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Making the PTS open to all current subs would be a really good idea.
Gunavar
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Let's all be honest here. Things are really broken right now. There are more abilities that are bugged than aren't bugged. Despite quest fixes, many are still broken. There are still debilitating character bugs, performance issues, and a laundry list of other problems. If you want to see some of them, check my thread here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/84287/comprehensive-list-of-bugs-broken-things-and-other-severe-issues#latest
So when Craglorn is pushed to the PTS, there needs to be open testing of it. It's clear that pre-launch testing was inadequate to identify and fix all the bugs (or maybe the testing was adequate and the QA wasn't). Either way, more people testing should equal more bugs found and more content fixed before the release of the patch. If you don't want it to be open to testing by every single player than at least make a process so that players can opt in for PTS testing.
So when Craglorn is pushed to the PTS, there needs to be open testing of it. It's clear that pre-launch testing was inadequate to identify and fix all the bugs (or maybe the testing was adequate and the QA wasn't). Either way, more people testing should equal more bugs found and more content fixed before the release of the patch. If you don't want it to be open to testing by every single player than at least make a process so that players can opt in for PTS testing.
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ZOS_AmeliaR✭✭✭✭✭Our long-term goal is in fact for anyone with an active ESO subscription to have access to PTS when it is open. We are still working out the logistics, so this won't be the case until after Craglorn.12
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Gunavar✭✭✭That's incredibly disappointing to hear because Craglorn patch and the associated fixes will be the make or break patch for lots of people and having it not be widely tested is not a good thing.5
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Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭That's incredibly disappointing to hear because Craglorn patch and the associated fixes will be the make or break patch for lots of people and having it not be widely tested is not a good thing.
It'll only be on PTS for 7-10 days they said anyway.... not really enough time
, per the SoTG Address. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.5 -
WitchAngel✭✭✭ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »Our long-term goal is in fact for anyone with an active ESO subscription to have access to PTS when it is open. We are still working out the logistics, so this won't be the case until after Craglorn.
Developing an expansion at this stage..:
It can be compared to spending money on new rims for a car with flat tires.Edited by WitchAngel on April 24, 2014 8:00PM4 -
Caelo✭✭✭
^ This, and I'm pretty sure we did adequate testing.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »
It'll only be on PTS for 7-10 days they said anyway.... not really enough timeThat's incredibly disappointing to hear because Craglorn patch and the associated fixes will be the make or break patch for lots of people and having it not be widely tested is not a good thing., per the SoTG Address.
It's not like everyone working at ZOS is qualified enough to fix bugs. Game designers and sound artists probably have almost nothing to fix and I doubt a lot of new coding is necessary for the new "expansion" (it's more content update), so the programmers probably have a lot of time to fix bugs whether ZOS is working on new content or not.WitchAngel wrote: »[...]
Developing an expansion at this stage..:
It can be compared to spending money on new rims for a car with flat tires.
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NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@ZOS_AmeliaR
At minimum you guys really need to give Vet 10 Templates to all of the Psijic Order testers. I know there's a decent chunk who hit VR10, but not enough.
You will need every member of that group at VR10 testing this content to make sure its working.
In fact, I think you should have given templates much more often throughout your Beta testing process to ensure that high level content got appropriately tested. But that's in the past.
Lets rectify that mistake going forward.3 -
Carde✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Nordjitsu we are getting templates for Craglorn, Kai mentioned it on the Psijic facebook group.
I think Craglorn should get tested more than 7-10 days personally, but their choice is likely made. The reason I think this is because there's supposed to be a balance patch alongside it, and that might need to be tested more thoroughly.Edited by Carde on April 24, 2014 8:48PMMember of the Psijic Order PTS Group2 -
Jessabella✭✭✭✭I don't see 7-10 days being adequate either. Even with months I never got higher the 32 in PTS, and that was because I explored everything and every where.
