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Returning StamDK

Davadin
Davadin
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Took a break when Markath was released, now I'm back in CP PvP and these fun no-proc and CP 2.0.

What the hell happened to StamDK?

I tried tanking up, tried piling on phys penetration (17k with 2H Sharp maul Sprig+3pc Thun), and I hit like a wet noodle. Survivability seems to take a drop too (but maybe I'm just rusty after the break) that a low rank magsorc can blow a hole through my chest in 5 sec flat while I'm still waiting.... for.... skill... to... execute.... yo what's with the skill delay?

Checked a couple of vids on doing CP 2.0 and I got 5.6~6k Wep Dmg, and now crit is crazy low around 15%, the best I can manage is a 17k Leap tooltip that hits for around 5k...... that's after burning them with my green flame for debuff...

Is everybody suddenly getting thicc or DK got left behind (again) in these new changes? or both?

It's still fun, I don't mind dying, but would love to actually being able to HURT somebody before I die...

Thoughts are appreciated.

PS: seems like DW is back in business? I got blendered-execute more often than I'd like to admit, peeps hitting 8-9k on Tornado spins.
PPS: is Sharp 2H sword better than Nirn 2H maul? or just keep sharp maul anyway?
August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber
  • Kaysha
    Kaysha
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    I´m no expert playing StamDK, but I can assure you that from the receiving end, StamDK does not feel weak at all right now...
    Edited by Kaysha on March 23, 2021 8:15AM
  • danthemann5
    danthemann5
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    I run Spriggans / Fortified Brass / 1 Bloodspawn / 1 Balorgh, 2/5/0.

    Sharpened maul, infused WD jewelry, S/B back bar. Steed mundus, RAT and fossilize on back bar to deal with sorcs and NBs.

    Capped resists, ~28k health, ~5k+ WD.

    It seems to work pretty well, but the drawbacks of a stam DK are still there; sustain can be a problem at times, and DK is still missing...something. What that something is I can't really put my finger on. Is it a purge like Warden, Templar, and Necro have? Extra mitigation like Warden, Necro, and NB have? Hard for me to say, but there is something missing.

    In general, for this patch, stam Warden and mag Sorc can be difficult to deal with, but that's the case no matter what class you play. Occasionally, you run into a Sorc that can nuke you to death very quickly. Speed is your friend in these cases, as are rocks, trees, etc. Even then though, a well-played Sorc or Warden is superior to just about everything else out there.

    In general, for this patch, everyone seems a bit squishier except people who build for extreme survivability.

    In general, speed is king.

    In general, stam DK is fine, You can't build like you used to, with all heavy armor offensive sets. Defense has to be considered, whether that's additional speed, defensive sets, CP choices, health recovery, ect. The "free" mitigation that we used to get from CPs is gone.
    ZeniMax has no obligation to correct any errors or defects in the Services.

    Greetings! We've closed this thread due to its non-constructive nature.

    "You know you don't have to be here right?" - ZOS_RichLambert
  • Davadin
    Davadin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kaysha wrote: »
    I´m no expert playing StamDK, but I can assure you that from the receiving end, StamDK does not feel weak at all right now...

    I tend to agree when I got my ass handed over to me easily by other stamDK vet in-game.

    (what do you mean I just got hit by Leap for 11k?????)
    August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
    Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
    March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber
  • Davadin
    Davadin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I run Spriggans / Fortified Brass / 1 Bloodspawn / 1 Balorgh, 2/5/0.

    Sharpened maul, infused WD jewelry, S/B back bar. Steed mundus, RAT and fossilize on back bar to deal with sorcs and NBs.

    Capped resists, ~28k health, ~5k+ WD.

    It seems to work pretty well, but the drawbacks of a stam DK are still there; sustain can be a problem at times, and DK is still missing...something. What that something is I can't really put my finger on. Is it a purge like Warden, Templar, and Necro have? Extra mitigation like Warden, Necro, and NB have? Hard for me to say, but there is something missing.

    In general, for this patch, stam Warden and mag Sorc can be difficult to deal with, but that's the case no matter what class you play. Occasionally, you run into a Sorc that can nuke you to death very quickly. Speed is your friend in these cases, as are rocks, trees, etc. Even then though, a well-played Sorc or Warden is superior to just about everything else out there.

    In general, for this patch, everyone seems a bit squishier except people who build for extreme survivability.

    In general, speed is king.

    In general, stam DK is fine, You can't build like you used to, with all heavy armor offensive sets. Defense has to be considered, whether that's additional speed, defensive sets, CP choices, health recovery, ect. The "free" mitigation that we used to get from CPs is gone.

    thank you! in theory, this sounds very good.

    in reality, this is a *** lol.... but ok. Will look into gaining more speed. I thought Love mundus is a given these days. Might put more points into incoming healing and put on a Troll-king hat....
    August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
    Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
    March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber
  • danthemann5
    danthemann5
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    Davadin wrote: »
    I run Spriggans / Fortified Brass / 1 Bloodspawn / 1 Balorgh, 2/5/0.

    Sharpened maul, infused WD jewelry, S/B back bar. Steed mundus, RAT and fossilize on back bar to deal with sorcs and NBs.

    Capped resists, ~28k health, ~5k+ WD.

    It seems to work pretty well, but the drawbacks of a stam DK are still there; sustain can be a problem at times, and DK is still missing...something. What that something is I can't really put my finger on. Is it a purge like Warden, Templar, and Necro have? Extra mitigation like Warden, Necro, and NB have? Hard for me to say, but there is something missing.

