ZoS, We Need to Address the Mat Price Increase 2x-5x

Inaya · April 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Er, as a trading guild officer, the most we got into setting prices was to rarely say "Guys, don't wildly overprice your stuff, it makes the guild look bad."

Maybe you don't but it's confirmed on xbox by the major guilds. And even if it wasn't confirmed, anyone who spends time shopping for prices with tell you that overnight mats across all traders change.

Mythic Ambrosia went from 25k to 90k overnight before the jester festival. This means people pulled their stock out just to put them back up for the new price. This happened in a very short window which wouldn't make sense if there wasn't collusion.

No one needs to hold a meeting. They used the same pricing bot all their discords. They influence those prices by overcharging all at once.

Nothing else could explain everyone hiking the price on rare exp pots right before the first festival with the 100% exp buff.

Maybe I'm just a jaded PC player, but a pricing bot sounds an awful lot like the TTC addon. Not seeing what's so terrible about that, except maybe that console players aren't used to what that does to the market.

Smart traders explains it, not collusion. All these conspiracy theories make me laugh. I have never once been told what to sell or for how much.

I MADE pots specifically to sell for the event, not because anyone told me to, but because I read and anticipated the market.

CrashofLorkhaj · April 2021

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

PigofSteel · April 2021

Market is totally unacceptable. Its like im playing mobile game that want to squeeze me dry.

ThorianB · April 2021

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

What they are trying to do won't work. They would need dozens of people at all times of day scouring traders siphoning up the deals in order to control the market. The problem with that is they are sitting on ever increasing inventories that they must then try to offload at higher prices which will take more time. You have limited selling slots and limited inventory space in this game. What happens in this scheme is they run themselves out of gold quickly and end up sitting on a large inventory that they are either going to have to dump back on the market at a low price because they can no longer control it, or they are going to have to slowly feed it back into the market for a small profit over what they paid for it in which they are going to make very little profit for all the hassle when they could have made 10x more doing other trades that don't require market control.

That is only one of a few things i found wrong with their "business model"

I picked up a motif yesterday for 50 gold. I sold it today for 7500 gold and i was on the first page of lowest price on TTC. THAT is how you work the market in ESO.

Goregrinder · April 2021

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

I mean why would they? Welcome to supply and demand. If the demand stays the same, you buy up the supply and control how much you sell it for. That's economics 101 isn't it?

hafgood · April 2021

Sounds like a scam to me, get people into the scheme, tell them to purchase all of commodity A at x price or below to resell at y. Then drip feed your own stock onto the market around x price, the ones in the "scheme" snap these up sure they are going to make money.

When they try to sell at y price they find even more coming onto the market at x thus making it impossible for them to sell at y. So they go and buy yet more at x.

Eventually they run out of cash because they only have so much. Meanwhile the masterminds behind the scheme sit back and count the profits they made from their marks who slowly realise that commodity A isn't worth y, in fact it isn't even worth x, it's only worth z and they are now realising their massive stack of Commodity A will be sold at a huge loss.

Basically the imgur picture is worthless, it proves absolutely nothing and could have been written by anyone for any game.

So good luck with promoting it as proof of a Tamriel wide price se...

<knock>

Sorry just got to answer the door.

Mr Hafgood? We are your local Tamriel Guild Mafia and you've been talking too much. Would you come with us please we've some rubidite boots in just your size.....

Obsidian3 · April 2021

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

They have been doing this since launch especially with low drop rates items, such as Potent Nirncrux, Clam Gall and Powdered Mother of Pearl etc...Whenever there is a low drop rate item some guilds always try to corner the market. All it does is force more of us to farm for it, thus increasing the supply. Or the hoarders release some of their supply to keep others from artificially inflating the market.

Sevalaricgirl · April 2021

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh, no worries for me. I farm. I LOVE farming. I have everything I need without supporting people who think they deserve to make millions a week.

No. That is not sarcasm.

But I agree with you 100%. I go out and farm because I enjoy it. I don't shop at the guild shops. I think that was a terrible design choice from the beginning so I won't support it.

VaranisArano · April 2021

Inaya wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Er, as a trading guild officer, the most we got into setting prices was to rarely say "Guys, don't wildly overprice your stuff, it makes the guild look bad."

Maybe you don't but it's confirmed on xbox by the major guilds. And even if it wasn't confirmed, anyone who spends time shopping for prices with tell you that overnight mats across all traders change.

Mythic Ambrosia went from 25k to 90k overnight before the jester festival. This means people pulled their stock out just to put them back up for the new price. This happened in a very short window which wouldn't make sense if there wasn't collusion.

No one needs to hold a meeting. They used the same pricing bot all their discords. They influence those prices by overcharging all at once.

