The removal of the heal cap is really a buff if you are in a 4-man group. 8% healing off damage done is still fairly strong. If you are putting out 40-50K DPS in a group, you are healing for 3-4K per second, which is pretty solid.

And it's a pretty huge buff for solo play.

jaws343 wrote: »

The removal of the heal cap is really a buff if you are in a 4-man group. 8% healing off damage done is still fairly strong. If you are putting out 40-50K DPS in a group, you are healing for 3-4K per second, which is pretty solid.

And it's a pretty huge buff for solo play.

That's the wrong way to look at it. You only get a buff in healing if an individual attack goes over the 18% value.

If you had ten 1k dots, you were healing for 1.8k/second already on live.

I'm not thrilled with the change because I'm not sure what it was trying to address. Was there some form of exploit or unintended mechanic with the ring?

Immobilechaosbot wrote: »

nice, vampires cant do trials anymore

What?

This is a buff, most people will only use this ring when solo because using this in a group or a trial will result in them getting kicked and not only has the heal cap been increased by 2% but the damage per heal cap has been removed, if you can pull even 20k DPS this will heal you for 4k damage per second.

Not to mention this is a massive buff for those who use Blood Frenzy, now the upkeep time will be even higher.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Also... who goes to group dungeon with a group and a ring that prevents you from being healed in a 1st place ? ? ?

I carry incomplete groups through dungeons and group arenas all the time.

silvereyes wrote: »

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

Even with 3 players it's still very nice, on account of the cap removal

I don't disagree, but the cap removal doesn't affect everyone equally.

A lot of the players that I run duo or trio groups with are not good. They spam a couple skills and struggle to stay alive even with heal abilities. They usually don't want to change specs to heal, because they find it boring.

I'm not saying that these changes won't benefit a lot of players, but for small, low-skill groups without a healer, they are a pretty big nerf.

I hope a companion or two can heal me in a duo as well as Ring of the Pale Order does.

That's especially the case because my Ring of the Pale Order builds include a 5-piece proc set or two.

LiteEmUp wrote: »

8% healing per damage isn't too bad... it still heals you.. if your constantly hitting at targets, you would still get your heals and likely still stay full bar for your health..

i think a decent compromise to add is that you also can now be healed by others, but at only 10%... so now healers on your team won't complain to you for wearing this ring....

I think the best thing they look to be doing is adjusting it and allowing damage against shields to heal you now. There were a few fights that wearing the ring would pretty much kill you because you couldn't heal against shielded enemies.

I think that this is a very fair change for most situations. You wear it solo all the time, it's still reasonable in small groups and you take it off for trials. It's clearly trying to target solo and small group play and the intention was never to obsolete healers in trial content and this change solidifies that.

redspecter23 wrote: »

It's clearly trying to target solo and small group play and the intention was never to obsolete healers in trial content and this change solidifies that.

That's what perplexes me. If its targeting small group play, why nerf it for small groups? Why not just say 20% for solo and 2-3 player groups, 8% for 4 player groups and 0% for 5+ player groups?

zos listened to all the healer mains, this is incredible. we thought we wouldn’t get accommodated because we are the minority but here we are. i’m pretty surprised!

This change is perfect thank you! So sick of feeling useless on my healer in rando dungeons.

Immobilechaosbot wrote: »

nice, vampires cant do trials anymore

Yup you are right. The only lifesteal we got is now nerfed on trials. And they didn't gave us some lifesteal or something to compensate for that..... We only got reaving blows which isn't enough to sustain us..... Kinda sucks to be honest bc i recently started to do trials and now back again being non viable....

silvereyes wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

If you are a duo or trio group, it won't hurt you as much as if you are a four person group

If I'm in a duo or trio group, why should I care how much it hurts in a four person group? Seems like a straw man argument.

From my point of view, it makes sense to nerf RotPO into the ground for 4+ person content, but nerfing for 2-3 person groups makes no sense. What harm would there be in letting them continue to get the full 18-20%?

All I'm hearing from your comment is that they nerfed "my playstyle and I don't like it", but it makes sense to nerf other people's playstyles. It's barely a nerf for 3/4 person groups with the cap removal anyway.

The reality is, the intent behind the set is now clear as day, no debate. It was meant as means to make solo content easier by providing an option to classes and builds that had no means of passive healing without major sacrifices like for example using reactive healing from skills like Vigor, Shields, etc. Ring of the Pale Order is a blanket solution for all classes that don't have great passive healing in the same way Sorc's get from Crit Surge, which has made them one of if not the best class to do arena's on for years.