    In general, for this patch, stam Warden and mag Sorc can be difficult to deal with, but that's the case no matter what class you play. Occasionally, you run into a Sorc that can nuke you to death very quickly. Speed is your friend in these cases, as are rocks, trees, etc. Even then though, a well-played Sorc or Warden is superior to just about everything else out there.

    In general, for this patch, everyone seems a bit squishier except people who build for extreme survivability.

    In general, speed is king.

    In general, stam DK is fine, You can't build like you used to, with all heavy armor offensive sets. Defense has to be considered, whether that's additional speed, defensive sets, CP choices, health recovery, ect. The "free" mitigation that we used to get from CPs is gone.

    thank you! in theory, this sounds very good.

    in reality, this is a *** lol.... but ok. Will look into gaining more speed. I thought Love mundus is a given these days. Might put more points into incoming healing and put on a Troll-king hat....

    Beware, since Troll King 1-piece bonus is a percent increase to healing taken, it will not work in Cyrodiil currently. Any set bonuses with a percent, chance, or condition are disabled in Cyrodiil until the next update (allegedly). Only bonuses with flat, numeric stat increases work in Cyrodiil right now.
    ZeniMax has no obligation to correct any errors or defects in the Services.

    Greetings! We've closed this thread due to its non-constructive nature.

    "You know you don't have to be here right?" - ZOS_RichLambert
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    Davadin wrote: »
    I run Spriggans / Fortified Brass / 1 Bloodspawn / 1 Balorgh, 2/5/0.

    Sharpened maul, infused WD jewelry, S/B back bar. Steed mundus, RAT and fossilize on back bar to deal with sorcs and NBs.

    Capped resists, ~28k health, ~5k+ WD.

    It seems to work pretty well, but the drawbacks of a stam DK are still there; sustain can be a problem at times, and DK is still missing...something. What that something is I can't really put my finger on. Is it a purge like Warden, Templar, and Necro have? Extra mitigation like Warden, Necro, and NB have? Hard for me to say, but there is something missing.

    In general, for this patch, stam Warden and mag Sorc can be difficult to deal with, but that's the case no matter what class you play. Occasionally, you run into a Sorc that can nuke you to death very quickly. Speed is your friend in these cases, as are rocks, trees, etc. Even then though, a well-played Sorc or Warden is superior to just about everything else out there.

    In general, for this patch, everyone seems a bit squishier except people who build for extreme survivability.

    In general, speed is king.

    In general, stam DK is fine, You can't build like you used to, with all heavy armor offensive sets. Defense has to be considered, whether that's additional speed, defensive sets, CP choices, health recovery, ect. The "free" mitigation that we used to get from CPs is gone.

    thank you! in theory, this sounds very good.

    in reality, this is a *** lol.... but ok. Will look into gaining more speed. I thought Love mundus is a given these days. Might put more points into incoming healing and put on a Troll-king hat....

    Beware, since Troll King 1-piece bonus is a percent increase to healing taken, it will not work in Cyrodiil currently. Any set bonuses with a percent, chance, or condition are disabled in Cyrodiil until the next update (allegedly). Only bonuses with flat, numeric stat increases work in Cyrodiil right now.

    whaaa............. nice to know. CP points that increase healing works tho right?
    August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
    Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
    March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber
  • danthemann5
    danthemann5
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    Davadin wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    I run Spriggans / Fortified Brass / 1 Bloodspawn / 1 Balorgh, 2/5/0.

    Sharpened maul, infused WD jewelry, S/B back bar. Steed mundus, RAT and fossilize on back bar to deal with sorcs and NBs.

    Capped resists, ~28k health, ~5k+ WD.

    It seems to work pretty well, but the drawbacks of a stam DK are still there; sustain can be a problem at times, and DK is still missing...something. What that something is I can't really put my finger on. Is it a purge like Warden, Templar, and Necro have? Extra mitigation like Warden, Necro, and NB have? Hard for me to say, but there is something missing.

    In general, for this patch, stam Warden and mag Sorc can be difficult to deal with, but that's the case no matter what class you play. Occasionally, you run into a Sorc that can nuke you to death very quickly. Speed is your friend in these cases, as are rocks, trees, etc. Even then though, a well-played Sorc or Warden is superior to just about everything else out there.

    In general, for this patch, everyone seems a bit squishier except people who build for extreme survivability.

    In general, speed is king.

    In general, stam DK is fine, You can't build like you used to, with all heavy armor offensive sets. Defense has to be considered, whether that's additional speed, defensive sets, CP choices, health recovery, ect. The "free" mitigation that we used to get from CPs is gone.

    thank you! in theory, this sounds very good.

    in reality, this is a *** lol.... but ok. Will look into gaining more speed. I thought Love mundus is a given these days. Might put more points into incoming healing and put on a Troll-king hat....

    Beware, since Troll King 1-piece bonus is a percent increase to healing taken, it will not work in Cyrodiil currently. Any set bonuses with a percent, chance, or condition are disabled in Cyrodiil until the next update (allegedly). Only bonuses with flat, numeric stat increases work in Cyrodiil right now.

    whaaa............. nice to know. CP points that increase healing works tho right?

    Yes, there is no restriction on CP abilities of which I am aware.
    ZeniMax has no obligation to correct any errors or defects in the Services.

    Greetings! We've closed this thread due to its non-constructive nature.

