What is the right counter to dizzying swing?

marshill88
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Trying PVP for the first time. I've been doing a couple dozen BG's and overall its pretty fun.
I always look at my death report to see what's killing me. By far the most common reason I die is: DIzzying Swing. It far and above exceeds any other way I end up dying.
I have a "PURGE" ability on my hotbar but the problem is that the PURGE only works instantly, and offers no "protection for X" seconds. Even if PURGE worked for the next 3 seconds, it wouldn't be so bad. But what is the use of the PURGE command when i'm almost immediately on the ground. What is the right way to counter this? Thanks guys.
  • Grandchamp1989
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    Would blocking it work?
  • marshill88
    marshill88
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    does block work when it hits you from behind, to the side, right or left? I rarely see the guy coming at me head on.
    Edited by marshill88 on April 3, 2021 10:21AM
  • Seraphayel
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    Roll dodge and run. There’s no real counter to it, you can block one or two, but you’re opponent can simply spam it more often than you can defend against it.

    The usual is Dizzying Swing > Dizzying Swing > Dizzying Swing > Executioner > Executioner = (almost) dead. This happens all within 5 seconds. If you don’t get away, you’re going to die.
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  • marshill88
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Roll dodge and run. There’s no real counter to it, you can block one or two, but you’re opponent can simply spam it more often than you can defend against it.

    The usual is Dizzying Swing > Dizzying Swing > Dizzying Swing > Executioner > Executioner = (almost) dead. This happens all within 5 seconds. If you don’t get away, you’re going to die.

    indeed...dizzying swing spam then executioner. if i don't die from the executioner then someone else got me because I was flat on the ground for 1000 seconds. Well, 2 seconds, but in PVP it might as well be 1000 seconds.

    PVP seems balanced on the whole, I die from a variety of different ways, but if I had one concern it was that this Dizzying Swing thing is really more powerful in PVP than anything else I ecounter. It would be really nice if the PURGE abilities on classes had a 2 or even 3 second duration. Makes sense concerning Dizzying Swing puts me on the ground unable to do ANYTHING for that amount of time. I'd like to do a purge and be immune to negative effects (but not damage) for 3 seconds. That way, Dizzying Swing will still hit me for damage, but it wont impose the effect. Right now, my feeling is the purge abilities are only a little bit useful in PVP unless I'm using them to help people in my group.
    Edited by marshill88 on April 3, 2021 10:43AM
  • Bradyfjord
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    Use immovable potions to counter knockbacks and the like. Movement in this game is king, and that's what makes the servers' performance so important. A split second of lag can kill.
  • RealLoveBVB
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    marshill88 wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Roll dodge and run. There’s no real counter to it, you can block one or two, but you’re opponent can simply spam it more often than you can defend against it.

    The usual is Dizzying Swing > Dizzying Swing > Dizzying Swing > Executioner > Executioner = (almost) dead. This happens all within 5 seconds. If you don’t get away, you’re going to die.

    indeed...dizzying swing spam then executioner. if i don't die from the executioner then someone else got me because I was flat on the ground for 1000 seconds. Well, 2 seconds, but in PVP it might as well be 1000 seconds.

    If you are new, then you probably don't know yet, that you can "break free" from stuns and such. While stunned, hold right mouse button and click the left one to get out of that situation.

    PvP is also very fast-paced, so it's super difficult to get into it as beginner. But you will get better the more time you play it ;)

  • Vlad9425
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    Roll dodge.
  • orion_1981usub17_ESO
    orion_1981usub17_ESO
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    Do not back up, which feels natural but is stupid. If your backpedalling, you lose as it makes you even easier to target. Step forward thru them, continue to do this as they try to line up the swing. It takes practice but dswing needs a target at your cursor, remove yourself from their screen. Also, dont fight melee against heavy melee unless you are also heavy melee. Also also, use voice coms and ask your friends to stun them or heal you.
  • OlumoGarbag
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    Do not back up, which feels natural but is stupid. If your backpedalling, you lose as it makes you even easier to target. Step forward thru them, continue to do this as they try to line up the swing. It takes practice but dswing needs a target at your cursor, remove yourself from their screen. Also, dont fight melee against heavy melee unless you are also heavy melee. Also also, use voice coms and ask your friends to stun them or heal you.

