Thoughts on Guild Traders and Economics
Oliviander
✭✭✭✭
At first - I really like the guild trader system and wouldn't want to change it in its basics.
But at the moment I see 2 problems in economics I would like to adress:
1. There is a substantial inflation going on - which indicates that there are to few gold sinks in the game.
2. The Guildstores are crowded with overpriced Items that usually will never sell
and I guess this often not because of ignorance but to manipulate the marketprices of some items.
(to make even make rather high prices of some items looking cheap)
To adress these issues I would suggest the following.
1. Raise the listing price for an item from 1% to 10% of the called price, so that nobody lists items just for show.
Do not refund the listing price in any case
2. Give the guilds the possibility to add an additional selling fee that could range between 1% and 10% (instead of the fixed 7% as it is now)
and which is deducted from the selling price in case the item is sold.
Split this selling fee 50/50 between the guildbank and the global gold sink.
So guilds could call for higher fees at top places to pay the guild traders.
and each transaction would sink between 10.5 % up to 15% from each transaction
and even non sold items would sink 10% of their called price.
I guess this would bring more dynamics to market.
But at the moment I see 2 problems in economics I would like to adress:
1. There is a substantial inflation going on - which indicates that there are to few gold sinks in the game.
2. The Guildstores are crowded with overpriced Items that usually will never sell
and I guess this often not because of ignorance but to manipulate the marketprices of some items.
(to make even make rather high prices of some items looking cheap)
To adress these issues I would suggest the following.
1. Raise the listing price for an item from 1% to 10% of the called price, so that nobody lists items just for show.
Do not refund the listing price in any case
2. Give the guilds the possibility to add an additional selling fee that could range between 1% and 10% (instead of the fixed 7% as it is now)
and which is deducted from the selling price in case the item is sold.
Split this selling fee 50/50 between the guildbank and the global gold sink.
So guilds could call for higher fees at top places to pay the guild traders.
and each transaction would sink between 10.5 % up to 15% from each transaction
and even non sold items would sink 10% of their called price.
I guess this would bring more dynamics to market.
2
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Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You'll probably get bashed for these suggestions because people like to sit on their gold piles.
I don't even care about trading anymore because theres nothing to spend gold on. I only buy pots for raiding and occasional motif and my gold still keeps increasing by just playing the game.1 -
bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To me that would flood zone chat with people trying to sell their more expensive stuff direct.
I already know of more than a few people who avoid selling their most expensive stuff on guild traders, even seen a few members of my trade guilds kicked over the years when trying to sell some multi million gold items in guild chat multiple times after being warned to put it on the trader.
That and higher fees could even result in people just adjusting their prices to take the higher fees into account passing them on to their customers achieving nothing.
I saw that happen on SWTOR when they raised the global trade network tax rate prices just went up so profit margins stayed the same on most stuff but you will always see undercutters but not enough to change the market.
As for the selling tax the 7% is already split 50/50 with the guild bank and the gold sink, guilds being able to up the tax, don't really see much point.
They might be able to wring a bit more gold out of some of their richer members who only pay the min in dues each week but they also run the risk of their big sellers deciding to move to a guild that has the taxes set to min along with min dues instead.
That is my 2 cents anyway.
7 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Your entire premise is built around substantial inflation existing in the economy. That simply isn't the case. We have had back to back events that have artificially raised the prices of some items and will cause a drop in price on other items that can already be seen.
The market is fluid and it is healthy. Prices of most goods will fluctuate depending on events and player behaviors.
Increasing list price will have little to no affect on most traders behaviors. Who it will hurt is the casual trader that gets a rare drop then is afraid to list it at its true value.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."13 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As it is the fee is not refundable; I’m sure I’ve never gotten it back and take that 1% loss if something doesn’t sell. 10% in addition to the 10% guild fee? No one would use traders and/or the prices on them would go up further.