    "You know you don't have to be here right?" - ZOS_RichLambert
  • Wing
    Wing
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    i went full glass cannon, 5 spriggans, 3 agility, 4 new moon, full medium, shadow mundus, full stam, weapon damage enchants, saltrice food.

    if im going to die, im going to take some out with me.
    ESO player since beta.
    full time subscriber.
    PC NA
    ( ^_^ )

    You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -Xenogears
    DK one trick
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    How's the CP setup people like to use?
    Wing wrote: »
    i went full glass cannon, 5 spriggans, 3 agility, 4 new moon, full medium, shadow mundus, full stam, weapon damage enchants, saltrice food.

    if im going to die, im going to take some out with me.

    Shadow mundus?? Crit build still works?

    I'm currently Lover mundus, spriggan, 2 Titanborn, 4 Thurn, sharpened Maul. 5 med 2 heavy. Balorgh and Morihaus with 2 1-piece bonus. Pen at 17k unbuffed and I don't think I hit hard enough still.

    Maybe it's a CP thing.
    Edited by Davadin on March 24, 2021 3:04AM
    August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
    Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
    March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber
  • Wing
    Wing
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Davadin wrote: »
    How's the CP setup people like to use?
    Wing wrote: »
    i went full glass cannon, 5 spriggans, 3 agility, 4 new moon, full medium, shadow mundus, full stam, weapon damage enchants, saltrice food.

    if im going to die, im going to take some out with me.

    Shadow mundus?? Crit build still works?

    I'm currently Lover mundus, spriggan, 2 Titanborn, 4 Thurn, sharpened Maul. 5 med 2 heavy. Balorgh and Morihaus with 2 1-piece bonus. Pen at 17k unbuffed and I don't think I hit hard enough still.

    Maybe it's a CP thing.

    might have a bit too much pen and need a bit more raw damage.

    and yeah i have a 40% crit chance (evil hunter on dps bar) with quite a bit of bonus crit damage. impen CP is both nerf'd and rarely slot'd as it eats a space so crit resist is down, that and people are forced to slot more traits like well fitted and sturdy because costs of things like block and roll dodge went up.

    overall, crits hit hard.
    ESO player since beta.
    full time subscriber.
    PC NA
    ( ^_^ )

    You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -Xenogears
    DK one trick
  • Davadin
    Davadin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wing wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    How's the CP setup people like to use?
    Wing wrote: »
    i went full glass cannon, 5 spriggans, 3 agility, 4 new moon, full medium, shadow mundus, full stam, weapon damage enchants, saltrice food.

    if im going to die, im going to take some out with me.

    Shadow mundus?? Crit build still works?

    I'm currently Lover mundus, spriggan, 2 Titanborn, 4 Thurn, sharpened Maul. 5 med 2 heavy. Balorgh and Morihaus with 2 1-piece bonus. Pen at 17k unbuffed and I don't think I hit hard enough still.

    Maybe it's a CP thing.

    might have a bit too much pen and need a bit more raw damage.

    and yeah i have a 40% crit chance (evil hunter on dps bar) with quite a bit of bonus crit damage. impen CP is both nerf'd and rarely slot'd as it eats a space so crit resist is down, that and people are forced to slot more traits like well fitted and sturdy because costs of things like block and roll dodge went up.

    overall, crits hit hard.

    this is hard. i can only go up to 30% crit if I go full medium. and without health enchant I'm doing 25k health bro, lol the cannon is too glassy.

    but I can equip a bow and Snipe hits hard!

    so no green claw if u use evil hunter?
    August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
    Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
    March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber
  • Wing
    Wing
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Davadin wrote: »
    Wing wrote: »
    Davadin wrote: »
    How's the CP setup people like to use?
    Wing wrote: »
    i went full glass cannon, 5 spriggans, 3 agility, 4 new moon, full medium, shadow mundus, full stam, weapon damage enchants, saltrice food.

    if im going to die, im going to take some out with me.

    Shadow mundus?? Crit build still works?

    I'm currently Lover mundus, spriggan, 2 Titanborn, 4 Thurn, sharpened Maul. 5 med 2 heavy. Balorgh and Morihaus with 2 1-piece bonus. Pen at 17k unbuffed and I don't think I hit hard enough still.

    Maybe it's a CP thing.

    might have a bit too much pen and need a bit more raw damage.

    and yeah i have a 40% crit chance (evil hunter on dps bar) with quite a bit of bonus crit damage. impen CP is both nerf'd and rarely slot'd as it eats a space so crit resist is down, that and people are forced to slot more traits like well fitted and sturdy because costs of things like block and roll dodge went up.

    overall, crits hit hard.

    this is hard. i can only go up to 30% crit if I go full medium. and without health enchant I'm doing 25k health bro, lol the cannon is too glassy.

    but I can equip a bow and Snipe hits hard!

    so no green claw if u use evil hunter?

    yeah im bow front bar 2h heal / buff back bar.

    its the only way i can compete with mag sorcs and take back some initiative over engagements as snipe out ranges them. front bar is snipe (either morph) poison injection, draining shot, evil hunter, fossilize.

    fossilize providing stun and immobilize and draining shot a 60% snare gives me all the cc i need to either open distance or tank their resources, snipe and poison inject hit like a truck and outrange sorcs, 15k+ crits causes most sorcs to panic streak, especially if there not sure where the damage came from.

    i dont much care for glass cannon or bow (have not spent points in it in years) its just DK is so far behind every other class in niche this patch. anything anyone suggests is better done by a class you have to pay for. we dont have cleanse, we dont have mobility, no streak, no cloak, no range, no sustain, dot based when almost ever other class can cleanse, no spamable, no execute, sub par heals, etc.

    no other class has to deal with ALL of those downsides and more at the same time, and some dont have to deal with any.

    its very frustrating.
    ESO player since beta.
    full time subscriber.
    PC NA
    ( ^_^ )

    You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -Xenogears
    DK one trick
  • Theignson
    Theignson
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    Davadin, as I said in game, stam DK seems very weak `to me now. My original character is a stam DK and he's my only GO. But he is much weaker than my stam warden, necro, sorc or NB.

