Can MDK get 1 (one) burst damage ability in the next test cycle?

Bashev · April 2021

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Let’s compare Subterranean Assault to deep breath. Both delayed burst skills.

Subterranean Assault
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 20 meters
Cost: 2066 Stamina
Skill description
Stir a group of shalk that attack after 3 seconds, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you. After the shalk complete their attack, they burrow again for 3 seconds and then resurface again, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you.
New effect
Converts to a Stamina ability and deals Poison Damage. The shalk burrow after attacking, and attack again after a delay.

Deep Breath
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 4050 Magicka
Skill description
Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, dealing 870 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 100% of the damage caused. Any enemy hit that is casting is interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 2 seconds. After 2.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing 2249 Flame Damage to nearby enemies.
New effect
Initial hit interrupts enemies that are casting. Final explosion damage increased.

Subterranean Assault cost almost 50% less then Deep Breath and does almost twice as much damage as Deep breath and can be preloaded until Deep breath. Plus, Subterranean Assault has a meter range vs. 8 for deep breath and the 2nd cast is free. So much for standardized skills.

Just for [snip] and giggles here is Necro’s delayed homer missile skill compares.

Blighted Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2295 Stamina
Skill description
Summon a decaying skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 4737 Disease Damage to all enemies nearby and applying Major Defile to them for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 16% Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Disease Damage. Reduces healing received on enemies hit.

Stalking Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2700 Magicka
Skill description
Summon a flaming skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 3600 Flame Damage to all enemies nearby. Every second the skeleton spends chasing its target increases the damage of the explosion by 10%, up to a maximum of 50% more damage. Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
The skeleton deals more damage the longer it chases the target.

Don't know about you but I think I can spot a little bit difference in new class vs. old classes.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Most people know very well how these skills are not comparable to deep breath they just dont want another class buffed as they dont play it.

Then when people start asking for nerfs you will see exactly the same people saying why do you want to nerf a skill? It is better to ask for buffs for other skills.

Rhaegar75 · April 2021

Sadly magdks cannot be compared to Wardens or Necros....both classes are simply much stronger.
Yes, there are some very good magdks out there but the class itself cannot compete with necros and above all wardens.
They simply can do everything we do but better and with less effort.
I don’t see things changing anytime soon....sadly

Chilly-McFreeze · April 2021

Bashev wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Let’s compare Subterranean Assault to deep breath. Both delayed burst skills.

Subterranean Assault
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 20 meters
Cost: 2066 Stamina
Skill description
Stir a group of shalk that attack after 3 seconds, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you. After the shalk complete their attack, they burrow again for 3 seconds and then resurface again, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you.
New effect
Converts to a Stamina ability and deals Poison Damage. The shalk burrow after attacking, and attack again after a delay.

Deep Breath
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 4050 Magicka
Skill description
Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, dealing 870 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 100% of the damage caused. Any enemy hit that is casting is interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 2 seconds. After 2.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing 2249 Flame Damage to nearby enemies.
New effect
Initial hit interrupts enemies that are casting. Final explosion damage increased.

Subterranean Assault cost almost 50% less then Deep Breath and does almost twice as much damage as Deep breath and can be preloaded until Deep breath. Plus, Subterranean Assault has a meter range vs. 8 for deep breath and the 2nd cast is free. So much for standardized skills.

Just for [snip] and giggles here is Necro’s delayed homer missile skill compares.

Blighted Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2295 Stamina
Skill description
Summon a decaying skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 4737 Disease Damage to all enemies nearby and applying Major Defile to them for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 16% Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Disease Damage. Reduces healing received on enemies hit.

Stalking Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2700 Magicka
Skill description
Summon a flaming skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 3600 Flame Damage to all enemies nearby. Every second the skeleton spends chasing its target increases the damage of the explosion by 10%, up to a maximum of 50% more damage. Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
The skeleton deals more damage the longer it chases the target.

Don't know about you but I think I can spot a little bit difference in new class vs. old classes.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Most people know very well how these skills are not comparable to deep breath they just dont want another class buffed as they dont play it.

Then when people start asking for nerfs you will see exactly the same people saying why do you want to nerf a skill? It is better to ask for buffs for other skills.

The comaprison is scewed as those skills are not on the same level, I agree. However, I think most people don't want to see the game flooded with overpowered abilities like Blastbones in the first place. It's still beyond me how ZOS can leave Cros in the state they are for so long.

What's your idea on Deep Breath? Simply add more damage or a different mechanic?

WaltherCarraway · April 2021

The last Legends duel tourney,
A very good magdk finished in 5th, he lost to a very good stamplar who placed in 2nd.

Yuuge problem going on rn I guess people yet recovered from the fear of 14’ magDK restro vamplord stuff. Oh and the ‘permablock’ snb magDK spamming expensive wings that ‘reflect everything’. No one wants 20+meters fossilize, evasion ash cloud, or wings that could reflect a snip meteor back lololol. Give magdk a reliable class HOT don’t even have to be an execute or MLG pro burstie stuff jeez.

Hotdog_23 · April 2021

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Let’s compare Subterranean Assault to deep breath. Both delayed burst skills.

Subterranean Assault
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 20 meters
Cost: 2066 Stamina
Skill description
Stir a group of shalk that attack after 3 seconds, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you. After the shalk complete their attack, they burrow again for 3 seconds and then resurface again, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you.
New effect
Converts to a Stamina ability and deals Poison Damage. The shalk burrow after attacking, and attack again after a delay.

Deep Breath
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 4050 Magicka
Skill description
Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, dealing 870 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 100% of the damage caused. Any enemy hit that is casting is interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 2 seconds. After 2.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing 2249 Flame Damage to nearby enemies.
New effect
Initial hit interrupts enemies that are casting. Final explosion damage increased.

Subterranean Assault cost almost 50% less then Deep Breath and does almost twice as much damage as Deep breath and can be preloaded until Deep breath. Plus, Subterranean Assault has a meter range vs. 8 for deep breath and the 2nd cast is free. So much for standardized skills.

Just for [snip] and giggles here is Necro’s delayed homer missile skill compares.

Blighted Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2295 Stamina
Skill description
Summon a decaying skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 4737 Disease Damage to all enemies nearby and applying Major Defile to them for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 16% Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Disease Damage. Reduces healing received on enemies hit.

Stalking Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2700 Magicka
Skill description
Summon a flaming skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 3600 Flame Damage to all enemies nearby. Every second the skeleton spends chasing its target increases the damage of the explosion by 10%, up to a maximum of 50% more damage. Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
The skeleton deals more damage the longer it chases the target.

Don't know about you but I think I can spot a little bit difference in new class vs. old classes.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Most people know very well how these skills are not comparable to deep breath they just dont want another class buffed as they dont play it.

Then when people start asking for nerfs you will see exactly the same people saying why do you want to nerf a skill? It is better to ask for buffs for other skills.

The comaprison is scewed as those skills are not on the same level, I agree. However, I think most people don't want to see the game flooded with overpowered abilities like Blastbones in the first place. It's still beyond me how ZOS can leave Cros in the state they are for so long.

What's your idea on Deep Breath? Simply add more damage or a different mechanic?

My idea

Change magic damage to fire for magic morph and physical damage for stamina morph. Get rid of the target requirement and allow DK to preload the damage like other classes. Decrease the cost and increase the damage to make it comparable to Stalks and blastbones. Would be a nice place to start.

