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I am just happy more people on forum are complaining about hyper inflation
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spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »
[Quoted post was removed]spartaxoxo wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »ForzaRammer wrote: »Auth3nticGlitch wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Are those really the ways most players gain gold?
When I think of quick ways to gain lots of gold through gameplay, I don't ever recommend "Yo, play PVP so if your alliance wins you too can make 19,000 gold every month!" I think my personal "Thanks for participating!" Reward from the Grand Warlord is usually around 3,000 gold a month?
Just saying.
Haha right? Whenever I need to make gold I’ll go farming mats, overland sets, daily quests which provide motifs, recipes etc and sell all of it. Not to mention deconstruction and refining jewellery mats so I get the grains/plating I can sell.
The last resort is fishing for perfect roe or psijic satchels but fishing is hardly rewardable especially considering I can filet 600 fish and due to rngesus sometimes only get 2 perfect roe, which takes hours of fishing to get.
Ngl, I hate the prices being so high when I go to purchase something but the prices I can sell the items I farm is starting to balance everything out for me.
Gaining mats or motif is not gaining gold directly.
It does not contribute to inflation.
Only direct gold gain out of thin air cause inflation.
Yes, but they also demonstrate part of the issue with restricting gold generation from gameplay. Farming stuff to sell to other players may not be gold generation, but it's a lot more profitable than any source of gold generation from gameplay. Players who farm stuff to sell will always by able to accumulate gold through trading - its gold transfer, not gold creation, but those players won't lack for gold to buy what they want. On the other hand, it's the players who typically get their gold from gameplay who have much less gold and who complain that their meager gold doesn't let them buy what they need.
When you throttle the ability of players to get gold from the Justice System, Antiquities, or Crafting Writs, or questing, you also throttle the ability of players to make decent amounts of gold without selling stuff to other players. That's immediately harmful to players who don't like trading guilds. It's secondarily harmful to players who don't like to be self-sufficient farmers, since they still need stuff, but now they can't get the gold through gameplay to buy what they need except through even greater effort.
Most of my gold comes through trading materials, at this point. If you throttle gold from gameplay, it's not going to hurt me much, because I have reserves and I'm willing to farm mats that would otherwise be a big gold outlay. But at 8 million gold, I'm rich compared to the average player.
But for new players, throttling their ability to get gold through gameplay is only going to force them into farming stuff for sale or leave them perpetually gold-poor. More importantly, from a game design standpoint, it takes away rewards from normal gameplay, and instead encourages players to join in the trading minigame of gold transfer between players.
- I say this as someone who, when I was a brand new player terrified of joining a guild, made my gold by harvesting mats and selling them to the NPC vendors. Yeah, feel free to laugh.
Hey, a stack of 200 iron sold for 800 gold! Similarly, when I made a brand new character on the EU server for a day, my starting gold came from stealing stuff in Vulkhel Guard and hawking it to the fence. So seriously, when you throttle sources of gold from gameplay, players who don't want to join guilds are going to get hit hard. New players are going to struggle to gain gold unless they quickly start farming accessible stuff like reagents to sell and join a trading guild.
Gold transfer should be a important part of game play.
Trading guild is a system unique to this game. It should be featured more.
Nerfing direct gold gain make trade guild more important.
This is a good thing, show the alternative to a boring auction house.
Claims hyper inflation is morally wrong
Also claims gold gain being monopolized by a few trading guilds is good.
I don't follow the logic here tbh. Please make it make sense.
Trade guild don’t gain gold directly. I see no issue with any indirect gold gain.
Balance issue possibly exist. But that’s for a different discussion.
But the idea of inflation being morally wrong is it concentrates too much power into the hands of a few. While smaller people make peanuts that aren't worth much and can't buy the goods they need. At least for most people.
Making traders overly important does the same thing to an even higher extreme.
So how is one morally correct and one not.
Then increase the sales tax
That doesn't address the issue stated at all. There are a far less traders spots than there are players and rich players will be able to secure multiple spots, further limiting the number of slots.
When the coin comes from questing and the likes instead, this is not a concern but gold generation can be.
Right now, to use real world terms. You're saying the solution is to fire nearly everyone in our country and give jobs only to the rich. And when it's pointed out to you that exacerbates the problem you claim to have a problem with, you think raising the sales tax will somehow fix massive unemployment.
It wouldn't.
[Quoted post was removed]
[Quoted post was removed]
I guess so, but the color code has meaning to me. The code is ba553d which was an in joke I use to have with a buddy before we lost touch. And I would use that color often on another forum with an admittedly less bright background color that made this one seem less harsh red and more soft rose petal. 🌹 💐 People still listened to what I had to say back then, so much so that I was actually a fairly popular poster. I'm not saying that to brag, because that's really nothing special. It's moreso to point out that people didn't really skip over my posts due to it.
Ofc that was all a long time ago now. People were tolerant of differently colored posts, image posts, and pretty much everyone had a signature image back then. I used to make them for people and then smile everytime I saw someone enjoying my art.
When I saw this forum allowed bbcode, it made me a bit nostalgic for these older forum days where a bit of creativity in the posting style was fairly normal. So I broke out my old trusty code.
Perhaps I'll leave it off longer posts and save it for smaller ones.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 5, 2021 12:39PM0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."5 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
Now imagine if there was no weekly bid and Guilds could buy a Vendor Kiosk reasonable. What would change?
- By and large no weekly dues necessary
- No more strange 'contests' or 'raffles', etc all for the purpose of generating money for the bid. (Asking ppl for their raw mats, seriously?)
- Setup Kiosk locations to allow for double as many Guilds to 'rent' a Kiosk based on the size of the Guild, regardless of location. Price should be no more than 500k and steps should be taken to prevent abuse from anarchists buying up the Kiosks.
- Guilds would have to compete by what they sell rather than where their Kiosk is
- Players would not need to be harassed for weekly dues outside of what they agreed to upon joining the Guild
- This would fix alot of problems in the game, it will permit competition and many Guilds would be forced to try and roll back prices or they won't last
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.Edited by Nagastani on April 5, 2021 11:54AM3 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.
The bidding mechanic is easily largest gold sink and fierce competition ensures as much gold gets flushed down the toilet as possible each week. Trader bids easily flush hundreds of millions of gold out of the economy every week. Getting rid of it would lead to crazy hyoerinflation
It makes no sense for a new or small trade guild to get a premium spot. Those spots are considered premium only because people know the guilds there have had dedicated teams working for years building a competitive guild store. If those locations were suddenly filled with new guilds with far below average stores then people wouldn't go there to shop anyway.
New guilds start at smaller locations and grow from there. Getting a new guild off the ground is going to require a capital investment and a lot of dedication.
People think that large trade guilds only stay afloat because they're too big to fail which is completely wrong. They have a team of people putting in hours of work every week to raise money for the bid because taxes alone aren't even close to enough to afford the bid. They organize events, raffles, auctions, etc every single week and have done so for many years.Edited by Eedat on April 5, 2021 12:06PM5 -
James-Wayne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just introduce a new currency and boom everyone is back on the same level. Previous gold holdings are now worth nothing!
PERTH, AUSTRALIA | PC | NA | @Aussie-Elders
TENTH ANNIVERSARY - Thanks for sticking with us for 10 years.
James-Wayne you earned this badge 9:56AM on 4th of February 2024.
529 people have also earned this badge.0 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭wouldn't hyperinflation mean everything gets more expensive?
while what we see is only some things having risen like crazy. Which would mean overscarcity of these resources. not hyperinflation...ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)5 -
Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭A new trade guild is just like any new small business. It takes time to grow before you can compete with larger more established businesses. "Management" must learn how and be as dedicated as management of the larger businesses. The better the management team the better growth. Expecting a new trading guild to compete with an established one is just silly.
