some burst damage after the non proc pvp disaster. The class cant do any effective damage in pvp.

Like we get it, you want mag DK's to heal a lot. But we don't need 90% of our abilities to be defensive.

Dragon leap: gives you a shield

Whip: Heals you on stuns

Burning embers: Heals you

Deep breath: Guess what its and aoe heal just for yourself

also crap damage ( this is the one you could remove the heal from and make it compete with shalk for damage)

It's just sad how bad mag DK's are at pvp.

Sleep724 · April 2021

If they don’t want to make big changes in one patch they could of AT LEAST reduce the cost of many of the expensive abilities DKs have.

TwinLamps · April 2021

I was hoping for
#stamwhip
Ofc zos didnt deliver

Ocelot9x · April 2021

Just drop the heal from deep breath for more damage, is it too hard? Basically every skill of magdk has an heal sticked to it lol
Also make molten whip physical/magical damage like soul trap and boom, class fixed

Elo106 · April 2021

Very disappointed in the DK changes

Susurrus · April 2021

Confused...

There is a thread just below this one that says "DK tank is best at everything.'' So is it stam DK or DK dps that is suffering?

Veg · April 2021

Susurrus wrote: »

Confused...

There is a thread just below this one that says "DK tank is best at everything.'' So is it stam DK or DK dps that is suffering?

It's the mag DK's pvp performance. Once the procs sets went out the class was revealed to be complete garbage at pvp. Were talking a massive gap between mag DK's and whatever you would consider to be the second worst class.

It's like if mag DK's did 60% less dps than every other class for pve. It's that bad.

The weird part is that 99% of pvpers agreed on this and expected some kind of change but literally nothing happened.

ArcVelarian · April 2021

Susurrus wrote: »

Confused...

There is a thread just below this one that says "DK tank is best at everything.'' So is it stam DK or DK dps that is suffering?

It's actually all of the above. DKs (mag or stamina) are being outperformed by nearly every other class in all three rolls.

Ragnaroek93 · April 2021

TwinLamps wrote: »

I was hoping for
#stamwhip
Ofc zos didnt deliver

It's ridiculous how most classes don't have a proper class spammable after 7 years. Magicka at least has some smooth spammables, stamina has dizzy swing and flurry which are both awful. Pretty much the main reason why I hate playing any stam class that isn't nb or stamplar. It feels like they're making the combat as clunky and unfun as possible, lots of stamina builds have more cast times than classes in WoW...

I think ESO has the worst class design from all MMOs which I have played so far. They put no effort into the vanilla classes anymore and the dlc classes are clunky and weird as well and just get a bunch of overloaded skills which make them op.

Sangwyne · April 2021

Susurrus wrote: »

Confused...

There is a thread just below this one that says "DK tank is best at everything.'' So is it stam DK or DK dps that is suffering?

Take a look at DPS logs.
https://www.esologs.com/

Or tier lists.
https://alcasthq.com/eso-dps-tier-list-best-damage-classes/
https://www.hacktheminotaur.com/eso-guides/best-solo-class-in-eso-2020
/watch?v=C_AcbWZZtwc (luckyghost) starting from 1:41
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/568150/pvp-tierlist-for-flames-of-ambition/p1

Or go into Craglorn, queue up for some trials, and count the number of DK healers you find.

Notice anything? Anything in particular?

DK is the worst healer in the game and Stam DK is the worst damage dealer in the game. The only reason DK is taken on tank is because it sucks at every other role but trial groups need its buffs. Our heal is the only one in the game that scales off missing health instead of just max health, our sustain is shot, and our defensive passives are stuff like "5% increased health recovery". We have no flat hp, %hp, Minor Protection, Major Protection, Minor Resolve, nothing.

Bodycounter · April 2021

The DK is still the best tank in the game and GDB is a great tank heal. Don‘t talk bad about things that are actually fine. DK as a damage dealer or healer is another story, though.

LightYagami · April 2021

Susurrus wrote: »

Confused...

There is a thread just below this one that says "DK tank is best at everything.'' So is it stam DK or DK dps that is suffering?

Magdks are only good for PvE tanking. You can try to play magdk PvP for a month against good players and please share your feeling.

I have a flawless conquerer magdk and I also play magdk at PvP often, reached VMA and Cyrodiil leaderboard a few times too (I know that doesn't mean I'm a good player but at least I have some experiences on the class)

LightYagami · April 2021

Bodycounter wrote: »

The DK is still the best tank in the game and GDB is a great tank heal. Don‘t talk bad about things that are actually fine. DK as a damage dealer or healer is another story, though.

Magdk PvP is horribly bad

Extinct_Solo_Player · April 2021

LightYagami wrote: »

Bodycounter wrote: »

The DK is still the best tank in the game and GDB is a great tank heal. Don‘t talk bad about things that are actually fine. DK as a damage dealer or healer is another story, though.

Magdk PvP is horribly bad

DK in general sucks compared to the other classes in pvp lmao

Rkindaleft · April 2021

I mained Stam DK in PvE since Homestead, I've been through the ups and downs of them, so this perspective is taken from an endgame-ish Stamina Dragonknight PvE main. This patch, I swapped because it was so hard to fit Stam DK into, well, really anything.

Mag DK at least has a niche in Trials, due to Engulfing Flames and it's kit makes it very appropriate for Z'en's Redress. Stamina DKs sustain is awful, they have bad cleave, their "spammable" is weak, (its a DPS loss over Rapid Strikes even) and has a cast time and is clunky AF to use and fit into a proper rotation. They have the worst DPS in the game for Stamina specs at least, probably the worst DPS across all classes in actual raid scenarios because of the penetration problems stamina is facing right now, their Stagger debuff niche is easily presented and sourced otherwise in groups because Tanks can use it, which takes away the only utility they have. Solo wise they're also weak because they have pretty bad healing options and especially in content like vVateshran they face problems because of lack of burst DPS and no strong execute (Necro passives, stamblades, etc.) which also creates a problem in Group PvE as well.