    This^
    you need to side step them or walk though them dizzy swing is a channel that only works in front of you in a 5m cone. If you step outside of that cone the cast will interupt and they enemy has to channel again.

    Before they reduced the cast time of dizzy swing + snares were more potent it was actually pretty hard to hit consistent dizzy swings.
    Now dizzy swing has a timeable off global cooldown stun and a potent snare + the shorter cast time. Its definetly too strong compared to class spammables.
    class representative for the working class, non-cp, bwb and Trolling
  • orion_1981usub17_ESO
    orion_1981usub17_ESO
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    It's literally the biggest weapon in game hitting you. It's not too strong... folks are too weak to be in front of it. And then they complain that they died like they were suppose to. If dswing didn't kill anyone, what good would it be? But there are ways around it to fight the more mediocre warriors who crutch badly one it. If you're fighting pros, they already immobilized or stunned you. This means you need heals, shields and likely a friend. If you die its because you made a mistake... always. Don't fight alone, don't get suckered in, and don't wear paper in melee fights with out a shield up...
  • Ryuvain
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    It's meta for a reason. So that's what you see in PvP 90% of the time, stam dizzy executioner spammers. Everyone uses it so no one wants a nerf to it.

    Meanwhile mag is stuck with passives that only work with staff skills...

    Pvp takes a very long time to even grasp what is going on. Blocking doesn't help much as you lose more stam than they do, and that doesn't even stop their attack or anything.
    Either stun them or teleport away, depending on class. Tbh fights mostly go to whoever strikes first if both are good.
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  • Ratzkifal
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    Ryuvain wrote: »
    It's meta for a reason. So that's what you see in PvP 90% of the time, stam dizzy executioner spammers. Everyone uses it so no one wants a nerf to it.

    Meanwhile mag is stuck with passives that only work with staff skills...

    Pvp takes a very long time to even grasp what is going on. Blocking doesn't help much as you lose more stam than they do, and that doesn't even stop their attack or anything.
    Either stun them or teleport away, depending on class. Tbh fights mostly go to whoever strikes first if both are good.

    The reason it's meta is because most stamina classes don't have a good spammable and neither does dualwield. Dizzying Swing is the only good stamina spammable for most melee pvp builds, because there just aren't any good alternatives. NB and Templar are the only ones you see without because their spammables are just better.
    Dizzying Swing is really not that good, it's just that a lot of people don't know how to avoid it.
    This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.
  • L_Nici
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    D Swing has many counters. Move out of range, Dodgerole, move to close to your enemy, move through your enemy, or just play if it lags then D Swing gets stuck anyway. I still wish for a reliable Stamina Spamable on my Stamsorc, the only reason I still use it, is that there is no alternative.
    Edited by L_Nici on April 3, 2021 1:40PM
    PC|EU
  • CaptainVenom
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    There are some interesting ways to escape this trash stun + burst meta. Here's some ideas:

    Precognition (Ultimate - Psijic Order): Step backwards in time, resetting your Health, Magicka, Stamina, and position to what they were 4 seconds ago. You can cast this ability while you are crowd controlled and it automatically grants you crowd control immunity. Gotta think fast here: if you get stunned, use this ult right away to escape.

    Dauntless Combatant (Craftable Set): when you are affected by a disabling effect, you automatically Break Free for no cost. After using this effect, you become Winded and cannot trigger this effect or others like it for 21 seconds. Craftable in Cyrodiil.

    Slippery (Active Champion Point - Fitness): when you are affected by a disabling effect, you automatically Break Free for no cost. After using this effect, you become Winded and cannot trigger this effect or others like it for 21 seconds. Don't forget to slot it.

    Essence of Immovability (Potion): Become immune to knockback and disabling effects for 8 seconds. (45 second cooldown). Ingredients: Lorkhan's Tears, Columbine + Wormwood. You need to use this before getting stunned as a preemptive measure.

