Predict max dps of the Companions

Bobby_V_Rockit · April 2021

Indeed...

jle30303 · April 2021

I don't even care if a companion does much damage, what I would love is if it could take the aggro from large trash groups in public dungeons, and stand up to it while my glass-cannon magicka dps characters actually get to survive long enough to cast the aoes that will take the group down.

I have no problem at all surviving those groups on a tanky character, but on a level 20-30 magicka necromancer, a trash group of 7-8 mobs can be lethal...

highkingnm · April 2021

I'm speccing mine as a tank to hold taunt whilst I burn so I don't care too much, but, given it seems we can gear them as we wish, I can actually see them breaking 10k if you give them Rele and another set which buffs on light attacks and just set them to LA. Certainly, I can see them doing more than some of the potato DPS I've carried in my time.

Artemis_X_ · April 2021

Suppose if we're giving them gear a couple of proc sets will and a spammable will do more. Damage than alot of people tbh.

Mojmir · April 2021

Real question is...are they immortal? Will they need rez? Can't fulfill a role if your dead. Pets can just be recast.

Artemis_X_ · April 2021

Mojmir wrote: »

Real question is...are they immortal? Will they need rez? Can't fulfill a role if your dead.

Or can they res us?

Sandman929 · April 2021

About as much as a single Cyrodiil guard. So not much.

Athan1 · April 2021

1k

(I actually think it'll be 8k)

spartaxoxo · April 2021

Seraphayel wrote: »

lol @ people who expect Companions to make use of proc sets, that they can weave / animation cancel and will be able to deal +20k DPS.

These expectations are beyond delusional.

How would that even work? You go afk in a mob spawn somewhere and your Companion just farms for you while you’re watching a TV show or cooking a meal? While you’re doing your daily workout or walk your dog?

I don't think anyone expects them to animations cancel or weave. It would be easy to get ones with a base of like 10k up to 20 if they can wear the same gear as we do. And 10k is close to what existing pets can do their own unequipped

CleymenZero · April 2021

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Why would they be so low? They could do 50k and still be half of a good player. If they’re intended to make soloing as a tank or healer less painful then they’d have to be at least equal to a mediocre DPS.

I second that.

If they're useless for any of the roles, there would be no point in bringing one vs the lowest skilled of players in raid.

Actually, as long as they don't barswap in vCR, they'll prolly be better than a lot of pugs.

I would only bring one in raid for those impromptu runs.

Kurat · April 2021

Mojmir wrote: »

Real question is...are they immortal? Will they need rez? Can't fulfill a role if your dead. Pets can just be recast.

They're not immortal because we saw that they had self heals and dmg reduction skills. And they are summoned like pets or banker/merch. So most likely if you die they also dissapear.

codierussell · April 2021

Honestly I don't see why 50k is unreasonable. I just looked at a quick log and find a random stam dk that did 91k, I looked at a stam dk since the reveal showed dk skills. In this log 13k was from light attacks and 9k was from relequen. SO, even if the companions don't light attack at all that still adds to 70k DPS. Now factor in less than optimal AI and how skills and such work I don't see why 50k would be unrealistic. Setting specific rotations will be easy and everyone could do it.

Seraphayel · April 2021

codierussell wrote: »

Honestly I don't see why 50k is unreasonable. I just looked at a quick log and find a random stam dk that did 91k, I looked at a stam dk since the reveal showed dk skills. In this log 13k was from light attacks and 9k was from relequen. SO, even if the companions don't light attack at all that still adds to 70k DPS. Now factor in less than optimal AI and how skills and such work I don't see why 50k would be unrealistic. Setting specific rotations will be easy and everyone could do it.

Because Companions are not supposed to play the game for you. With DPS beyond 10k they’d just replace you. Most non-vet content could be soloed by Companions, you could just be a bystander. As I said earlier, park your character in midst a mob spawn in Craglorn or a public dungeon and go afk - your Companion could farm CP for you while you’re not even in front of your screen.

Vlad9425 · April 2021

The DPS of the companions will be 0 same as us because they’ll just be stuck in 3 day maintenances just like us 🥴

Kurat · April 2021

codierussell wrote: »

Honestly I don't see why 50k is unreasonable. I just looked at a quick log and find a random stam dk that did 91k, I looked at a stam dk since the reveal showed dk skills. In this log 13k was from light attacks and 9k was from relequen. SO, even if the companions don't light attack at all that still adds to 70k DPS. Now factor in less than optimal AI and how skills and such work I don't see why 50k would be unrealistic. Setting specific rotations will be easy and everyone could do it.