Since skills are supposed to be standard but looks like ZOS forgot about deep inhale and it's morphs. I guess since no one uses it hardly ever it didn’t show up on their spreadsheets when they standardized all the skills.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

MurderMostFoul · April 2021

How about this, turn x3 whip into x2 whip. +50% per arden flame cast, max 2 stacks.

Bashev · April 2021

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Let’s compare Subterranean Assault to deep breath. Both delayed burst skills.

Subterranean Assault
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 20 meters
Cost: 2066 Stamina
Skill description
Stir a group of shalk that attack after 3 seconds, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you. After the shalk complete their attack, they burrow again for 3 seconds and then resurface again, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you.
New effect
Converts to a Stamina ability and deals Poison Damage. The shalk burrow after attacking, and attack again after a delay.

Deep Breath
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 4050 Magicka
Skill description
Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, dealing 870 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 100% of the damage caused. Any enemy hit that is casting is interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 2 seconds. After 2.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing 2249 Flame Damage to nearby enemies.
New effect
Initial hit interrupts enemies that are casting. Final explosion damage increased.

Subterranean Assault cost almost 50% less then Deep Breath and does almost twice as much damage as Deep breath and can be preloaded until Deep breath. Plus, Subterranean Assault has a meter range vs. 8 for deep breath and the 2nd cast is free. So much for standardized skills.

Just for [snip] and giggles here is Necro’s delayed homer missile skill compares.

Blighted Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2295 Stamina
Skill description
Summon a decaying skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 4737 Disease Damage to all enemies nearby and applying Major Defile to them for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 16% Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Disease Damage. Reduces healing received on enemies hit.

Stalking Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2700 Magicka
Skill description
Summon a flaming skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 3600 Flame Damage to all enemies nearby. Every second the skeleton spends chasing its target increases the damage of the explosion by 10%, up to a maximum of 50% more damage. Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
The skeleton deals more damage the longer it chases the target.

Don't know about you but I think I can spot a little bit difference in new class vs. old classes.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Most people know very well how these skills are not comparable to deep breath they just dont want another class buffed as they dont play it.

Then when people start asking for nerfs you will see exactly the same people saying why do you want to nerf a skill? It is better to ask for buffs for other skills.

The comaprison is scewed as those skills are not on the same level, I agree. However, I think most people don't want to see the game flooded with overpowered abilities like Blastbones in the first place. It's still beyond me how ZOS can leave Cros in the state they are for so long.

What's your idea on Deep Breath? Simply add more damage or a different mechanic?

My idea? I kind of stopped caring for mDK long time ago. The supremacy of that class with the dynamic ulti broke vampire and soft caps brought pretty sad future for the class.

Here is a topic that I created long time ago --> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404434/dks-robbed-again/p1

All nice skills from DK were taken and gave to other classes. The class was designed for a gameplay that does not even exists.

Back in 2014 all magicka classes were extremely good. The only exception was the battle roar passive which made mDK the best. Only that passive had to be adjusted.

Just a reminder:

4 ulti clouding bat sorcs, streaking non stop
perma block magicka DKs
SAP essence mNBs with 2-3 overlayed darkness ultis
Blinding flash templars

Joy_Division · April 2021

Bashev wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Let’s compare Subterranean Assault to deep breath. Both delayed burst skills.

Subterranean Assault
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 20 meters
Cost: 2066 Stamina
Skill description
Stir a group of shalk that attack after 3 seconds, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you. After the shalk complete their attack, they burrow again for 3 seconds and then resurface again, dealing 4264 Poison Damage to enemies in front of you.
New effect
Converts to a Stamina ability and deals Poison Damage. The shalk burrow after attacking, and attack again after a delay.

Deep Breath
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Range: Radius: 8 meters
Cost: 4050 Magicka
Skill description
Channel draconic energy to suck in the air around you, dealing 870 Magic Damage to nearby enemies and healing you for 100% of the damage caused. Any enemy hit that is casting is interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 2 seconds. After 2.5 seconds, you exhale fire, dealing 2249 Flame Damage to nearby enemies.
New effect
Initial hit interrupts enemies that are casting. Final explosion damage increased.

Subterranean Assault cost almost 50% less then Deep Breath and does almost twice as much damage as Deep breath and can be preloaded until Deep breath. Plus, Subterranean Assault has a meter range vs. 8 for deep breath and the 2nd cast is free. So much for standardized skills.

Just for [snip] and giggles here is Necro’s delayed homer missile skill compares.

Blighted Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2295 Stamina
Skill description
Summon a decaying skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 4737 Disease Damage to all enemies nearby and applying Major Defile to them for 4 seconds, reducing their healing received and Health Recovery by 16% Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
Converts into a Stamina ability and deals Disease Damage. Reduces healing received on enemies hit.

Stalking Blastbones
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Enemy
Range: Maximum range: 28 meters, Radius: 6 meters
Cost: 2700 Magicka
Skill description
Summon a flaming skeleton from the ground after 2.5 seconds. The skeleton runs after the target and explodes when it gets close to them, dealing 3600 Flame Damage to all enemies nearby. Every second the skeleton spends chasing its target increases the damage of the explosion by 10%, up to a maximum of 50% more damage. Creates a corpse on death.
New effect
The skeleton deals more damage the longer it chases the target.

Don't know about you but I think I can spot a little bit difference in new class vs. old classes.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

Most people know very well how these skills are not comparable to deep breath they just dont want another class buffed as they dont play it.

Then when people start asking for nerfs you will see exactly the same people saying why do you want to nerf a skill? It is better to ask for buffs for other skills.

The comaprison is scewed as those skills are not on the same level, I agree. However, I think most people don't want to see the game flooded with overpowered abilities like Blastbones in the first place. It's still beyond me how ZOS can leave Cros in the state they are for so long.

What's your idea on Deep Breath? Simply add more damage or a different mechanic?

My idea? I kind of stopped caring for mDK long time ago. The supremacy of that class with the dynamic ulti broke vampire and soft caps brought pretty sad future for the class.

Here is a topic that I created long time ago --> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/404434/dks-robbed-again/p1

All nice skills from DK were taken and gave to other classes. The class was designed for a gameplay that does not even exists.

Back in 2014 all magicka classes were extremely good. The only exception was the battle roar passive which made mDK the best. Only that passive had to be adjusted.

Just a reminder:
4 ulti clouding bat sorcs, streaking non stop

perma block magicka DKs

SAP essence mNBs with 2-3 overlayed darkness ultis

Blinding flash templars

Mostly yes, but once 4 ulti bat sorc got bug-fixed, the class was bottom-tier until the 1.6 changes.

MagDK and Magplar are forever going to suffer the whims of the ZOs developers and wildly fluctuate from being anywhere from "pretty good" to "throw your computer out the window frustrating" depending on what overall combat mechanics the devs toy with from patch to patch. Mostly because how good they are is primarily dependent on gear and stuff outside their class kit, since the later is filled with awkward skills designed for the game at launch which bears little resemblance to how the game is played today.
.
Meanwhile, specs like Mag Sorcs and Stamdens will always be strong since they're not reliant on gear or the overly complicated combos people came up with on the first page or just bad skills like Purifying Light.