Similarly, accumulating gold is a learning process. When I first started all my gold came from quests, writs and selling to vendors. After a few months I had accumalated almost a million then joined a small trading guild. It took MONTHS for me to learn how to sell, what to sell and when. Almost 2 years later, I'm in one of the larger trading guilds, established in Grahtwood, and sell 500k to a little over a million a week. I do the occasional flip but mostly I farm (getting lucky on a pattern once in awhile..but I still always use the first one I get no matter the price at the time and only sell dupes) and decon. Something anyone can do. I'm not rich with just a little over 18 million but it allows me to drop a million at the lux vendor, furnish my housing by supporting trade guilds and other players with my furnishing purchases and I will NEVER pay more than something is worth TO ME! I have gold because like in real life I do not live beyond my means.
Asking for pricing to be regulated by an outside entity will NOT solve a problem that doesn't exist.
4 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.
The bidding mechanic is easily largest gold sink and fierce competition ensures as much gold gets flushed down the toilet as possible each week. Trader bids easily flush hundreds of millions of gold out of the economy every week. Getting rid of it would lead to crazy hyoerinflation
It makes no sense for a new or small trade guild to get a premium spot. Those spots are considered premium only because people know the guilds there have had dedicated teams working for years building a competitive guild store. If those locations were suddenly filled with new guilds with far below average stores then people wouldn't go there to shop anyway.
New guilds start at smaller locations and grow from there. Getting a new guild off the ground is going to require a capital investment and a lot of dedication.
People think that large trade guilds only stay afloat because they're too big to fail which is completely wrong. They have a team of people putting in hours of work every week to raise money for the bid because taxes alone aren't even close to enough to afford the bid. They organize events, raffles, auctions, etc every single week and have done so for many years.
Who are you or I to decide that?
And what is a premium spot? That could all change with a new system and that is the idea here.0 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
I hope you're aware of how funny you are.
Okay then, let's divide everything by 2 : dropped gold, quest gold, trial plunder... everything.
When all is said and done and the market will have adjusted to that, the prices of goods sold from player to player (directly or over a guild trader) will be more or less divided by 2.
So everything being halved will not make any difference for anyone normally farming/playing/buying.
It will, however NOT have halved the gold reserves that rich players have in stock. You will factually have doubled their purchasing power. Niiiice ! But I guess not what you ought to achieve. Rather the opposite.4 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭A new trade guild is just like any new small business. It takes time to grow before you can compete with larger more established businesses. "Management" must learn how and be as dedicated as management of the larger businesses. The better the management team the better growth. Expecting a new trading guild to compete with an established one is just silly.
Similarly, accumulating gold is a learning process. When I first started all my gold came from quests, writs and selling to vendors. After a few months I had accumalated almost a million then joined a small trading guild. It took MONTHS for me to learn how to sell, what to sell and when. Almost 2 years later, I'm in one of the larger trading guilds, established in Grahtwood, and sell 500k to a little over a million a week. I do the occasional flip but mostly I farm (getting lucky on a pattern once in awhile..but I still always use the first one I get no matter the price at the time and only sell dupes) and decon. Something anyone can do. I'm not rich with just a little over 18 million but it allows me to drop a million at the lux vendor, furnish my housing by supporting trade guilds and other players with my furnishing purchases and I will NEVER pay more than something is worth TO ME! I have gold because like in real life I do not live beyond my means.
Asking for pricing to be regulated by an outside entity will NOT solve a problem that doesn't exist.
No one is talking about price regulation we're talking about rent regulation. You pay a reasonable fee to rent the hall and then it's up to you to dance in it.
The Guild can establish whatever prices it wants and shall be compared to it's peers.
But the hall should be rentable by everyone and not owned by a few, which is exactly the problem that exists now and has existed for years.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A new trade guild is just like any new small business. It takes time to grow before you can compete with larger more established businesses. "Management" must learn how and be as dedicated as management of the larger businesses. The better the management team the better growth. Expecting a new trading guild to compete with an established one is just silly.
Similarly, accumulating gold is a learning process. When I first started all my gold came from quests, writs and selling to vendors. After a few months I had accumalated almost a million then joined a small trading guild. It took MONTHS for me to learn how to sell, what to sell and when. Almost 2 years later, I'm in one of the larger trading guilds, established in Grahtwood, and sell 500k to a little over a million a week. I do the occasional flip but mostly I farm (getting lucky on a pattern once in awhile..but I still always use the first one I get no matter the price at the time and only sell dupes) and decon. Something anyone can do. I'm not rich with just a little over 18 million but it allows me to drop a million at the lux vendor, furnish my housing by supporting trade guilds and other players with my furnishing purchases and I will NEVER pay more than something is worth TO ME! I have gold because like in real life I do not live beyond my means.
Asking for pricing to be regulated by an outside entity will NOT solve a problem that doesn't exist.
No one is talking about price regulation we're talking about rent regulation. You pay a reasonable fee to rent the hall and then it's up to you to dance in it.
The Guild can establish whatever prices it wants and shall be compared to it's peers.
But the hall should be rentable by everyone and not owned by a few, which is exactly the problem that exists now and has existed for years.
But the rent is determined by the perceived value of the location. It's no different than the real world. A location in prime area like downtown of a major city is going to be more pricey than the location at the edge of town. If a business wants to get a prime location in downtown, they need to work towards it first.5 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭A new trade guild is just like any new small business. It takes time to grow before you can compete with larger more established businesses. "Management" must learn how and be as dedicated as management of the larger businesses. The better the management team the better growth. Expecting a new trading guild to compete with an established one is just silly.
Similarly, accumulating gold is a learning process. When I first started all my gold came from quests, writs and selling to vendors. After a few months I had accumalated almost a million then joined a small trading guild. It took MONTHS for me to learn how to sell, what to sell and when. Almost 2 years later, I'm in one of the larger trading guilds, established in Grahtwood, and sell 500k to a little over a million a week. I do the occasional flip but mostly I farm (getting lucky on a pattern once in awhile..but I still always use the first one I get no matter the price at the time and only sell dupes) and decon. Something anyone can do. I'm not rich with just a little over 18 million but it allows me to drop a million at the lux vendor, furnish my housing by supporting trade guilds and other players with my furnishing purchases and I will NEVER pay more than something is worth TO ME! I have gold because like in real life I do not live beyond my means.
Asking for pricing to be regulated by an outside entity will NOT solve a problem that doesn't exist.
No one is talking about price regulation we're talking about rent regulation. You pay a reasonable fee to rent the hall and then it's up to you to dance in it.
The Guild can establish whatever prices it wants and shall be compared to it's peers.
But the hall should be rentable by everyone and not owned by a few, which is exactly the problem that exists now and has existed for years.
But the rent is determined by the perceived value of the location. It's no different than the real world. A location in prime area like downtown of a major city is going to be more pricey than the location at the edge of town. If a business wants to get a prime location in downtown, they need to work towards it first.
True. Yet, only a handful of Guilds can access that location. What I'm proposing is basically two things:
1) Setup like a building maybe or something where more than 4 or 5 Guilds can rent for a reasonable fee on a weekly basis, based on the size of the Guild and not to exceed 500k. Example, allow 20 Guilds access to vendorage or some kind of mall where they can participate in the economy at this "premium" location. Because as of right now, we'll never know what these Guilds could do because the bid is keeping them from even being able to try.
2) Eliminate the weekly bid entirely to allow for smaller guilds to compete in the market, with the bid currently locking them out of well, the market, pretty much everywhere they go. Remember bids are insanely expensive even in non "premium" locations. I have my facts on this based on testimonials from Guild officers (whom I have known for years and they would not lie) and have even encountered the same myself when I was running a Trade Guild. The Outlaw Vendor in Auridon for example has sold in the past for over 2 Million, which there is no way an up start could possibly even think about being able to afford it and larger Guilds could buy these up as well.