There are many different play styles amongst the testers though. So hopefully us "explorer" types can still contribute. I for one plan to push myself towards playing and grouping and hopefully save the exploring for release.Mara's Tester
Psijic Order/PTS Tester
Jessabella
Belladonna Bacia Serves her Master Aurora Rose
Mara's MoxieThe Sidekick Order The Psijic Order Elder Moot
And my big fat Naked Nord
Ate my Clothes
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xxs0cksxx✭✭ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »Our long-term goal is in fact for anyone with an active ESO subscription to have access to PTS when it is open. We are still working out the logistics, so this won't be the case until after Craglorn.
I do not know who leads this operation that intentionally shushes costumers away from Zenimax. But whoever it is - he does a great job.
I would like to have tested the patch on the PTS. I would have payed for 3 more months if I would have had an actual prove that something is happening and things are adressed in an acceptable amount of time.
That the PTS for a bigger amount of people is a "long-term goal" actually just shows again that the organization at Zenimax and the strategy for the first two months is just horrible.
Of course there is another assumption possible: That the most severe bugs are still not fixed - but a content update is released before that. If that is so, it would just be embarassing, since most of these bugs are there since beta and have been repeatedly reported *hundreds - of - times.*
But yes - keep pushing backwards the only thing that can prevent the game from being a desaster: Having a platform that would allow comprehensive reports on errors in the game BEFORE the patch hits the big playerbase.Edited by xxs0cksxx on April 24, 2014 8:53PM0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
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^ This, and I'm pretty sure we did adequate testing.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »
It'll only be on PTS for 7-10 days they said anyway.... not really enough timeThat's incredibly disappointing to hear because Craglorn patch and the associated fixes will be the make or break patch for lots of people and having it not be widely tested is not a good thing., per the SoTG Address.
It's not like everyone working at ZOS is qualified enough to fix bugs. Game designers and sound artists probably have almost nothing to fix and I doubt a lot of new coding is necessary for the new "expansion" (it's more content update), so the programmers probably have a lot of time to fix bugs whether ZOS is working on new content or not.WitchAngel wrote: »[...]
Developing an expansion at this stage..:
It can be compared to spending money on new rims for a car with flat tires.
You mean hundreds-of-person teams have more than one group of people doing things!? BLASPHEMY! EVERYONE in the company is qualified to do EVERYTHING /sarcasm
-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.3 -
crush83✭✭✭✭It would probably be a good idea, judging by release, to allow the general population to test Craglorn before it's released.
That is, unless you plan on making people pay extra for Craglorn...1 -
Gunavar✭✭✭It would probably be a good idea, judging by release, to allow the general population to test Craglorn before it's released.
That is, unless you plan on making people pay extra for Craglorn...
They sort of do because it's not going to release until after the first month's sub.
Want to see if we're actually going to fix all these bugs and game-breaking issues? SUBSCRIBE TO FIND OUT!4 -
Gunavar✭✭✭As if the bug fixes are tied into the content update...Firor wrote:We are in process of putting up our first major update to the game on our Play Test Server (PTS), which includes many updates to the game, including class and weapon ability tweaks, content fixes, and updates to almost all game systems.
So yes, they are tied to the content update.0 -
Auric_ESO✭✭✭✭sounds like they've been preparing a major release. they should have kept us in the loop on that. It would be nice to know they are working on these kind of things"The purpose of training is to tighten up the slack, toughen the body, and polish the spirit." Morihei Ueshiba0 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Noone is twisting anyone's arm to pay. You want to wait and see then dont pay. Its simple.
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xxs0cksxx✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »
Noone is twisting anyone's arm to pay. You want to wait and see then dont pay. Its simple.
I fully agree with you. Which is the reason I unsubbed. I want to see results before I pay one more cent for this game.
Still I think you got my point
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CrimsonThomas✭✭✭✭I want to see results before I pay one more cent for this game.
Exactly why I haven't set up my subscription yet. I'm not paying to be an alpha tester. The closed beta was an experience I'll be forever grateful for, but I didn't have to pay for that. I won't pay to see more of the same shambles, I have to see some real improvement on Zenimax's end with ESO first, not just talk.
Edited by CrimsonThomas on April 25, 2014 1:01AM1 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would rather you, ZOS, delay this content update and keep polishing it until you've met this criteria: Fixed ALL the bugged abilities and passives. Only then do I wish to see this new Adventure zone, and please don't rush this out of the door because it will only hurt you in the long run.