Their skills have long cooldowns, 8-16 sec. Because of that they cant pull even close to players dps. They also only have 1 bar and the skills are not the same as players dk for example. Even spammable had 8 sec cooldown.

spartaxoxo · April 2021

codierussell wrote: »

Honestly I don't see why 50k is unreasonable. I just looked at a quick log and find a random stam dk that did 91k, I looked at a stam dk since the reveal showed dk skills. In this log 13k was from light attacks and 9k was from relequen. SO, even if the companions don't light attack at all that still adds to 70k DPS. Now factor in less than optimal AI and how skills and such work I don't see why 50k would be unrealistic. Setting specific rotations will be easy and everyone could do it.

I'm sorry but how does 13k from light attacks and 9k from gear mean that it adds to 70k dps?

70k dps is way above what the average player can do, so is 50k. Average player is sitting at like 30k. And they will definitely make the companion a bit worse than the average player so you'll still be willing to group with them.

You can maybe argue they'll hit like 20k-25k because that's both below average and achievable with just gear and light attacking with a skill occasionally thrown in. Anything beyond that is a pipe dream and even 20-25k is an optimistic estimate.

Goregrinder · April 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

Honestly I don't see why 50k is unreasonable. I just looked at a quick log and find a random stam dk that did 91k, I looked at a stam dk since the reveal showed dk skills. In this log 13k was from light attacks and 9k was from relequen. SO, even if the companions don't light attack at all that still adds to 70k DPS. Now factor in less than optimal AI and how skills and such work I don't see why 50k would be unrealistic. Setting specific rotations will be easy and everyone could do it.

I'm sorry but how does 13k from light attacks and 9k from gear mean that it adds to 70k dps?

70k dps is way above what the average player can do, so is 50k. Average player is sitting at like 30k. And they will definitely make the companion a bit worse than the average player so you'll still be willing to group with them.

You can maybe argue they'll hit like 20k-25k because that's both below average and achievable with just gear and light attacking with a skill occasionally thrown in. Anything beyond that is a pipe dream and even 20-25k is an optimistic estimate.

91k - 13k - 9k = 69k dps.

spartaxoxo · April 2021

Goregrinder wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

Honestly I don't see why 50k is unreasonable. I just looked at a quick log and find a random stam dk that did 91k, I looked at a stam dk since the reveal showed dk skills. In this log 13k was from light attacks and 9k was from relequen. SO, even if the companions don't light attack at all that still adds to 70k DPS. Now factor in less than optimal AI and how skills and such work I don't see why 50k would be unrealistic. Setting specific rotations will be easy and everyone could do it.

I'm sorry but how does 13k from light attacks and 9k from gear mean that it adds to 70k dps?

70k dps is way above what the average player can do, so is 50k. Average player is sitting at like 30k. And they will definitely make the companion a bit worse than the average player so you'll still be willing to group with them.

You can maybe argue they'll hit like 20k-25k because that's both below average and achievable with just gear and light attacking with a skill occasionally thrown in. Anything beyond that is a pipe dream and even 20-25k is an optimistic estimate.

91k - 13k - 9k = 69k dps.

That doesn't make sense. Why would you be subtracting from a high end dps with class skills to figure out the dps without them?

ccfeeling · April 2021

There are 3 new skill lines for each type of companion.

Tank
Healer
Dps

New companion cp system release at the same time, 3600 cp again

More cp, more dps, tanky and healing

RageKing · April 2021

gonna be first to complete all vet dungeons as a pure tank with my dd companion and his 5k dps. Also must gotta do it in first person for the real RP

PigofSteel · April 2021

They will take average damage which is around 15k and than give it 1/3 of that so we are expecting around 5k damage.

Kwoung · April 2021

PigofSteel wrote: »

They will take average damage which is around 15k and than give it 1/3 of that so we are expecting around 5k damage.

15K is average damage? Is spamming light attacks all the average player doing? Serious question, since I can get 15K with nothing but light attacks after the last patch, I would hope the "average" player would be using some of their skills and doing closer to 30k. Most of the casual players I know do about 50k now.