I played for 2 and one half hours last night and according to my kill counter, got credit for 146 kills. Through all of that, I failed to finish the "kill 20 DK quest." In fact, I only got to 12. The only two times I have ever gone a night without failing to finish at least one klll quest was back when the Warden quest was bugged and again back in 1.5 when just a few die-hards played sorc.

I long ago stopped playing DK because the class ceased being fun for me so I don;t have any specific insight as to why people are instead playing something else. But I can;t say I am surprised. This patch is about an anti-DK as it comes: no procs to cover class weaknesses coupled with high health and strong heals mean kills pretty much got to be fast 100% to 0%.
That's not what the DK was ever designed to do (even when it's in a good place).

If DK mains want to come here and boast about how good they are and that they can still perform at a high level, by all means don;t let me stop ZOS from listening to what I think are sound arguments why a class I don;t play should be buffed. Knock yourself out.

Urzigurumash · April 2021

Joy_Division wrote: »

I played for 2 and one half hours last night and according to my kill counter, got credit for 146 kills. Through all of that, I failed to finish the "kill 20 DK quest." In fact, I only got to 12. The only two times I have ever gone a night without failing to finish at least one klll quest was back when the Warden quest was bugged and again back in 1.5 when just a few die-hards played sorc.

Bit off-topic, but yesterday we had a DK Tank Emp on Xbox NA. In my opposing faction zone chat, people were wondering why this Emp was playing as a tank, but nobody answered my question - has another DK emped in No Procrodiil, on any server? To me it made quite a bit of sense that the first DK Emp in No Procrodiil on my server (afaik) got there as a Tank. Granted I would've re-specced at that point to dish out massive Leaps, but, like it or not, DK is fundamentally a Tank class.

I assumed in the No Proc environment that the 4 base classes would revert to their 4 base roles, but this is just one example, I'm not entirely sure this has happened.

LightYagami · April 2021

Bashev wrote: »

Most of the posts here are from people who never played mDK seriously. OP knows what he is talking.

200% agreed.

Some people don't have experience of mgadks but keep saying magdks are over powered or so.

To be fair, Just look at death recaps.
How often do people see magdks on their death recaps?

I mainly play magdk in PvP, I have some PvP alts like stamden, stamblade, magsorc. Magdk is the least viable even it's the toon I spent the longest the with.

Like I always say, the real problem of magdk is a combination of different problems. The synergy of the problems is just a disaster.

Think about that, it is a class with the following characteristics in PvP:

Low mobility,
Melee range,
No execution and lack of burst,
Mainly use DoT and DoT can be purged,
High cost (using alt to refill attribute bars it's good because you have to manage the time to use alt to burst people down).
Continuous nerfs.

Some other classes also have a few problems, but magdks have all the problems TOGETHER.

That's why we don't usually see magdks in PvP, Especially on death recaps.

People still complaining magdks are over powered, please honestly answer yourself, how often do you see magdks skills on your death recap comparing to other classes, especially in grey host Cyrodiil and high MMR BGs.

Edit: typo

Theignson · April 2021

shalks, blastbones and crystal weapon give the delayed skills that allow bursts that neither stam DK nor Mag DK can match.

But still can be fun to play these classes. The lockdown from talons/fossilize is strong as is leap. You can also build for more heavy armor now and be tankier.

ketsparrowhawk · April 2021

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

MurderMostFoul · April 2021

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Whip stacking was extremely effective for me for about my first 5 BGs. When I started getting matched against higher MMR players, and it became way less doable and practice. Too much mobility, too many dodges, all of this delaying your stacks, while you are being pressured. Then you hit them, they're at 50% or lower HP, but if you don't have your ultimate up, they can just get on the defensive and heal right back up. And if the fight drags on, their teammates inevitably show up.

ketsparrowhawk · April 2021

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Whip stacking was extremely effective for me for about my first 5 BGs. When I started getting matched against higher MMR players, and it became way less doable and practice. Too much mobility, too many dodges, all of this delaying your stacks, while you are being pressured. Then you hit them, they're at 50% or lower HP, but if you don't have your ultimate up, they can just get on the defensive and heal right back up. And if the fight drags on, their teammates inevitably show up.

This this a high MMR char. Typically going up against caliban, akean and the like. I land the whip more often than my sorc lands frags, and way more often than my magblade lands the spectral bow, that’s for sure. Even my wardens have a hard time landing sub assault against skilled players. And what’s nice about molten whip is if they do dodge it, you still keep the stacks! Just cast it again after their dodge is complete and you’ll land the full 3-stack whip. And the pressure from torugs and my dots keeps them from recovering too easily. I don’t rely on my ult for kills at all.

Veg · April 2021

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

[Edit to remove bait]

ketsparrowhawk · April 2021

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Veg · April 2021

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

[Edit to remove bait]

ketsparrowhawk · April 2021

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.
[/b]

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

Veg · April 2021

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

It doesn't matter if a skill is a class skill or not. If impulse did double damage to targets under 50% health then mag DKs would have burst damage. If mag builds had proc sets like frenzied momentum and ashen grip then mag DK's would again have burst damage.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability.

The little bonus clip is exactly what happens to your build. You need a way to heal while attacking as a mag DK. Molten whip gets rid of that.

IAmIcehouse · April 2021

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability...

God forbid classes have their own identity, right? The game would be more fun if every class played the exact same.

If you want burst on 3s cd, then don't play MagDK. If you want to play a certain playstyle, pick a class that excels in that playstyle. Don't try to make every class the exact same. All these forum posts are comparing class "weaknesses" to other classes strengths. They're different classes for a reason.

If we think MagDK is underperforming, then buff tooltips don't change how the class plays so it's just a fiery warden.

ketsparrowhawk · April 2021

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

It doesn't matter if a skill is a class skill or not. If impulse did double damage to targets under 50% health then mag DKs would have burst damage. If mag builds had proc sets like frenzied momentum and ashen grip then mag DK's would again have burst damage.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability.

The little bonus clip is exactly what happens to your build. You need a way to heal while attacking as a mag DK. Molten whip gets rid of that.

I know exactly what happens to my build because I play it all the time lol. And again, you would have gotten that same result on any other build. You would have died just the same playing as a stamsorc. Being a DK wasn’t even a factor in your clip. I don’t want to devolve into a stam vs mag discussion because that’s not the topic of this thread.

Nightblade has to essentially cast 5 abilities before they can deliver their burst. Templars have to wait 6 seconds while dealing damage. Even magsorcs require a bit of setup. And you’re actually not correct about molten whip. You can just stand back and cast cauterize (or engulfing flames) 3 times to generate all 3 stacks (in a BG you’re basically in combat at all times), then attack someone with all of your burst up-front. But that wouldn’t be smart.. better to whittle them down a little first, CC, then burst. And if they don’t die.. only 3 seconds to recharge your burst?? NB’s would enjoy that I bet.

And you may see it as sacrificing your whole front bar.. but to me they’re all skills I’d be using anyway. Are sorcs “sacrificing” their front bar in order to deliver their curse/fury/frags combo? Gotta have a spammable too so that’s just one flex spot left.

Cauterize, regen, and burning embers give me a good amount of in-combat heals. And coag blood is insanely strong this patch.

ketsparrowhawk · April 2021

Veg wrote: »

If mag builds had proc sets like frenzied momentum and ashen grip then mag DK's would again have burst damage.