Everyone does not have to have a reserved location on "the boardwalk" but even such a place still has cotton-candy machines doesn't it?Edited by Nagastani on April 5, 2021 1:11PM0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A new trade guild is just like any new small business. It takes time to grow before you can compete with larger more established businesses. "Management" must learn how and be as dedicated as management of the larger businesses. The better the management team the better growth. Expecting a new trading guild to compete with an established one is just silly.
Similarly, accumulating gold is a learning process. When I first started all my gold came from quests, writs and selling to vendors. After a few months I had accumalated almost a million then joined a small trading guild. It took MONTHS for me to learn how to sell, what to sell and when. Almost 2 years later, I'm in one of the larger trading guilds, established in Grahtwood, and sell 500k to a little over a million a week. I do the occasional flip but mostly I farm (getting lucky on a pattern once in awhile..but I still always use the first one I get no matter the price at the time and only sell dupes) and decon. Something anyone can do. I'm not rich with just a little over 18 million but it allows me to drop a million at the lux vendor, furnish my housing by supporting trade guilds and other players with my furnishing purchases and I will NEVER pay more than something is worth TO ME! I have gold because like in real life I do not live beyond my means.
Asking for pricing to be regulated by an outside entity will NOT solve a problem that doesn't exist.
No one is talking about price regulation we're talking about rent regulation. You pay a reasonable fee to rent the hall and then it's up to you to dance in it.
The Guild can establish whatever prices it wants and shall be compared to it's peers.
But the hall should be rentable by everyone and not owned by a few, which is exactly the problem that exists now and has existed for years.
But the rent is determined by the perceived value of the location. It's no different than the real world. A location in prime area like downtown of a major city is going to be more pricey than the location at the edge of town. If a business wants to get a prime location in downtown, they need to work towards it first.
True. Yet, only a handful of Guilds can access that location. What I'm proposing is basically two things:
1) Setup like a building maybe or something where more than 4 or 5 Guilds can rent for a reasonable fee on a weekly basis, based on the size of the Guild and not to exceed 500k. Example, allow 20 Guilds access to vendorage or some kind of mall where they can participate in the economy at this "premium" location. Because as of right now, we'll never know what these Guilds could do because the bid is keeping them from even being able to try.
2) Eliminate the weekly bid entirely to allow for smaller guilds to compete in the market, with the bid currently locking them out of well, the market, pretty much everywhere they go. Remember bids are insanely expensive even in non "premium" locations. I have my facts on this based on testimonials from Guild officers (whom I have known for years) and have even encountered the same myself when I was running a Trade Guild.
Only a handful of guilds can access the location is just not true.
I have a free trade guild that is normally in locations like Alinor or Markarth. And the leadership saves up gold for bids every month or so in prime locations like Mournhold. And we win those locations because they plan for it.
And I am also in a capital trader that loses bids in prime locations every so often due to this same thing. The main trader hubs are entirely accessible. Are they easy to get into? No. But acting like they are impossible and need to be changed is a bit much.3 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.
The bidding mechanic is easily largest gold sink and fierce competition ensures as much gold gets flushed down the toilet as possible each week. Trader bids easily flush hundreds of millions of gold out of the economy every week. Getting rid of it would lead to crazy hyoerinflation
It makes no sense for a new or small trade guild to get a premium spot. Those spots are considered premium only because people know the guilds there have had dedicated teams working for years building a competitive guild store. If those locations were suddenly filled with new guilds with far below average stores then people wouldn't go there to shop anyway.
New guilds start at smaller locations and grow from there. Getting a new guild off the ground is going to require a capital investment and a lot of dedication.
People think that large trade guilds only stay afloat because they're too big to fail which is completely wrong. They have a team of people putting in hours of work every week to raise money for the bid because taxes alone aren't even close to enough to afford the bid. They organize events, raffles, auctions, etc every single week and have done so for many years.
Who are you or I to decide that?
And what is a premium spot? That could all change with a new system and that is the idea here.
Then get a trader at a reasonable price in a more reasonable location? If you dont care about a premium spot than this is a non issue. If you want a premium spot then you have to put forth the effort and make good decisions to get there. You aren't going to get what others have put literal years of effort into maintaining overnight. The current bid system is actually fantastic at countering inflation and is self regulating. The more gold that is flowing around the higher the bids go and the more gold that gets pumped out. Flat fees that anyone can afford is an awful system in comparison that will cause long term problems2 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭A new trade guild is just like any new small business. It takes time to grow before you can compete with larger more established businesses. "Management" must learn how and be as dedicated as management of the larger businesses. The better the management team the better growth. Expecting a new trading guild to compete with an established one is just silly.
Similarly, accumulating gold is a learning process. When I first started all my gold came from quests, writs and selling to vendors. After a few months I had accumalated almost a million then joined a small trading guild. It took MONTHS for me to learn how to sell, what to sell and when. Almost 2 years later, I'm in one of the larger trading guilds, established in Grahtwood, and sell 500k to a little over a million a week. I do the occasional flip but mostly I farm (getting lucky on a pattern once in awhile..but I still always use the first one I get no matter the price at the time and only sell dupes) and decon. Something anyone can do. I'm not rich with just a little over 18 million but it allows me to drop a million at the lux vendor, furnish my housing by supporting trade guilds and other players with my furnishing purchases and I will NEVER pay more than something is worth TO ME! I have gold because like in real life I do not live beyond my means.
Asking for pricing to be regulated by an outside entity will NOT solve a problem that doesn't exist.
No one is talking about price regulation we're talking about rent regulation. You pay a reasonable fee to rent the hall and then it's up to you to dance in it.
The Guild can establish whatever prices it wants and shall be compared to it's peers.
But the hall should be rentable by everyone and not owned by a few, which is exactly the problem that exists now and has existed for years.
But the rent is determined by the perceived value of the location. It's no different than the real world. A location in prime area like downtown of a major city is going to be more pricey than the location at the edge of town. If a business wants to get a prime location in downtown, they need to work towards it first.
True. Yet, only a handful of Guilds can access that location. What I'm proposing is basically two things:
1) Setup like a building maybe or something where more than 4 or 5 Guilds can rent for a reasonable fee on a weekly basis, based on the size of the Guild and not to exceed 500k. Example, allow 20 Guilds access to vendorage or some kind of mall where they can participate in the economy at this "premium" location. Because as of right now, we'll never know what these Guilds could do because the bid is keeping them from even being able to try.
2) Eliminate the weekly bid entirely to allow for smaller guilds to compete in the market, with the bid currently locking them out of well, the market, pretty much everywhere they go. Remember bids are insanely expensive even in non "premium" locations. I have my facts on this based on testimonials from Guild officers (whom I have known for years) and have even encountered the same myself when I was running a Trade Guild.
Only a handful of guilds can access the location is just not true.
I have a free trade guild that is normally in locations like Alinor or Markarth. And the leadership saves up gold for bids every month or so in prime locations like Mournhold. And we win those locations because they plan for it.
And I am also in a capital trader that loses bids in prime locations every so often due to this same thing. The main trader hubs are entirely accessible. Are they easy to get into? No. But acting like they are impossible and need to be changed is a bit much.
But you just said there are more pricey locations... so it is true. Is it true or isn't it?0 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.
The bidding mechanic is easily largest gold sink and fierce competition ensures as much gold gets flushed down the toilet as possible each week. Trader bids easily flush hundreds of millions of gold out of the economy every week. Getting rid of it would lead to crazy hyoerinflation
It makes no sense for a new or small trade guild to get a premium spot. Those spots are considered premium only because people know the guilds there have had dedicated teams working for years building a competitive guild store. If those locations were suddenly filled with new guilds with far below average stores then people wouldn't go there to shop anyway.
New guilds start at smaller locations and grow from there. Getting a new guild off the ground is going to require a capital investment and a lot of dedication.
People think that large trade guilds only stay afloat because they're too big to fail which is completely wrong. They have a team of people putting in hours of work every week to raise money for the bid because taxes alone aren't even close to enough to afford the bid. They organize events, raffles, auctions, etc every single week and have done so for many years.
Who are you or I to decide that?