I really don’t think there’s been inflation in ESO, only normal changes in market with events, supply and demand, etc. Now additional optional gold sinks though I would have no problem with, like even more furnishings from each zone furnisher, even more items from the luxury and golden vendors — any of those sound good to me! 😁4 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oliviander wrote: »
There is no ceiling on rare items. The older the game gets, the more gold has been hoarded, and a really rare item will fetch whatever someone who wants it enough is willing to pay. As was pointed out above, some folks have more gold than they know what to do with and will pay those prices. The economy is not fair, not in life and not in game, the rich will always be able to afford things the average working man can't.
As for this post, I think those ideas would have little to no effect on the rich, but have a fairly harsh effect on the player just trying to get by.4 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Inflation would mean ALL goods are more expensive now but that isn't the truth. The only goods that are more expensive now are improvement mats which is caused by collection book, more people is eager to experiment with their equipment now and it's much easier. That's all. Everything else more or less stays on the same price level.
Simple economics, supply and demand.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.7 -
Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Raising taxes only ever hurts customers, never sellers - they just pass the cost on“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy5 -
XxCaLxX✭✭✭✭✭The sales tax is already split 50/50. Half to guild and half to void. There's plenty enough gold sinks in eso. Roughly 1 billion most likely more gets sinked every single week for trader bids alone. What other mmo does that?6 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Inflation would mean ALL goods are more expensive now but that isn't the truth. The only goods that are more expensive now are improvement mats which is caused by collection book, more people is eager to experiment with their equipment now and it's much easier. That's all. Everything else more or less stays on the same price level.
Simple economics, supply and demand.
Actually, the core of the issue isn't the sticker book, it is the incredibly easy access to transmute stones now to make use of it. The only thing stopping folks are mats, which will just continue to go up in price indefinitely, simply because ZOS turns the gear scene on it's head every few months. The rapid inflation of mats could very easily be solved by removing all the recent additions to earning transmutes. Not enough transmutes, no need to buy mats and the price on them will drop.. QED.Edited by Kwoung on April 19, 2021 7:38AM0 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Inflation would mean ALL goods are more expensive now but that isn't the truth. The only goods that are more expensive now are improvement mats which is caused by collection book, more people is eager to experiment with their equipment now and it's much easier. That's all. Everything else more or less stays on the same price level.
Simple economics, supply and demand.
indeed.
plus there's noproc cyro that forced a lot of pvpers to get new gear. and cp 2.0 with cp farming via master writs. I did 2500 of them and had to buy quite a few tempers.ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)2 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Inflation would mean ALL goods are more expensive now but that isn't the truth. The only goods that are more expensive now are improvement mats which is caused by collection book, more people is eager to experiment with their equipment now and it's much easier. That's all. Everything else more or less stays on the same price level.
Simple economics, supply and demand.
indeed.
plus there's noproc cyro that forced a lot of pvpers to get new gear. and cp 2.0 with cp farming via master writs. I did 2500 of them and had to buy quite a few tempers.
That's a lot! No idea how many I did, but I have about 8500 writ vouchers (or whatever they are called) now as well. Which BTW, also caused me to drop about 7 million on buying Motifs, which I am pretty sure didn't stabilize the motif market at all either. As a matter of fact, there are almost no motifs, even during the event, that were going anywhere near what TTC "suggested". If I didn't have access to ATT & MM, I would have thought everyone was trying to rip me off, but nope, that's what those things were actually selling for now!2 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Your suggestions would raise prices, because sellers would pass the costs along."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle7 -
Aaxc✭✭✭There is only one thing needed - a global acution house like guild store.
The game has outgrown small guild stores and needs combined general option.Edited by Aaxc on April 19, 2021 8:34AM4 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is only one thing needed - a global acution house like guild store.
The game has outgrown small guild stores and needs combined general option.
