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let us sell our crowns in guildtraders pls
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kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭joerginger wrote: »
Plus, selling actual Crowns or Gold, is against their TOS.
Huh? This had nothing whatsoever to do with gold sellers. In addition, your post is the first time I see the claim that "selling crowns" is against the TOS. That's not even possible at all. Only the indirect transaction of making someone gift you a crown store item. Which part of the TOS do you mean?
It is exactly like selling gold, you pay someone cash, not in-game gold, they send you the item. Making Crowns actually tradeable would make this a huge issue, as now your farm bots can pool their free monthly crown allotments and they can be sold for cash or simply converted to gold easily and then sell the gold. Neither of which would be good for the game and would create all sorts of new issues for ZOS to deal with.
This argument doesn't fly. We could also say farm bots can pool their resources and sell materials for gold that can then be sold for real world currency and arriving at your solution ban selling materials for all players legitimate or not.
Editing to add:
If crowns were sold in guild stores I would be willing to spend all kinds of gold on homes, skill lines, crown crates and other items. My ESO+ crowns are always gone fast.Edited by kargen27 on April 6, 2021 11:37PMand then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."3 -
codierussell✭✭✭✭The easiest thing in my opinion for ZOS to do is just make everything from the crown store available to sell in traders. The motifs, riding lessons, crown crates and furnishings are easy, just unbind them to players. Houses make a ton of sense to just have titled deeds like you would in real world with a property that you can consume. Skill lines just some sort of book to read similar to how learning spells worked in Skyrim. The name, race, and alliance tokens just make an actual token. Now skyshards and body markings get difficult to be more creative, honestly I don't care about the creativity of it and a book is fine (yes, I am an endgame PVEr that does not care about story or anything lol), but obviously some players really care about it. I am sure someone more creative than me can come up with something that makes sense why you can go to the trader and buy skyshards from a random zone.1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Only if they make it so you can't resell the crowns you bought for gold. Otherwise I can see people boosting crown prices even further.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU4 -
lazywhiteseal✭✭✭first of all selling and buying crown is NOT same as selling and buying gold. its just not. when its crowns, both buyer and seller does not benefit by receiving real life money but zos benefit from it since the crown seller has to buy the crown with real money from zos. when its gold, the seller received real life currency from the buyer and buyer gets gold. and zos get nothing out of this. so no this is not against tos to buy and sell crowns. current system where buyers and sellers have to trust each other is stupid.
all they have to do is implement a system just like the current item trading system. buyer places gold and seller places gift in the trade window. they are allowing crown selling and buying with gold but they arent implementing an anti scam system. thats the part i dont get4 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Araneae6537 wrote: »Personally I'd rather they just made crown and gold selling bannable offences and took extremely firm action against all forms of botting. I know a lot of players generally wouldn't agree, but I bet a lot of those who've been scammed would do along with a lot of those who constantly complain about botting.
That would hurt many people and help no one. You don’t have to buy or sell Crowns from anyone or can choose to do so only under whatever terms you set. And no, I would not agree even if I had been scammed. I realize that I am taking a risk when dealing with someone I don’t know if I’m the one fulfilling my part of the trade first. And has been stated, there are other options too, such as the Discord channel middlemen. Honestly, I can’t see any reason anyone would want to make it against ToS unless you have money yourself and want fewer people in game to have nice things. I certainly don’t think that of you, but I am at a loss to think of why you would be against it.
Thanks, I certainly don't have any gold, not being a trader, and I have no problem with other people having nice things. However, this kind of system isn't one I'm naturally comfortable with in a game, and it causes a lot of grief. It came about as an unintended consequence of the introduction of gifting Crown Store items (which was originally requested by guild leaders for raffle prizes and for kind-hearted players wanting to help out friends less financially secure than themselves and as such was eminently worthwhile), and so far as being either officially supported or banned sits uncomfortably between the two with no dependable cover for those scammed through it nor any action against those doing the scamming.
However many times people mention buying at your own risk, using reputable guilds and Discord etc, players continue to get scammed and seemingly ZOS continue to turn a blind eye. Every time the subject comes up with ways of improving it I look at the suggestions but still end up thinking I'd rather just get rid of it altogether.