What they've done is struck a perfect middle ground balance by locking it out of use from content where it would eliminate the need for a healer. It's much stronger for the content it's intended for in that it's now 20% of the damage you deal, goes through shields and is no longer capped, while at the same time, not effecting group play one bit.

Have you ever look at how much damage you can do in pve? Your execute damage alone can shoot up to 50k+ in solo, thats a 10k heal from 1 hit, not to mention all the dots you have running on top of that. Without a trial dummy, some classes can get an average of 45-60k dps. Before, that was maybe about 3-4k hps from the ring, with the uncapped nature of the item, it would now be around 7-8k before execute, 10-14k during execute. That is absolutely insane.

For 2 man scenario's you still get 16% and again, it's uncapped. So it's technically better than the 18% on live and still serves it's purpose in supporting these rather niche scenario's. Content is either built for 1 person, 4 people or 12 people groups, so by using 2/4 players, you're already at a disadvantage and the ring helps cover that handicap in the same way ZOS hopes Companions will.

Once you get into the realm of 3-4 players, you're at a situation where ZOS would probably want you to start using a healer anyway... So it now becomes a more thoughtful choice on whether or not you want to lock out 1 of your party members roles by using the ring. By reducing the effect of the ring to 12/8%, you will start to actually consider taking it off to allow your healer to support you again..

And lets be real, 12/8% uncapped is still nothing to scoff at. That is very powerful for a 1 piece bonus. There is an entire slottable star for only 7% healing and it only effects direct damage.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

If you are a duo or trio group, it won't hurt you as much as if you are a four person group

If I'm in a duo or trio group, why should I care how much it hurts in a four person group? Seems like a straw man argument.

From my point of view, it makes sense to nerf RotPO into the ground for 4+ person content, but nerfing for 2-3 person groups makes no sense. What harm would there be in letting them continue to get the full 18-20%?

All I'm hearing from your comment is that they nerfed "my playstyle and I don't like it", but it makes sense to nerf other people's playstyles. It's barely a nerf for 3/4 person groups with the cap removal anyway.

The reality is, the intent behind the set is now clear as day, no debate. It was meant as means to make solo content easier by providing an option to classes and builds that had no means of passive healing without major sacrifices like for example using reactive healing from skills like Vigor, Shields, etc. Ring of the Pale Order is a blanket solution for all classes that don't have great passive healing in the same way Sorc's get from Crit Surge, which has made them one of if not the best class to do arena's on for years.

What they've done is struck a perfect middle ground balance by locking it out of use from content where it would eliminate the need for a healer. It's much stronger for the content it's intended for in that it's now 20% of the damage you deal, goes through shields and is no longer capped, while at the same time, not effecting group play one bit.

Have you ever look at how much damage you can do in pve? Your execute damage alone can shoot up to 50k+ in solo, thats a 10k heal from 1 hit, not to mention all the dots you have running on top of that. Without a trial dummy, some classes can get an average of 45-60k dps. Before, that was maybe about 3-4k hps from the ring, with the uncapped nature of the item, it would now be around 7-8k before execute, 10-14k during execute. That is absolutely insane.

For 2 man scenario's you still get 16% and again, it's uncapped. So it's technically better than the 18% on live and still serves it's purpose in supporting these rather niche scenario's. Content is either built for 1 person, 4 people or 12 people groups, so by using 2/4 players, you're already at a disadvantage and the ring helps cover that handicap in the same way ZOS hopes Companions will.

Once you get into the realm of 3-4 players, you're at a situation where ZOS would probably want you to start using a healer anyway... So it now becomes a more thoughtful choice on whether or not you want to lock out 1 of your party members roles by using the ring. By reducing the effect of the ring to 12/8%, you will start to actually consider taking it off to allow your healer to support you again..

And lets be real, 12/8% uncapped is still nothing to scoff at. That is very powerful for a 1 piece bonus. There is an entire slottable star for only 7% healing and it only effects direct damage.

In some way though the healing from direct damage is preferrable because it guarantees higher ticks. While the cap removal is nice, you'll be stuck hoping the 1 second cooldown results in the next healing tick coming from a spammable or light attack. 8% of a dot tick isn't great.