Please do not derail this thread. Feel free to necro one of the hundred others on that subject that has been repeatedly beaten to death already.16 -
Zodiarkslayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Preface: There is a reason this topic comes up every WEEK for the last two or three months. Maybe some people should be approaching the topic with some fresh openmindedness. Even if it is just for the sake of the discussion.Outside of gold improvers, jewelry mats, and XP items, where exactly are you seeing this inflation?
Motifs, Furnishings, Furnishing Plans. Overland Set pieces in divines or precise...
Mats in general: plants, upgrades mats (not just gold), raw mats...
The list is LOOOOOOOOOOOONGInflation would mean ALL goods are more expensive now but that isn't the truth. The only goods that are more expensive now are improvement mats which is caused by collection book, more people is eager to experiment with their equipment now and it's much easier. That's all. Everything else more or less stays on the same price level.
Simple economics, supply and demand.
Simple denial. Real world economic mechanics and theory and UNFIT to describe the guild trader system in ESO or any other game! STOP bringing supply and demand as an argument. Maybe 1% or less here on the forum even know what costs and prices are. Most people are unaware of real world economy and like to sum up the mass of unknown factors and mechanics to "supply and demand".
Economy is NOT SIMPLE! In the real world rising or falling oil prices are pushing consumer prices in general, even when the procuction or distribution is fairly uneffected by consumption of oil, gas or any related derivative of oil.Inflation would mean ALL goods are more expensive now but that isn't the truth. The only goods that are more expensive now are improvement mats which is caused by collection book, more people is eager to experiment with their equipment now and it's much easier. That's all. Everything else more or less stays on the same price level.
Simple economics, supply and demand.
Actually, the core of the issue isn't the sticker book, it is the incredibly easy access to transmute stones now to make use of it. The only thing stopping folks are mats, which will just continue to go up in price indefinitely, simply because ZOS turns the gear scene on it's head every few months. The rapid inflation of mats could very easily be solved by removing all the recent additions to earning transmutes. Not enough transmutes, no need to buy mats and the price on them will drop.. QED.
The view is too narrow. When was the stickerbook introduced? Half a year ago? A lot of people have it already completed and the other part of the player population does not care either way. Impact is minimal at this point. And the META sets have not changed a bit since Elseweyr Chapter release. Everybody, who has an interest in Trial sets and good base game sets has them in inventory anyway. At gold level and in the right traits. And for a long time.
The overabundance of transmutes has also a smaller effect, than you are implying. It is a side effect at best. The core of this side of the problem is the change of set standards (for example crit nerfs) and the major changes in armor passives, race passives and CP2.0, that created the need to change whole builds at once. For example, everyone is trying to run 7-0-0 instead of 5-1-1 now.
In my opinion the rising guild trader bets are the biggest driving factor. Some elite trading guilds have recently raised the bar, by a LOT. One guild actually made a break of one BILLION sales per week on PC/NA. A BILLION! Think about it: That gold has to come from somewhere. And the sales taxes on it go directly into the bet for next week. That is a pretty big snowball...
Conclusion: There is TOO much money circulating. @Oliviander is right...No Effort, No Reward?
No Reward, No Effort!1 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭Inflation would mean ALL goods are more expensive now but that isn't the truth. The only goods that are more expensive now are improvement mats which is caused by collection book, more people is eager to experiment with their equipment now and it's much easier. That's all. Everything else more or less stays on the same price level.
Simple economics, supply and demand.
indeed.
plus there's noproc cyro that forced a lot of pvpers to get new gear. and cp 2.0 with cp farming via master writs. I did 2500 of them and had to buy quite a few tempers.
That's a lot! No idea how many I did, but I have about 8500 writ vouchers (or whatever they are called) now as well. Which BTW, also caused me to drop about 7 million on buying Motifs, which I am pretty sure didn't stabilize the motif market at all either. As a matter of fact, there are almost no motifs, even during the event, that were going anywhere near what TTC "suggested". If I didn't have access to ATT & MM, I would have thought everyone was trying to rip me off, but nope, that's what those things were actually selling for now!