I certainly did not mean to imply any assumptions, only couldn’t think of why anyone would want Crown selling to be banned. And I do think it brings far more good than harm, with both parties happy, which isn’t to dismiss harm done by scams.
It’s totally understandable for anyone to choose not to have anything to do with it themselves, or alternatively to only engage without taking risk themselves. I did so for a time, unless I knew the person or at least had done business with them before. Only recently have I started taking chances with sellers in zone. I guess I go with my gut feeling in the brief interaction whether I want to take the chance, which certainly could be mistaken, I know, but also I do not go and make large purchases from complete strangers, but rather risk what I can afford to lose, not that I’m remotely wealthy, in game or otherwise, but percentage-wise or relative to what I’ve made from sales recently — you get the idea. I’ve fortunately not been scammed and I only take good deals, so that even if someday I do lose, it will be far less than what I have gained by being able to trade and not paying any middleman, ZOS included (which I can only assume they would do if such a system was implemented).Edited by Araneae6537 on April 7, 2021 2:37AM0 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭Personally I'd rather they just made crown and gold selling bannable offences and took extremely firm action against all forms of botting. I know a lot of players generally wouldn't agree, but I bet a lot of those who've been scammed would do along with a lot of those who constantly complain about botting.
First of all, I agree with half of this. Botting is a problem and a parasite on the economy.
Secondly, let's not throw out our rum because a few people can be abusive drunkards. During my time selling Crowns, I would estimate that out of the total sum of transactions 98% were positive interactions and a very happy and satisfied customer. Because people who maybe could not afford that motif or DLC can now buy it for their hard earned gold. So that leaves the other 2% which represent a very very small fraction where I was indeed, scammed as these clowns didn't pay for the service *after* agreeing on the total price in gold. Ticket to ZOS and they took care of them, cautioned me to tighten up my business and so I did, selling only to Guildies now.
And you wanna know something? I have not had a problem selling since. And about those guys who scammed me...
All I can say is half were already known trouble makers who were removed & blacklisted from our Guild family and the other 1 or 2 guys appear to have left the game completely.
So... yeah.Edited by Nagastani on April 7, 2021 2:07AM0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eh. Go for it. I'd never sell my crowns as I have sufficient gold already. Wouldn't affect me - though I do think there's a potential "scammer" issue there.
Still, I wouldn't find it a problem as I'd never use it.0 -
ThorianB✭✭✭✭✭
✭They should have set it up so crowns could be sold this way from the beginning. This type of transaction in other games is good for well to do players that can afford to buy premium currency regularly, poorer players that struggle to afford premium currency, and the developer who benefits from increased sales. I can't believe they are not taking advantage of this income stream fully. It also improves the happiness of the player population in general and happy players play more and buy more.
Not sure how I see this increasing Crown Sales, which ZOS does a ton of already. There is a pretty simple system in place by players to buy/sell crowns either through reputable website brokers, as well as the many guilds offer the service as well to members.
The only things I see this suggestion doing, is tanking the value of crowns and protecting the folks that currently try to buy from the cheapest zone spammers, who a percentage of the time are going to rip you off. But that's a buyer beware issue, if you want to cheap out and risk buying off the back of that truck instead of through a legitimate outlet, that's on the buyer. Also, the crown market would pretty much dry up, costing ZOS sales once the Crown to Gold value dropped to a particular level, as no one would buy crowns to sell if it wasn't worth their time. If every Tom, *** & Harry with ESO+ dumped their 1500 crowns per month on traders, there would be almost no sales left for ZOS. Under the current system, you have to "buy" the full amount from one person, who gifts you the item, not piecemeal together enough crowns at discounted prices to buy that 15,000 crown home.
Plus, selling actual Crowns or Gold, is against their TOS.
The current crown for gold exchange system makes it easy for one party or the other to get scammed. I don't consider any guild or website to be reputable sellers even if they are. There is still a chance of getting scammed from another player in either case and a chance i can lose my crowns or gold in the process.
Personally i am a big advocate of a crown voucher system. Party A buys a crown voucher in predetermined amounts say 100 crowns each from the crown store. This voucher is similar to a motif page or style page in function. You can bank it, mail it, pass it around, etc etc...but most importantly you can sell it on the guild store. Party B can then shop for crown vouchers just like they would a motif for example. They buy it and then they use it just like a motif page except instead of adding a style to a collection it adds 100 crowns to their account. THAT is the way this should operate not on a trust based system with strangers.