That was the entire point of the last patch, raise the low end and lower the high end. Anyone with CP that is still in the 5-10K range at this point, must be mostly afk while playing to do that poorly.

GreenHere · April 2021

Kwoung wrote: »

PigofSteel wrote: »

They will take average damage which is around 15k and than give it 1/3 of that so we are expecting around 5k damage.

15K is average damage? Is spamming light attacks all the average player doing? Serious question, since I can get 15K with nothing but light attacks after the last patch, I would hope the "average" player would be using some of their skills and doing closer to 30k. Most of the casual players I know do about 50k now.

That was the entire point of the last patch, raise the low end and lower the high end. Anyone with CP that is still in the 5-10K range at this point, must be mostly afk while playing to do that poorly.

I think that's largely a difference in the personal definition of average that we all have. I personally know players that struggle mightily to get 20K (on real targets, not the Iron Atro) because they...
- Have unoptimized gear
- Have unoptimized CP
- Have a hard time weaving, and/or neglect it entirely
- Have a hard time keeping skills consistently applied
- Have a hard time staying oriented in combat when the vfx kick into superultimateomegaoverdrive
- Have a hard time knowing what to do in combat in general, besides "attack and don't die"
- Are just not that good at video games to begin with

Now, whether or not we should consider these players "average" or not is debatable, but my point is I think a lot of people are thinking of that kind of average, whereas you might be thinking of ~50K DPS players who try to optimize their builds and practice rotations as average. Know what I mean?

Also, don't forget a lot of people's view of "average" is still calibrated for the landscape before this latest update (when the lower end was still substantially lower). CP 2.0 and Flames of Ambition are still fairly new, and a lot of folks need time to adjust and reevaluate their definition of "average" in the new meta. 15K sounds fairly average to me, until recently.

Kwoung · April 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

PigofSteel wrote: »

They will take average damage which is around 15k and than give it 1/3 of that so we are expecting around 5k damage.

15K is average damage? Is spamming light attacks all the average player doing? Serious question, since I can get 15K with nothing but light attacks after the last patch, I would hope the "average" player would be using some of their skills and doing closer to 30k. Most of the casual players I know do about 50k now.

That was the entire point of the last patch, raise the low end and lower the high end. Anyone with CP that is still in the 5-10K range at this point, must be mostly afk while playing to do that poorly.

I think that's largely a difference in the personal definition of average that we all have. I personally know players that struggle mightily to get 20K (on real targets, not the Iron Atro) because they...
- Have unoptimized gear
- Have unoptimized CP
- Have a hard time weaving, and/or neglect it entirely
- Have a hard time keeping skills consistently applied
- Have a hard time staying oriented in combat when the vfx kick into superultimateomegaoverdrive
- Have a hard time knowing what to do in combat in general, besides "attack and don't die"
- Are just not that good at video games to begin with

Now, whether or not we should consider these players "average" or not is debatable, but my point is I think a lot of people are thinking of that kind of average, whereas you might be thinking of ~50K DPS players who try to optimize their builds and practice rotations as average. Know what I mean?

Also, don't forget a lot of people's view of "average" is still calibrated for the landscape before this latest update (when the lower end was still substantially lower). CP 2.0 and Flames of Ambition are still fairly new, and a lot of folks need time to adjust and reevaluate their definition of "average" in the new meta. 15K sounds fairly average to me, until recently.

I'll buy that. I pretty much define average as someone who is actually trying, put some thought into their gear and skills and knows how to use them at a basic level for the most part. They haven't perfected weaving, may not have a lot of or properly allotted CP, but aren't simply spamming LA/random skills and calling it a day. But yes, the old average was much lower than the new one and I can understand how many may not be quite aware of that yet.

Elsonso · April 2021

Mojmir wrote: »

Real question is...are they immortal? Will they need rez? Can't fulfill a role if your dead. Pets can just be recast.

If they do die, can my Necromancer use them?

Waffennacht · April 2021

.

Kwoung wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

PigofSteel wrote: »

They will take average damage which is around 15k and than give it 1/3 of that so we are expecting around 5k damage.

15K is average damage? Is spamming light attacks all the average player doing? Serious question, since I can get 15K with nothing but light attacks after the last patch, I would hope the "average" player would be using some of their skills and doing closer to 30k. Most of the casual players I know do about 50k now.

