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Price fixing, flipping and monopoly
Grandchamp1989
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Usually by the end of an event the overflow of supply vs demand usually means the prices goes down, rather drasticly, for style pages, noise/joke poppers, gear pieces etc.
This event has been vastly different in prices doesn't seem to drop. It seems like guilds are creating a monopoly of items by buying up any items under market value to push the prices higher. It seems a lot of items are vastly overpriced compared to their real value - and the reason they don't drop in price is because guilds buy up all the items to keep a monopoly on the items.
If you own or can buy up all the pieces of a certain item you can set the prices to whatever you feel like.
I used to think all the threads about price fixing, monopoly and buying up all the hot items were an ESO conspiracy... But given this event... and seeing how all the items I look for gets bought up within 3-5 minutes of them being made available, that's an issue I haven't noticed before.
How much must items increase in price before someone take action and the market can crash back to real prices. It wasn't terribly long ago I could get Mundane Runes and Heartwood for 150g a piece and not 500+ as it stands now. This is true for most items atm.
My experience is on PC EU not sure how it stands on other servers.
Edited by Grandchamp1989 on April 1, 2021 12:21PM This event has been vastly different in prices doesn't seem to drop. It seems like guilds are creating a monopoly of items by buying up any items under market value to push the prices higher. It seems a lot of items are vastly overpriced compared to their real value - and the reason they don't drop in price is because guilds buy up all the items to keep a monopoly on the items.
If you own or can buy up all the pieces of a certain item you can set the prices to whatever you feel like.
I used to think all the threads about price fixing, monopoly and buying up all the hot items were an ESO conspiracy... But given this event... and seeing how all the items I look for gets bought up within 3-5 minutes of them being made available, that's an issue I haven't noticed before.
How much must items increase in price before someone take action and the market can crash back to real prices. It wasn't terribly long ago I could get Mundane Runes and Heartwood for 150g a piece and not 500+ as it stands now. This is true for most items atm.
My experience is on PC EU not sure how it stands on other servers.
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zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think it is monopoly, i think it is because the parts were so rare...Edited by zvavi on April 1, 2021 2:04PM19 -
Stanx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah it's been pretty crazy in this event. From what I can see mirth shards have been dramatically decreasing in price (was selling for 20k at the beginning of the event, selling around 2.5k now on XBOX EU) but the joke poppers and noise makers are crazy. I sold two poppers for 80k a pop just matching guild listing prices. Remember these dropping like hot-cakes last year.2 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't think it is monopoly, u think it is because the parts were so rare...
I used to feel exactly like you do, but I don't anymore.
I used to think it was an ESO conspiracy.
But something is definitely pushing the prices up artificially, and not the free market.
I do believe there is an organized effort to keep prices up.6 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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Yep, this might be the case. They were adding more & more rewards over the years, so it is way different now vs Jester Festivals event in the past. They added more quests, but that was not enough - the drop rate is simply too low. I think next year, if they add yet more different rewards, they will have to give 2 or 3 gold box reward for 1st 2 or 3 Jester quests, instead of one.I don't think it is monopoly, u think it is because the parts were so rare...3 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Also with the new CP system everyone gets more items when they harvest with plentiful harvest CP.
On top of that you get more rare items when you refine Meticolous Dissasembly yet prices for mats don't drop.
The supply is objectively higher but the prices either stay the same or continue to increase.
Also if there's a shortage of items to sell why are the Cadwell's style like Cadwell's "Greatsword" pages 65+ pages of people selling it but prices don't drop? Apparantly nobody is buying it at those prices..Edited by Grandchamp1989 on April 1, 2021 12:47PM3 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭Guild monopoly and items being bought up as you said are kind of different things.
Yes , regalia style pages in 5-6k price range are being bought really quickly but its ok i guess.
You can stiil buy it for 8-10k a piece.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Think fewer did the quest this year as they did plenty of them earlier and not knowing how expensive the old rewards was now. Also lots of people has been grinding during double xp.Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »
Yep, this might be the case. They were adding more & more rewards over the years, so it is way different now vs Jester Festivals event in the past. They added more quests, but that was not enough - the drop rate is simply too low. I think next year, if they add yet more different rewards, they will have to give 2 or 3 gold box reward for 1st 2 or 3 Jester quests, instead of one.I don't think it is monopoly, u think it is because the parts were so rare...