In other games it increased sales significantly. Player A may make a lot of real money but not have a lot of time. Player B may have a lot of time but don't have a lot of free funds to spend on the game. Player A buys vouchers and lists them on the guild store. Player B buys them from player A. Player B gets crowns they normally wouldn't be able to get and player A gets gold to spend on things they want buy but don't have the money for. Furthermore, i would make subs something you could buy this way. A lot of non plus players would have plus if they could earn crowns and buy it.
I won't do the crown for gold exchange myself because i don't consider the system to be safe or reliable and this is a common concern both from the crown seller and crown buyers.
There have a been a few games that have added this feature while i have played them and premium currency sales increased by multiples. All those whales that want to run end game content but cant put the effort into all the prep that would be required of them buying carries, people buying prints, motifs, and sticker book gear.
Especially with all the new players and old money in this game. There are players sitting on tens and hundreds of millions of gold with nothing to do with it. But if they could just convert it safely and conveniently into crowns then that wealthy would get redistributed.
I know how the whole system works. But until ZOS decides to remove the 1500 crowns a month from ESO+, which would *** off a lot more players than would be made happy, it can't happen. The market would be flooded with 1500 crown vouchers and there would be zero reason for anyone to buy crowns from ZOS ever again. Those other games you mention, don't give out their game store currency as part of their sub, ESO does.
Or they could just make the cost of sub bought with crowns 3500 crowns and subs bought with crowns don't get the free crowns. It's normal for GTCs to be less bang for the buck than a monthly sub. People would still eat up the 3500 crown subs for 1-2 mil gold a month. You can make a million a month just off doing crafting dailies on 9 characters and doesn't include selling any of the rewards from those.
Sorry, I don't follow. So now instead of selling ESO+ subs for cash, a huge profit center for them, a sub-par version of ESO+ (no crowns included) will be able to be bought with in-game gold, which they make zero off of? And all those people buying the ESO+ sub for just the craft bag that don't care about the 1500 crowns, would convert over to buying subs with gold, costing ZOS a huge portion of their monthly ESO+ sales?
In what way would that motivate ZOS to change to that system, or did I completely misunderstand what you meant?
You don't understand.
* Sub bought with real money = you get 1650 crowns and cost current sub fee
* Sub bought with crowns = cost is 3500 crowns and you don't get crowns with that sub.
Either way, the only way to introduce more crowns into the system is to buy those crowns with real money. From a financial standpoint it doesn't really matter to ZOS if someone is buying crown packs or subs. The end result is more sales for ZOS and happier customers( which also encourages them to spend more).
You are missing the point where people don't currently sell their monthly crown allotment very often, but if you made it dead easy to do so, they would. Also, many folks only buy the sub for the craft bag and don't overly care about the extra crowns, and would happily give them up, meaning they would buy the sub for crowns you are proposing instead of using cash, costing ZOS a huge portion of their sub for cash business.
So here you have a huge new supply of easily sold/purchased crowns floating around in game from players that kept the sub for cash and are now easily turning those crowns into gold. Those crowns already existed in-game, they just weren't being traded for gold, but as soon as they can be, ZOS loses a ton of both their crown and sub for cash sales.
You are throwing a bunch of incorrect assumptions at the wall and seeing what you can get to stick here. If i bother to debate your assumptions, you will just pull a bunch more random assumptions out of thin air and try to pass them off as facts. No thanks. We will agree to disagree on how virtual markets work.2 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭1. Selling Crowns like you would sell raw mats and you would put a price on them, someone buys them and those crowns are added to their account and you get the gold.
2. You buy an object from the crown store and can then sell that item, people may prefer option A. as it would allow more freedom however option B. would allow people to get older crown store items and then list them long after they have been retired, imagine if someone paid for the "Princely Dawnlight Palace" playerhome and then waited half a year before listing it for 30 million gold, I imagine there would be some mega rich people willing to pay that.Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on April 7, 2021 4:06AM1 -
Kwoung✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They should have set it up so crowns could be sold this way from the beginning. This type of transaction in other games is good for well to do players that can afford to buy premium currency regularly, poorer players that struggle to afford premium currency, and the developer who benefits from increased sales. I can't believe they are not taking advantage of this income stream fully. It also improves the happiness of the player population in general and happy players play more and buy more.