    Edited by CaptainVenom on April 3, 2021 2:09PM
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  • HankTwo
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    The answer to your question depends entirely on your class and build. A medium armor 2h/bow stamblade will have a very different defensive strategy against dizzy than say a destro/snb mag necro. So what class are you playing, what weapons and sets are you using, and what traits do you use?

    One very general tip against dizzy is to keep track of your off balance debuff to prevent getting stunned in a bad situation.
    PC EU
    Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK
  • Seraphayel
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    There’s a reason why Stamina / 2h in PvP is overperforming for more than 2 years now. There’s a reason why 2h Stamden and Stamcro are everywhere, closely followed by other 2h Stamina builds. It’s been this since Elsweyr? Or even before? I don’t remember.
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  • itscompton
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    One of the best damage mitigation options against Dswing is to build your character for movement speed, which will make it much easier to do what others have said: constantly move towards/around/through the opponent so they can't line it up on you.
    To survive when it does hit you make sure you max the CP for break free cost reduction and run with at least 15K stam even on mag toons. If you know you're off balance a well timed block or dodge roll will save you from needing to break the stun in the first place.
  • Mayrael
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    The only thing that was broken about dizzy has been fixed (unbreakable knockback).

    1. Speed. Move quickly and it's almost impossible to use the Dizzy Swing effectively as your opponent must stay in range and have you in their crosshairs at all times.

    2. Roll dodge through enemy. If you're out of sight cast is being disrupted.

    3. Block. Works pretty good against powerful but low frequency attacks.
    Edited by Mayrael on April 3, 2021 3:57PM
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  • WaltherCarraway
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    Magdk

    Speed? nope
    Roll dodge? lol
    Block? lmao

    Even with SnB you will not able to burst high WD && self heal stam character
    Back from my last hiatus. 2021 a new start.
  • ganzaeso
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    This complaint might be my fault. I was leveling a new NB through battle grounds and made over 800 kills before level 50 in just a couple days.

    Dizzying Swing hits quite hard with 35k stam, 4500 weapon damage, and 13k penetration.
    (Math before coffee, except after 3, is not for me)
  • xaraan
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    Distance.

    It's an over-performing skill. Just imagine how bad it was when it had a knock back with every hit, but doing the chunk of damage it does combined with off balance is still strong. And it's also a very conditionally powerful skill based on how good your png is vs your opponent. It's easier to land and dodge when you have better latency vs your opponent (a lot skills can be like this a bit, but due to the cast time, melee range this one is probably the biggest of the bunch). But there is a reason why most run it over any class spammable or weapon spammable. Sure, some class spammables suck, but almost all suck in comparison to dizzy. Honestly they should probably just double the cost of the skill.

    But unless you are a tank build, you really cannot afford to block a spam of dizzy, just occasional swings if someone isn't spamming. But yes, block will work from any direction. If you have a good png vs them, stepping through them as they charge up the attack can be a good defense, but if png is bad, then they may not be where you think they are because of latency. Dodge rolling to add distance and moving away, hopefully you can range attack them. But don't waste so much stam blocking or rolling to where you cannot break free if you get knocked down, that's what they count on, chunking you down in a stun to swap to executioner. But unless you have an overwhelming surge of attack damage to pressure them with or are a NB using cloak, keeping them at a distance is the best way to deal with them. Most of the solutions are temporary (block, dodge, immove pots, etc.) because they will spam it non stop on you until it works if you don't have anything to pressure them back with.
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  • olsborg
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    xaraan wrote: »
    It's an over-performing skill.

    I 100% agree. The range of it, how it always seem to hit. The damage and the built in cc through offbalance... Its just way overtuned in what it does and how it does it.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Seraphayel
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    Another thing why DS is so powerful: Executioner. Is it just me or is that skill super, super fast? It’s a lot faster than other executes in the game, at least from my experience. It activates instantly (?). Compared to that Impale from Nightblades or any other executes just feel super slow.
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  • Kiralyn2000
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    It's literally the biggest weapon in game hitting you. It's not too strong... folks are too weak to be in front of it. .