    The reason is Stam DK has no delayed skill to help with burst. Like Shalks, Blastbones, or crystal weapons.

    Stam NB doesn't have a delay, but with the damage bonuses from stealth and the power of cloak, can do a lot of direct damage that DK can't match.

    Yes, leap is nice but it isn't much stronger than DB that the other one's can use and DK has no delayed skill to hit at the same time.

    Stam DK has fossilize and leap going for it. They even nerfed Nord resists a little bit to add insult to injury.

    I recommend trying a warden which has shalks, better heals, a free purge+major brutality, etc. As many have said over the years, it is like a better version of DK.

    Quakrson, Stam DK, Grand Overlord
    Trackrsen, Stam Warden, Grand Overlord
    Quakrsen, Mag DK, Overlord
    Tolliverson, Stam NB, General
    Farfarel, Stam Necro, Praetorian
    Spencerson, Templar, Prefect
    Phosphorsen, Stam Sorc, Colonel
    Phosphorson, Mag Sorc, Centurion
    Glimson, Arcanist, Major
    All EP/ PC NA
  • Urzigurumash
    Urzigurumash
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    Theignson wrote: »
    The reason is Stam DK has no delayed skill to help with burst. Like Shalks, Blastbones, or crystal weapons.

    Why would we want that? Why is "delayed burst" good compared to instant burst? Because the delay increases the difficulty in landing the skill, so the skill is awarded a higher tooltip? Our delayed damage is through our DoTs, I personally do not want any delayed burst.

    For me, Venomous Claw is a must slot. It's probably my leading source of damage against non-purgers. If the full duration of it runs out, it does more damage than Leap against a single target. I much prefer Flames of Oblivion to Evil Hunter. I use more Heavy than Medium, I use Molten Armaments and Green Dragon Blood, and I don't use a bow. I'm quite content with being 50% DD and 50% Tank and always have been, and played this way, the class seems as good as any for small scale combat, even if it's not winning any awards for 1v1. In 4 Heavy, 3 Medium, Flames of Oblivion slotted, and with points in the Crit Chance Champion skill, I'm somewhere around 35% Crit Chance.

    For the way I play, if there was one thing I could change, it would be to restore the ability of Corrosive Armor to buff DoTs, at least Noxious Breath and Venomous Claw. I remain recalcitrant that a StamDK belongs in mostly Heavy Armor, and should not use a bow, since we are the Knight class. In my extremely biased view, StamDK played this way has strong class identity and fulfills its role very well.
    It seems to work pretty well, but the drawbacks of a stam DK are still there; sustain can be a problem at times, and DK is still missing...something. What that something is I can't really put my finger on. Is it a purge like Warden, Templar, and Necro have? Extra mitigation like Warden, Necro, and NB have? Hard for me to say, but there is something missing.

    This idea is moot in the presence of the Ring blessed by our Orc-Father, but I believe what both DKs lack compared to other classes is some bonus to Crit besides FoO granting the Crit Chance buffs. StamSorcs might not have a bonus to Crit, but they might get more HPS than anyone out of speccing into Crit Chance due to the heal on Crit Surge, and while StamDens probably don't get enough procs of Chilled off Arctic Blast to make the Glacial Presence passive relevant, they can backbar Green Lotus, giving them one more slot on their 2h or DW bar. Every other class gets either more reward for speccing into Crit Chance or Damage, or an easier way of doing it. This isn't necessarily inappropriate - we are the original Tank class, but if you don't play into our Tank strengths, the lack of a Crit Passive becomes a noticeable limitation, in my view.

    I encourage any disenchanted StamDK to embrace your nature as half-tank half-DD. There's a reason so many people complain about Heavy Armor DD specs - they're strong, like metal, not weak, like leather and cloth.
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
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    Theignson wrote: »
    The reason is Stam DK has no delayed skill to help with burst. Like Shalks, Blastbones, or crystal weapons.

    Why would we want that? Why is "delayed burst" good compared to instant burst? Because the delay increases the difficulty in landing the skill, so the skill is awarded a higher tooltip? Our delayed damage is through our DoTs, I personally do not want any delayed burst.

    It's because delayed burst can be stacked with instant burst to create a larger instant burst.

    I agree that StamDK lacks this element, with Flames of Oblivion being the closest thing. Stacking dots is an alternative, but not as strong as a huge instant burst combo which leverages delayed burst.

    However, I've still had pretty good success on my StamDK this patch (in BGs). I've done well in a tankier setup (3H/3M/1L) with eternal vigor. But even more, I'm enjoying a higher damage spec (5M/1H/1L) with two damage sets. Frankly, it's all about Leap. StamDK would be kind of garbage without it. But it is so good that it makes up for other deficiencies.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • Davadin
    Davadin
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    Theignson wrote: »
    The reason is Stam DK has no delayed skill to help with burst. Like Shalks, Blastbones, or crystal weapons.