Before this patch my mDK was using overwhelming surge, grothdarr, brp staff, MA resto, and malacath. A very strong proc build that generated tons of hate whispers. It may not look like “burst” on paper but believe me.. most people couldn’t even survive long enough for me to try and land my whip. I just didn’t like it because I didn’t feel like I was really playing the class. But if you want a mag proc setup you might give that a try. I had a great time with it for a while.

Veg · April 2021

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability...

God forbid classes have their own identity, right? The game would be more fun if every class played the exact same.

If you want burst on 3s cd, then don't play MagDK. If you want to play a certain playstyle, pick a class that excels in that playstyle. Don't try to make every class the exact same. All these forum posts are comparing class "weaknesses" to other classes strengths. They're different classes for a reason.

If we think MagDK is underperforming, then buff tooltips don't change how the class plays so it's just a fiery warden.

Giving mag DK 1 new burst damage ability does not make them the same as every other class. still no mobility and needing to heal through your own damage dealing. only thing that would change is that mag DKs cant just be danced around while they do mediocre damage.

The ideal fix would be replacing stone fist with a timed aoe burst or reworking deep breath to perform that function instead of healing. Even making flames of oblivion do its damage in aoe form would kinda work.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

It doesn't matter if a skill is a class skill or not. If impulse did double damage to targets under 50% health then mag DKs would have burst damage. If mag builds had proc sets like frenzied momentum and ashen grip then mag DK's would again have burst damage.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability.

The little bonus clip is exactly what happens to your build. You need a way to heal while attacking as a mag DK. Molten whip gets rid of that.

I know exactly what happens to my build because I play it all the time lol. And again, you would have gotten that same result on any other build. You would have died just the same playing as a stamsorc. Being a DK wasn’t even a factor in your clip. I don’t want to devolve into a stam vs mag discussion because that’s not the topic of this thread.

Nightblade has to essentially cast 5 abilities before they can deliver their burst. Templars have to wait 6 seconds while dealing damage. Even magsorcs require a bit of setup. And you’re actually not correct about molten whip. You can just stand back and cast cauterize (or engulfing flames) 3 times to generate all 3 stacks (in a BG you’re basically in combat at all times), then attack someone with all of your burst up-front. But that wouldn’t be smart.. better to whittle them down a little first, CC, then burst. And if they don’t die.. only 3 seconds to recharge your burst?? NB’s would enjoy that I bet.

And you may see it as sacrificing your whole front bar.. but to me they’re all skills I’d be using anyway. Are sorcs “sacrificing” their front bar in order to deliver their curse/fury/frags combo? Gotta have a spammable too so that’s just one flex spot left.

Cauterize, regen, and burning embers give me a good amount of in-combat heals. And coag blood is insanely strong this patch.

That's kinda the point. Other classes have gotten so much burst damage that they can straight up shut anyone down instantly. Mag DK's have to compete with this. its insane.

As for you slotting chains, and the 2 dots and whip on 1 bar... that speaks to your mag DK pvp experience.

ketsparrowhawk · April 2021

Veg wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability...

God forbid classes have their own identity, right? The game would be more fun if every class played the exact same.

If you want burst on 3s cd, then don't play MagDK. If you want to play a certain playstyle, pick a class that excels in that playstyle. Don't try to make every class the exact same. All these forum posts are comparing class "weaknesses" to other classes strengths. They're different classes for a reason.

If we think MagDK is underperforming, then buff tooltips don't change how the class plays so it's just a fiery warden.

Giving mag DK 1 new burst damage ability does not make them the same as every other class. still no mobility and needing to heal through your own damage dealing. only thing that would change is that mag DKs cant just be danced around while they do mediocre damage.

The ideal fix would be replacing stone fist with a timed aoe burst or reworking deep breath to perform that function instead of healing. Even making flames of oblivion do its damage in aoe form would kinda work.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

It doesn't matter if a skill is a class skill or not. If impulse did double damage to targets under 50% health then mag DKs would have burst damage. If mag builds had proc sets like frenzied momentum and ashen grip then mag DK's would again have burst damage.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability.

The little bonus clip is exactly what happens to your build. You need a way to heal while attacking as a mag DK. Molten whip gets rid of that.

I know exactly what happens to my build because I play it all the time lol. And again, you would have gotten that same result on any other build. You would have died just the same playing as a stamsorc. Being a DK wasn’t even a factor in your clip. I don’t want to devolve into a stam vs mag discussion because that’s not the topic of this thread.

Nightblade has to essentially cast 5 abilities before they can deliver their burst. Templars have to wait 6 seconds while dealing damage. Even magsorcs require a bit of setup. And you’re actually not correct about molten whip. You can just stand back and cast cauterize (or engulfing flames) 3 times to generate all 3 stacks (in a BG you’re basically in combat at all times), then attack someone with all of your burst up-front. But that wouldn’t be smart.. better to whittle them down a little first, CC, then burst. And if they don’t die.. only 3 seconds to recharge your burst?? NB’s would enjoy that I bet.

And you may see it as sacrificing your whole front bar.. but to me they’re all skills I’d be using anyway. Are sorcs “sacrificing” their front bar in order to deliver their curse/fury/frags combo? Gotta have a spammable too so that’s just one flex spot left.

Cauterize, regen, and burning embers give me a good amount of in-combat heals. And coag blood is insanely strong this patch.

That's kinda the point. Other classes have gotten so much burst damage that they can straight up shut anyone down instantly. Mag DK's have to compete with this. its insane.

As for you slotting chains, and the 2 dots and whip on 1 bar... that speaks to your mag DK pvp experience.

Edit because my original comment was potentially inflammatory.

Care to elaborate on what’s wrong with my bar? And what my experience must be like?

One of us is claiming to have a bad magDK experience.

One of us is claiming to have a good magDK experience.

One would assume the person having a good experience is doing something right but idk.

Veg · April 2021

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability...

God forbid classes have their own identity, right? The game would be more fun if every class played the exact same.

If you want burst on 3s cd, then don't play MagDK. If you want to play a certain playstyle, pick a class that excels in that playstyle. Don't try to make every class the exact same. All these forum posts are comparing class "weaknesses" to other classes strengths. They're different classes for a reason.

If we think MagDK is underperforming, then buff tooltips don't change how the class plays so it's just a fiery warden.

Giving mag DK 1 new burst damage ability does not make them the same as every other class. still no mobility and needing to heal through your own damage dealing. only thing that would change is that mag DKs cant just be danced around while they do mediocre damage.

The ideal fix would be replacing stone fist with a timed aoe burst or reworking deep breath to perform that function instead of healing. Even making flames of oblivion do its damage in aoe form would kinda work.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

It doesn't matter if a skill is a class skill or not. If impulse did double damage to targets under 50% health then mag DKs would have burst damage. If mag builds had proc sets like frenzied momentum and ashen grip then mag DK's would again have burst damage.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability.

The little bonus clip is exactly what happens to your build. You need a way to heal while attacking as a mag DK. Molten whip gets rid of that.

I know exactly what happens to my build because I play it all the time lol. And again, you would have gotten that same result on any other build. You would have died just the same playing as a stamsorc. Being a DK wasn’t even a factor in your clip. I don’t want to devolve into a stam vs mag discussion because that’s not the topic of this thread.