Nothing else could explain everyone hiking the price on rare exp pots right before the first festival with the 100% exp buff.

Maybe I'm just a jaded PC player, but a pricing bot sounds an awful lot like the TTC addon. Not seeing what's so terrible about that, except maybe that console players aren't used to what that does to the market.

Smart traders explains it, not collusion. All these conspiracy theories make me laugh. I have never once been told what to sell or for how much.

I MADE pots specifically to sell for the event, not because anyone told me to, but because I read and anticipated the market.

Exactly. It's no different than the relatively sudden price hike on Enchanting and Alchemy master writs I'm seeing.

Master Writs are the most efficient way to gain exp quickly for minimal effort?
100% exp Event coming up?

Yeah, it's definitely collusion causing that price spike, as opposed to players figuring out that demand for easy Master Writs was going to soar, and its a seller's market.

Now, I dunno if some people think that flipping and reselling is some form of collusion here. I just know that no one in any of my trading guilds has every told me what to price goods at. Though on PC, it's safe to assume that most traders are using MM or TTC anyways, which seems to fulfill a similar function to a discord pricing bot.

VaranisArano · April 2021

PigofSteel wrote: »

Market is totally unacceptable. Its like im playing mobile game that want to squeeze me dry.

Or an MMO that wants you to spend a lot of time playing the game, and it doesn't really matter if you are spending your time farming for items you want or farming for gold to buy the items you want.

Welcome to MMOs, where time is money.

xilfxlegion · April 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

Inaya wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Er, as a trading guild officer, the most we got into setting prices was to rarely say "Guys, don't wildly overprice your stuff, it makes the guild look bad."

Maybe you don't but it's confirmed on xbox by the major guilds. And even if it wasn't confirmed, anyone who spends time shopping for prices with tell you that overnight mats across all traders change.

Mythic Ambrosia went from 25k to 90k overnight before the jester festival. This means people pulled their stock out just to put them back up for the new price. This happened in a very short window which wouldn't make sense if there wasn't collusion.

No one needs to hold a meeting. They used the same pricing bot all their discords. They influence those prices by overcharging all at once.

Nothing else could explain everyone hiking the price on rare exp pots right before the first festival with the 100% exp buff.

Maybe I'm just a jaded PC player, but a pricing bot sounds an awful lot like the TTC addon. Not seeing what's so terrible about that, except maybe that console players aren't used to what that does to the market.

Smart traders explains it, not collusion. All these conspiracy theories make me laugh. I have never once been told what to sell or for how much.

I MADE pots specifically to sell for the event, not because anyone told me to, but because I read and anticipated the market.

Exactly. It's no different than the relatively sudden price hike on Enchanting and Alchemy master writs I'm seeing.

Master Writs are the most efficient way to gain exp quickly for minimal effort?
100% exp Event coming up?

Yeah, it's definitely collusion causing that price spike, as opposed to players figuring out that demand for easy Master Writs was going to soar, and its a seller's market.

Now, I dunno if some people think that flipping and reselling is some form of collusion here. I just know that no one in any of my trading guilds has every told me what to price goods at. Though on PC, it's safe to assume that most traders are using MM or TTC anyways, which seems to fulfill a similar function to a discord pricing bot.

for mats and writs it is a seller's market ---- for motifs right now it is a buyer's market.

i am in 10 major trading guilds --- no one tells me how much to sell my stuff for . people keep yelling collusion and conspiracy but in the end every single thing in every guild trader can be had for free if you farm or grind for it. so hoping that zos will come in here and tell people how to price their stuff in a free market is a pipe dream.

people can argue all they want but in the end it is still supply and demand and as i have stated numerous times nothing will sell for more than someone will pay for it --- if it is priced too high, it simply will not sell

Sanctum74 · April 2021

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

You do realize it’s pretty much impossible to do this. You would need dozens of players and billions in gold working around the clock to do this. As soon as you buy up their stock people will list new items so you would have to hit about 200 guild traders on an hourly basis.

Then there are inventory limitations that would also prevent this. The bigger problem would then be they are sitting on all these items and not enough guild slots to sell them, not to mention they wouldn’t have time to sell them because they would have to be constantly buying at traders all over tamriel.

As it stands now with the exception of a small guild I can go to any guild trader and find a wide variety of items. If what you said was true then they would only be available in a few select traders which is clearly not the case.

VaranisArano · April 2021

xilfxlegion wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Inaya wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Er, as a trading guild officer, the most we got into setting prices was to rarely say "Guys, don't wildly overprice your stuff, it makes the guild look bad."

Maybe you don't but it's confirmed on xbox by the major guilds. And even if it wasn't confirmed, anyone who spends time shopping for prices with tell you that overnight mats across all traders change.