    Why would we want that? Why is "delayed burst" good compared to instant burst? Because the delay increases the difficulty in landing the skill, so the skill is awarded a higher tooltip? Our delayed damage is through our DoTs, I personally do not want any delayed burst.
    you can stack delayed burst with another ( or few others) damage-dealing skill. That's the whole point of the burst.
    For me, Venomous Claw is a must slot. It's probably my leading source of damage against non-purgers. If the full duration of it runs out, it does more damage than Leap against a single target. I much prefer Flames of Oblivion to Evil Hunter. I use more Heavy than Medium, I use Molten Armaments and Green Dragon Blood, and I don't use a bow. I'm quite content with being 50% DD and 50% Tank and always have been, and played this way, the class seems as good as any for small scale combat, even if it's not winning any awards for 1v1. In 4 Heavy, 3 Medium, Flames of Oblivion slotted, and with points in the Crit Chance Champion skill, I'm somewhere around 35% Crit Chance.

    For the way I play, if there was one thing I could change, it would be to restore the ability of Corrosive Armor to buff DoTs, at least Noxious Breath and Venomous Claw. I remain recalcitrant that a StamDK belongs in mostly Heavy Armor, and should not use a bow, since we are the Knight class. In my extremely biased view, StamDK played this way has strong class identity and fulfills its role very well.
    I'm with you bro, I've been StamDK since BETA and its my only lv50 toon. I've played tanky, I've played otherwise, and I also strongly felt I want to be a "knight". I mean, lookit all the promotional video. I think it's the identity of the class too!

    But sadly, I don't think it's on par with other classes. It needs more refinement. And flying fire-poop is not the answer.

    So these days, I just want to play the identity where I can be most useful for the faction. That's it. And often, it is to kill the enemy as fast as I can. And dead people does no damage.
    It seems to work pretty well, but the drawbacks of a stam DK are still there; sustain can be a problem at times, and DK is still missing...something. What that something is I can't really put my finger on. Is it a purge like Warden, Templar, and Necro have? Extra mitigation like Warden, Necro, and NB have? Hard for me to say, but there is something missing.

    This idea is moot in the presence of the Ring blessed by our Orc-Father, but I believe what both DKs lack compared to other classes is some bonus to Crit besides FoO granting the Crit Chance buffs. StamSorcs might not have a bonus to Crit, but they might get more HPS than anyone out of speccing into Crit Chance due to the heal on Crit Surge, and while StamDens probably don't get enough procs of Chilled off Arctic Blast to make the Glacial Presence passive relevant, they can backbar Green Lotus, giving them one more slot on their 2h or DW bar. Every other class gets either more reward for speccing into Crit Chance or Damage, or an easier way of doing it. This isn't necessarily inappropriate - we are the original Tank class, but if you don't play into our Tank strengths, the lack of a Crit Passive becomes a noticeable limitation, in my view.

    I encourage any disenchanted StamDK to embrace your nature as half-tank half-DD. There's a reason so many people complain about Heavy Armor DD specs - they're strong, like metal, not weak, like leather and cloth.

    I like where you stand.

    So can you give example how your build works? 4-heavy/3-med, 2H+S/B with 35% crit? what's your basic stat? weapons? give me ideas, bro!

    PS: I love green claw too and check-in my combat stat add-on, it IS often the highest damage. But taking it out and swapping for crit and DoT burst build with 2H crit rush and Camo Hunter, after shooting a couple of poisonous arrows on their back, it does feel like I do more damage. It does feel more effective in combat in CP Cyro, even though.... I felt like I'm not playing a DK... lol
    August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
    Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
    March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber
  • Rhaegar75
    Rhaegar75
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since the new patch I feel my DKs are weaker than my plars.

    I’m thinking about going 2 with damage sets too but I’m not sure what to use in BGs....vigor is still very attractive but I feel I may need extra damage more than regen 😕
  • TwinLamps
    TwinLamps
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This patch isnt great for sDK.
    Awake, but at what cost
  • Davadin
    Davadin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rhaegar75 wrote: »
    Since the new patch I feel my DKs are weaker than my plars.

    I’m thinking about going 2 with damage sets too but I’m not sure what to use in BGs....vigor is still very attractive but I feel I may need extra damage more than regen 😕

    I thought the days DK perform better than Plars have long gone?
    August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
    Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
    March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber
  • INe_Saninus
    INe_Saninus
    ✭✭✭
    Look, man... I don't know how to say this on the forums without getting flack.

    Everyone has an agenda.

    So we're going to talk Stam DK main to Stam DK main.

    *Everyone who mains another class please skip this post.
    (Looks around)
    Everyone gone? Okay...

    Real talk.
    We're tied for bottom tier of the stamina classes with Templar.
    Above us is:
    -Stamden
    -Stamcro
    -Stamblade
    -Magsorc
    -Stamsorc
    Every other class (including us) falls somewhere underneath these classes.
    I would tier us next... with Stamplar, but (shrugs).
    MagDK is around us. Probaby stronger in a duel w/ procs or in BGs. Magplar is still stronger than people pretend.

    ...from what I can tell in no proc campaign the tier list is around the same.
    The top players might have switched around. I hear people say that Stamcro is weaker. Magsorc is higher.
    Irrelevant though to our discussion.

    Stam DKs aren't in that top tier.