Nightblade has to essentially cast 5 abilities before they can deliver their burst. Templars have to wait 6 seconds while dealing damage. Even magsorcs require a bit of setup. And you’re actually not correct about molten whip. You can just stand back and cast cauterize (or engulfing flames) 3 times to generate all 3 stacks (in a BG you’re basically in combat at all times), then attack someone with all of your burst up-front. But that wouldn’t be smart.. better to whittle them down a little first, CC, then burst. And if they don’t die.. only 3 seconds to recharge your burst?? NB’s would enjoy that I bet.

And you may see it as sacrificing your whole front bar.. but to me they’re all skills I’d be using anyway. Are sorcs “sacrificing” their front bar in order to deliver their curse/fury/frags combo? Gotta have a spammable too so that’s just one flex spot left.

Cauterize, regen, and burning embers give me a good amount of in-combat heals. And coag blood is insanely strong this patch.

That's kinda the point. Other classes have gotten so much burst damage that they can straight up shut anyone down instantly. Mag DK's have to compete with this. its insane.

As for you slotting chains, and the 2 dots and whip on 1 bar... that speaks to your mag DK pvp experience.

Edit because my original comment was potentially inflammatory.

Care to elaborate on what’s wrong with my bar?

I'd love to. I do mean this purely for discussion and not in an inflammatory way (if that's possible on these forums). The mag DK class has to deal all its damage over time throughout a fight. So no popping people to execute range at the get go. Even more so for molten whip. This leaves your targets with time to heal, move out of line of sight or otherwise mitigate your damage. This will almost 100% result in you taking more damage than your can deal in the first 2-4 seconds of a fight. That clip I posted is a staple example of a mag DK built for damage with little thought for a strong defense. Unfortunately we fall into the "hold your ground" meme. This actually wasn't so bad for stam builds that would hide in their caltrops and wait for their targets to come to them but mag DK's lack anyway to gain the advantage in a fight by holding their ground.

Your bar certainly has the potential to deal great damage. The problem is that you lack the openings to deal that damage. Now lets take my build (It's pretty standard). I get a 4k aoe damage and heal from crimson, 1.5k-2k damage per second from vateshran, the same unavoidable stun but a spammable that will heal me every time I stun the target. Its certainly isn't the greatest damage but I don't run the risk of getting out damaged and killed by my opponent outside of crazy bursts like the stam sorc. My down fall is that everyone I fight plays to their advantage. Even the stam sorc teleporting into me and blasting off 5 attacks is playing to their advantage.

There is no advantage to "holding your ground" as the devs would say. At least not right now. If we could fire off and aoe burst to anyone that that tries to pressure us too much then things would be different. Thats why I want to see stone fist, wings or inhale changed to a burst damage ability that challenges shalk or blastbones.

ketsparrowhawk · April 2021

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability...

God forbid classes have their own identity, right? The game would be more fun if every class played the exact same.

If you want burst on 3s cd, then don't play MagDK. If you want to play a certain playstyle, pick a class that excels in that playstyle. Don't try to make every class the exact same. All these forum posts are comparing class "weaknesses" to other classes strengths. They're different classes for a reason.

If we think MagDK is underperforming, then buff tooltips don't change how the class plays so it's just a fiery warden.

Giving mag DK 1 new burst damage ability does not make them the same as every other class. still no mobility and needing to heal through your own damage dealing. only thing that would change is that mag DKs cant just be danced around while they do mediocre damage.

The ideal fix would be replacing stone fist with a timed aoe burst or reworking deep breath to perform that function instead of healing. Even making flames of oblivion do its damage in aoe form would kinda work.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

It doesn't matter if a skill is a class skill or not. If impulse did double damage to targets under 50% health then mag DKs would have burst damage. If mag builds had proc sets like frenzied momentum and ashen grip then mag DK's would again have burst damage.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability.

The little bonus clip is exactly what happens to your build. You need a way to heal while attacking as a mag DK. Molten whip gets rid of that.

I know exactly what happens to my build because I play it all the time lol. And again, you would have gotten that same result on any other build. You would have died just the same playing as a stamsorc. Being a DK wasn’t even a factor in your clip. I don’t want to devolve into a stam vs mag discussion because that’s not the topic of this thread.

Nightblade has to essentially cast 5 abilities before they can deliver their burst. Templars have to wait 6 seconds while dealing damage. Even magsorcs require a bit of setup. And you’re actually not correct about molten whip. You can just stand back and cast cauterize (or engulfing flames) 3 times to generate all 3 stacks (in a BG you’re basically in combat at all times), then attack someone with all of your burst up-front. But that wouldn’t be smart.. better to whittle them down a little first, CC, then burst. And if they don’t die.. only 3 seconds to recharge your burst?? NB’s would enjoy that I bet.

And you may see it as sacrificing your whole front bar.. but to me they’re all skills I’d be using anyway. Are sorcs “sacrificing” their front bar in order to deliver their curse/fury/frags combo? Gotta have a spammable too so that’s just one flex spot left.

Cauterize, regen, and burning embers give me a good amount of in-combat heals. And coag blood is insanely strong this patch.

That's kinda the point. Other classes have gotten so much burst damage that they can straight up shut anyone down instantly. Mag DK's have to compete with this. its insane.

As for you slotting chains, and the 2 dots and whip on 1 bar... that speaks to your mag DK pvp experience.

Edit because my original comment was potentially inflammatory.

Care to elaborate on what’s wrong with my bar?

I'd love to. I do mean this purely for discussion and not in an inflammatory way (if that's possible on these forums). The mag DK class has to deal all its damage over time throughout a fight. So no popping people to execute range at the get go. Even more so for molten whip. This leaves your targets with time to heal, move out of line of sight or otherwise mitigate your damage. This will almost 100% result in you taking more damage than your can deal in the first 2-4 seconds of a fight. That clip I posted is a staple example of a mag DK built for damage with little thought for a strong defense. Unfortunately we fall into the "hold your ground" meme. This actually wasn't so bad for stam builds that would hide in their caltrops and wait for their targets to come to them but mag DK's lack anyway to gain the advantage in a fight by holding their ground.

Your bar certainly has the potential to deal great damage. The problem is that you lack the openings to deal that damage. Now lets take my build (It's pretty standard). I get a 4k aoe damage and heal from crimson, 1.5k-2k damage per second from vateshran, the same unavoidable stun but a spammable that will heal me every time I stun the target. Its certainly isn't the greatest damage but I don't run the risk of getting out damaged and killed by my opponent outside of crazy bursts like the stam sorc. My down fall is that everyone I fight plays to their advantage. Even the stam sorc teleporting into me and blasting off 5 attacks is playing to their advantage.

There is no advantage to "holding your ground" as the devs would say. At least not right now. If we could fire off and aoe burst to anyone that that tries to pressure us too much then things would be different. Thats why I want to see stone fist, wings or inhale changed to a burst damage ability that challenges shalk or blastbones.

Honestly those things are not a huge issue for me. By the time I gap close, apply dots and fossilize (while LA weaving ofc), most of their healthbar is already gone and they’re defenseless. This is a high MMR char. Last match I played I was up against akean and mystikkal (two pc/na greats). K/D is typically like 15-2 ish. 1.5 mil dmg per match at least. So forgive me if I’m skeptical of your criticism.