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
RedMuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Personal anecdata so take it for what it's worth but:
1) I didn't play the even nearly as much as last year for a number of reasons and I mainly did either just the Jorunn one for tickets or the double King Boar quest and called it a day.
2) Obviously this lead to a very low number of boxes so the following is not reliable at all but I only got the style pages from the daily golden box and both joke popper and noise maker parts didn't drop for me at all.0 -
Xanathos✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I don't think it is monopoly, u think it is because the parts were so rare...
I used to feel exactly like you do, but I don't anymore.
I used to think it was an ESO conspiracy.
But something is definitely pushing the prices up artificially, and not the free market.
I do believe there is an organized effort to keep prices up.
I know what you think exactly, that is work of reptilians.
Jokes aside, that how market works, in real words and in game. From ancient times, people always find a way to be more rich. When from last patches most player lost it source of gold, overland gear for example, now they seek most lucrative alternatives like motifs, or items need to accomplish some achievments, like mentioned noise maker parts.
That is free market policy, and no matter what changes will be implemented, it always find another way.2 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah it's been pretty crazy in this event. From what I can see mirth shards have been dramatically decreasing in price (was selling for 20k at the beginning of the event, selling around 2.5k now on XBOX EU) but the joke poppers and noise makers are crazy. I sold two poppers for 80k a pop just matching guild listing prices. Remember these dropping like hot-cakes last year.
I know that I got like 8 Mirth shards (doing 2-3 quests on 3-4 characters a day), and just one Noise Maker part & one Sow part. Didn't see any other memento things.0 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I don't think it is monopoly, u think it is because the parts were so rare...
I used to feel exactly like you do, but I don't anymore.
I used to think it was an ESO conspiracy.
But something is definitely pushing the prices up artificially, and not the free market.
I do believe there is an organized effort to keep prices up.
I know what you think exactly, that is work of reptilians.
Jokes aside, that how market works, in real words and in game. From ancient times, people always find a way to be more rich. When from last patches most player lost it source of gold, overland gear for example, now they seek most lucrative alternatives like motifs, or items need to accomplish some achievments, like mentioned noise maker parts.
That is free market policy, and no matter what changes will be implemented, it always find another way.
Yes, we should be most vigilant of the Reptilians (Not argonians they're okey) - tin foil hat ftw!
On the real though...
Take the Cadwell Styles Pages.. Greatsword version is 65+ PAGES on TTC, the supply is there, but they don't sell! Yet prices don't drop?
Joke Poppers are.. Hold on.. 175 pages on TTC! Yet rise and rise in price.It's not exactly rare..
Materials.. With CP points we gain more materials from refining and harvest more, yet prices don't drop but actually increase? Despite increase in supply?
Almost every items worth anything is seeing a price increase...Edited by Grandchamp1989 on April 1, 2021 1:00PM0 -
Larcomar✭✭✭✭✭The question I always ask when I see these prices is, are people actually buying them? I mean, it's not a perfect market by any standard. So it's quite possible some optimistic person stuck the first one on at 100k and everyone else has just followed suit. Of course, subsequent listers will put it on at 99,999, the next at 99900, the next at 98,999 etc etc But it takes a long time for the price to drop. I'd guess the real test will be when, in 30 days time or whenever, a bunch of these items get returned unsold, what happens then.4
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Madhojo✭✭✭Guilds have been ridiculously greedy forever on console thanks to ZOS refusing to allow even basic price finder mods. Honestly though the economy has always been a joke in ESO (probably all mmos) I still remember the reson for having to pay for fast traveling was to "have a money sink to help balance the economy" and that was 7 years ago. (Travel and respecing should be free always)2
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Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The question I always ask when I see these prices is, are people actually buying them? I mean, it's not a perfect market by any standard. So it's quite possible some optimistic person stuck the first one on at 100k and everyone else has just followed suit. Of course, subsequent listers will put it on at 99,999, the next at 99900, the next at 98,999 etc etc But it takes a long time for the price to drop. I'd guess the real test will be when, in 30 days time or whenever, a bunch of these items get returned unsold, what happens then.
I'm of the firm believe they're being held high artificially during the event. There's 175 pages of Joke Poppers on TTC!