    Anyone who tells you different doesn't main the class and probably doesn't have experience on other toons.
    Like... real experience.
    I have a lot of experience on Stamden, Stamplar, Stamsorc, Mag DK.
    I have a decent amount of experience with my Magplar, Stamcro, and Stamblade.

    Stam DK just isn't top tier. I doubt it will ever be.

    ...but if you listen to people on these forums, well, they all have an agenda. Sometimes they don't even know they have one.
    They get beat by a skilled Stam DK and think that there is NO WAY that Stam DK isn't top tier! They just lost to it.
    See.. their class has become part of their identity. They couldn't have lost due to skill to an inferior class.
    Or these guys make a Stam DK and get in a few lucky fights and BOOM! "I love my Stam DK!"
    Okay great.
    See how often they pull that bad boy out...
    Not very often huh?

    My post is growing too long so I going to make this part short and sweet.

    It's a mid tier class with some serious holes and a few strengths.
    Decent heals. Great ult. If you can find bar space it also has the best CC in the game.

    ...that's it.

    Now... you're either the kind of player that looks at that last sentence and says "nope, that's not for me" or you're the kind of player that read that and one your eyebrows lowered and a little smirk came across your lips because you know that you're a Stam DK and **** the rest of those guys. **** the meta. You're going to find a way to win.

    Seems most are going medium Spriggans, Fortified, Endurance back bar w/ 1 piece monster of your choosing.
    Sword w/sharpened I believe.
    All infused weapon dmg on jewelry.

    But you either know you're choosing hard mode or you did it on accident.
    You're either a Stam Dk or you ain't.
    There isn't anything wrong with picking another class. It's a game. Have fun.
    I'm stronger on my Warden. It's easier. I kill more. I survive better. I pull off crazy shenanigans.
    ...but I always go back to my DK.
    (Because **** those guys lol)

    Do you, brother. All just my opinion.
  • Davadin
    Davadin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Look, man... I don't know how to say this on the forums without getting flack.

    Everyone has an agenda.

    So we're going to talk Stam DK main to Stam DK main.

    *Everyone who mains another class please skip this post.
    (Looks around)
    Everyone gone? Okay...

    Real talk.
    We're tied for bottom tier of the stamina classes with Templar.
    Above us is:
    -Stamden
    -Stamcro
    -Stamblade
    -Magsorc
    -Stamsorc
    Every other class (including us) falls somewhere underneath these classes.
    I would tier us next... with Stamplar, but (shrugs).
    MagDK is around us. Probaby stronger in a duel w/ procs or in BGs. Magplar is still stronger than people pretend.

    ...from what I can tell in no proc campaign the tier list is around the same.
    The top players might have switched around. I hear people say that Stamcro is weaker. Magsorc is higher.
    Irrelevant though to our discussion.

    Stam DKs aren't in that top tier.

    Anyone who tells you different doesn't main the class and probably doesn't have experience on other toons.
    Like... real experience.
    I have a lot of experience on Stamden, Stamplar, Stamsorc, Mag DK.
    I have a decent amount of experience with my Magplar, Stamcro, and Stamblade.

    Stam DK just isn't top tier. I doubt it will ever be.

    ...but if you listen to people on these forums, well, they all have an agenda. Sometimes they don't even know they have one.
    They get beat by a skilled Stam DK and think that there is NO WAY that Stam DK isn't top tier! They just lost to it.
    See.. their class has become part of their identity. They couldn't have lost due to skill to an inferior class.
    Or these guys make a Stam DK and get in a few lucky fights and BOOM! "I love my Stam DK!"
    Okay great.
    See how often they pull that bad boy out...
    Not very often huh?

    My post is growing too long so I going to make this part short and sweet.

    It's a mid tier class with some serious holes and a few strengths.
    Decent heals. Great ult. If you can find bar space it also has the best CC in the game.

    ...that's it.

    Now... you're either the kind of player that looks at that last sentence and says "nope, that's not for me" or you're the kind of player that read that and one your eyebrows lowered and a little smirk came across your lips because you know that you're a Stam DK and **** the rest of those guys. **** the meta. You're going to find a way to win.

    Seems most are going medium Spriggans, Fortified, Endurance back bar w/ 1 piece monster of your choosing.
    Sword w/sharpened I believe.
    All infused weapon dmg on jewelry.

    But you either know you're choosing hard mode or you did it on accident.
    You're either a Stam Dk or you ain't.
    There isn't anything wrong with picking another class. It's a game. Have fun.
    I'm stronger on my Warden. It's easier. I kill more. I survive better. I pull off crazy shenanigans.
    ...but I always go back to my DK.
    (Because **** those guys lol)

    Do you, brother. All just my opinion.

    bruh. i feel ya.

    I'm now, exactly how you said it, Spriggan, Fort Brass, Endurance back bar with Bloodspawn shoulder.

    it's true, it ain't top tier, and I accepted that fact. i just wanna know how people run it these days coz I refused it's at the bottom tier. So yeah. I'm on hard mode, and after some hiatus, I'm back to... mid-tier lol

    I did, however, threw meta out of the window recently with DW instead of 2H. And (are you sure everyone's out if this thread?), Flurry morph instead of Rending.

    Why? Coz it feels better.

    Yes, with Molt Arm (or was it the other morph?) the heavy attack got buffed and u can really animate-clip Rending into landing 6-8K hit in CP-PvP.... sure, yes. I tried it. It does work.

    But it makes me think and plan how I engage people every... single... time.