Not sure how I see this increasing Crown Sales, which ZOS does a ton of already. There is a pretty simple system in place by players to buy/sell crowns either through reputable website brokers, as well as the many guilds offer the service as well to members.
The only things I see this suggestion doing, is tanking the value of crowns and protecting the folks that currently try to buy from the cheapest zone spammers, who a percentage of the time are going to rip you off. But that's a buyer beware issue, if you want to cheap out and risk buying off the back of that truck instead of through a legitimate outlet, that's on the buyer. Also, the crown market would pretty much dry up, costing ZOS sales once the Crown to Gold value dropped to a particular level, as no one would buy crowns to sell if it wasn't worth their time. If every Tom, *** & Harry with ESO+ dumped their 1500 crowns per month on traders, there would be almost no sales left for ZOS. Under the current system, you have to "buy" the full amount from one person, who gifts you the item, not piecemeal together enough crowns at discounted prices to buy that 15,000 crown home.
Plus, selling actual Crowns or Gold, is against their TOS.
The current crown for gold exchange system makes it easy for one party or the other to get scammed. I don't consider any guild or website to be reputable sellers even if they are. There is still a chance of getting scammed from another player in either case and a chance i can lose my crowns or gold in the process.
Personally i am a big advocate of a crown voucher system. Party A buys a crown voucher in predetermined amounts say 100 crowns each from the crown store. This voucher is similar to a motif page or style page in function. You can bank it, mail it, pass it around, etc etc...but most importantly you can sell it on the guild store. Party B can then shop for crown vouchers just like they would a motif for example. They buy it and then they use it just like a motif page except instead of adding a style to a collection it adds 100 crowns to their account. THAT is the way this should operate not on a trust based system with strangers.
In other games it increased sales significantly. Player A may make a lot of real money but not have a lot of time. Player B may have a lot of time but don't have a lot of free funds to spend on the game. Player A buys vouchers and lists them on the guild store. Player B buys them from player A. Player B gets crowns they normally wouldn't be able to get and player A gets gold to spend on things they want buy but don't have the money for. Furthermore, i would make subs something you could buy this way. A lot of non plus players would have plus if they could earn crowns and buy it.
I won't do the crown for gold exchange myself because i don't consider the system to be safe or reliable and this is a common concern both from the crown seller and crown buyers.
There have a been a few games that have added this feature while i have played them and premium currency sales increased by multiples. All those whales that want to run end game content but cant put the effort into all the prep that would be required of them buying carries, people buying prints, motifs, and sticker book gear.
Especially with all the new players and old money in this game. There are players sitting on tens and hundreds of millions of gold with nothing to do with it. But if they could just convert it safely and conveniently into crowns then that wealthy would get redistributed.
I know how the whole system works. But until ZOS decides to remove the 1500 crowns a month from ESO+, which would *** off a lot more players than would be made happy, it can't happen. The market would be flooded with 1500 crown vouchers and there would be zero reason for anyone to buy crowns from ZOS ever again. Those other games you mention, don't give out their game store currency as part of their sub, ESO does.
Or they could just make the cost of sub bought with crowns 3500 crowns and subs bought with crowns don't get the free crowns. It's normal for GTCs to be less bang for the buck than a monthly sub. People would still eat up the 3500 crown subs for 1-2 mil gold a month. You can make a million a month just off doing crafting dailies on 9 characters and doesn't include selling any of the rewards from those.
Sorry, I don't follow. So now instead of selling ESO+ subs for cash, a huge profit center for them, a sub-par version of ESO+ (no crowns included) will be able to be bought with in-game gold, which they make zero off of? And all those people buying the ESO+ sub for just the craft bag that don't care about the 1500 crowns, would convert over to buying subs with gold, costing ZOS a huge portion of their monthly ESO+ sales?
In what way would that motivate ZOS to change to that system, or did I completely misunderstand what you meant?
You don't understand.
* Sub bought with real money = you get 1650 crowns and cost current sub fee
* Sub bought with crowns = cost is 3500 crowns and you don't get crowns with that sub.