Light armor. No sword/shield. I don’t attempt to hold my ground at all. It is 100% glass canon (except the two lines of armor from torugs). I use smart positioning, strong heals, and kill extremely fast to stay alive. And race against time to help with mobility (chains helps with this quite a lot too). It absolutely does not feel like the “battle of attrition” style DK’s of old. Fights are usually over within 4-5 seconds. Once I get a kill I get back in position and look for another target. Kinda feels like ganking.. which is basically what stamSorcs do.

Veg · April 2021

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability...

God forbid classes have their own identity, right? The game would be more fun if every class played the exact same.

If you want burst on 3s cd, then don't play MagDK. If you want to play a certain playstyle, pick a class that excels in that playstyle. Don't try to make every class the exact same. All these forum posts are comparing class "weaknesses" to other classes strengths. They're different classes for a reason.

If we think MagDK is underperforming, then buff tooltips don't change how the class plays so it's just a fiery warden.

Giving mag DK 1 new burst damage ability does not make them the same as every other class. still no mobility and needing to heal through your own damage dealing. only thing that would change is that mag DKs cant just be danced around while they do mediocre damage.

The ideal fix would be replacing stone fist with a timed aoe burst or reworking deep breath to perform that function instead of healing. Even making flames of oblivion do its damage in aoe form would kinda work.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

It doesn't matter if a skill is a class skill or not. If impulse did double damage to targets under 50% health then mag DKs would have burst damage. If mag builds had proc sets like frenzied momentum and ashen grip then mag DK's would again have burst damage.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability.

The little bonus clip is exactly what happens to your build. You need a way to heal while attacking as a mag DK. Molten whip gets rid of that.

I know exactly what happens to my build because I play it all the time lol. And again, you would have gotten that same result on any other build. You would have died just the same playing as a stamsorc. Being a DK wasn’t even a factor in your clip. I don’t want to devolve into a stam vs mag discussion because that’s not the topic of this thread.

Nightblade has to essentially cast 5 abilities before they can deliver their burst. Templars have to wait 6 seconds while dealing damage. Even magsorcs require a bit of setup. And you’re actually not correct about molten whip. You can just stand back and cast cauterize (or engulfing flames) 3 times to generate all 3 stacks (in a BG you’re basically in combat at all times), then attack someone with all of your burst up-front. But that wouldn’t be smart.. better to whittle them down a little first, CC, then burst. And if they don’t die.. only 3 seconds to recharge your burst?? NB’s would enjoy that I bet.

And you may see it as sacrificing your whole front bar.. but to me they’re all skills I’d be using anyway. Are sorcs “sacrificing” their front bar in order to deliver their curse/fury/frags combo? Gotta have a spammable too so that’s just one flex spot left.

Cauterize, regen, and burning embers give me a good amount of in-combat heals. And coag blood is insanely strong this patch.

That's kinda the point. Other classes have gotten so much burst damage that they can straight up shut anyone down instantly. Mag DK's have to compete with this. its insane.

As for you slotting chains, and the 2 dots and whip on 1 bar... that speaks to your mag DK pvp experience.

Edit because my original comment was potentially inflammatory.

Care to elaborate on what’s wrong with my bar?

I'd love to. I do mean this purely for discussion and not in an inflammatory way (if that's possible on these forums). The mag DK class has to deal all its damage over time throughout a fight. So no popping people to execute range at the get go. Even more so for molten whip. This leaves your targets with time to heal, move out of line of sight or otherwise mitigate your damage. This will almost 100% result in you taking more damage than your can deal in the first 2-4 seconds of a fight. That clip I posted is a staple example of a mag DK built for damage with little thought for a strong defense. Unfortunately we fall into the "hold your ground" meme. This actually wasn't so bad for stam builds that would hide in their caltrops and wait for their targets to come to them but mag DK's lack anyway to gain the advantage in a fight by holding their ground.

Your bar certainly has the potential to deal great damage. The problem is that you lack the openings to deal that damage. Now lets take my build (It's pretty standard). I get a 4k aoe damage and heal from crimson, 1.5k-2k damage per second from vateshran, the same unavoidable stun but a spammable that will heal me every time I stun the target. Its certainly isn't the greatest damage but I don't run the risk of getting out damaged and killed by my opponent outside of crazy bursts like the stam sorc. My down fall is that everyone I fight plays to their advantage. Even the stam sorc teleporting into me and blasting off 5 attacks is playing to their advantage.

There is no advantage to "holding your ground" as the devs would say. At least not right now. If we could fire off and aoe burst to anyone that that tries to pressure us too much then things would be different. Thats why I want to see stone fist, wings or inhale changed to a burst damage ability that challenges shalk or blastbones.

Honestly those things are not a huge issue for me. By the time I gap close, apply dots and fossilize (while LA weaving ofc), most of their healthbar is already gone and they’re defenseless. This is a high MMR char. Last match I played I was up against akean and mystikkal (two pc/na greats). K/D is typically like 15-2 ish. 1.5 mil dmg per match at least. So forgive me if I’m skeptical of your criticism.

Light armor. No sword/shield. I don’t attempt to hold my ground at all. It is 100% glass canon (except the two lines of armor from torugs). I use smart positioning, strong heals, and kill extremely fast to stay alive. And race against time to help with mobility (chains helps with this quite a lot too). It absolutely does not feel like the “battle of attrition” style DK’s of old. Fights are usually over within 4-5 seconds. Once I get a kill I get back in position and look for another target. Kinda feels like ganking.. which is basically what stamSorcs do.

If you're that convinced that your mDK is doing great then there's nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise. I hate to go to this but the only way you may change your opinion is through dueling me. I know duels don't really relate to actual pvp but there really nothing else I can do.

Also if you're not playing with or against stam builds as seen in that video at least every other match then you are not max mmr.

@Nick_Almighty for any magDKs that want to test builds. PC NA.

ketsparrowhawk · April 2021

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability...

God forbid classes have their own identity, right? The game would be more fun if every class played the exact same.

If you want burst on 3s cd, then don't play MagDK. If you want to play a certain playstyle, pick a class that excels in that playstyle. Don't try to make every class the exact same. All these forum posts are comparing class "weaknesses" to other classes strengths. They're different classes for a reason.

If we think MagDK is underperforming, then buff tooltips don't change how the class plays so it's just a fiery warden.

Giving mag DK 1 new burst damage ability does not make them the same as every other class. still no mobility and needing to heal through your own damage dealing. only thing that would change is that mag DKs cant just be danced around while they do mediocre damage.

The ideal fix would be replacing stone fist with a timed aoe burst or reworking deep breath to perform that function instead of healing. Even making flames of oblivion do its damage in aoe form would kinda work.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

It doesn't matter if a skill is a class skill or not. If impulse did double damage to targets under 50% health then mag DKs would have burst damage. If mag builds had proc sets like frenzied momentum and ashen grip then mag DK's would again have burst damage.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability.

The little bonus clip is exactly what happens to your build. You need a way to heal while attacking as a mag DK. Molten whip gets rid of that.

I know exactly what happens to my build because I play it all the time lol. And again, you would have gotten that same result on any other build. You would have died just the same playing as a stamsorc. Being a DK wasn’t even a factor in your clip. I don’t want to devolve into a stam vs mag discussion because that’s not the topic of this thread.