Edited by tordr86b16_ESO on April 25, 2014 1:07AM0 -
CrimsonThomas✭✭✭✭Question, how are the group trials and dungeons, the most boasted-about features of Craglorn, supposed to work? Player grouping (particularly PVE grouping) is arguably one of the most broken aspects of the game, and has been since the beta.Edited by CrimsonThomas on April 25, 2014 1:07AM0
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xxs0cksxx✭✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »I would rather you, ZOS, delay this content update and keep polishing it until you've met this criteria: Fixed ALL the bugged abilities and passives. Only then do I wish to see this new Adventure zone, and please don't rush this out of the door because it will only hurt you in the long run.
That is not possible. Nearly everywhere quests are bugged. Even basic skills are broken. Regarding every class. PvP is buggy, emperor is broken, the bank and guildbank are a joke (i actually found it insulting when i saw the guild bank the first time). Veteran gameplay is simply grinding. Everything is horribly setup for console use - which makes the game a disgrace when playing it without mods.
Not to mention that every second NPC in this game looks exactly like the one from two quests ago.
The content is great, the story is great but the implementation and interface and the rest is just... aweful. You can not even setup more then 4 guild ranks - In a game where you have up to 500 members in your guild. That is so much imcompetence right there I am actually out of words for that. I am not sure if Zenimax employs stupid people or if they are just incredibly lazy.
And I have the feeling that all the other things were also mostly Zenimax's part.
Their code is as good as their "open policy to keep people informed".Edited by xxs0cksxx on April 25, 2014 1:12AM0 -
Xexpo✭✭✭✭✭This thread started out great... now being derailed by fictional pay-to-bugfix gibberjabber. :'(Kiki Dickson ~~~ Dixmanian Devil ~~~ Cornelius Buckshank Jr.
Histy-Fitz ~~~ Boozemer ~~~ Chace X'expo
Lluvia De'Fuego ~~~ Shakes Spear
Macro and Cheese NA/PC5 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »I would rather you, ZOS, delay this content update and keep polishing it until you've met this criteria: Fixed ALL the bugged abilities and passives. Only then do I wish to see this new Adventure zone, and please don't rush this out of the door because it will only hurt you in the long run.
That is not possible. Nearly everywhere quests are bugged. Even basic skills are broken. Regarding every class. PvP is buggy, emperor is broken, the bank and guildbank are a joke (i actually found it insulting when i saw the guild bank the first time). Veteran gameplay is simply grinding. Everything is horribly setup for console use - which makes the game a disgrace when playing it without mods.
Not to mention that every second NPC in this game looks exactly like the one from two quests ago.
The content is great, the story is great but the implementation and interface and the rest is just... aweful. You can not even setup more then 4 guild ranks - In a game where you have up to 500 members in your guild. That is so much imcompetence right there I am actually out of words for that. I am not sure if Zenimax employs stupid people or if they are just incredibly lazy.
And I have the feeling that all the other things were also mostly Zenimax's part.
Their code is as good as their "open policy to keep people informed".
Because they thought it would a fantastic idea to mix PC with Console? I've said this a thousand times before and I'm going to repeat it once more. PC and Console does not mix well together and that is pretty evident in this game...
They've oversimplified systems so that it will work on consoles, but this means it is lacking on the PC side...
Also, their earliest announcement of platforms that ESO would support, they promised the PC version would be different from the Console version. But from what we have seen so far this is simply not true, at all (unless you count Addon support lol).
Edited by tordr86b16_ESO on April 25, 2014 1:33AM1 -
Wrekkoning✭✭ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »Our long-term goal is in fact for anyone with an active ESO subscription to have access to PTS when it is open. We are still working out the logistics, so this won't be the case until after Craglorn.
Yes let's wait till after the next bit patch since the first pts testers did such a great job...... No bugs in sight.... Just a bunch of vr10 pts testers with lots of gold... Lol dumb dumb dumb.
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xxs0cksxx✭✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »I would rather you, ZOS, delay this content update and keep polishing it until you've met this criteria: Fixed ALL the bugged abilities and passives. Only then do I wish to see this new Adventure zone, and please don't rush this out of the door because it will only hurt you in the long run.