They don't drop in price.
In a month you'll see these things being thrown at you for 2 gold and a free sandwich when their real market price is revealed5 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Also with the new CP system everyone gets more items when they harvest with plentiful harvest CP.
On top of that you get more rare items when you refine Meticolous Dissasembly yet prices for mats don't drop.
The supply is objectively higher but the prices either stay the same or continue to increase.
Also if there's a shortage of items to sell why are the Cadwell's style like Cadwell's "Greatsword" pages 65+ pages of people selling it but prices don't drop? Apparantly nobody is buying it at those prices..
Before you use Plentiful Harvest as an example of supply increasing, you should be aware that the farmers who've tested it are getting considerably less than 50% doubled nodes. Based on data so far, it seems to be in the 30-40% range, which is pretty similar to pre CP 2.0 harvesting.4 -
Rogue_WolfESO✭✭✭✭As true in the real world markets, the consumer can choose to buy or not to buy.
I personally hope for all of these highly overpriced items to collect virual dust for 30 days before being returned to their seller's coffers, less the high listing fee.6 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I don't think it is monopoly, u think it is because the parts were so rare...
I used to feel exactly like you do, but I don't anymore.
I used to think it was an ESO conspiracy.
But something is definitely pushing the prices up artificially, and not the free market.
I do believe there is an organized effort to keep prices up.
I know what you think exactly, that is work of reptilians.
Jokes aside, that how market works, in real words and in game. From ancient times, people always find a way to be more rich. When from last patches most player lost it source of gold, overland gear for example, now they seek most lucrative alternatives like motifs, or items need to accomplish some achievments, like mentioned noise maker parts.
That is free market policy, and no matter what changes will be implemented, it always find another way.
Yes, we should be most vigilant of the Reptilians (Not argonians they're okey) - tin foil hat ftw!
On the real though...
Take the Cadwell Styles Pages.. Greatsword version is 65+ PAGES on TTC, the supply is there, but they don't sell! Yet prices don't drop?
Joke Poppers are.. Hold on.. 175 pages on TTC! Yet rise and rise in price.It's not exactly rare..
Materials.. With CP points we gain more materials from refining and harvest more, yet prices don't drop but actually increase? Despite increase in supply?
Almost every items worth anything is seeing a price increase...
TTC shows you what *hasn't* sold. So if people are listing things higher than what people want to pay for it, you're going to get lots of listings and no buyers.
As for materials, you know the Jubilee festival starts today, right? Mats are going to sell like hot cakes.
Meanwhile, motifs are going to drop in price.The Moot Councillor2 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I don't think it is monopoly, u think it is because the parts were so rare...
I used to feel exactly like you do, but I don't anymore.
I used to think it was an ESO conspiracy.
But something is definitely pushing the prices up artificially, and not the free market.
I do believe there is an organized effort to keep prices up.
I know what you think exactly, that is work of reptilians.
Jokes aside, that how market works, in real words and in game. From ancient times, people always find a way to be more rich. When from last patches most player lost it source of gold, overland gear for example, now they seek most lucrative alternatives like motifs, or items need to accomplish some achievments, like mentioned noise maker parts.
That is free market policy, and no matter what changes will be implemented, it always find another way.
Yes, we should be most vigilant of the Reptilians (Not argonians they're okey) - tin foil hat ftw!
On the real though...
Take the Cadwell Styles Pages.. Greatsword version is 65+ PAGES on TTC, the supply is there, but they don't sell! Yet prices don't drop?
Joke Poppers are.. Hold on.. 175 pages on TTC! Yet rise and rise in price.It's not exactly rare..
Materials.. With CP points we gain more materials from refining and harvest more, yet prices don't drop but actually increase? Despite increase in supply?
Almost every items worth anything is seeing a price increase...
TTC shows you what *hasn't* sold. So if people are listing things higher than what people want to pay for it, you're going to get lots of listings and no buyers.
As for materials, you know the Jubilee festival starts today, right? Mats are going to sell like hot cakes.
Meanwhile, motifs are going to drop in price.