And what is a premium spot? That could all change with a new system and that is the idea here.
Then get a trader at a reasonable price in a more reasonable location? If you dont care about a premium spot than this is a non issue. If you want a premium spot then you have to put forth the effort and make good decisions to get there. You aren't going to get what others have put literal years of effort into maintaining overnight. The current bid system is actually fantastic at countering inflation and is self regulating. The more gold that is flowing around the higher the bids go and the more gold that gets pumped out. Flat fees that anyone can afford is an awful system in comparison that will cause long term problems
Reasonable according to whom? None of it is reasonable anywhere. Perhaps for you, perhaps for some Guilds it might considered reasonable. For a new Trade Guild starting out... none of this is reasonable, not anywhere in the game currently.
The flat fees are for rent. Which would actually be variable depending on the size of the guild, not to exceed 500k.
And you say it would be awful.
How awful would it be compared to what is now? Indeed it would be awful for some because over the long term you're going to have to lower prices to sell and would ensure every market has enough competition instead of uhh 4 or 5 of the same Guilds doing the same thing every week. In 'their' same premium location. Edited by Nagastani on April 5, 2021 1:19PM0 -
xilfxlegion✭✭✭✭✭there is nothing listed at any guild trader than you cannot farm for yourself. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 5, 2021 1:33PM1 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭Competition meaning... as it is right now, people are competing over the bid. If you win the bid then that... that means you can do what you want. Which, in a way I can kind of understand that because the bids are astronomically expensive anyways.
What I'm saying is, the system needs to be reformed to shift the energy away from the bid and make it so that the focus is on what value the Guild itself provides. The vendor should distinguish itself amongst it's peers by its value and not by it's bid being higher than everyone else, especially Guilds who themselves have value yet cannot compete with the bid.
And yes, even bids in premium/non-premium places which should be expanded to allow for increased pressure from competition at all of these locations.Edited by Nagastani on April 5, 2021 1:28PM0 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.
The bidding mechanic is easily largest gold sink and fierce competition ensures as much gold gets flushed down the toilet as possible each week. Trader bids easily flush hundreds of millions of gold out of the economy every week. Getting rid of it would lead to crazy hyoerinflation
It makes no sense for a new or small trade guild to get a premium spot. Those spots are considered premium only because people know the guilds there have had dedicated teams working for years building a competitive guild store. If those locations were suddenly filled with new guilds with far below average stores then people wouldn't go there to shop anyway.
New guilds start at smaller locations and grow from there. Getting a new guild off the ground is going to require a capital investment and a lot of dedication.
People think that large trade guilds only stay afloat because they're too big to fail which is completely wrong. They have a team of people putting in hours of work every week to raise money for the bid because taxes alone aren't even close to enough to afford the bid. They organize events, raffles, auctions, etc every single week and have done so for many years.
Who are you or I to decide that?
And what is a premium spot? That could all change with a new system and that is the idea here.
Then get a trader at a reasonable price in a more reasonable location? If you dont care about a premium spot than this is a non issue. If you want a premium spot then you have to put forth the effort and make good decisions to get there. You aren't going to get what others have put literal years of effort into maintaining overnight. The current bid system is actually fantastic at countering inflation and is self regulating. The more gold that is flowing around the higher the bids go and the more gold that gets pumped out. Flat fees that anyone can afford is an awful system in comparison that will cause long term problems
Reasonable according to whom? None of it is reasonable anywhere. Perhaps for you, perhaps for some Guilds it might considered reasonable. For a new Trade Guild starting out... none of this is reasonable, not anywhere in the game currently.
The flat fees are for rent. Which would actually be variable depending on the size of the guild, not to exceed 500k.
And you say it would be awful.
How awful would it be compared to what is now? Indeed it would be awful for some because over the long term you're going to have to lower prices to sell and would ensure every market has enough competition instead of uhh 4 or 5 of the same Guilds doing the same thing every week. In 'their' same premium location.
You seem to have this backwards. Those guilds are what make the spot premium, not the other way around lol. The guilds are the premium. If you replaced every trader in Mourn with random new guilds with bad stores then it wouldn't be a premium spot and people wouldn't go there to shop like they do now. If you want your guild to succeed, you need to build up a pool of good traders who will fill the trader with desirable items other players want. This takes time and years of dedication which is what others have done and continue to do. You aren't going to get what others have put years of effort into doing just because you want it. You have to put that effort in too.3 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Competition meaning... as it is right now, people are competing over the bid. If you win the bid then that... that means you can do what you want. Which, in a way I can kind of understand that because the bids are astronomically expensive anyways.
What I'm saying is, the system needs to be reformed to shift the energy away from the bid and make it so that the focus is on what value the Guild itself provides. The vendor should distinguish itself amongst it's peers by its value and not by it's bid being higher than everyone else, especially Guilds who themselves have value yet cannot compete with the bid.
And yes, even bids in premium/non-premium places which should be expanded to allow for increased pressure from competition at all of these locations.
The bids are NOT "astronomically high". They just appear like this because they used to be ridiculously low for YEARS due to "agreements" behind the curtains among trading guilds. Multibidding made all this obsolote and transformed the bidding market into a true market responding to supply and demand.
Heavy competition among trading guilds is a very good thing for ALL players because it gets everyone rid of small guilds with no or too few listing at prices set entirely out of the blue.
1 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.
The bidding mechanic is easily largest gold sink and fierce competition ensures as much gold gets flushed down the toilet as possible each week. Trader bids easily flush hundreds of millions of gold out of the economy every week. Getting rid of it would lead to crazy hyoerinflation
It makes no sense for a new or small trade guild to get a premium spot. Those spots are considered premium only because people know the guilds there have had dedicated teams working for years building a competitive guild store. If those locations were suddenly filled with new guilds with far below average stores then people wouldn't go there to shop anyway.
New guilds start at smaller locations and grow from there. Getting a new guild off the ground is going to require a capital investment and a lot of dedication.
People think that large trade guilds only stay afloat because they're too big to fail which is completely wrong. They have a team of people putting in hours of work every week to raise money for the bid because taxes alone aren't even close to enough to afford the bid. They organize events, raffles, auctions, etc every single week and have done so for many years.
Who are you or I to decide that?
And what is a premium spot? That could all change with a new system and that is the idea here.
Then get a trader at a reasonable price in a more reasonable location? If you dont care about a premium spot than this is a non issue. If you want a premium spot then you have to put forth the effort and make good decisions to get there. You aren't going to get what others have put literal years of effort into maintaining overnight. The current bid system is actually fantastic at countering inflation and is self regulating. The more gold that is flowing around the higher the bids go and the more gold that gets pumped out. Flat fees that anyone can afford is an awful system in comparison that will cause long term problems
Reasonable according to whom? None of it is reasonable anywhere. Perhaps for you, perhaps for some Guilds it might considered reasonable. For a new Trade Guild starting out... none of this is reasonable, not anywhere in the game currently.
The flat fees are for rent. Which would actually be variable depending on the size of the guild, not to exceed 500k.
And you say it would be awful.
How awful would it be compared to what is now? Indeed it would be awful for some because over the long term you're going to have to lower prices to sell and would ensure every market has enough competition instead of uhh 4 or 5 of the same Guilds doing the same thing every week. In 'their' same premium location.
You seem to have this backwards. Those guilds are what make the spot premium, not the other way around lol. The guilds are the premium. If you replaced every trader in Mourn with random new guilds with bad stores then it wouldn't be a premium spot and people wouldn't go there to shop like they do now. If you want your guild to succeed, you need to build up a pool of good traders who will fill the trader with desirable items other players want. This takes time and years of dedication which is what others have done and continue to do. You aren't going to get what others have put years of effort into doing just because you want it. You have to put that effort in too.
None of it matters unless I can successfully bid for a public Kiosk. I'm sorry but trade guilds won't last without it.