Nightblade has to essentially cast 5 abilities before they can deliver their burst. Templars have to wait 6 seconds while dealing damage. Even magsorcs require a bit of setup. And you’re actually not correct about molten whip. You can just stand back and cast cauterize (or engulfing flames) 3 times to generate all 3 stacks (in a BG you’re basically in combat at all times), then attack someone with all of your burst up-front. But that wouldn’t be smart.. better to whittle them down a little first, CC, then burst. And if they don’t die.. only 3 seconds to recharge your burst?? NB’s would enjoy that I bet.

And you may see it as sacrificing your whole front bar.. but to me they’re all skills I’d be using anyway. Are sorcs “sacrificing” their front bar in order to deliver their curse/fury/frags combo? Gotta have a spammable too so that’s just one flex spot left.

Cauterize, regen, and burning embers give me a good amount of in-combat heals. And coag blood is insanely strong this patch.

That's kinda the point. Other classes have gotten so much burst damage that they can straight up shut anyone down instantly. Mag DK's have to compete with this. its insane.

As for you slotting chains, and the 2 dots and whip on 1 bar... that speaks to your mag DK pvp experience.

Edit because my original comment was potentially inflammatory.

Care to elaborate on what’s wrong with my bar?

I'd love to. I do mean this purely for discussion and not in an inflammatory way (if that's possible on these forums). The mag DK class has to deal all its damage over time throughout a fight. So no popping people to execute range at the get go. Even more so for molten whip. This leaves your targets with time to heal, move out of line of sight or otherwise mitigate your damage. This will almost 100% result in you taking more damage than your can deal in the first 2-4 seconds of a fight. That clip I posted is a staple example of a mag DK built for damage with little thought for a strong defense. Unfortunately we fall into the "hold your ground" meme. This actually wasn't so bad for stam builds that would hide in their caltrops and wait for their targets to come to them but mag DK's lack anyway to gain the advantage in a fight by holding their ground.

Your bar certainly has the potential to deal great damage. The problem is that you lack the openings to deal that damage. Now lets take my build (It's pretty standard). I get a 4k aoe damage and heal from crimson, 1.5k-2k damage per second from vateshran, the same unavoidable stun but a spammable that will heal me every time I stun the target. Its certainly isn't the greatest damage but I don't run the risk of getting out damaged and killed by my opponent outside of crazy bursts like the stam sorc. My down fall is that everyone I fight plays to their advantage. Even the stam sorc teleporting into me and blasting off 5 attacks is playing to their advantage.

There is no advantage to "holding your ground" as the devs would say. At least not right now. If we could fire off and aoe burst to anyone that that tries to pressure us too much then things would be different. Thats why I want to see stone fist, wings or inhale changed to a burst damage ability that challenges shalk or blastbones.

Honestly those things are not a huge issue for me. By the time I gap close, apply dots and fossilize (while LA weaving ofc), most of their healthbar is already gone and they’re defenseless. This is a high MMR char. Last match I played I was up against akean and mystikkal (two pc/na greats). K/D is typically like 15-2 ish. 1.5 mil dmg per match at least. So forgive me if I’m skeptical of your criticism.

Light armor. No sword/shield. I don’t attempt to hold my ground at all. It is 100% glass canon (except the two lines of armor from torugs). I use smart positioning, strong heals, and kill extremely fast to stay alive. And race against time to help with mobility (chains helps with this quite a lot too). It absolutely does not feel like the “battle of attrition” style DK’s of old. Fights are usually over within 4-5 seconds. Once I get a kill I get back in position and look for another target. Kinda feels like ganking.. which is basically what stamSorcs do.

If you're that convinced that your mDK is doing great then there's nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise. I hate to go to this but the only way you may change your opinion is through dueling me. I know duels don't really relate to actual pvp but there really nothing else I can do.

Also if you're not playing with or against stam builds as seen in that video at least every other match then you are not max mmr.

@Nick_Almighty for any magDKs that want to test builds. PC NA.

You are correct that dueling wouldn’t prove anything. I just care about k/d’s in BG’s and I’m doing fine in that department. You’d roast me in a duel because you’re in heavy with snb. I wouldn’t be able to utilize the environment which is necessary for my squish build. I’ll keep an eye out in BG’s and we can compare our results there

or we can group up and duo and have a friendly contest lol. @ketsparrowhawk shoot me an inv sometime!

I see plenty of builds like the one in your clip and they’ve clapped me too. The worst I saw was a stamden with silver leash and procs galore. By the time I’d finish getting pulled his heavy attack is charged and 3 procs (and sub assault) hit, followed by db. No counter if he hit me with that chain. But it only takes once then they’re on my radar and they rarely get the jump on me again after that.

Urzigurumash · April 2021

Veg wrote: »

As for you slotting chains, and the 2 dots and whip on 1 bar... that speaks to your mag DK pvp experience.

Could you please still elaborate what the issue here is? Pretending the stack passive on Whip didn't exist, I personally wouldn't slot Whip on the same bar as my DoTs either - but I have my own reasons, care to explain what you had in mind?

Veg · April 2021

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

As for you slotting chains, and the 2 dots and whip on 1 bar... that speaks to your mag DK pvp experience.

Could you please still elaborate what the issue here is? Pretending the stack passive on Whip didn't exist, I personally wouldn't slot Whip on the same bar as my DoTs either - but I have my own reasons, care to explain what you had in mind?

I'm referring to the lack of damage mitigation you get from not having both your stun, dps and heal on the same bar. It would be great if we could have all our DoTs and spammable and stun all on one bar without making a huge sacrifice. MDK's cant act as stam builds. We need to heal as we do damage or we just die. Our damage mitigation comes from blocking and healing through attacks. No doge roll, teleport, or speed buffs here. You literally have to fight everyone and deal with all incoming damage without 100% mitigation from movement. Thats why I want to see mDKS get some serious aoe burst damage within melee range.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability...

God forbid classes have their own identity, right? The game would be more fun if every class played the exact same.

If you want burst on 3s cd, then don't play MagDK. If you want to play a certain playstyle, pick a class that excels in that playstyle. Don't try to make every class the exact same. All these forum posts are comparing class "weaknesses" to other classes strengths. They're different classes for a reason.

If we think MagDK is underperforming, then buff tooltips don't change how the class plays so it's just a fiery warden.

Giving mag DK 1 new burst damage ability does not make them the same as every other class. still no mobility and needing to heal through your own damage dealing. only thing that would change is that mag DKs cant just be danced around while they do mediocre damage.

The ideal fix would be replacing stone fist with a timed aoe burst or reworking deep breath to perform that function instead of healing. Even making flames of oblivion do its damage in aoe form would kinda work.

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

I'm no DK main but my magDK is feeling great right now.

In no-CP my 3-stack molten whip tooltip is 20k!!

And it naturally charges through the course of my normal combo. Empowering chain (1 stack), claw (2 stacks), fire breath (yay 3 stacks!), fossilize, big juicy whip. Easy setup using a simple combo.

Light Torugs + Spinner + Malacath + Maelstrom resto is working great for me.

