There has been a double XP buff event for the past week and a 2-week one just started today. Assuming any decline in population of Cyrodiil is due entirely to the no-proc ruleset or the obviously non-factual claim that no one is having any fun isn’t reasonable. PvPers are exactly the audience who will want to be grinding CP right now to get more advantages in PvP, and that’s not nearly as feasible in Cyrodiil as in PvE or daily BGs.

They already reduced the forced no-proc ruleset from two quarters to one. They’re highly unlikely to bring procs back midstream after that concession, especially when there are only two months to go.

Yep. But, I hate to say it, people got what they asked for. At least the people active on the forums. Sure, lots of others came on after the announcement to complain about it, but it was a little too late by then. There was a very vocal minority lobbying to get rid of proc sets down in the pvp forums for months and people just sort of left them to it.

Anyway, we are where we are. I think we're stuck with this for another 2 months and the real question is whether people will come back when / if zenimax actually let them use, what, the other 90% of sets in the game. Personally, I'm not so sure anymore.

The "proc set" ban was the reason I stopped going into cyro - you can have a debate about crimson, vateshrans etc but BTB, seriously? - but I think the thing it made me realise was that cyro had been going downhill for a long time. The performance problems made prime time a misery to play in, the nerf to group size completely destroyed the pug scene in the afternoon, and the changes to cross healing meant organised groups just farmed casual players zerging.

In short, banning proc sets might have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but the camel was in pretty bad shape to start with. Having found some other games to pvp in and switched my ESO toons over to pve, I'm not sure I'd switch back unless there was a lot more on the table - performance improvements for one. I'm kind of at the point that cyro should be taken off line, fundamentally reworked and then relaunched. Probably as something else. If you renable proc sets, sure, some people would go back. But I think alot of them have moved on now.

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

You disabled proc sets because you said it was making PvP more fun. Now that the population in Cyrodill has dropped massively and nobody is having fun, maybe you should enable those sets again?

I've stopped going, but mostly because I'm just sick of having my gear and build disabled by the developers. I'm done rebuilding my character every other week to accommodate their endless experiments at our expense. Enough is enough, and I've reached my breaking point in that regard.

Besides, they didn't even get rid of "procs" where it is the most unbalanced, which is in battlegrounds where all it takes a series of "procs" to go off to instantly kill you. And I've noticed a huge drop off in battleground populations as well. My wait times have easily tripled since the last update.

The problem is their PvP design is just all over the place, and they cater to the wrong population, being those people who want to be able to kill everyone quickly and shut out all defensive play styles and turn PvP into more of numbers game than it already is. And if they keep listening to those people, PvP is going to continue to decline.

Jeremy wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

You disabled proc sets because you said it was making PvP more fun. Now that the population in Cyrodill has dropped massively and nobody is having fun, maybe you should enable those sets again?

I've stopped going, but mostly because I'm just sick of having my gear and build disabled by the developers. I'm done rebuilding my character every other week to accommodate their endless experiments at our expense. Enough is enough, and I've reached my breaking point in that regard.

Besides, they didn't even get rid of "procs" where it is the most unbalanced, which is in battlegrounds where all it takes a series of "procs" to go off to instantly kill you. And I've noticed a huge drop off in battleground populations as well. My wait times have easily tripled since the last update.

The problem is their PvP design is just all over the place, and they cater to the wrong population, being those people who want to be able to kill everyone quickly and shut out all defensive play styles and turn PvP into more of numbers game than it already is. And if they keep listening to those people, PvP is going to continue to decline.

And really, people don't want to necessarily kill people quickly. What they want is for players to not be able to rely on their gear to fight, heal, and defend for them. Because that is what procs are doing. Oh, just took a big hit, don't worry, your proc will heal you on its own. Need to do damage, proc will do it, need defense or resources, here's a proc. When fighting in PVP is more about what a player is wearing than it is about the skills the player is using and the skill of that player, there is a problem. Procs are a problem.

Larcomar wrote: »

Yep. But, I hate to say it, people got what they asked for. At least the people active on the forums. Sure, lots of others came on after the announcement to complain about it, but it was a little too late by then. There was a very vocal minority lobbying to get rid of proc sets down in the pvp forums for months and people just sort of left them to it.

Anyway, we are where we are. I think we're stuck with this for another 2 months and the real question is whether people will come back when / if zenimax actually let them use, what, the other 90% of sets in the game. Personally, I'm not so sure anymore.