Either way, the only way to introduce more crowns into the system is to buy those crowns with real money. From a financial standpoint it doesn't really matter to ZOS if someone is buying crown packs or subs. The end result is more sales for ZOS and happier customers( which also encourages them to spend more).
You are missing the point where people don't currently sell their monthly crown allotment very often, but if you made it dead easy to do so, they would. Also, many folks only buy the sub for the craft bag and don't overly care about the extra crowns, and would happily give them up, meaning they would buy the sub for crowns you are proposing instead of using cash, costing ZOS a huge portion of their sub for cash business.
So here you have a huge new supply of easily sold/purchased crowns floating around in game from players that kept the sub for cash and are now easily turning those crowns into gold. Those crowns already existed in-game, they just weren't being traded for gold, but as soon as they can be, ZOS loses a ton of both their crown and sub for cash sales.
You are throwing a bunch of incorrect assumptions at the wall and seeing what you can get to stick here. If i bother to debate your assumptions, you will just pull a bunch more random assumptions out of thin air and try to pass them off as facts. No thanks. We will agree to disagree on how virtual markets work.
Not assumptions, I run both a small social/trade guild and a crown exchange, so I probably have more insight into this than most. Very seldom are crown sales filled by the folks from their monthly crown stipence from ESO+. 85% or more of the time they are filled by someone who purchased crowns directly. I have asked many a member and the ones with ESO+ tend to mostly just save up their crowns or buy little things for themselves along the way, as they don't want to bother selling them, as most sales surpass the 1500 or whatever they get a month and have on hand. However, it is *highly* likely that if a system was put in place where they could just drop those 1500 crowns on a guild trader for some quick gold, they would. This would in fact flood the market with crowns and seriously affect ZOS's direct crown sales. Being able to piece together 15,000 crowns from 10 folks selling their monthly allotment on numerous guild traders to buy that new notable home, instead of having to buy them all at once either yourself or with gold from someone else who bought them all at once directly from ZOS, would have a serious affect on their current business model.
If players sell their crowns directly, there is no way for them to keep giving them out to ESO+ subs and maintain their current crown sales without some serious changes being made. I personally like my little crown allotment from ESO+ and would not want to lose it.
Edited by Kwoung on April 7, 2021 5:30AM0 -
PrayingSeraph✭✭✭✭✭Personally I'd rather they just made crown and gold selling bannable offences and took extremely firm action against all forms of botting. I know a lot of players generally wouldn't agree, but I bet a lot of those who've been scammed would do along with a lot of those who constantly complain about botting.
Strongly disagree, however what you are saying likely won't ever happen. ZOS has already opened the "Pandora's Box" so to speak and it will be extremely hard to close it ever again. Should they ever make it a bannable offense, there will be countless casualties of loyal innocent minded players who will get banned because they missed the memo. Players take breaks from the game all the time, only to come back later to play the game. Such players would be at big risk of unintentionally breaking the rules. Also it's unlikely that the majority of players pay attention to ZOS social media, this site news or this forum, so they would probably miss the memo as well.
Edited by PrayingSeraph on April 7, 2021 6:11AM1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh sure. 5,000 Crowns, only for the low low price of 5 million gold.
For a person like me, working to earn the paycheck to buy my own Crowns is easier than earning the amount of gold people want for their stuff.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PrayingSeraph wrote: »Personally I'd rather they just made crown and gold selling bannable offences and took extremely firm action against all forms of botting. I know a lot of players generally wouldn't agree, but I bet a lot of those who've been scammed would do along with a lot of those who constantly complain about botting.
Strongly disagree, however what you are saying likely won't ever happen. ZOS has already opened the "Pandora's Box" so to speak and it will be extremely hard to close it ever again. Should they ever make it a bannable offense, there will be countless casualties of loyal innocent minded players who will get banned because they missed the memo. Players take breaks from the game all the time, only to come back later to play the game. Such players would be at big risk of unintentionally breaking the rules. Also it's unlikely that the majority of players pay attention to ZOS social media, this site news or this forum, so they would probably miss the memo as well.
I totally agree with you. ZOS are never going to ban crown sales any more than they are ever going to allow them in guild stores. All we are doing here is expressing our personal opinions about whether crown sales are a good thing or not, and if so how best to arrange them.0