You know this...0 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Competition meaning... as it is right now, people are competing over the bid. If you win the bid then that... that means you can do what you want. Which, in a way I can kind of understand that because the bids are astronomically expensive anyways.
What I'm saying is, the system needs to be reformed to shift the energy away from the bid and make it so that the focus is on what value the Guild itself provides. The vendor should distinguish itself amongst it's peers by its value and not by it's bid being higher than everyone else, especially Guilds who themselves have value yet cannot compete with the bid.
And yes, even bids in premium/non-premium places which should be expanded to allow for increased pressure from competition at all of these locations.
The bids are NOT "astronomically high". They just appear like this because they used to be ridiculously low for YEARS due to "agreements" behind the curtains among trading guilds. Multibidding made all this obsolote and transformed the bidding market into a true market responding to supply and demand.
Heavy competition among trading guilds is a very good thing for ALL players because it gets everyone rid of small guilds with no or too few listing at prices set entirely out of the blue.
Ok I agree. But there can be no 'heavy competition' between the same 4 or 5 big Guilds. Nothing will ever change.
Thus, the problems now. But I would also say it's really the bid and the lack of reasonable access to a public Kiosk that gets rid of smaller Guilds, as it did mine. Although in fairness there were other reasons as well. However, without us having a Kiosk and with us not being able to consistently purchase a Kiosk I could no longer justify continuing to charge for dues and everyone split in favor of larger guilds due to my guild having lack of access to the public market. No matter how much time or energy I put into it, wouldn't matter because I could never outbid the bankers.
That is how it is and if you're talking from the top of the latter you will not understand the things some of us have/had to deal with coming from the bottom of the same.Edited by Nagastani on April 5, 2021 1:45PM0 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Competition meaning... as it is right now, people are competing over the bid. If you win the bid then that... that means you can do what you want. Which, in a way I can kind of understand that because the bids are astronomically expensive anyways.
What I'm saying is, the system needs to be reformed to shift the energy away from the bid and make it so that the focus is on what value the Guild itself provides. The vendor should distinguish itself amongst it's peers by its value and not by it's bid being higher than everyone else, especially Guilds who themselves have value yet cannot compete with the bid.
And yes, even bids in premium/non-premium places which should be expanded to allow for increased pressure from competition at all of these locations.
The bids are NOT "astronomically high". They just appear like this because they used to be ridiculously low for YEARS due to "agreements" behind the curtains among trading guilds. Multibidding made all this obsolote and transformed the bidding market into a true market responding to supply and demand.
Heavy competition among trading guilds is a very good thing for ALL players because it gets everyone rid of small guilds with no or too few listing at prices set entirely out of the blue.
Not really no. I've never been an officer in a major trading guild, buForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.
The bidding mechanic is easily largest gold sink and fierce competition ensures as much gold gets flushed down the toilet as possible each week. Trader bids easily flush hundreds of millions of gold out of the economy every week. Getting rid of it would lead to crazy hyoerinflation
It makes no sense for a new or small trade guild to get a premium spot. Those spots are considered premium only because people know the guilds there have had dedicated teams working for years building a competitive guild store. If those locations were suddenly filled with new guilds with far below average stores then people wouldn't go there to shop anyway.
New guilds start at smaller locations and grow from there. Getting a new guild off the ground is going to require a capital investment and a lot of dedication.
People think that large trade guilds only stay afloat because they're too big to fail which is completely wrong. They have a team of people putting in hours of work every week to raise money for the bid because taxes alone aren't even close to enough to afford the bid. They organize events, raffles, auctions, etc every single week and have done so for many years.
Who are you or I to decide that?
And what is a premium spot? That could all change with a new system and that is the idea here.
Then get a trader at a reasonable price in a more reasonable location? If you dont care about a premium spot than this is a non issue. If you want a premium spot then you have to put forth the effort and make good decisions to get there. You aren't going to get what others have put literal years of effort into maintaining overnight. The current bid system is actually fantastic at countering inflation and is self regulating. The more gold that is flowing around the higher the bids go and the more gold that gets pumped out. Flat fees that anyone can afford is an awful system in comparison that will cause long term problems
Reasonable according to whom? None of it is reasonable anywhere. Perhaps for you, perhaps for some Guilds it might considered reasonable. For a new Trade Guild starting out... none of this is reasonable, not anywhere in the game currently.
The flat fees are for rent. Which would actually be variable depending on the size of the guild, not to exceed 500k.
And you say it would be awful.
How awful would it be compared to what is now? Indeed it would be awful for some because over the long term you're going to have to lower prices to sell and would ensure every market has enough competition instead of uhh 4 or 5 of the same Guilds doing the same thing every week. In 'their' same premium location.
You seem to have this backwards. Those guilds are what make the spot premium, not the other way around lol. The guilds are the premium. If you replaced every trader in Mourn with random new guilds with bad stores then it wouldn't be a premium spot and people wouldn't go there to shop like they do now. If you want your guild to succeed, you need to build up a pool of good traders who will fill the trader with desirable items other players want. This takes time and years of dedication which is what others have done and continue to do. You aren't going to get what others have put years of effort into doing just because you want it. You have to put that effort in too.
None of it matters unless I can successfully bid for a public Kiosk. I'm sorry but trade guilds won't last without it.
You know this...
.....what? Get a cheaper trader and work your way up. What you seem to want is to put no effort in and still get all the benefits because new guild good, year after year of effort means nothing and bad. This doesn't even work though because if you remove all the good traders from a location then you lose all the traffic. People go to these locations because they know the traders there are stacked. If Mourn was filled with traders with 50 members selling 3 potatos then absolutely nobody would go there to shop anymore. The system you propose makes zero sense and is actually extraordinarily harmful to the economy of the game. There are plenty of reasonably priced traders in the game, start at one of them. You aren't going to go from 0 to the best overnight. It makes absolutely zero sense.7 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Competition meaning... as it is right now, people are competing over the bid. If you win the bid then that... that means you can do what you want. Which, in a way I can kind of understand that because the bids are astronomically expensive anyways.
What I'm saying is, the system needs to be reformed to shift the energy away from the bid and make it so that the focus is on what value the Guild itself provides. The vendor should distinguish itself amongst it's peers by its value and not by it's bid being higher than everyone else, especially Guilds who themselves have value yet cannot compete with the bid.
And yes, even bids in premium/non-premium places which should be expanded to allow for increased pressure from competition at all of these locations.
The bids are NOT "astronomically high". They just appear like this because they used to be ridiculously low for YEARS due to "agreements" behind the curtains among trading guilds. Multibidding made all this obsolote and transformed the bidding market into a true market responding to supply and demand.
Heavy competition among trading guilds is a very good thing for ALL players because it gets everyone rid of small guilds with no or too few listing at prices set entirely out of the blue.
Not really no. I've never been an officer in a major trading guild, buForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.
The bidding mechanic is easily largest gold sink and fierce competition ensures as much gold gets flushed down the toilet as possible each week. Trader bids easily flush hundreds of millions of gold out of the economy every week. Getting rid of it would lead to crazy hyoerinflation
It makes no sense for a new or small trade guild to get a premium spot. Those spots are considered premium only because people know the guilds there have had dedicated teams working for years building a competitive guild store. If those locations were suddenly filled with new guilds with far below average stores then people wouldn't go there to shop anyway.
New guilds start at smaller locations and grow from there. Getting a new guild off the ground is going to require a capital investment and a lot of dedication.
People think that large trade guilds only stay afloat because they're too big to fail which is completely wrong. They have a team of people putting in hours of work every week to raise money for the bid because taxes alone aren't even close to enough to afford the bid. They organize events, raffles, auctions, etc every single week and have done so for many years.
Who are you or I to decide that?
And what is a premium spot? That could all change with a new system and that is the idea here.