The "proc set" ban was the reason I stopped going into cyro - you can have a debate about crimson, vateshrans etc but BTB, seriously? - but I think the thing it made me realise was that cyro had been going downhill for a long time. The performance problems made prime time a misery to play in, the nerf to group size completely destroyed the pug scene in the afternoon, and the changes to cross healing meant organised groups just farmed casual players zerging.

In short, banning proc sets might have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but the camel was in pretty bad shape to start with. Having found some other games to pvp in and switched my ESO toons over to pve, I'm not sure I'd switch back unless there was a lot more on the table - performance improvements for one. I'm kind of at the point that cyro should be taken off line, fundamentally reworked and then relaunched. Probably as something else. If you renable proc sets, sure, some people would go back. But I think alot of them have moved on now.

^^This is standard practice. People in PvP will complain about something in Cyro because they see it on their death report, then hop on the forums and whine endlessly about it. ZOS in some misguided attempt to pander to PvP players will then do what the PvP are asking for, often screwing over PvE players in the process. Then people will jump on the forums and whine that ZOS did what the squeakiest wheels wanted. This particular change I find funny because it didn't affect PvE at all...it was strictly limited to PvP, which is a rarity.

I am sure the proc set changes are partially to blame for a smaller population...after all, proc sets were one of the only things allowing casual PvE players to jump in Cyrodiil without building specifically for PvP....now if you aren't built specifically for PvP all you can really do is die. They left the ceiling alone and cut the floor down into the basement...its no surprise this is the reaction of the player base. The player base on both the PvE and PvP side consist of a majority of casual players...the more you nerf them, them more likely they will find something else to play.

jaws343 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

You disabled proc sets because you said it was making PvP more fun. Now that the population in Cyrodill has dropped massively and nobody is having fun, maybe you should enable those sets again?

I've stopped going, but mostly because I'm just sick of having my gear and build disabled by the developers. I'm done rebuilding my character every other week to accommodate their endless experiments at our expense. Enough is enough, and I've reached my breaking point in that regard.

Besides, they didn't even get rid of "procs" where it is the most unbalanced, which is in battlegrounds where all it takes a series of "procs" to go off to instantly kill you. And I've noticed a huge drop off in battleground populations as well. My wait times have easily tripled since the last update.

The problem is their PvP design is just all over the place, and they cater to the wrong population, being those people who want to be able to kill everyone quickly and shut out all defensive play styles and turn PvP into more of numbers game than it already is. And if they keep listening to those people, PvP is going to continue to decline.

They've turned off sets once. And haven't turned them back on. There's been no every other week change to gear sets. And the extensive skill testing was 6 months ago. This is hardly a constant back and forth. They made a change and that change is going to last a patch. No back and forth.

They dramatically nerf and buff builds on this game left and right all the while expecting players to "adapt" to their endless experimentations. To suggest otherwise is simply a denial of reality. They might as well just do away with their Public Test Server at this point because it's obvious at this stage they use the official one for that purpose. And this latest example of them disabling certain sets in certain PvP activities is just a recent example in an endless list of examples of them chopping away at player builds then adding new builds only for them to chop away later. It has gotten ridiculous and has been going on nonstop for years now.

This game needs a class change and an armor refund system at a bare minimum if they are going to continue to treat this game like a testing ground for new ideas. Because I (and many others) are done wasting our time and money rebuilding our characters after every update because the developers can't make up their minds.

jaws343 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

LoveForElderScrolls wrote: »

You disabled proc sets because you said it was making PvP more fun. Now that the population in Cyrodill has dropped massively and nobody is having fun, maybe you should enable those sets again?

I've stopped going, but mostly because I'm just sick of having my gear and build disabled by the developers. I'm done rebuilding my character every other week to accommodate their endless experiments at our expense. Enough is enough, and I've reached my breaking point in that regard.

Besides, they didn't even get rid of "procs" where it is the most unbalanced, which is in battlegrounds where all it takes a series of "procs" to go off to instantly kill you. And I've noticed a huge drop off in battleground populations as well. My wait times have easily tripled since the last update.

The problem is their PvP design is just all over the place, and they cater to the wrong population, being those people who want to be able to kill everyone quickly and shut out all defensive play styles and turn PvP into more of numbers game than it already is. And if they keep listening to those people, PvP is going to continue to decline.

They've turned off sets once. And haven't turned them back on. There's been no every other week change to gear sets. And the extensive skill testing was 6 months ago. This is hardly a constant back and forth. They made a change and that change is going to last a patch. No back and forth.