Well then, you who are so wise in the way of science. Please explain how your molten whip compares to this stam sorc whos execute didn't even get a chance to hit me. Also included a bonus clip of a fellow molten whip champion that is suddenly under pressure from the inferior flame lash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yI9dXh5Fd0

You took his vate 2h proc and his teammate’s blastbones at the same time, while already missing a bit of health. And It’s hard to see how much HP you have on my phone screen but I think it starts with a 2.. it should start with a 3 these days imo. If the blastbones hadn’t been there you maybe could have recovered and turned it around. Sorc as a class was barely in play. Crystal weapon added a little extra burst and he stunned you with streak but that’s it. That being said stamsorc has been top tier for a while now. Mainly because some of the best proc sets synergize very nicely with steak.. but this thread is about burst and the only burst from a sorc ability you received was 3k from crystal wep.

Remove blastbones from that attack and steeltornado replaces it. No difference. Max hp is 31k. The point is that these classes can do this because they have burst damage built into their class. There is no mag DK combo that comes anywhere close to this regardless of what proc sets you use. Even when you do get someone to 10% hp theres nothing a mag DK can to finish them off that they arent already doing to deal regular damage.

Now please do go on about how your molten whip is a valid form of burst damage while using that video as a reference for actual burst damage.

Steel tornado is not a class skill. Anyone can do that combo, not just sorcs. The bulk of that combo has nothing to do with sorc as a class. Just 3k from crystal wep. If you’d been playing as a sorc instead of a DK, how would you have countered that situation differently? By the look of it you didn’t have time to react no matter what kind of toon you were on.

As I stated above, my 3-stack molten tooltip is 20k. Even accounting for resistances it hits a heck of a lot harder than a 3k crystal weapon. Stacked on top of dots, LA weaves, infused glyph proccing every 2 seconds.. it is ample burst imo. By no means saying magDK is the best but this is the best they’ve felt in a long time to me. They benefit big time from the increased stamina pool.

It doesn't matter if a skill is a class skill or not. If impulse did double damage to targets under 50% health then mag DKs would have burst damage. If mag builds had proc sets like frenzied momentum and ashen grip then mag DK's would again have burst damage.

You have to cast 3 attacks while in combat to start your burst damage. Any other class with burst damage does this before they even get close to you. You have no opening to exploit and you have completely sacrificed your skill bar for 1 burst damage ability.

The little bonus clip is exactly what happens to your build. You need a way to heal while attacking as a mag DK. Molten whip gets rid of that.

I know exactly what happens to my build because I play it all the time lol. And again, you would have gotten that same result on any other build. You would have died just the same playing as a stamsorc. Being a DK wasn’t even a factor in your clip. I don’t want to devolve into a stam vs mag discussion because that’s not the topic of this thread.

Nightblade has to essentially cast 5 abilities before they can deliver their burst. Templars have to wait 6 seconds while dealing damage. Even magsorcs require a bit of setup. And you’re actually not correct about molten whip. You can just stand back and cast cauterize (or engulfing flames) 3 times to generate all 3 stacks (in a BG you’re basically in combat at all times), then attack someone with all of your burst up-front. But that wouldn’t be smart.. better to whittle them down a little first, CC, then burst. And if they don’t die.. only 3 seconds to recharge your burst?? NB’s would enjoy that I bet.

And you may see it as sacrificing your whole front bar.. but to me they’re all skills I’d be using anyway. Are sorcs “sacrificing” their front bar in order to deliver their curse/fury/frags combo? Gotta have a spammable too so that’s just one flex spot left.

Cauterize, regen, and burning embers give me a good amount of in-combat heals. And coag blood is insanely strong this patch.

That's kinda the point. Other classes have gotten so much burst damage that they can straight up shut anyone down instantly. Mag DK's have to compete with this. its insane.

As for you slotting chains, and the 2 dots and whip on 1 bar... that speaks to your mag DK pvp experience.

Edit because my original comment was potentially inflammatory.

Care to elaborate on what’s wrong with my bar?

I'd love to. I do mean this purely for discussion and not in an inflammatory way (if that's possible on these forums). The mag DK class has to deal all its damage over time throughout a fight. So no popping people to execute range at the get go. Even more so for molten whip. This leaves your targets with time to heal, move out of line of sight or otherwise mitigate your damage. This will almost 100% result in you taking more damage than your can deal in the first 2-4 seconds of a fight. That clip I posted is a staple example of a mag DK built for damage with little thought for a strong defense. Unfortunately we fall into the "hold your ground" meme. This actually wasn't so bad for stam builds that would hide in their caltrops and wait for their targets to come to them but mag DK's lack anyway to gain the advantage in a fight by holding their ground.

Your bar certainly has the potential to deal great damage. The problem is that you lack the openings to deal that damage. Now lets take my build (It's pretty standard). I get a 4k aoe damage and heal from crimson, 1.5k-2k damage per second from vateshran, the same unavoidable stun but a spammable that will heal me every time I stun the target. Its certainly isn't the greatest damage but I don't run the risk of getting out damaged and killed by my opponent outside of crazy bursts like the stam sorc. My down fall is that everyone I fight plays to their advantage. Even the stam sorc teleporting into me and blasting off 5 attacks is playing to their advantage.

There is no advantage to "holding your ground" as the devs would say. At least not right now. If we could fire off and aoe burst to anyone that that tries to pressure us too much then things would be different. Thats why I want to see stone fist, wings or inhale changed to a burst damage ability that challenges shalk or blastbones.

Honestly those things are not a huge issue for me. By the time I gap close, apply dots and fossilize (while LA weaving ofc), most of their healthbar is already gone and they’re defenseless. This is a high MMR char. Last match I played I was up against akean and mystikkal (two pc/na greats). K/D is typically like 15-2 ish. 1.5 mil dmg per match at least. So forgive me if I’m skeptical of your criticism.

Light armor. No sword/shield. I don’t attempt to hold my ground at all. It is 100% glass canon (except the two lines of armor from torugs). I use smart positioning, strong heals, and kill extremely fast to stay alive. And race against time to help with mobility (chains helps with this quite a lot too). It absolutely does not feel like the “battle of attrition” style DK’s of old. Fights are usually over within 4-5 seconds. Once I get a kill I get back in position and look for another target. Kinda feels like ganking.. which is basically what stamSorcs do.

If you're that convinced that your mDK is doing great then there's nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise. I hate to go to this but the only way you may change your opinion is through dueling me. I know duels don't really relate to actual pvp but there really nothing else I can do.

Also if you're not playing with or against stam builds as seen in that video at least every other match then you are not max mmr.

@Nick_Almighty for any magDKs that want to test builds. PC NA.

You are correct that dueling wouldn’t prove anything. I just care about k/d’s in BG’s and I’m doing fine in that department. You’d roast me in a duel because you’re in heavy with snb. I wouldn’t be able to utilize the environment which is necessary for my squish build. I’ll keep an eye out in BG’s and we can compare our results there or we can group up and duo and have a friendly contest lol. @ketsparrowhawk shoot me an inv sometime!

I see plenty of builds like the one in your clip and they’ve clapped me too. The worst I saw was a stamden with silver leash and procs galore. By the time I’d finish getting pulled his heavy attack is charged and 3 procs (and sub assault) hit, followed by db. No counter if he hit me with that chain. But it only takes once then they’re on my radar and they rarely get the jump on me again after that.

Ya dueling is a niche thing. Not much else really. You're probably pretty goods at the game considering you've made it this far into a discussion without flaming and what not. Nothin else to say really. glad to play you sometime.

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[Edited to remove Discussing Disciplinary Actions]