Ended up with a bit over 35000 writ vouchers.
Motifs did seem to loose value less this time around.
I blame those gold style pages. My hunch is they took the drop place of what used to be motif pages before. So instead tons of would be tasty motifs drops were worthless crap that is a nightmare to delete....ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)1 -
TheForFeeF✭✭✭I do think there needs to be a change to the trading system, but I don't think this is the correct way.
Personally, I think the best way would be an Auction House. People always bash this and complain that areas will then be empty, but that is just an unfortunate state of MMO progression. The other reason people bash the Auction House is because they are in/own Trading Guilds that control part of the economy and 100m isn't enough for them (just a figure of speech).
What an Auction House does is:
- Gets rid of price scalping
- People controlling the economy: Introduces competitive selling (arguably, the current system should do that in theory, but it really doesn't. You have traders in Vivec City putting prices as high as they can, yet you have traders in Grahtwood putting prices under market value).
- Making stuff hard-to-find, easy to find: No more going to TTC, finding an item posted 3 minutes ago for it to not be there anymore.
- Encouraging new players to sell/buy: You hear this a lot, but there are a lot of trading guilds that take advantage of newer players who don't know better. Charging them stupid amounts, only for the guild to kick them a day later. The free trading guilds don't really work either as they either ask for a stupid amount of sales per week, or end up dissolving before your items are sold. Granted there are some good ones out there, but they are all full.
The best way to get around the "areas will be empty issue" is to have an Auction House in each Zone's main city. It is that simple.
Honestly, the current trading system is designed to be taken advantage of. We are the only MMO that has this system, and it clearly doesn't work well at all. All the other MMOs have Auction Houses and I don't see nearly as many complaints about it compared to what I see about our system.Edited by TheForFeeF on April 19, 2021 9:54AM2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭" Gets rid of price scalping"
Would do the opposite. Now they have to consider over 200 vendors. With auction house check one spot and post your goods below what you see.
"You have traders in Vivec City putting prices as high as they can, yet you have traders in Grahtwood putting prices under market value"
that is competitive pricing. Players have a choice of looking for a better deal or saving time and paying more.
" Encouraging new players to sell/buy: You hear this a lot, but there are a lot of trading guilds that take advantage of newer players who don't know better. Charging them stupid amounts, only for the guild to kick them a day later. The free trading guilds don't really work either as they either ask for a stupid amount of sales per week, or end up dissolving before your items are sold. Granted there are some good ones out there, but they are all full."
If any of this happens it is extremely rare. I know there was one player that started a new guild charged people to join then left with the gold. He didn't last long though and his name got out as someone to avoid at all cost. There are many very good guilds that are actively seeking members. The system needs a few improvements but overall is a very good system driving a solid and healthy economy.
This system works very well. So well in fact entire guilds are built around it and a good portion of the players treat trading as their end game activity. Just like any other aspect of the game the more you put in the more you get out. An elite trader spends every bit as much time getting good at what they do as a trial group that runs for the leader board. Like trials there is a level for beginners and experts and a good way to progress.
Compared to the system we have now an auction house can be and will be easily manipulated.
Back to the OP suggestions. One thing they would do is increase the amount of goods sold in zone chat. Some people think that would be a good thing others not so much.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."10 -
Easily_Lost✭✭✭✭✭I was playing a game that had a central action house, I loved it because I would camp out at the auction house and check prices and buy up items that were priced low and resell them at a much higher price. It made my life easier. So YES lets get a central auction house.PC - NA - AD
started April 2015
PVE & Solo only
Meet the LOST family: CP 1250+
Easily Lost Crafter - lvl 50 - Sorcerer Orc ( knows all traits and most styles )
Easily Lost-W - lvl 50 - Warden Imperial
Forever Lost - lvl 50 Sorcerer
CROWN CRATES: It doesn't affect gameplay, it's not mandatory, it's cosmetic only. If it helps to support the game and ZOS, I support it! Say YES to crown crates.3 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Preface: There is a reason this topic comes up every WEEK for the last two or three months. Maybe some people should be approaching the topic with some fresh openmindedness. Even if it is just for the sake of the discussion.Outside of gold improvers, jewelry mats, and XP items, where exactly are you seeing this inflation?