Then get a trader at a reasonable price in a more reasonable location? If you dont care about a premium spot than this is a non issue. If you want a premium spot then you have to put forth the effort and make good decisions to get there. You aren't going to get what others have put literal years of effort into maintaining overnight. The current bid system is actually fantastic at countering inflation and is self regulating. The more gold that is flowing around the higher the bids go and the more gold that gets pumped out. Flat fees that anyone can afford is an awful system in comparison that will cause long term problems
Reasonable according to whom? None of it is reasonable anywhere. Perhaps for you, perhaps for some Guilds it might considered reasonable. For a new Trade Guild starting out... none of this is reasonable, not anywhere in the game currently.
The flat fees are for rent. Which would actually be variable depending on the size of the guild, not to exceed 500k.
And you say it would be awful.
How awful would it be compared to what is now? Indeed it would be awful for some because over the long term you're going to have to lower prices to sell and would ensure every market has enough competition instead of uhh 4 or 5 of the same Guilds doing the same thing every week. In 'their' same premium location.
You seem to have this backwards. Those guilds are what make the spot premium, not the other way around lol. The guilds are the premium. If you replaced every trader in Mourn with random new guilds with bad stores then it wouldn't be a premium spot and people wouldn't go there to shop like they do now. If you want your guild to succeed, you need to build up a pool of good traders who will fill the trader with desirable items other players want. This takes time and years of dedication which is what others have done and continue to do. You aren't going to get what others have put years of effort into doing just because you want it. You have to put that effort in too.
None of it matters unless I can successfully bid for a public Kiosk. I'm sorry but trade guilds won't last without it.
You know this...
.....what? Get a cheaper trader and work your way up. What you seem to want is to put no effort in and still get all the benefits because new guild good, year after year of effort means nothing and bad. This doesn't even work though because if you remove all the good traders from a location then you lose all the traffic. People go to these locations because they know the traders there are stacked. If Mourn was filled with traders with 50 members selling 3 potatos then absolutely nobody would go there to shop anymore. The system you propose makes zero sense and is actually extraordinarily harmful to the economy of the game. There are plenty of reasonably priced traders in the game, start at one of them. You aren't going to go from 0 to the best overnight. It makes absolutely zero sense.
No more harmful than super-inflated bids artificially blocking new Vendors from competing now. It's no different.
You guys act like I'm trying to put controls on things, I'm trying to take them off the thing. Who cares how many Vendors are in a given place. Statistically speaking all of them will not be successful, anyways. There's no need to concern ourselves with that.
The market will work itself out if people would let it. But it can't do that without healthy competition and you will never have that unless there is opportunity for everyone to have access to the market. Regardless of location as "premium" locations could change in time.
Edited by Nagastani on April 5, 2021 2:00PM0 -
Inaya✭✭✭✭✭
✭A new trade guild is just like any new small business. It takes time to grow before you can compete with larger more established businesses. "Management" must learn how and be as dedicated as management of the larger businesses. The better the management team the better growth. Expecting a new trading guild to compete with an established one is just silly.
Similarly, accumulating gold is a learning process. When I first started all my gold came from quests, writs and selling to vendors. After a few months I had accumalated almost a million then joined a small trading guild. It took MONTHS for me to learn how to sell, what to sell and when. Almost 2 years later, I'm in one of the larger trading guilds, established in Grahtwood, and sell 500k to a little over a million a week. I do the occasional flip but mostly I farm (getting lucky on a pattern once in awhile..but I still always use the first one I get no matter the price at the time and only sell dupes) and decon. Something anyone can do. I'm not rich with just a little over 18 million but it allows me to drop a million at the lux vendor, furnish my housing by supporting trade guilds and other players with my furnishing purchases and I will NEVER pay more than something is worth TO ME! I have gold because like in real life I do not live beyond my means.
Asking for pricing to be regulated by an outside entity will NOT solve a problem that doesn't exist.
No one is talking about price regulation we're talking about rent regulation. You pay a reasonable fee to rent the hall and then it's up to you to dance in it.
The Guild can establish whatever prices it wants and shall be compared to it's peers.
But the hall should be rentable by everyone and not owned by a few, which is exactly the problem that exists now and has existed for years.
The traders ARE available to every trade guild and none are "owned". Trade guilds must grow into the prime trade spots just like the guilds who are in them did! You seem to propose that new guilds should be on equal footing with established guilds who in most cases have put in YEARS of dedication and work to get there. You want everything for nothing!Edited by Inaya on April 5, 2021 2:02PM2 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Competition meaning... as it is right now, people are competing over the bid. If you win the bid then that... that means you can do what you want. Which, in a way I can kind of understand that because the bids are astronomically expensive anyways.
What I'm saying is, the system needs to be reformed to shift the energy away from the bid and make it so that the focus is on what value the Guild itself provides. The vendor should distinguish itself amongst it's peers by its value and not by it's bid being higher than everyone else, especially Guilds who themselves have value yet cannot compete with the bid.
And yes, even bids in premium/non-premium places which should be expanded to allow for increased pressure from competition at all of these locations.
The bids are NOT "astronomically high". They just appear like this because they used to be ridiculously low for YEARS due to "agreements" behind the curtains among trading guilds. Multibidding made all this obsolote and transformed the bidding market into a true market responding to supply and demand.
Heavy competition among trading guilds is a very good thing for ALL players because it gets everyone rid of small guilds with no or too few listing at prices set entirely out of the blue.
Not really no. I've never been an officer in a major trading guild, buForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.
The bidding mechanic is easily largest gold sink and fierce competition ensures as much gold gets flushed down the toilet as possible each week. Trader bids easily flush hundreds of millions of gold out of the economy every week. Getting rid of it would lead to crazy hyoerinflation
It makes no sense for a new or small trade guild to get a premium spot. Those spots are considered premium only because people know the guilds there have had dedicated teams working for years building a competitive guild store. If those locations were suddenly filled with new guilds with far below average stores then people wouldn't go there to shop anyway.
New guilds start at smaller locations and grow from there. Getting a new guild off the ground is going to require a capital investment and a lot of dedication.
People think that large trade guilds only stay afloat because they're too big to fail which is completely wrong. They have a team of people putting in hours of work every week to raise money for the bid because taxes alone aren't even close to enough to afford the bid. They organize events, raffles, auctions, etc every single week and have done so for many years.
Who are you or I to decide that?
And what is a premium spot? That could all change with a new system and that is the idea here.
Then get a trader at a reasonable price in a more reasonable location? If you dont care about a premium spot than this is a non issue. If you want a premium spot then you have to put forth the effort and make good decisions to get there. You aren't going to get what others have put literal years of effort into maintaining overnight. The current bid system is actually fantastic at countering inflation and is self regulating. The more gold that is flowing around the higher the bids go and the more gold that gets pumped out. Flat fees that anyone can afford is an awful system in comparison that will cause long term problems
Reasonable according to whom? None of it is reasonable anywhere. Perhaps for you, perhaps for some Guilds it might considered reasonable. For a new Trade Guild starting out... none of this is reasonable, not anywhere in the game currently.
The flat fees are for rent. Which would actually be variable depending on the size of the guild, not to exceed 500k.
And you say it would be awful.
How awful would it be compared to what is now? Indeed it would be awful for some because over the long term you're going to have to lower prices to sell and would ensure every market has enough competition instead of uhh 4 or 5 of the same Guilds doing the same thing every week. In 'their' same premium location.
You seem to have this backwards. Those guilds are what make the spot premium, not the other way around lol. The guilds are the premium. If you replaced every trader in Mourn with random new guilds with bad stores then it wouldn't be a premium spot and people wouldn't go there to shop like they do now. If you want your guild to succeed, you need to build up a pool of good traders who will fill the trader with desirable items other players want. This takes time and years of dedication which is what others have done and continue to do. You aren't going to get what others have put years of effort into doing just because you want it. You have to put that effort in too.
None of it matters unless I can successfully bid for a public Kiosk. I'm sorry but trade guilds won't last without it.
You know this...