I know it shows what hasn't sold, but people are making an argument they're high in price because there's a shortage of them this event. I disagree with 175 pages of them just sitting there.. as you're saying.. Not being sold.2 -
Larcomar✭✭✭✭✭[/quote]
I know it shows what hasn't sold, but people are making an argument they're high in price because there's a shortage of them this event. I disagree with 175 pages of them just sitting there.. as you're saying.. Not being sold. [/quote]
Yeah and it's not like people *have* to buy these things. I mean, I could get trying to corner the market in key sets / mats people have to have to be competitive in end game activities. But this stuff? I think it's for a memento? If people are buying them up, I suspect they're in for an unpleasant surprise. Then again, people seem to spend real world money roplling the dice because they *have* to have some mount from the crown store, so who knows. Still, if I was looking to corner the market, I'd try and grab an essential corner.
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Viewsfrom6ix✭✭✭✭✭All supply and demand.
An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay. For example, I've bought like over 20+ joke poppers for 10-20k
and re-listed for 90k and they all sold within a day.
If people are willing to pay 90k for joke poppers then that is what it is worth and all the 10-20k ones are listed at below market value.
If there wasn't a demand for them because of the event, I wouldn't be able to sell them all for 90k within a day.
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Grizzbeorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TTC shows you what *hasn't* sold.
Your emphasis would be incredibly misleading to anyone who is unfamiliar with TTC.
It does NOT show you *only* what hasn't sold yet. It shows you everything that has been reported as listed to sell.
You can see items in TTC that were listed days ago but have since been sold.
Anyone who has jumped all over Tamriel using TTC as a guide, trying to grab something only to find that it's gone when they get there knows this.Edited by Grizzbeorn on April 1, 2021 1:38PM5 -
ThorianB✭✭✭✭✭
✭I did the event exactly once this year. Last year i did it most days on a couple of characters. The year before that i did it every day on a few characters, the year before that i did it every day on all my character... see a pattern? These events just get really old when you have done them so much in the past. They don't change enough year to year to make them interesting.
So all of those rewards that i would normal dump on the trader at bargain basement prices were not collected this year by me. Get a few thousand people like me on one server and you see a pretty decent impact to event items.3 -
Eedat✭✭✭✭✭The question I always ask when I see these prices is, are people actually buying them? I mean, it's not a perfect market by any standard. So it's quite possible some optimistic person stuck the first one on at 100k and everyone else has just followed suit. Of course, subsequent listers will put it on at 99,999, the next at 99900, the next at 98,999 etc etc But it takes a long time for the price to drop. I'd guess the real test will be when, in 30 days time or whenever, a bunch of these items get returned unsold, what happens then.
Kinda depends on how frequently the event item drops. Like dremora style pages quickly rose to thousands of listing and prices dropped to 1k very quicklyGuilds have been ridiculously greedy forever on console thanks to ZOS refusing to allow even basic price finder mods. Honestly though the economy has always been a joke in ESO (probably all mmos) I still remember the reson for having to pay for fast traveling was to "have a money sink to help balance the economy" and that was 7 years ago. (Travel and respecing should be free always)
ZOS doesn't decide whether mods are allowed or not on a platform. They obviously don't care or they wouldn't be allowed on PC. It's the company that owns the platform that decides what is allowed on it1 -
nenekotanb16_ESO✭✭✭It's a combination of more people blindly using TTC to copy prices, and actual rarity.
Mirth shards are farmable, in the sense that they drop in the purple boxes. The popper fragments etc are not, as they only drop from the golden boxes.
For example, I've had one popper part, one sovereign pig part, and no other drops except for style pages. So yes, they are now rare. However, prices do stay high for longer because a lot of people just copy the TTC price, without actually checking whether it sells for that.
Finally, if the popper parts were farmable, people would actually start farming loads of purple boxes and popper parts would drop in price as they do for other things that are easily obtained.4 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »All supply and demand.
An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay. For example, I've bought like over 20+ joke poppers for 10-20k
and re-listed for 90k and they all sold within a day.
If people are willing to pay 90k for joke poppers then that is what it is worth and all the 10-20k ones are listed at below market value.
If there wasn't a demand for them because of the event, I wouldn't be able to sell them all for 90k within a day.
Yep it's people like this jacking up the price.