Motifs, Furnishings, Furnishing Plans. Overland Set pieces in divines or precise...
Mats in general: plants, upgrades mats (not just gold), raw mats...
The list is LOOOOOOOOOOOONG
I also thought motifs were expensive, until I realized it was just the motifs I didn't have yet. When I look at traders on my alts, I see the normal prices that have always been subject to availability. Like, when the Antiquities system came out and the Ancestral leads would drop double when you got one, the motifs went down in price very quickly. When the bug was fixed, the prices went up again, but they are still on the lower end of motifs.
Furnishings as well. The furnishings I don't have yet (Solitude, Elsweyr, Clockwork) are the expensive ones. The stuff I already have and have doubles to sell is a lot cheaper.
Raw mats will fluctuate with improver prices.
I've not noticed purple or blue mats being much more expensive outside of jewelry mats, and even there, purple jewelry is not hard to acquire, so you can skip all that if you like and go straight to gold.
Plants have gone up and down, depending on what's happening in game. Some people think they need to use trial pots for everything. That's on them.
As for gear, I checked the Mother's Sorrow Inferno staff and they are still averaging at the same price as they were 2 years ago when I decided they were too expensive and farmed my own. Anyone that thinks something is too expensive can do that as well.
Now, wake me up when I'm able to sell soul gems and sanded maple above vendor price.
Personally, I think the problem is that people are buying gold with crowns and that makes them lose sight of the value of gold in the game and they are willing to pay higher prices.
But in the end, people buying things through the guild trader at higher prices takes more gold out of the economy, so that helps.
Like your example of a guild that sold 1 billion in items, between tax and listing fee, that took 45 million out of the game.
And that's not counting listing fees for things that didn't sell OR the trader bid.
The Moot Councillor2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I can't see a general inflationary tendency - there is just normal volatility following supply and demand - just let the market regulate itself for as long as there is no hyper-inflation - and so far there is no sign of it.
This said, there are still some remaining effects from the "reforge your character" event - it will even itself out though, just give it time.Edited by Lysette on April 19, 2021 1:17PM2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oliviander wrote: »At first - I really like the guild trader system and wouldn't want to change it in its basics.
But at the moment I see 2 problems in economics I would like to adress:
1. There is a substantial inflation going on - which indicates that there are to few gold sinks in the game.
Most games that I have played have seen substantial inflation over time. Even with a global sales store, there are overpriced items. Nothing new here and those games do not raise the fees since it will not have the effect some think it would. We can sell items without dealing with any of those feesEdited by Amottica on April 19, 2021 1:20PM1 -
JN_Slevin✭✭✭✭✭My idea to combat the way overpriced items would be like a "deposit". Go for like 30% of the listing price, which you get back once its sold. Then people have an incentive to actually sell their stuff.
Additionally different tax brackets for each guild would be very interesting, it could cause the good traders moving to lower areas to get a bigger cut of their sales.
And the inflation part, everything got more expensive. Atleast on PC-EU Kutas rose from ~2,1k to 2,8k since the beginning of the year. The bid prices went completely nuts. Materials rose even though there are more of them around since the new CP update. There is 100% a lack of goldsinks.
But i dont think its a good idea to put the burden of removing gold solely on trade guilds. I think the best idea would be to increase other goldsinks and add new ones.
I have been talking about this for years, but make a mount and sell it for 10-50m Gold. This mount will solely have the purpose of showing off once wealth.
Status symbols work, everyone wants to be "better" than their peers.