.....what? Get a cheaper trader and work your way up. What you seem to want is to put no effort in and still get all the benefits because new guild good, year after year of effort means nothing and bad. This doesn't even work though because if you remove all the good traders from a location then you lose all the traffic. People go to these locations because they know the traders there are stacked. If Mourn was filled with traders with 50 members selling 3 potatos then absolutely nobody would go there to shop anymore. The system you propose makes zero sense and is actually extraordinarily harmful to the economy of the game. There are plenty of reasonably priced traders in the game, start at one of them. You aren't going to go from 0 to the best overnight. It makes absolutely zero sense.
No more harmful than super-inflated bids artificially blocking new Vendors from competing now. It's no different.
You guys act like I'm trying to put controls on things, I'm trying to take them off the thing. Who cares how many Vendors are in a given place. Statistically speaking all of them will not be successful, anyways. There's no need to concern ourselves with that.
The market will work itself out if people would let it. But it can't do that without healthy competition.
Yes, grossly more harmful than inflated trader bids. Inflated trader bids are actually fantastic for the economy as they are the single biggest gold sink in the game and by and large are mostly the richest players throwing loads of their gold into the void. This preserves the purchasing power of people with not as much gold who aren't throwing away nearly as much even proportionately.Edited by Eedat on April 5, 2021 2:03PM5 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭A new trade guild is just like any new small business. It takes time to grow before you can compete with larger more established businesses. "Management" must learn how and be as dedicated as management of the larger businesses. The better the management team the better growth. Expecting a new trading guild to compete with an established one is just silly.
Similarly, accumulating gold is a learning process. When I first started all my gold came from quests, writs and selling to vendors. After a few months I had accumalated almost a million then joined a small trading guild. It took MONTHS for me to learn how to sell, what to sell and when. Almost 2 years later, I'm in one of the larger trading guilds, established in Grahtwood, and sell 500k to a little over a million a week. I do the occasional flip but mostly I farm (getting lucky on a pattern once in awhile..but I still always use the first one I get no matter the price at the time and only sell dupes) and decon. Something anyone can do. I'm not rich with just a little over 18 million but it allows me to drop a million at the lux vendor, furnish my housing by supporting trade guilds and other players with my furnishing purchases and I will NEVER pay more than something is worth TO ME! I have gold because like in real life I do not live beyond my means.
Asking for pricing to be regulated by an outside entity will NOT solve a problem that doesn't exist.
No one is talking about price regulation we're talking about rent regulation. You pay a reasonable fee to rent the hall and then it's up to you to dance in it.
The Guild can establish whatever prices it wants and shall be compared to it's peers.
But the hall should be rentable by everyone and not owned by a few, which is exactly the problem that exists now and has existed for years.
The traders ARE available to every trade guild and none are "owned". Trade guild must grow into the prime trade spots just like the guilds who are in them did!
How do you figure? So tell me where your spot is, my Trade Guild has lots to sell and we need access to the market. We only have 500k but lots of things to sell. We just don't have uhh between 2 and 20 million to purchase your bid
So I guess my Guild is done because we just don't make enough gold and we don't make enough because we can't sell our goods and we can't sell our goods because we can't bid on a Kiosk and we can't bid on a Kiosk because the price is so high only a few Guilds can afford it and the cycle continues.
I'm sorry but that is not healthy competition. And the bid precludes every Guild having access to a Vendor.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 5, 2021 3:05PM1 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭A new trade guild is just like any new small business. It takes time to grow before you can compete with larger more established businesses. "Management" must learn how and be as dedicated as management of the larger businesses. The better the management team the better growth. Expecting a new trading guild to compete with an established one is just silly.
Similarly, accumulating gold is a learning process. When I first started all my gold came from quests, writs and selling to vendors. After a few months I had accumalated almost a million then joined a small trading guild. It took MONTHS for me to learn how to sell, what to sell and when. Almost 2 years later, I'm in one of the larger trading guilds, established in Grahtwood, and sell 500k to a little over a million a week. I do the occasional flip but mostly I farm (getting lucky on a pattern once in awhile..but I still always use the first one I get no matter the price at the time and only sell dupes) and decon. Something anyone can do. I'm not rich with just a little over 18 million but it allows me to drop a million at the lux vendor, furnish my housing by supporting trade guilds and other players with my furnishing purchases and I will NEVER pay more than something is worth TO ME! I have gold because like in real life I do not live beyond my means.
Asking for pricing to be regulated by an outside entity will NOT solve a problem that doesn't exist.
No one is talking about price regulation we're talking about rent regulation. You pay a reasonable fee to rent the hall and then it's up to you to dance in it.
The Guild can establish whatever prices it wants and shall be compared to it's peers.
But the hall should be rentable by everyone and not owned by a few, which is exactly the problem that exists now and has existed for years.
The traders ARE available to every trade guild and none are "owned". Trade guilds must grow into the prime trade spots just like the guilds who are in them did! You seem to propose that new guilds should be on equal footing with established guilds who in most cases have put in YEARS of dedication and work to get there. You want everything for nothing!
No they're not specifically owned but may as well be. When only they can pay for the location, the shoe fits.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 5, 2021 3:05PM2 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭A new trade guild is just like any new small business. It takes time to grow before you can compete with larger more established businesses. "Management" must learn how and be as dedicated as management of the larger businesses. The better the management team the better growth. Expecting a new trading guild to compete with an established one is just silly.
Similarly, accumulating gold is a learning process. When I first started all my gold came from quests, writs and selling to vendors. After a few months I had accumalated almost a million then joined a small trading guild. It took MONTHS for me to learn how to sell, what to sell and when. Almost 2 years later, I'm in one of the larger trading guilds, established in Grahtwood, and sell 500k to a little over a million a week. I do the occasional flip but mostly I farm (getting lucky on a pattern once in awhile..but I still always use the first one I get no matter the price at the time and only sell dupes) and decon. Something anyone can do. I'm not rich with just a little over 18 million but it allows me to drop a million at the lux vendor, furnish my housing by supporting trade guilds and other players with my furnishing purchases and I will NEVER pay more than something is worth TO ME! I have gold because like in real life I do not live beyond my means.
Asking for pricing to be regulated by an outside entity will NOT solve a problem that doesn't exist.
No one is talking about price regulation we're talking about rent regulation. You pay a reasonable fee to rent the hall and then it's up to you to dance in it.
The Guild can establish whatever prices it wants and shall be compared to it's peers.
But the hall should be rentable by everyone and not owned by a few, which is exactly the problem that exists now and has existed for years.
The traders ARE available to every trade guild and none are "owned". Trade guild must grow into the prime trade spots just like the guilds who are in them did!
How do you figure? So tell me where your spot is, my Trade Guild has lots to sell and we need access to the market. We only have 500k but lots of things to sell. We just don't have uhh between 2 and 20 million to purchase your bid
So I guess my Guild is done because we just don't make enough gold and we don't make enough because we can't sell our goods and we can sell our goods because we can't bid on a Kiosk and we can't bid on a Kiosk because the price is so high only a few Guilds can afford it and the cycle continues.
I'm sorry but that is not healthy competition. And the bid precludes every Guild having access to a Vendor.
[snip]
if you had lots to sell as you claim you could make a lot of gold. if you are not making a lot of gold it is because you are actually not selling. my guess is because you are trying to sell too high.
y'all goy it in your hands to break the cycle.
Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on April 5, 2021 3:06PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)3 -
Nagastani✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Competition meaning... as it is right now, people are competing over the bid. If you win the bid then that... that means you can do what you want. Which, in a way I can kind of understand that because the bids are astronomically expensive anyways.
What I'm saying is, the system needs to be reformed to shift the energy away from the bid and make it so that the focus is on what value the Guild itself provides. The vendor should distinguish itself amongst it's peers by its value and not by it's bid being higher than everyone else, especially Guilds who themselves have value yet cannot compete with the bid.
And yes, even bids in premium/non-premium places which should be expanded to allow for increased pressure from competition at all of these locations.