    I'm tired.

    I just want to enjoy StamDK. Imma ride the zerg, goes to 1st person view and goes stab-stab-stab-stab-stab-stab-stab-stab ad infinitum


    (PS: u can execute flurry and turn around and leave and every single hit still registers. some people sent hate tell when they run into keep door, goes behind gate, and dies 3-sec after when final Flurry hits 300% more)

    Oh and instead of usual Wep damage enchants, my DW got poison and shock enchants. but the backbar is still the wep damage. and it's bow.

    Stay calm and DragonKnight-On, friend.
    August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
    Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
    Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
    March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber
  • INe_Saninus
    INe_Saninus
    ✭✭✭
    @Davadin

    To be honest, I haven't spent a lot of time in the no proc campaign.
    With all these double xp events it seemed like the time to grind out some cp.

    ..but I'll tell you my super secret build that I was running before this latest patch.
    It's more play style and strategy than anything, but I was having a lot of success with it and it's still amazing in Imperial City or BGs.
    -1 piece monster of your choosing.
    -5 piece Fury. Make sure it's bodied.
    -Front bar Master Dual Wield. Double dot poisons.
    -Seventh Legion back bar with a 2H. (Was maul/nirn. Probably sword/sharpened now) Weapon dmg enchant.
    -Malacath.
    Food: Bear haunch. Mundus: Serpent

    Skills.
    Front bar: Vigor, Fragmented, Venomous, Rending, Fossilize. Dawnbreaker.
    Back bar: Rally, Noxious, Spiked armor, D swing, Executioner. Leap.

    Now... you're reading that and thinking... that's not so secret..
    I know. Lol.
    It was the play style that made it work.

    See, DK lack burst. We have okay dot pressure, but that doesn't win fights. People just heal through when they see their health ticking lower.

    What I did with this build is counteract our inherent weakness with a strategy.

    I stay on my front bar applying claw and heavy attack cancel Rending. Fossilize every 6 seconds.
    Wait until I see claw hit about 10 seconds.
    Make sure their cc immunity is over.
    Swap bars.
    Breath. Dizzying. (Twice or into medium attack) Leap. Execute.

    Why it works
    Your dmg takes a bit to ramp up because of Fury.
    When you first apply that claw and rending (and poisons) it's not really hitting very hard.
    But once fury starts climbing and claw starts ticking harder you're switching over to your 2H for a cc into burst.
    Basically, you're dotting them up and it doesn't raise any alarms because you're waiting for it to add up before you deliver.

    Vigor and fragmented on front bar allows you to keep up your heals while steadily applying an unnoticed pressure before you slip into D swing meta mode.

    Long explanation for something pretty simple, but I was having a lot of fun with this before the update.
  • Rhaegar75
    Rhaegar75
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I’ve fought a couple of good DKs using Eternal Vigor....very tanky and good non cheesy damage
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll tell y'all the thing that put my Stam DK over top in BGs this patch.

    2 piece Bloodspawn

    I know it's a shadow of its former self, but man it still fits stamDK so well. A spot of extra stam recovery, then fairly frequent additional armor, and most importantly, the ultimate generation.

    It really filled all the gaps for me. I needed a little more sustain, I run medium armor and was feeling a tad too glassy, and it all comes down to leap for stamDK. Bloodspawn means more frequent leaps, which in turn helps with some sustain as well.

    You need to run a back bar set if you want to keep a mythic, so that's exactly what I'm doing, and it's been working great.
    Edited by MurderMostFoul on April 7, 2021 10:40PM
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • gamma71
    gamma71
    ✭✭✭✭
    Stam dk is bottom of the barrell right now. There is not one advantage of playing one over any other class.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    gamma71 wrote: »
    Stam dk is bottom of the barrell right now. There is not one advantage of playing one over any other class.

    Leap is the main advantage. Also minor brut gives an extra 100 wep dmg this patch. So there is that. With all the weapon damage and major mending, one vigor can solve a lot of problems. (BGs perspective)
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • gamma71
    gamma71
    ✭✭✭✭
    gamma71 wrote: »
    Stam dk is bottom of the barrell right now. There is not one advantage of playing one over any other class.

    Leap is the main advantage. Also minor brut gives an extra 100 wep dmg this patch. So there is that. With all the weapon damage and major mending, one vigor can solve a lot of problems. (BGs perspective)

    Leap is ok it by no means makes up for lack of a class disengage lack of a cleanse dont even say slot purge. I could go on and on but we all know the problems. I have to work 10x harder on my dk than I do my sorc or warden or nb or necro or even templar. Only reason it's still my main is that I'm not gonna do all my achievement s over on ps4.

    I've played since 2014 pc then went to x box and finally ps4 this class feals so lackuster right now..mobility is king in cyrodil Weres ours? I played gw2 for a long time and wish we had a charge that we could use at anytime and not have a target like the warrior in gw2. So u could use it as a escape or offense.
  • MurderMostFoul
    MurderMostFoul
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    gamma71 wrote: »
    gamma71 wrote: »
    Stam dk is bottom of the barrell right now. There is not one advantage of playing one over any other class.

    Leap is the main advantage. Also minor brut gives an extra 100 wep dmg this patch. So there is that. With all the weapon damage and major mending, one vigor can solve a lot of problems. (BGs perspective)

    Leap is ok it by no means makes up for lack of a class disengage lack of a cleanse dont even say slot purge. I could go on and on but we all know the problems. I have to work 10x harder on my dk than I do my sorc or warden or nb or necro or even templar. Only reason it's still my main is that I'm not gonna do all my achievement s over on ps4.