That was the entire point of the last patch, raise the low end and lower the high end. Anyone with CP that is still in the 5-10K range at this point, must be mostly afk while playing to do that poorly.

I think that's largely a difference in the personal definition of average that we all have. I personally know players that struggle mightily to get 20K (on real targets, not the Iron Atro) because they...
- Have unoptimized gear
- Have unoptimized CP
- Have a hard time weaving, and/or neglect it entirely
- Have a hard time keeping skills consistently applied
- Have a hard time staying oriented in combat when the vfx kick into superultimateomegaoverdrive
- Have a hard time knowing what to do in combat in general, besides "attack and don't die"
- Are just not that good at video games to begin with

Now, whether or not we should consider these players "average" or not is debatable, but my point is I think a lot of people are thinking of that kind of average, whereas you might be thinking of ~50K DPS players who try to optimize their builds and practice rotations as average. Know what I mean?

Also, don't forget a lot of people's view of "average" is still calibrated for the landscape before this latest update (when the lower end was still substantially lower). CP 2.0 and Flames of Ambition are still fairly new, and a lot of folks need time to adjust and reevaluate their definition of "average" in the new meta. 15K sounds fairly average to me, until recently.

I'll buy that. I pretty much define average as someone who is actually trying, put some thought into their gear and skills and knows how to use them at a basic level for the most part. They haven't perfected weaving, may not have a lot of or properly allotted CP, but aren't simply spamming LA/random skills and calling it a day. But yes, the old average was much lower than the new one and I can understand how many may not be quite aware of that yet.

I dont know new averages.

I do know what it takes to beat dungeons though

Again; anything above 20k dps on a 3 mill is more than enough to solo all vet dungeons.

Just sayin

codierussell · April 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

That doesn't make sense. Why would you be subtracting from a high end dps with class skills to figure out the dps without them?

Because 70k dps is with a skills only rotation. You are supposed to be able to set your companions rotation for skills, and the rotation is actually the easiest part of dps, executing the rotation is the part people struggle with. So if I take a top dps rotation for stam dk, implement it on my companion, eliminate all light attacks and the relequen damage (since it procs off of light attacks) then you get 70k just knowing how to line up dots. Therefore with the AI that is bound to be not that greatest I would say 50k is more than achievable on a boss. Only time will tell but from what I have heard from interviews that is what it seems like.

GreenHere · April 2021

Elsonso wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Real question is...are they immortal? Will they need rez? Can't fulfill a role if your dead. Pets can just be recast.

If they do die, can my Necromancer use them?

OVERY THEIR DEAD BODY!!

...wait....

Wait! NONONO, put that back!

jaws343 · April 2021

codierussell wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

That doesn't make sense. Why would you be subtracting from a high end dps with class skills to figure out the dps without them?

Because 70k dps is with a skills only rotation. You are supposed to be able to set your companions rotation for skills, and the rotation is actually the easiest part of dps, executing the rotation is the part people struggle with. So if I take a top dps rotation for stam dk, implement it on my companion, eliminate all light attacks and the relequen damage (since it procs off of light attacks) then you get 70k just knowing how to line up dots. Therefore with the AI that is bound to be not that greatest I would say 50k is more than achievable on a boss. Only time will tell but from what I have heard from interviews that is what it seems like.

But, that DPS range also includes bar swapping, 10 skill slots, and no cooldowns on skills.

We've already seen that these skills will have cooldowns for companions. We've seen what looks like only one bar. Still just assumptions that we can equip normal gear to them.

In order to get 50K dps, off skills that have 8 second (or potentially more) cooldowns, we would need the skills to do a ton of damage each. And as was seen in the stream, they do like 2-3K damage. Hardly an amount that would work up to 70K DPS.

itscompton · April 2021

Waffennacht wrote: »

15k dps would allow you to solo all vet dungeons except maybe two with a 5k dps build.

A build only needs 20-25K dps (on 3 mill dummy) to complete All non-trial content (even in vet)

So a companion that puts out near that amount would mean literal AFK

The damage might be enough to help you solo but I'll be surprised if the companions are sophisticated enough to use synergies to break you free quickly enough during the unsurvivable stun/death mechanics some of the vet dungeouns employ.