They dramatically nerf and buff builds on this game left and right all the while expecting players to "adapt" to their endless experimentations. To suggest otherwise is simply a denial of reality. They might as well just do away with their Public Test Server at this point because it's obvious at this stage they use the official one for that purpose. And this latest example of them disabling certain sets in certain PvP activities is just a recent example in an endless list of examples of them chopping away at player builds then adding new builds only for them to chop away later. It has gotten ridiculous and has been going on nonstop for years now.

This game needs a class change and an armor refund system at a bare minimum if they are going to continue to treat this game like a testing ground for new ideas. Because I (and many others) are done wasting our time and money rebuilding our characters after every update because the developers can't make up their minds.

The static, unchanging game you describe would be incredibly boring.

I don't mind changes or additions to the game. It's destroying people's builds over and over then expecting them to "adapt" every update that I'm describing, and that's what is actually incredibly boring. We were told it was a temporary process so not to worry, that it was merely a side effect of some new design scheme they were implementing . But considering that was years ago when they said that, I think it's safe to assume was less than accurate.

FluffWit wrote: »

"Proc sets were one of the only things allowing casual PvE players to jump in Cyrodiil without building specifically for PvP....now if you aren't built specifically for PvP all you can really do is die"

I disagree, I think those sets were giving the dedicated pvpers who knew how to exploit them a big advantage over the more casual players.

I mean how many casual players were rocking Crimson? Very few. It was the dedicated pvpers taking advantage of that stuff.

No matter what your position is on proc sets, they should either remove them or keep them. Instead, they approach it in the most frustrating way imaginable, which is they remove them - but only from certain PvP activities - and then they are going to bring them back again later. lol...

Good luck trying to gear or build your character for PvP in this game. You are going to need it.

Larcomar wrote: »

...
The "proc set" ban was the reason I stopped going into cyro - you can have a debate about crimson, vateshrans etc but BTB, seriously? - but I think the thing it made me realise was that cyro had been going downhill for a long time. The performance problems made prime time a misery to play in, the nerf to group size completely destroyed the pug scene in the afternoon, and the changes to cross healing meant organised groups just farmed casual players zerging.
...

performance problems in Cyrodiil have been such since a few patches after launch
in the old memes, we postulated it had gone to hell with the infamous Lighting Patch

sometimes still joke around with friends that the real reason for the lag is the server can't keep track of where all the shadows being cast from skill lights are for all the different players at all the different times

but that also means that Cyrodiil performance has been in the gutter since before Monster Sets were even introduced to the game, am not sure how people thought that would fix the performance

gameplay wise tho, it is kind of nice not to have stupid arbitrary meteors and bear spirits all over the place; would still like to have my healer in Seducers tho like back around launch

Samadhi wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

...
The "proc set" ban was the reason I stopped going into cyro - you can have a debate about crimson, vateshrans etc but BTB, seriously? - but I think the thing it made me realise was that cyro had been going downhill for a long time. The performance problems made prime time a misery to play in, the nerf to group size completely destroyed the pug scene in the afternoon, and the changes to cross healing meant organised groups just farmed casual players zerging.
...

performance problems in Cyrodiil have been such since a few patches after launch
in the old memes, we postulated it had gone to hell with the infamous Lighting Patch

sometimes still joke around with friends that the real reason for the lag is the server can't keep track of where all the shadows being cast from skill lights are for all the different players at all the different times

but that also means that Cyrodiil performance has been in the gutter since before Monster Sets were even introduced to the game, am not sure how people thought that would fix the performance

gameplay wise tho, it is kind of nice not to have stupid arbitrary meteors and bear spirits all over the place; would still like to have my healer in Seducers tho like back around launch

Correct. It's the offensive procs that are the ones most detrimental to the gameplay because they can stack from multiple players onto a single target and just obliterate players out of the blue. The healing and defensive procs don't operate like that and were never much of an issue, at least not in NO-CP PvP. These fabled "unkillable" players were a myth (again, in NO-CP) and didn't actually exist.

I suggested that they add a proc immunity system (similar to how CC immunity works) where a player would be made immune to procs for a short window of time after getting hit by one. That was the whole idea of procs anyway, since they are balanced by short cool downs attached to their effects. But I guess that made too much sense. They rather take them away, then add them back again, then probably take them away again, then add them back again for another year or two. You all can have fun dealing with that. I'm out. haha