    I've played since 2014 pc then went to x box and finally ps4 this class feals so lackuster right now..mobility is king in cyrodil Weres ours? I played gw2 for a long time and wish we had a charge that we could use at anytime and not have a target like the warrior in gw2. So u could use it as a escape or offense.

    Idk, from my xbox NA, BG perspective, I can secure kills rather easily on my StamDK. Leap is cheap (even cheaper feeling with Nord+Bloodspawn), and although I don't have a class burst, my dizzys are insane with the new base stats, stacking weapon damage, medium armor and minor+major brut. My target is also always getting hit by at least a couple dots and FoO.

    Just make sure to run snare removal, major expedition source, and fragmented shield. In BGs, it's easy enough to reposition and heal to full with such ridiculously strong vigors and rally.
    “There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.”
  • gamma71
    gamma71
    ✭✭✭✭
    gamma71 wrote: »
    gamma71 wrote: »
    Stam dk is bottom of the barrell right now. There is not one advantage of playing one over any other class.

    Leap is the main advantage. Also minor brut gives an extra 100 wep dmg this patch. So there is that. With all the weapon damage and major mending, one vigor can solve a lot of problems. (BGs perspective)

    Leap is ok it by no means makes up for lack of a class disengage lack of a cleanse dont even say slot purge. I could go on and on but we all know the problems. I have to work 10x harder on my dk than I do my sorc or warden or nb or necro or even templar. Only reason it's still my main is that I'm not gonna do all my achievement s over on ps4.

    I've played since 2014 pc then went to x box and finally ps4 this class feals so lackuster right now..mobility is king in cyrodil Weres ours? I played gw2 for a long time and wish we had a charge that we could use at anytime and not have a target like the warrior in gw2. So u could use it as a escape or offense.

    Idk, from my xbox NA, BG perspective, I can secure kills rather easily on my StamDK. Leap is cheap (even cheaper feeling with Nord+Bloodspawn), and although I don't have a class burst, my dizzys are insane with the new base stats, stacking weapon damage, medium armor and minor+major brut. My target is also always getting hit by at least a couple dots and FoO.

    Just make sure to run snare removal, major expedition source, and fragmented shield. In BGs, it's easy enough to reposition and heal to full with such ridiculously strong vigors and rally.

    I was coming from a cyrodill perspective were are class weakness shine with a lack of diversity in sets we can wear. Before I still had some gripes but with such a diversity in wearable sets the problems weren't as noticeable as they are now.
    Edited by gamma71 on April 13, 2021 3:06PM
  • Urzigurumash
    Urzigurumash
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Many great points in this thread, I'm working on a post which will discuss some of these ideas in greater detail, in an abstract, and not entirely practical way. As for practical matters:

    I wanted to spend more time playing this patch before I answered your question @Davadin . I don't have any specific set recommendations for No Procrodiil, obviously Hunding's/Agility and Endurance/Beekeeper are both buffed by DK passives, and probably Fortified / Impreg are overall the most popular and most recommended sets right now. I've done all of my playing in some combination of those sets. I'm not a huge fan of Spriggan's, but only because I use Corrosive. Maybe 2 out of 3 of my casted Ults are Leap, 1 out of 3 is Corrosive. I don't however use Corrosive enough - or rather it's maybe impossible to use Corrosive enough - to make Nirnhoned Greatswords a clear winner over Sharpened Mauls.

    As for other build elements, nothing special for me - Sharpened or Nirnhoned Maul, but Greatsword is acceptable too, a 3/4 split between Heavy and Medium - either way, 5 impen, 2 well-fitted or 2 sturdy, Serpent or Steed are best I think, Sugar Skulls, 3x Weapon Damage enchants. I typically only run Infused or Swift jewels, but I'm in the process of trying out Protective since it's been highly recommended to me by friends for this patch. Sturdy shield, and I'm partial to Decisive 1h - obviously a strong trait for DK, especially Nords (I'm an Orc) - but I don't think it's a stretch to say Defending is probably the clear winner overall for S&B this patch.

    As for Crit, I just put the max amount of points in the Crit Chance Champion passive, slot Flames of Oblivion on my 2h bar, and wear Hunding's - in 3 medium 4 heavy I believe that's 32% Crit Chance, in 4 medium 3 heavy it's 35%.

    Before I put any Blue points into anything else, I put them all into the upper right hand side. All 3 of those.

    Like I said, I'm working on a post about the nature of StamDK, but in the meantime, what I seem to do differently from many StamDK, and which may account for why I think we're much better than others think we are - I put Noxious Breath on my S&B bar, along with a heal and Volatile Armor, and usually Venomous Claw too, but if I'm running Fossilized, I put that on my S&B bar and put Claw on my 2h bar.

    This allows me to play the "pressure tank" role from the comfort of my "mobile home", to make reference to the Templar house. I'm a huge fan of Flames of Oblivion over Camo Hunter, and Molten Armaments over Rally - if you can get by without that extra HPS and can sustain the mag costs. These ideas touch on some of the subjects I'll address in my forthcoming post.

    Also in the meantime, some of the views I'll express in this forthcoming post I've expressed in a belligerent, ranting way in this thread:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/569221/dk-speed-mobility/p1

    Edited by Urzigurumash on April 14, 2021 8:49PM
    Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast
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