Mythic Ambrosia went from 25k to 90k overnight before the jester festival. This means people pulled their stock out just to put them back up for the new price. This happened in a very short window which wouldn't make sense if there wasn't collusion.

No one needs to hold a meeting. They used the same pricing bot all their discords. They influence those prices by overcharging all at once.

Nothing else could explain everyone hiking the price on rare exp pots right before the first festival with the 100% exp buff.

Maybe I'm just a jaded PC player, but a pricing bot sounds an awful lot like the TTC addon. Not seeing what's so terrible about that, except maybe that console players aren't used to what that does to the market.

Smart traders explains it, not collusion. All these conspiracy theories make me laugh. I have never once been told what to sell or for how much.

I MADE pots specifically to sell for the event, not because anyone told me to, but because I read and anticipated the market.

Exactly. It's no different than the relatively sudden price hike on Enchanting and Alchemy master writs I'm seeing.

Master Writs are the most efficient way to gain exp quickly for minimal effort?
100% exp Event coming up?

Yeah, it's definitely collusion causing that price spike, as opposed to players figuring out that demand for easy Master Writs was going to soar, and its a seller's market.

Now, I dunno if some people think that flipping and reselling is some form of collusion here. I just know that no one in any of my trading guilds has every told me what to price goods at. Though on PC, it's safe to assume that most traders are using MM or TTC anyways, which seems to fulfill a similar function to a discord pricing bot.

for mats and writs it is a seller's market ---- for motifs right now it is a buyer's market.

i am in 10 major trading guilds --- no one tells me how much to sell my stuff for . people keep yelling collusion and conspiracy but in the end every single thing in every guild trader can be had for free if you farm or grind for it. so hoping that zos will come in here and tell people how to price their stuff in a free market is a pipe dream.

people can argue all they want but in the end it is still supply and demand and as i have stated numerous times nothing will sell for more than someone will pay for it --- if it is priced too high, it simply will not sell

Yeah. I mean, I've been a guild officer and we'd suggest that folks use MM or TTC, but we didn't make them. If they didn't want to, fine, it's their loss. We did keep an eye on stupidly overpriced items like a potato for 200k, not because we wanted to control pricing but because that's behavior that's tied to goldselling and botting. Not something that a sensible guild wants to be involved with.

About the only time we did dictate prices was in setting minimum bids on lots for the guild auction. That's a far cry from telling players how to price their nirncrux, mundane runes, cornflower, gold improvement mats, and exp pots.

Goregrinder · April 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

PigofSteel wrote: »

Market is totally unacceptable. Its like im playing mobile game that want to squeeze me dry.

Or an MMO that wants you to spend a lot of time playing the game, and it doesn't really matter if you are spending your time farming for items you want or farming for gold to buy the items you want.

Welcome to MMOs, where time is money.

I agree 100%. Time is Money. I think it's just the people who haven't decided that their time is worth anything, so they don't understand how time = money and vice verse.

Pinoh · April 2021

Sanctum74 wrote: »

You do realize it’s pretty much impossible to do this. You would need dozens of players and billions in gold working around the clock to do this. As soon as you buy up their stock people will list new items so you would have to hit about 200 guild traders on an hourly basis.

I think you're mistaken. After while consumers would be scouring the traders to buy up the cheap deals, not something the original colluders would have to continue to do themselves. After high prices more or less become standard, they will be able to move whatever they bought to flip in large stacks.

Clearly it's not only possible, it's worked multiple times often on the same materials over the last couple of years. ZOS clearly has no interest in even pretending to monitor the game economy.

Needless to say the flippers trolls and w/e are incumbent to trot out endless denials. Just like they've done for the last several years so nothing ever gets fixed.

ThorianB · April 2021

Obsidian3 wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

They have been doing this since launch especially with low drop rates items, such as Potent Nirncrux, Clam Gall and Powdered Mother of Pearl etc...Whenever there is a low drop rate item some guilds always try to corner the market. All it does is force more of us to farm for it, thus increasing the supply. Or the hoarders release some of their supply to keep others from artificially inflating the market.

Hoarder here...Hi! I have thousands and tens of thousands of pretty much everything in the craft bag as i never get rid of any mats. I do trickle my stocks onto the market when prices are favorable. People like me are the ones that make bank off people who try to control the market. I farm all my stuff because i enjoy it. They buy up all the supplies and drive up the price then i start feeding the market and people snap up my stuff for a good price but still below the higher prices they paid for some items to take them off the market. Im currently doing this right now with 2 in demand rare items. Though they are being bought because of changes to the game.

xilfxlegion · April 2021

Pinoh wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

You do realize it’s pretty much impossible to do this. You would need dozens of players and billions in gold working around the clock to do this. As soon as you buy up their stock people will list new items so you would have to hit about 200 guild traders on an hourly basis.