Some dude gets a Joke Popper and sells it for 4k then the next guild sees it and buys all the Joke Poppers at 3-10k and sell them for 20k. Then people like you see them sold for 20k, buy them and sell them for 90k
Things are being bought up and resold at a higher price before people who actually needs them can buy them at a reasonable price. I feel so bad for the guy who bougt them for 90k each in a month they'll be worth 2gold and a sandwich when those 175 pages of grossly overpriced Joke Poppers aren't being sold.4 -
Viewsfrom6ix✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »All supply and demand.
An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay. For example, I've bought like over 20+ joke poppers for 10-20k
and re-listed for 90k and they all sold within a day.
If people are willing to pay 90k for joke poppers then that is what it is worth and all the 10-20k ones are listed at below market value.
If there wasn't a demand for them because of the event, I wouldn't be able to sell them all for 90k within a day.
Yep it's people like this jacking up the price.
Some dude gets a Joke Popper and sells it for 4k then the next guild sees it and buys all the Joke Poppers at 3-10k and sell them for 20k. Then people like you see them sold for 20k, buy them and sell them for 90k
Things are being bought up and resold at a higher price before people who actually needs them can buy them at a reasonable price. I feel so bad for the guy who bougt them for 90k each in a month they'll be worth 2gold and a sandwich when those 175 pages of grossly overpriced Joke Poppers aren't being sold.
The reason why people can jack up the prices is because people are willing to pay for it. A lot of people don't want to wait months for the prices to drop to get something they want in a video game.
So don't feel bad. They got what they wanted right now for a price they were willing to pay.1 -
nenekotanb16_ESO✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »Some dude gets a Joke Popper and sells it for 4k then the next guild sees it and buys all the Joke Poppers at 3-10k and sell them for 20k. Then people like you see them sold for 20k, buy them and sell them for 90k
Things are being bought up and resold at a higher price before people who actually needs them can buy them at a reasonable price. I feel so bad for the guy who bougt them for 90k each in a month they'll be worth 2gold and a sandwich when those 175 pages of grossly overpriced Joke Poppers aren't being sold.
Sure, but the only reason this works, is because ZOS made the supply limited. If you'd regularly get popper parts from the purple boxes, prices would not stay at 90K because people would get their own in a matter of minutes.
This is In contrast to most other events, where you can spend time to farm to obtain more of the item by getting more purple boxes. With the poppers you can only be lucky.
They're not going to be worth 2 gold though, they'll stay reasonable high. See for example the hollowjack motifs.2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »I don't think it is monopoly, u think it is because the parts were so rare...
I used to feel exactly like you do, but I don't anymore.
I used to think it was an ESO conspiracy.
But something is definitely pushing the prices up artificially, and not the free market.
I do believe there is an organized effort to keep prices up.
Naturally prices are kept up when it is rear, but not by organized effort, but by many individuals that are just aware they can profit. Even I flip prices occasionally, but I suck at it so my profit is pretty small.Edited by zvavi on April 1, 2021 2:07PM0 -
Moonsprite✭✭✭The event didn’t really have anything I wanted to use tickets on. I did the first quest for the pie then went and tried to get CP instead. I’m low CP, like 230ish now. I still had tickets from the last event too. I think it’s great people can get a skin from morphing their fire ball, but it doesn’t interest me. I already have the pet so I’m just waiting for the next thing 🙂0 -
Saucy_Jack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also, it should be noted that there's a non-zero subset of players who have more than one account, list items for a stupid amount, then buy it with their alt account. Some do this to manipulate MM data (which makes me want to punch them in the throat), and some do this to "reach" sales quotas in their guilds (which also makes me want to punch them in the throat).
PROTIP 1: If you need to game MM data to increase your sales, YOU"RE A BAD TRADER. Gold is easy enough to come by in this game without actively skewing data other traders rely on. Stop being the way you are.
PROTIP 2: If you need sell to yourself to make a guild quota, YOU DON'T BELONG IN THAT GUILD. FIND A DIFFERENT ONE WITH A LOWER QUOTA, GOOD GRIEF.
No, I'm not bitter. Why do you ask?ALL HAIL SNUGGLORR THE MAGNIFICENT, KING OF THE RNG AND NIRN'S ONE TRUE GOD! Also, become a Scrub-scriber! SJ Scrubs: Playing games badly to make you feel better about yourself.9
This discussion has been closed.