The bids are NOT "astronomically high". They just appear like this because they used to be ridiculously low for YEARS due to "agreements" behind the curtains among trading guilds. Multibidding made all this obsolote and transformed the bidding market into a true market responding to supply and demand.
Heavy competition among trading guilds is a very good thing for ALL players because it gets everyone rid of small guilds with no or too few listing at prices set entirely out of the blue.
Not really no. I've never been an officer in a major trading guild, buForzaRammer wrote: »Unlike people who claim it is just 'supply and demand shift', I was right all along
I understand zos want to sell crown houses and stuff.
Here is my original solution, lower all gold gain.
Remove treasure in antique, remove daily quest gold.
Half the pvp campaign reward, half the trial plunder.
And here was another person's suggestion.
Remove transmute crystal for reconstruction, change it to gold.
Its too late for all that. ZOS isn't going to do anything of the sort anyways.
You want to fix it? I can tell you how, but first we need to start with the problem.
The problem is the Guilds are too big to fail and can charge whatever they want... and they sometimes do. And by this time in the game's lifespan we have our major trade guilds who are the players in the economy and they have no real competition. That's the problem.
The solution is to go back and rework how Kiosk Vendors are setup. Because the price to 'rent' a weekly vendor is out of sight and new Trade Guilds can't compete for space, thus only the big really profitable guilds can only compete amongst themselves.
We need more competition, the vendors should be reworked to abolish a weekly bid and set this up to encourage growth of new Trade Guilds with new ideas who don't need to bring in billions of gold every week in order to compete.
Until this changes 'they' are in charge and will continue to be and there is nothing anyone can do about it except farm your own mats.
Trading works like anything else in the game. The more time you put in the better the results. Players doing trials don't jump right into hard mode no death speed runs on vet. They join a progression guild and learn what is expected of them. Same exact thing with trading. The very top trading guilds often have room for new members because not everybody is able to trade at a level that makes being in a top tier trade guild worth while. Good news is there are more than 200 vendor spots in the game and many of those are taken by guilds that have no requirements to join. It is a myth that you can't make a decent amount of gold at these traders. I am on PC though so Tamriel Trade Centre helps some with the out of the way traders getting traffic.
I would like to see all the traders that are in a location alone get one more trader added to give more incentive to visit those places. If we put another trader in the thieves dens and beside wayshrines that have nearby traders that I think would help a lot.
A new trade guild is going to struggle just like any other specialty guild will struggle. For many players in those top tier guilds that is their end game. They send most their time in game concentrating on selling. Social guilds can and do get traders so I know if a new trade guild is persistent they can get a spot most weeks.
The big trade guilds have to compete with every other guild out there that has a trader. They have the advantage of being in a high traffic area but that doesn't mean they are not competing with the little guys. Outside of the high traffic areas it is a good idea to list most items a bit below what they are selling for in the high traffic spots but rare items will sell for same price whatever the location.
I hear what you're saying but it seems like it really doesn't.
No Trade Guild of any kind gets a Vendor unless they can compete on the weekly bid, which even for those little outlaw holes in the wall is outrageously priced and fiercely fought over. No Kiosk equals no Trade Guild in the long run and looks bad for them not to have one. Big Guilds are fine, hey I'm not against anyone making money. However, they have the capital, the resources, the loyalties of folks so they can make the money to buy the bid, which even for them has become insanely expensive.
See what I'm saying? The weekly bidding mechanic is terrible for everyone. And a new Guild, unless it's being financed by one of the big Guilds, which they have no real reason to expand, cannot buy a Kiosk and thus they cannot grow naturally. ESO economy is like a nation where the big banks are in charge and they have money, they are powerful, but the system is dying because there is no room for new growth outside of them, no room for real competition and thus your prices on everything are out of sight.
Comes as no surprise to me.
The bidding mechanic is easily largest gold sink and fierce competition ensures as much gold gets flushed down the toilet as possible each week. Trader bids easily flush hundreds of millions of gold out of the economy every week. Getting rid of it would lead to crazy hyoerinflation
It makes no sense for a new or small trade guild to get a premium spot. Those spots are considered premium only because people know the guilds there have had dedicated teams working for years building a competitive guild store. If those locations were suddenly filled with new guilds with far below average stores then people wouldn't go there to shop anyway.
New guilds start at smaller locations and grow from there. Getting a new guild off the ground is going to require a capital investment and a lot of dedication.
People think that large trade guilds only stay afloat because they're too big to fail which is completely wrong. They have a team of people putting in hours of work every week to raise money for the bid because taxes alone aren't even close to enough to afford the bid. They organize events, raffles, auctions, etc every single week and have done so for many years.
Who are you or I to decide that?
And what is a premium spot? That could all change with a new system and that is the idea here.
Then get a trader at a reasonable price in a more reasonable location? If you dont care about a premium spot than this is a non issue. If you want a premium spot then you have to put forth the effort and make good decisions to get there. You aren't going to get what others have put literal years of effort into maintaining overnight. The current bid system is actually fantastic at countering inflation and is self regulating. The more gold that is flowing around the higher the bids go and the more gold that gets pumped out. Flat fees that anyone can afford is an awful system in comparison that will cause long term problems
Reasonable according to whom? None of it is reasonable anywhere. Perhaps for you, perhaps for some Guilds it might considered reasonable. For a new Trade Guild starting out... none of this is reasonable, not anywhere in the game currently.
The flat fees are for rent. Which would actually be variable depending on the size of the guild, not to exceed 500k.
And you say it would be awful.
How awful would it be compared to what is now? Indeed it would be awful for some because over the long term you're going to have to lower prices to sell and would ensure every market has enough competition instead of uhh 4 or 5 of the same Guilds doing the same thing every week. In 'their' same premium location.
You seem to have this backwards. Those guilds are what make the spot premium, not the other way around lol. The guilds are the premium. If you replaced every trader in Mourn with random new guilds with bad stores then it wouldn't be a premium spot and people wouldn't go there to shop like they do now. If you want your guild to succeed, you need to build up a pool of good traders who will fill the trader with desirable items other players want. This takes time and years of dedication which is what others have done and continue to do. You aren't going to get what others have put years of effort into doing just because you want it. You have to put that effort in too.
None of it matters unless I can successfully bid for a public Kiosk. I'm sorry but trade guilds won't last without it.
You know this...
.....what? Get a cheaper trader and work your way up. What you seem to want is to put no effort in and still get all the benefits because new guild good, year after year of effort means nothing and bad. This doesn't even work though because if you remove all the good traders from a location then you lose all the traffic. People go to these locations because they know the traders there are stacked. If Mourn was filled with traders with 50 members selling 3 potatos then absolutely nobody would go there to shop anymore. The system you propose makes zero sense and is actually extraordinarily harmful to the economy of the game. There are plenty of reasonably priced traders in the game, start at one of them. You aren't going to go from 0 to the best overnight. It makes absolutely zero sense.
No more harmful than super-inflated bids artificially blocking new Vendors from competing now. It's no different.
You guys act like I'm trying to put controls on things, I'm trying to take them off the thing. Who cares how many Vendors are in a given place. Statistically speaking all of them will not be successful, anyways. There's no need to concern ourselves with that.
The market will work itself out if people would let it. But it can't do that without healthy competition.
Yes, grossly more harmful than inflated trader bids. Inflated trader bids are actually fantastic for the economy as they are the single biggest gold sink in the game and by and large are mostly the richest players throwing loads of their gold into the void. This preserves the purchasing power of people with not as much gold who aren't throwing away nearly as much even proportionately.
Yeah except it doesn't work that way.
And listen I'm not about telling people how to spend their money.
But what if that's not working anymore. There is now a direct correlation between ultra high bids and an ultra inflated market.
This is due to lack of competition and the same people, the same vendor spot, week after week, charging whatever they want and we all have to either pay it or go farm it.
It's so boring and so depressing that simple every day items are now completely unaffordable for new players.1
This discussion has been closed.