To be fair to them, nobody is really taking Stamina DPS into progressions or any really challenging PvE content at the moment, so some of these points aren't EXCLUSIVELY limited to Dragonknights. I might be biased because I'm tired of them being the bottom of the barrel option, but Dragonknights need changes in order to compete.

Sangwyne · April 2021

Bodycounter wrote: »

The DK is still the best tank in the game and GDB is a great tank heal. Don‘t talk bad about things that are actually fine. DK as a damage dealer or healer is another story, though.

I feel like people just parrot this because it used to be true and they haven't bothered to tank since. Every other %HP heal scales off Max HP and heals for more 95% of the time, whereas DK's burst heal will get you killed if you wait until execute range to actually use it in PvP and is ridiculously expensive for the very narrow circumstances where you can effectively use it. Our passives are stuff like 3300 Spell Resistance and 12% increased healing received, which doesn't even apply to GDB unless you cast a DP skill preemptively, whereas Necro just straight up takes 15% less DOT damage, on top of 10% total damage reduction from Spirit Mender, on top of 3% damage reduction just for slotting Deaden Pain, which also gives Major Protection, which DK has no access to. Necro also has Minor Protection through Bone Totem. Which DK also does not have access to. But Magma Shell? Ok, Necro has Ravenous Goliath. 5% Health recovery though? Don't make me laugh. DK is not what it used to be. And ZOS doesn't care. It's not a DLC class.

DreadDaedroth · April 2021

It's already a lot there's not been massive nerfs

maddiniiLuna · April 2021

Mag DK put like 20 debuffs on you (not exactly) and you just die. I mean... Is a buff necessary?

Zos specifically hated dks since elsweyr. Here is a fact for you:

Warden ultimate got changed and had its damage reduced and no longer does cc, but only snare, because "it was too strong".

DK Ultimate is:
- High Damage
- Gap Closer
- Low Cost
- And CC

Take flight literally one of the best ultimates in the game.

TwinLamps · April 2021

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

Mag DK put like 20 debuffs on you (not exactly) and you just die. I mean... Is a buff necessary?

Zos specifically hated dks since elsweyr. Here is a fact for you:

Warden ultimate got changed and had its damage reduced and no longer does cc, but only snare, because "it was too strong".

DK Ultimate is:
- High Damage
- Gap Closer
- Low Cost
- And CC

Take flight literally one of the best ultimates in the game.

Guess it must be nerfed then.
I mean why not delete DK from the game and be done with it?
That way we could have room for one more p2w class.

Sanguinor2 · April 2021

maddiniiLuna wrote: »

Mag DK put like 20 debuffs on you (not exactly) and you just die. I mean... Is a buff necessary?

Zos specifically hated dks since elsweyr. Here is a fact for you:

Warden ultimate got changed and had its damage reduced and no longer does cc, but only snare, because "it was too strong".

DK Ultimate is:
- High Damage
- Gap Closer
- Low Cost
- And CC

Take flight literally one of the best ultimates in the game.

Only looking at a singular ultimate ability for class balancing is not the way to go.
But yeah poor wardens, however will they compete with dks free cleanse on a sustain+major buff ability, their absolutely overtuned health based heal that also debuffs and is a cc and gives a hot or with their shalks that have the tooltip of an ultimate with a 3 second cooldown or their ranged immunity that gives them one of the strongest buffs in the entire game or their major expedition ability that gives them 7% damage increase for just slotting it.
Oh wait all these abilites are on warden not dk.

Rkindaleft · April 2021

It’s worth mentioning that Sustain will get even worse next patch due to the nerfing of the CP to status effect proc chances. Without Burning or Poisoned activating as consistently we will most likely see even worse sustain when it’s already considered to be the worst sustain class in the game (at least in PvE.)

What’s going on there, devs?

JoSePHRiNG · April 2021

DK really need changes and ZOS keep ignoring us,

I wonder when will community "Break" and put pressure on ZOS.

ZOS_Volpe · April 2021

Greetings,

As we've removed a few comments that were baiting and non-constructive, this is a friendly reminder that comments need to adhere to our Community Rules to avoid thread derailment.

radiostar · April 2021

I'm still sad they took a lot of the fires away a long time ago. DK was my first char, used to be really awesome

kojou · April 2021

Nchuleftingth wrote: »

It’s worth mentioning that Sustain will get
even worse next patch due to the nerfing of the CP to status effect proc chances. Without Burning or Poisoned activating as consistently we will most likely see even worse sustain when it’s already considered to be the worst sustain class in the game (at least in PvE.)

What’s going on there, devs?

This change to CP doesn't make me particularly happy, but in general I am actually pretty happy with Magicka DK these days. The increase in base stats (spell damage and max magicka) really helped.

ManDraKE · April 2021

until they remove the unavaidoble and unpurgeable 80% snare from leap, this class should be burried into obvilion, is one of the most obnoxious things on the game.

Narvuntien · April 2021

MagDKs struggle with sustain that is the big issue in PVE, I am liking my damage though. I feel like they are only a small tweak away and while ZoS are still fiddling with the CP I am not sure now is the right time to touch them.

Urzigurumash · April 2021

DoTs also just lost their brief 10% additional damage over Direct Damage by the re-introduction of Master-at-Arms. Right?