    Size has no bearing in a level&stat-based game. A Lv100 Dull Butter Knife does more damage than a Lv5 Oil-Tanker-with-a-handle, just because of their stat differences.

    At max level, all combat styles should have roughly the same performance, just with different circumstances that they might be better in.
    edit: which is why balancing pvp in a stat-based RPG with lots of variables (race, class, skills, gear sets, etc) is hard.
    Edited by Kiralyn2000 on April 3, 2021 5:10PM
  • Sleep724
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    What’s the cast time on d-swing, .08 seconds? That can very difficult to react to if you don’t know when it’s coming. But you do know there’s most likely a second one coming to block or dodge. If there’s a lot of flashy action going on around me tho it can make it hard to see too, seems to cause some information overload in my brain and I have a hard time following what’s happening.

    However, with this latest patch, I’ve noticed a possible delay on blocking attacks. Maybe I’m just slow lol but I always seem to be a half second behind in blocking.
  • Nord_Raseri
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    I just block or walk right through them. If you have access to a stun that helps too.
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  • TwinLamps
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    Id say right counters are the following:
    -Time (you cant expect to be able to counter everything on day 1 when you encounter it)
    -Common sense (not being super stubborn to continue with bad habits that make dizzy spam good way to deal with you)
    -Range (dizzy does not have 28 meters of range (anymore))
    -Mobility (dizzy makes attacker more or less root himself for the duration of channel needed to perform this attack, so just move ffs lmoa af)

    Usually, good players just mover trough you, while you try to land a dizzy. Some counter this by moving backwards while they try to spam dizzy, knowing players will attemt to move trough them. It rarely works, but still its similar thing as with trying to land DBoS - just move back a bit while u use this attack.

    Dizzy can be blocked, dodged, interrupted if u fast enough since its channeled ability
    Awake, but at what cost
  • TwinLamps
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    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Another thing why DS is so powerful: Executioner. Is it just me or is that skill super, super fast? It’s a lot faster than other executes in the game, at least from my experience. It activates instantly (?). Compared to that Impale from Nightblades or any other executes just feel super slow.

    What can I say, practice animation canceling.
    Awake, but at what cost
  • marshill88
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    Sleep724 wrote: »
    What’s the cast time on d-swing, .08 seconds? That can very difficult to react to if you don’t know when it’s coming. But you do know there’s most likely a second one coming to block or dodge. If there’s a lot of flashy action going on around me tho it can make it hard to see too, seems to cause some information overload in my brain and I have a hard time following what’s happening.

    However, with this latest patch, I’ve noticed a possible delay on blocking attacks. Maybe I’m just slow lol but I always seem to be a half second behind in blocking.

    this is an issue i guess i need to pay more attention to. once i get "dizzied", I don't always know. If i knew as soon as I was dizzy, I would do an instant purge and prevent the next one from knocking me over. The graphic animation that tells me I'm dizzy is very subtle sometimes and hard to notice.
  • Seraphayel
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    TwinLamps wrote: »
    Seraphayel wrote: »
    Another thing why DS is so powerful: Executioner. Is it just me or is that skill super, super fast? It’s a lot faster than other executes in the game, at least from my experience. It activates instantly (?). Compared to that Impale from Nightblades or any other executes just feel super slow.

    What can I say, practice animation canceling.

    Has absolutely nothing to do with animation canceling in this case. Executioner is just an incredibly fast skill, with or without AC.

    Some counter suggested here are kinda funny:

    - Stun / CC? That’s a counter for everything, not Dizzying Swing

    - Roll dodge? See above

    - Block? Nice try

    Sure, this things work. But if you face and want to kill a good player using 2h, what are your options? DS is super cheap, fast and very powerful. So facetank your enemy and hope his resources drop sooner or you get your burst combo through? Mhm...
    Edited by Seraphayel on April 3, 2021 10:22PM
    PS5
    EU
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    - Khajiit Arcanist -
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