That is not possible. Nearly everywhere quests are bugged. Even basic skills are broken. Regarding every class. PvP is buggy, emperor is broken, the bank and guildbank are a joke (i actually found it insulting when i saw the guild bank the first time). Veteran gameplay is simply grinding. Everything is horribly setup for console use - which makes the game a disgrace when playing it without mods.
Not to mention that every second NPC in this game looks exactly like the one from two quests ago.
The content is great, the story is great but the implementation and interface and the rest is just... aweful. You can not even setup more then 4 guild ranks - In a game where you have up to 500 members in your guild. That is so much imcompetence right there I am actually out of words for that. I am not sure if Zenimax employs stupid people or if they are just incredibly lazy.
And I have the feeling that all the other things were also mostly Zenimax's part.
Their code is as good as their "open policy to keep people informed".
Because they thought it would a fantastic idea to mix PC with Console? I've said this a thousand times before and I'm going to repeat it once more. PC and Console does not mix well together and that is pretty evident in this game...
They've oversimplified systems so that it will work on consoles, but this means it is lacking on the PC side...
Also, their earliest announcement of platforms that ESO would support, they promised the PC version would be different from the Console version. But from what we have seen so far this is simply not true, at all (unless you count Addon support lol).
I totally agree with you. PC and console doesnt mix at all. But I am afraid soon an MMO only has one button left, so noone can do something wrong or do less damage then people actually putting effort and time into exercise and theorycrafting...
I hope you did not get my point wrong - it is terrible that this game is setup for consoles. But Zenimax clearly seems to aim at the short-term profit, so this will not matter much as they will just get the money they "lose" on subscriptions back by selling it to poor console players that can not even get mods for the game (mods that for example shows the char-name in the guild window..., or lets start with the simple things
: showing item rarity as a color, or showing the status of an equipped item without pointing on it) Edited by xxs0cksxx on April 25, 2014 1:40AM0 -
Putok✭✭✭Wait, there WON'T be open testing for 1.1?
ZOS, given the magnitude of the content bugs on release despite a lengthy closed beta, I think that's an absolutely horrible idea. That isn't to say the PTS testers were bad, a lot of bugs either don't pop up or don't seen as severe with a small group of testers. Having a larger number of creative minds examining mechanics also makes finding exploits and design flaws easier.
I hope this stuff is very well polished already.
If it's as bad as the regular game at launch, it could be very bad news.0 -
Carde✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As a member of the current closed PTS group, I certainly would not feel slighted in the least if the Craglorn patch wasn't exclusive for us.
It might be time to do some much larger scale testing than we had on that server.Member of the Psijic Order PTS Group2 -
Caelo✭✭✭
What I meant is that they could have released bugfixes without the new content. So ZOS working on new content should not have to mean bug fixes will be ready later than when they're not working on new content. But yes, they are bundles with each other for whatever silly reason they thought up.As if the bug fixes are tied into the content update...Firor wrote:We are in process of putting up our first major update to the game on our Play Test Server (PTS), which includes many updates to the game, including class and weapon ability tweaks, content fixes, and updates to almost all game systems.
So yes, they are tied to the content update.
It's funny how you think we did not do a good job. As far as I know we reported most of the bugs that are still in the game, but apparently fixing them is not as easy as it sounds.Wrekkoning wrote: »ZOS_AmeliaR wrote: »Our long-term goal is in fact for anyone with an active ESO subscription to have access to PTS when it is open. We are still working out the logistics, so this won't be the case until after Craglorn.
Yes let's wait till after the next bit patch since the first pts testers did such a great job...... No bugs in sight.... Just a bunch of vr10 pts testers with lots of gold... Lol dumb dumb dumb.
Also some of the new bugs are pretty hard to find if the servers aren't stressed enough. For that reason alone it might be wise to open the PTS for everyone that wants to get on and run into way more bugs than on live. But those players should then also stop whining and complaining and actually write bug reports.
So I agree with Carde that larger scale testing would be preferable.Edited by Caelo on April 25, 2014 2:17PM1