I think you're mistaken. After while consumers would be scouring the traders to buy up the cheap deals, not something the original colluders would have to continue to do themselves. After high prices more or less become standard, they will be able to move whatever they bought to flip in large stacks.

Clearly it's not only possible, it's worked multiple times often on the same materials over the last couple of years. ZOS clearly has no interest in even pretending to monitor the game economy.

Needless to say the flippers trolls and w/e are incumbent to trot out endless denials. Just like they've done for the last several years so nothing ever gets fixed.

again, it is a free market --- what is there to fix ?

Ackwalan · April 2021

Everyone seems to like price fixing.....until they want to sell something.

jaws343 · April 2021

xilfxlegion wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Inaya wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Er, as a trading guild officer, the most we got into setting prices was to rarely say "Guys, don't wildly overprice your stuff, it makes the guild look bad."

Maybe you don't but it's confirmed on xbox by the major guilds. And even if it wasn't confirmed, anyone who spends time shopping for prices with tell you that overnight mats across all traders change.

Mythic Ambrosia went from 25k to 90k overnight before the jester festival. This means people pulled their stock out just to put them back up for the new price. This happened in a very short window which wouldn't make sense if there wasn't collusion.

No one needs to hold a meeting. They used the same pricing bot all their discords. They influence those prices by overcharging all at once.

Nothing else could explain everyone hiking the price on rare exp pots right before the first festival with the 100% exp buff.

Maybe I'm just a jaded PC player, but a pricing bot sounds an awful lot like the TTC addon. Not seeing what's so terrible about that, except maybe that console players aren't used to what that does to the market.

Smart traders explains it, not collusion. All these conspiracy theories make me laugh. I have never once been told what to sell or for how much.

I MADE pots specifically to sell for the event, not because anyone told me to, but because I read and anticipated the market.

Exactly. It's no different than the relatively sudden price hike on Enchanting and Alchemy master writs I'm seeing.

Master Writs are the most efficient way to gain exp quickly for minimal effort?
100% exp Event coming up?

Yeah, it's definitely collusion causing that price spike, as opposed to players figuring out that demand for easy Master Writs was going to soar, and its a seller's market.

Now, I dunno if some people think that flipping and reselling is some form of collusion here. I just know that no one in any of my trading guilds has every told me what to price goods at. Though on PC, it's safe to assume that most traders are using MM or TTC anyways, which seems to fulfill a similar function to a discord pricing bot.

for mats and writs it is a seller's market ---- for motifs right now it is a buyer's market.

i am in 10 major trading guilds --- no one tells me how much to sell my stuff for . people keep yelling collusion and conspiracy but in the end every single thing in every guild trader can be had for free if you farm or grind for it. so hoping that zos will come in here and tell people how to price their stuff in a free market is a pipe dream.

people can argue all they want but in the end it is still supply and demand and as i have stated numerous times nothing will sell for more than someone will pay for it --- if it is priced too high, it simply will not sell

Seriously, motifs sell like crazy during this event. I can barely keep them stocked. But I also intentionally sell a bit lower. 5K for extremely common motifs or motifs that recently flooded the market from events, 10K for motifs that haven't had events recently, 20K for the dungeon motifs from the last year.

DonGodJoe · April 2021

FluffWit wrote: »

I farmed for an hour after the blast update just to test the new CP system. In 60 minutes I got 2400 raw mats- something like 1200 rubedite ore, 500 dust, 500 wood, 400 silk. My previous best was 1400.

Not bragging really, just pointing out how easy it is to get stuff.

and? whats the point? when you get few gold materials out of it ?
I have farmed x thousands of raw materials, but the whole problem is that out of mine 1800 ruby ash i got just 6 gold materials.. then i refined more than 3k rubedite, end up with 2 tempering "ha ha" .. that will help with the current economy for sure

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2021

xilfxlegion wrote: »

Pinoh wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

You do realize it’s pretty much impossible to do this. You would need dozens of players and billions in gold working around the clock to do this. As soon as you buy up their stock people will list new items so you would have to hit about 200 guild traders on an hourly basis.

I think you're mistaken. After while consumers would be scouring the traders to buy up the cheap deals, not something the original colluders would have to continue to do themselves. After high prices more or less become standard, they will be able to move whatever they bought to flip in large stacks.

Clearly it's not only possible, it's worked multiple times often on the same materials over the last couple of years. ZOS clearly has no interest in even pretending to monitor the game economy.

Needless to say the flippers trolls and w/e are incumbent to trot out endless denials. Just like they've done for the last several years so nothing ever gets fixed.

again, it is a free market --- what is there to fix ?

Stock responses like "Its a free market" or "just supply and demand" are frankly useless. My first thought when I see them is, meh, that dude probably got a C- is in Macro Economics and thinks they are Milton Friedman.

