Returning StamDK

Urzigurumash · April 2021

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

The reason is Stam DK has no delayed skill to help with burst. Like Shalks, Blastbones, or crystal weapons.

Why would we want that? Why is "delayed burst" good compared to instant burst? Because the delay increases the difficulty in landing the skill, so the skill is awarded a higher tooltip? Our delayed damage is through our DoTs, I personally do not want any delayed burst.

It's because delayed burst can be stacked with instant burst to create a larger instant burst.

I agree that StamDK lacks this element, with Flames of Oblivion being the closest thing. Stacking dots is an alternative, but not as strong as a huge instant burst combo which leverages delayed burst.

However, I've still had pretty good success on my StamDK this patch (in BGs). I've done well in a tankier setup (3H/3M/1L) with eternal vigor. But even more, I'm enjoying a higher damage spec (5M/1H/1L) with two damage sets. Frankly, it's all about Leap. StamDK would be kind of garbage without it. But it is so good that it makes up for other deficiencies.

I forgot to touch on this point, which I should -

Thank you for explaining to me what exactly people meant by Delayed Burst, I've played Necro a good bit so I definitely understand how well this works. I've typically used as the basic framework, throw in other skills as appropriate:

Summon Blastbones -> Puncture -> D Swing + Blastbones hit

but, probably for scrubbish reasons I don't even perceive, I still prefer the simpler:

Noxious Breath -> D Swing

And since in my mind I group Blastbones and Noxious Breath together in a category, I've been wary of the 'DKs need Delayed Burst' idea, because I don't want Noxious to change its basic functionality.

You are right Flames of Oblivion does provide this effect, that's one of the reasons I like it so much, and Inhale has always been my top candidate to get Weapon Damage scaling.

Anyhow about Leap being the only reason to run the class over any other class - probably accurate when you compare all the numbers, but for me, I've only felt this way when trying to play the class as a Glass Cannon, or as others have said, as a Poison Rogue. Let's be honest - this sort of build is hardly lacking in damage, it hits really, really hard and is fun to play, it's just lacking in innate mobility and sustain. You have to stay evasive to stay alive, you have to try and keep your focus 1v1, and when you look at the breadth of our class passives, it's not so much that they're all bad passives, they just don't support this playstyle well. At that point it is all about Leap.

So, in a way, when you run the class as a Poison Rogue, you sort of miss out on the comparative advantages the overall class kit is, or was, intended to provide. Again this sort of Poison Rogue spec hits really hard and I enjoy playing it Solo in Cyro, and if StamDK were rated A+ and everyone were talking about how great it was, I wouldn't be here saying all this, but when I'm trying to maximize my own combat effectiveness to achieve the overall best results for my alliance or team? I'm doing it on StamDK, and I'm building tanky.

Urzigurumash · April 2021

INe_Saninus wrote: »

I stay on my front bar applying claw and heavy attack cancel Rending. Fossilize every 6 seconds.
Wait until I see claw hit about 10 seconds.
Make sure their cc immunity is over.
Swap bars.
Breath. Dizzying. (Twice or into medium attack) Leap. Execute.

This right here is a big spot where the Poison Rogue misses out, and why Heavy Armor builds have always been great on StamDK, despite having maybe the strongest single-target DoT in the game. You have to be tanky to make sure you can stick around for those last few seconds of Claw. What good is it if you swipe them with it but things go wrong and you have to disengage before its final seconds? Not much. If more of that damage were front-loaded instead of back-loaded, it would probably have a lower tooltip for total damage.

Davadin · April 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

INe_Saninus wrote: »

I stay on my front bar applying claw and heavy attack cancel Rending. Fossilize every 6 seconds.
Wait until I see claw hit about 10 seconds.
Make sure their cc immunity is over.
Swap bars.
Breath. Dizzying. (Twice or into medium attack) Leap. Execute.

This right here is a big spot where the Poison Rogue misses out, and why Heavy Armor builds have always been great on StamDK, despite having maybe the strongest single-target DoT in the game. You have to be tanky to make sure you can stick around for those last few seconds of Claw. What good is it if you swipe them with it but things go wrong and you have to disengage before its final seconds? Not much. If more of that damage were front-loaded instead of back-loaded, it would probably have a lower tooltip for total damage.

This sums it up real well.

We are good DoT class that needs to survive to reap the fruit of all those DoTs....

That being said, Im also enjoying going 7m in no-proc-dil with DW + bow. Got Master bow too so just Poison, Snipe, Snipe until I get closer, then claw, Nox, and med attack + Rending until my ulti + Tornado combo.

I'm tired of going Heavy with shield and outlasting people until I can Leap and hopes for the best. It works, yes, but often in cyro now i cant kill people everyone so tanky! Better glass cannon and take 2-3 people with me to rez....

That said, i haven't tried FOO for a while. Its been Cauterize since my shield build days, maybe i try it again. I forgot those flaming balls actually burns quite a bit too... Maybe on DW bar as added pressure.

Davadin · April 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Theignson wrote: »

The reason is Stam DK has no delayed skill to help with burst. Like Shalks, Blastbones, or crystal weapons.

Why would we want that? Why is "delayed burst" good compared to instant burst? Because the delay increases the difficulty in landing the skill, so the skill is awarded a higher tooltip? Our delayed damage is through our DoTs, I personally do not want any delayed burst.

It's because delayed burst can be stacked with instant burst to create a larger instant burst.

I agree that StamDK lacks this element, with Flames of Oblivion being the closest thing. Stacking dots is an alternative, but not as strong as a huge instant burst combo which leverages delayed burst.

However, I've still had pretty good success on my StamDK this patch (in BGs). I've done well in a tankier setup (3H/3M/1L) with eternal vigor. But even more, I'm enjoying a higher damage spec (5M/1H/1L) with two damage sets. Frankly, it's all about Leap. StamDK would be kind of garbage without it. But it is so good that it makes up for other deficiencies.

I forgot to touch on this point, which I should -

Thank you for explaining to me what exactly people meant by Delayed Burst, I've played Necro a good bit so I definitely understand how well this works. I've typically used as the basic framework, throw in other skills as appropriate:

Summon Blastbones -> Puncture -> D Swing + Blastbones hit

but, probably for scrubbish reasons I don't even perceive, I still prefer the simpler:

Noxious Breath -> D Swing

And since in my mind I group Blastbones and Noxious Breath together in a category, I've been wary of the 'DKs need Delayed Burst' idea, because I don't want Noxious to change its basic functionality.

You are right Flames of Oblivion does provide this effect, that's one of the reasons I like it so much, and Inhale has always been my top candidate to get Weapon Damage scaling.

What??? inhale on a StamDK??