And if im being honest, i dont see that inflation going away anytime soon. And as we have seen, they cant just add more supply to combat it. This never works. Supply and demand will always catch up.
Work hard, and you will be rewarded. Spend wisely, and you will be comfortable. Never steal, or you will be punished.1 -
Ard01✭✭✭My idea to combat the way overpriced items would be like a "deposit". Go for like 30% of the listing price, which you get back once its sold. Then people have an incentive to actually sell their stuff.
Additionally different tax brackets for each guild would be very interesting, it could cause the good traders moving to lower areas to get a bigger cut of their sales.
And the inflation part, everything got more expensive. Atleast on PC-EU Kutas rose from ~2,1k to 2,8k since the beginning of the year. The bid prices went completely nuts. Materials rose even though there are more of them around since the new CP update. There is 100% a lack of goldsinks.
But i dont think its a good idea to put the burden of removing gold solely on trade guilds. I think the best idea would be to increase other goldsinks and add new ones.
I have been talking about this for years, but make a mount and sell it for 10-50m Gold. This mount will solely have the purpose of showing off once wealth.
Status symbols work, everyone wants to be "better" than their peers.
And if im being honest, i dont see that inflation going away anytime soon. And as we have seen, they cant just add more supply to combat it. This never works. Supply and demand will always catch up.
Tax brackets would just force more overland sales.
The best idea to date IMO has been to include real status/wealth items like multi-million dollar mounts and such. The game definitely needs a higher-in-game luxary item gold market.2 -
khyrkat✭✭✭✭I'm sure I will be bashed for this but... guild traders system is stupid and creates issues. There should be one accessible to everyone Auction House (let's make it an NPC in every main town, for the flavor) and that would eliminate for example TTC manipulations where items are posted at desired price for a while, just to update TTC and then taken down when the price is set. Let's pay 10% to AH for sale, let's pay 2% price for listing. Amount of gold guild owners make is just ridiculous. And trading guilds only encourage idiotic behavior like "we will kick you if you try to sell your 2mil gold worth thing outside of guild" suuuuuuure, coz you lose your cut and wont be able to buy this new house yes? Ridiculous. People doing stupid things to people and then complaining people do stupid things to people = logic failed.
True, there is not much to spend gold on (unless we count in those selling loot runs which actually should be eliminated), some mounts could be made available but again, in general Auction House so this eliminates most of manipulations. Like many say - sure, you can try to sell crowns at 1:1000 but we're not bound to buy at that price. General AH would regulate market better than guilds, not everyone checks TTC and if they do, not many are aware of price manipulations going on there.Edited by khyrkat on April 19, 2021 1:52PM2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Everything in this game can be gotten through gameplay. Nobody is "locked" out of getting anything themselves.
So, if prices are too high for you. Go farm it yourself. Then there will be more supply and prices will come down through a combination of more supply being introduced and less demand.
Things only sell at prices people are willing to pay for them.
System is working as intended.
And if you think guild owners are making oodles of gold... most guilds struggle to just pay the guild trader fees, most guild owners I know are putting their personal gold from their playing INTO the guild (thus losing gold).The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger70,730 achievement points11 -
Ard01✭✭✭Everything in this game can be gotten through gameplay. Nobody is "locked" out of getting anything themselves.
So, if prices are too high for you. Go farm it yourself. Then there will be more supply and prices will come down through a combination of more supply being introduced and less demand.
Things only sell at prices people are willing to pay for them.
System is working as intended.
And if you think guild owners are making oodles of gold... most guilds struggle to just pay the guild trader fees, most guild owners I know are putting their personal gold from their playing INTO the guild (thus losing gold).
^ Absolute truth!
Go join some trade guilds if you do not believe this. I would bet even money the majority maintain their trade spot via personal game gold from the GMs themselves. Most I know do just that.
Edited by Ard01 on April 19, 2021 2:02PM4