It is ignorant to think that a "free market" exists almost anywhere in the world, whether its in a video game or in real life. Closest thing we have is probably Crypto currency.

ZOS has the ability and the duty to manage the value of their currency, just like literally every government does on a daily basis. They also have the ability and the duty to manage their economy as a whole. They have tools to not only mange the value of their currency via gold sources and gold sinks, but also to manage the supply (and less so) the demand of the commodities that drive said economy. They are actively doing this and have been since launch. OP is not wrong to suggest that some matt prices have sky rocketed recently, and it logically follows that ZOS has a duty to curb that to some degree.

While many factors are certainly in play, the big picture is that Demand is higher, supply is potentially lower, and currency devaluation (inflation) is a real very real issue.

Note, I never said that ZOS needs to set hard prices on things.

Sanctum74 · April 2021

Pinoh wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

You do realize it’s pretty much impossible to do this. You would need dozens of players and billions in gold working around the clock to do this. As soon as you buy up their stock people will list new items so you would have to hit about 200 guild traders on an hourly basis.

I think you're mistaken. After while consumers would be scouring the traders to buy up the cheap deals, not something the original colluders would have to continue to do themselves. After high prices more or less become standard, they will be able to move whatever they bought to flip in large stacks.

Clearly it's not only possible, it's worked multiple times often on the same materials over the last couple of years. ZOS clearly has no interest in even pretending to monitor the game economy.

Needless to say the flippers trolls and w/e are incumbent to trot out endless denials. Just like they've done for the last several years so nothing ever gets fixed.

If I’m mistaken then why didn’t you quote my full response and explain how it is logistically possible, but all the guild haters can’t seem to do this in the hundreds of these threads through the years.

And yes the original colluders would have to keep doing it because people would just undercut them to keep the price down.

All of the increases through the years can always be traced to an event, meta change, or new features like sticker book or furniture. It’s supply and demand, that’s all. No need to be hating on fellow players nice enough to see you items they had to work for.

Eedat · April 2021

Abelon wrote: »

[snip]

Yep, this is really not surprising to me. Some people here act like all trading guilds don't organize a single thing, which is true for some of them, certainly. But there are a few guilds out there who do what you demonstrated, and those few guilds are enough to mess up the entire economy.

I'm curious to see if anything will ever be done about this, but I think not. Money makers like those guys love the trading system in ESO, and ZOS would never want them to leave the game, so everything stays how it is. I hardly trade nowadays, I can't be bothered to buy anything, because it is so much cheaper to collect. And I don't want to sell at low prices, because those very same guilds will buy my stuff instead of normal players, and I refuse to sell for those artificially inflated high prices. Kind of a dead end.

[edited to remove quote]

Do you have any proof whatsoever for these claims? How on earth could anyone control the highest sales volume items in the game? Why are these baseless accusations allowed when there is NEVER even the tiniest sliver of proof to accompany them? If you wanted any chance whatsoever to control the price of an item, you would go for super low quantity, very rare items. Do you have any idea how many thousands of yellow upgrade mats are listed right now? Any idea how frequently new ones are listed? Do they have teams of bots running around to every single trader to keep up with the listings?

Instead of using common sense, it always has to be some crazy conspiracy. Large trade guilds have always existed. Flippers have always existed. Yet the price of mats has never remained this high. Please explain how a constant is causing periodic price changes. The price of mats started going through the roof on PC when they banned most of the bots. I'm not defending botting by any means, but its undeniable that bots created huge amounts of supply for raw mats. When that supply is removed and demand stays the same, the prices go up. Then we got stickerbook right after that which further increased demand while the supply wasn't replenished. And we're still at a point where there aren't many bots as before thankfully.

Meanwhile the bot problem hasn't been addressed at all on console and their prices have stayed the same. Do flippers not exist on console? Do large trade guilds not exist on console? The difference is you are waist deep in bots in every zone on console while they're pretty much gone on PC.

CrashofLorkhaj · April 2021

ThorianB wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

What they are trying to do won't work. They would need dozens of people at all times of day scouring traders siphoning up the deals in order to control the market. The problem with that is they are sitting on ever increasing inventories that they must then try to offload at higher prices which will take more time. You have limited selling slots and limited inventory space in this game. What happens in this scheme is they run themselves out of gold quickly and end up sitting on a large inventory that they are either going to have to dump back on the market at a low price because they can no longer control it, or they are going to have to slowly feed it back into the market for a small profit over what they paid for it in which they are going to make very little profit for all the hassle when they could have made 10x more doing other trades that don't require market control.

That is only one of a few things i found wrong with their "business model"

I picked up a motif yesterday for 50 gold. I sold it today for 7500 gold and i was on the first page of lowest price on TTC. THAT is how you work the market in ESO.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

You do realize it’s pretty much impossible to do this. You would need dozens of players and billions in gold working around the clock to do this. As soon as you buy up their stock people will list new items so you would have to hit about 200 guild traders on an hourly basis.

Then there are inventory limitations that would also prevent this. The bigger problem would then be they are sitting on all these items and not enough guild slots to sell them, not to mention they wouldn’t have time to sell them because they would have to be constantly buying at traders all over tamriel.

As it stands now with the exception of a small guild I can go to any guild trader and find a wide variety of items. If what you said was true then they would only be available in a few select traders which is clearly not the case.

It is easier to respond to these similar posts in one go:

It is already happening, successfully. These are a group of players for whom trading and markets is their whole endgame, and they actively check as many traders, all large and small ones, as a group, with labor divided between them. They have the numbers to do it, and the billions of gold collectively (and individually in a couple of cases). It is not a new concept, and it is something that you see often in other MMOs.

They have been actively doing it for some time now, successfully. They buy up all the valuable and in-demand materials from everywhere possible, relist as a higher price, buy out all the competition, and control the market price in this manner.

In fact, it was timed to happen in advance of the new patch, so that the large number of returning players would boost demand for upgrade materials and consumables, further increasing the prices and cementing their control of this market.

xilfxlegion · April 2021

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

What they are trying to do won't work. They would need dozens of people at all times of day scouring traders siphoning up the deals in order to control the market. The problem with that is they are sitting on ever increasing inventories that they must then try to offload at higher prices which will take more time. You have limited selling slots and limited inventory space in this game. What happens in this scheme is they run themselves out of gold quickly and end up sitting on a large inventory that they are either going to have to dump back on the market at a low price because they can no longer control it, or they are going to have to slowly feed it back into the market for a small profit over what they paid for it in which they are going to make very little profit for all the hassle when they could have made 10x more doing other trades that don't require market control.

That is only one of a few things i found wrong with their "business model"

I picked up a motif yesterday for 50 gold. I sold it today for 7500 gold and i was on the first page of lowest price on TTC. THAT is how you work the market in ESO.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

You do realize it’s pretty much impossible to do this. You would need dozens of players and billions in gold working around the clock to do this. As soon as you buy up their stock people will list new items so you would have to hit about 200 guild traders on an hourly basis.

Then there are inventory limitations that would also prevent this. The bigger problem would then be they are sitting on all these items and not enough guild slots to sell them, not to mention they wouldn’t have time to sell them because they would have to be constantly buying at traders all over tamriel.

As it stands now with the exception of a small guild I can go to any guild trader and find a wide variety of items. If what you said was true then they would only be available in a few select traders which is clearly not the case.

It is easier to respond to these similar posts in one go:

It is already happening, successfully. These are a group of players for whom trading and markets is their whole endgame, and they actively check as many traders, all large and small ones, as a group, with labor divided between them. They have the numbers to do it, and the billions of gold collectively (and individually in a couple of cases). It is not a new concept, and it is something that you see often in other MMOs.

They have been actively doing it for some time now, successfully. They buy up all the valuable and in-demand materials from everywhere possible, relist as a higher price, buy out all the competition, and control the market price in this manner.

In fact, it was timed to happen in advance of the new patch, so that the large number of returning players would boost demand for upgrade materials and consumables, further increasing the prices and cementing their control of this market.

again ---- waiting for examples or proof of the ever elusive " they " .

Goregrinder · April 2021

Eedat wrote: »

Abelon wrote: »

[snip]

Yep, this is really not surprising to me. Some people here act like all trading guilds don't organize a single thing, which is true for some of them, certainly. But there are a few guilds out there who do what you demonstrated, and those few guilds are enough to mess up the entire economy.

I'm curious to see if anything will ever be done about this, but I think not. Money makers like those guys love the trading system in ESO, and ZOS would never want them to leave the game, so everything stays how it is. I hardly trade nowadays, I can't be bothered to buy anything, because it is so much cheaper to collect. And I don't want to sell at low prices, because those very same guilds will buy my stuff instead of normal players, and I refuse to sell for those artificially inflated high prices. Kind of a dead end.

[edited to remove quote]

Do you have any proof whatsoever for these claims? How on earth could anyone control the highest sales volume items in the game? Why are these baseless accusations allowed when there is NEVER even the tiniest sliver of proof to accompany them? If you wanted any chance whatsoever to control the price of an item, you would go for super low quantity, very rare items. Do you have any idea how many thousands of yellow upgrade mats are listed right now? Any idea how frequently new ones are listed? Do they have teams of bots running around to every single trader to keep up with the listings?

Instead of using common sense, it always has to be some crazy conspiracy. Large trade guilds have always existed. Flippers have always existed. Yet the price of mats has never remained this high. Please explain how a constant is causing periodic price changes. The price of mats started going through the roof on PC when they banned most of the bots. I'm not defending botting by any means, but its undeniable that bots created huge amounts of supply for raw mats. When that supply is removed and demand stays the same, the prices go up. Then we got stickerbook right after that which further increased demand while the supply wasn't replenished. And we're still at a point where there aren't many bots as before thankfully.

Meanwhile the bot problem hasn't been addressed at all on console and their prices have stayed the same. Do flippers not exist on console? Do large trade guilds not exist on console? The difference is you are waist deep in bots in every zone on console while they're pretty much gone on PC.

Bots are never gone from PC. They come and go in waves, just like with almost every MMORPG that bots exist.

Sanctum74 · April 2021

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

What they are trying to do won't work. They would need dozens of people at all times of day scouring traders siphoning up the deals in order to control the market. The problem with that is they are sitting on ever increasing inventories that they must then try to offload at higher prices which will take more time. You have limited selling slots and limited inventory space in this game. What happens in this scheme is they run themselves out of gold quickly and end up sitting on a large inventory that they are either going to have to dump back on the market at a low price because they can no longer control it, or they are going to have to slowly feed it back into the market for a small profit over what they paid for it in which they are going to make very little profit for all the hassle when they could have made 10x more doing other trades that don't require market control.

That is only one of a few things i found wrong with their "business model"

I picked up a motif yesterday for 50 gold. I sold it today for 7500 gold and i was on the first page of lowest price on TTC. THAT is how you work the market in ESO.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

You do realize it’s pretty much impossible to do this. You would need dozens of players and billions in gold working around the clock to do this. As soon as you buy up their stock people will list new items so you would have to hit about 200 guild traders on an hourly basis.

Then there are inventory limitations that would also prevent this. The bigger problem would then be they are sitting on all these items and not enough guild slots to sell them, not to mention they wouldn’t have time to sell them because they would have to be constantly buying at traders all over tamriel.

As it stands now with the exception of a small guild I can go to any guild trader and find a wide variety of items. If what you said was true then they would only be available in a few select traders which is clearly not the case.

It is easier to respond to these similar posts in one go:

It is already happening, successfully. These are a group of players for whom trading and markets is their whole endgame, and they actively check as many traders, all large and small ones, as a group, with labor divided between them. They have the numbers to do it, and the billions of gold collectively (and individually in a couple of cases). It is not a new concept, and it is something that you see often in other MMOs.

They have been actively doing it for some time now, successfully. They buy up all the valuable and in-demand materials from everywhere possible, relist as a higher price, buy out all the competition, and control the market price in this manner.

In fact, it was timed to happen in advance of the new patch, so that the large number of returning players would boost demand for upgrade materials and consumables, further increasing the prices and cementing their control of this market.

So in other words it’s just hearsay and you still can’t explain how this is logistically possible to visit 200 traders hourly, need billions for each player, as well as the time and guild slots to be able to sell the items. Not to mention these items can still be found all throughout Tamriel so obviously they are not buying up the supply.

Goregrinder · April 2021

Inaya wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

TheEndBringer wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Er, as a trading guild officer, the most we got into setting prices was to rarely say "Guys, don't wildly overprice your stuff, it makes the guild look bad."

Maybe you don't but it's confirmed on xbox by the major guilds. And even if it wasn't confirmed, anyone who spends time shopping for prices with tell you that overnight mats across all traders change.

Mythic Ambrosia went from 25k to 90k overnight before the jester festival. This means people pulled their stock out just to put them back up for the new price. This happened in a very short window which wouldn't make sense if there wasn't collusion.

No one needs to hold a meeting. They used the same pricing bot all their discords. They influence those prices by overcharging all at once.

Nothing else could explain everyone hiking the price on rare exp pots right before the first festival with the 100% exp buff.

Maybe I'm just a jaded PC player, but a pricing bot sounds an awful lot like the TTC addon. Not seeing what's so terrible about that, except maybe that console players aren't used to what that does to the market.

Smart traders explains it, not collusion. All these conspiracy theories make me laugh. I have never once been told what to sell or for how much.

I MADE pots specifically to sell for the event, not because anyone told me to, but because I read and anticipated the market.

Because you have a brain. Can't say the thing about everyone though.

CrashofLorkhaj · April 2021

xilfxlegion wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

What they are trying to do won't work. They would need dozens of people at all times of day scouring traders siphoning up the deals in order to control the market. The problem with that is they are sitting on ever increasing inventories that they must then try to offload at higher prices which will take more time. You have limited selling slots and limited inventory space in this game. What happens in this scheme is they run themselves out of gold quickly and end up sitting on a large inventory that they are either going to have to dump back on the market at a low price because they can no longer control it, or they are going to have to slowly feed it back into the market for a small profit over what they paid for it in which they are going to make very little profit for all the hassle when they could have made 10x more doing other trades that don't require market control.

That is only one of a few things i found wrong with their "business model"

I picked up a motif yesterday for 50 gold. I sold it today for 7500 gold and i was on the first page of lowest price on TTC. THAT is how you work the market in ESO.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

You do realize it’s pretty much impossible to do this. You would need dozens of players and billions in gold working around the clock to do this. As soon as you buy up their stock people will list new items so you would have to hit about 200 guild traders on an hourly basis.

Then there are inventory limitations that would also prevent this. The bigger problem would then be they are sitting on all these items and not enough guild slots to sell them, not to mention they wouldn’t have time to sell them because they would have to be constantly buying at traders all over tamriel.

As it stands now with the exception of a small guild I can go to any guild trader and find a wide variety of items. If what you said was true then they would only be available in a few select traders which is clearly not the case.

It is easier to respond to these similar posts in one go:

It is already happening, successfully. These are a group of players for whom trading and markets is their whole endgame, and they actively check as many traders, all large and small ones, as a group, with labor divided between them. They have the numbers to do it, and the billions of gold collectively (and individually in a couple of cases). It is not a new concept, and it is something that you see often in other MMOs.

They have been actively doing it for some time now, successfully. They buy up all the valuable and in-demand materials from everywhere possible, relist as a higher price, buy out all the competition, and control the market price in this manner.

In fact, it was timed to happen in advance of the new patch, so that the large number of returning players would boost demand for upgrade materials and consumables, further increasing the prices and cementing their control of this market.

again ---- waiting for examples or proof of the ever elusive " they " .

I provided it but then my post was deleted by the mods for showing the names etc, so this is the most that I have been able to show whilst reposting within the forum’s rules. I’m not here to “prove” anything. It is common knowledge already and I honestly am surprised so many are only just finding out. If you are already within one of the major EU trading alliance discords then just search some of the text within the link I shared and you can see the whole thing for yourself.

CrashofLorkhaj · April 2021

Sanctum74 wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

What they are trying to do won't work. They would need dozens of people at all times of day scouring traders siphoning up the deals in order to control the market. The problem with that is they are sitting on ever increasing inventories that they must then try to offload at higher prices which will take more time. You have limited selling slots and limited inventory space in this game. What happens in this scheme is they run themselves out of gold quickly and end up sitting on a large inventory that they are either going to have to dump back on the market at a low price because they can no longer control it, or they are going to have to slowly feed it back into the market for a small profit over what they paid for it in which they are going to make very little profit for all the hassle when they could have made 10x more doing other trades that don't require market control.

That is only one of a few things i found wrong with their "business model"

I picked up a motif yesterday for 50 gold. I sold it today for 7500 gold and i was on the first page of lowest price on TTC. THAT is how you work the market in ESO.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

CrashofLorkhaj wrote: »

The reason for it is simple, price rigging is being actively organised and directed by a number of the biggest trading guilds and alliances on the servers.

Here is the proof [edited to remove names]:

https://imgur.com/a/sKOp9NZ

I am honestly surprised that this is not public knowledge... they did not try to hide it after all.

You do realize it’s pretty much impossible to do this. You would need dozens of players and billions in gold working around the clock to do this. As soon as you buy up their stock people will list new items so you would have to hit about 200 guild traders on an hourly basis.

Then there are inventory limitations that would also prevent this. The bigger problem would then be they are sitting on all these items and not enough guild slots to sell them, not to mention they wouldn’t have time to sell them because they would have to be constantly buying at traders all over tamriel.

As it stands now with the exception of a small guild I can go to any guild trader and find a wide variety of items. If what you said was true then they would only be available in a few select traders which is clearly not the case.

It is easier to respond to these similar posts in one go:

It is already happening, successfully. These are a group of players for whom trading and markets is their whole endgame, and they actively check as many traders, all large and small ones, as a group, with labor divided between them. They have the numbers to do it, and the billions of gold collectively (and individually in a couple of cases). It is not a new concept, and it is something that you see often in other MMOs.

They have been actively doing it for some time now, successfully. They buy up all the valuable and in-demand materials from everywhere possible, relist as a higher price, buy out all the competition, and control the market price in this manner.

In fact, it was timed to happen in advance of the new patch, so that the large number of returning players would boost demand for upgrade materials and consumables, further increasing the prices and cementing their control of this market.

So in other words it’s just hearsay and you still can’t explain how this is logistically possible to visit 200 traders hourly, need billions for each player, as well as the time and guild slots to be able to sell the items. Not to mention these items can still be found all throughout Tamriel so obviously they are not buying up the supply.

Already did.