All dailies need to reset at the same time

lillybit · March 2021

All the arguments for keeping the 20 timers miss the fact that pledges are already on a daily reset and don't suffer from any of the problems outlined.

People don't rush to do pledges as soon as reset happens or miss out forever. People aren't constantly complaining about being prevented from ever doing them because reset happens halfway through their playtime. I've spent a lot of time on these forums and seen a lot of complaints but never anything about how inconvenient it is that pledges reset daily.

Linaleah · March 2021

lillybit wrote: »

All the arguments for keeping the 20 timers miss the fact that pledges are already on a daily reset and don't suffer from any of the problems outlined.

People don't rush to do pledges as soon as reset happens or miss out forever. People aren't constantly complaining about being prevented from ever doing them because reset happens halfway through their playtime. I've spent a lot of time on these forums and seen a lot of complaints but never anything about how inconvenient it is that pledges reset daily.

all.

of.

THIS.

thank you.

Jacozilla · March 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

No thanks.

If I want to have once a day, can do that now by playing around same time each day, But 20hr timer allows for earlier play if get off work early for example.

Per char 20hr timer is fine for me.

20H timer is actually much more restrictive for being able to play earlier than reseting at 1 am.

Let's say you usually work from 8am to 6pm.

So you get off work at 6pm each day, and get straight on ESO. but today you got off work at 5pm, both timers will allow you to collect your rewards early.

Now let's say you called in sick because you feel like crap, and you just can't sleep anymore so you get on the game at 11am. You will not be able to collect a reward with the time 20h timer because you didn't wait until 2pm. The game doesn't tell you this, it just does it. If it was on a 1am reset, there's no issue. You get your reward.

In both scenarios, you get to play early with the 1am reset. In the 20H timer, you screwed yourself out of a reward even though you only played once each calendar day.

So unless you work the graveyard shift and get on close to 1am and have to go work not long after, or for people who don't have a job/school e.g. retirees and can follow these timers like clockwork, the daily reset time is more restrictive not less.

Well I’m certainly not speaking on behalf of anyone else. But for me, this one person, there is zero scenario in which a daily set time reset is better than 20hr.

I have lots of alts, 18 chars on main account, and 20hr timer allows me to get more random daily runs per week than a 24hr timer that resets at any given time.

spartaxoxo · March 2021

Jacozilla wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

No thanks.

If I want to have once a day, can do that now by playing around same time each day, But 20hr timer allows for earlier play if get off work early for example.

Per char 20hr timer is fine for me.

20H timer is actually much more restrictive for being able to play earlier than reseting at 1 am.

Let's say you usually work from 8am to 6pm.

So you get off work at 6pm each day, and get straight on ESO. but today you got off work at 5pm, both timers will allow you to collect your rewards early.

Now let's say you called in sick because you feel like crap, and you just can't sleep anymore so you get on the game at 11am. You will not be able to collect a reward with the time 20h timer because you didn't wait until 2pm. The game doesn't tell you this, it just does it. If it was on a 1am reset, there's no issue. You get your reward.

In both scenarios, you get to play early with the 1am reset. In the 20H timer, you screwed yourself out of a reward even though you only played once each calendar day.

So unless you work the graveyard shift and get on close to 1am and have to go work not long after, or for people who don't have a job/school e.g. retirees and can follow these timers like clockwork, the daily reset time is more restrictive not less.

Well I’m certainly not speaking on behalf of anyone else. But for me, this one person, there is zero scenario in which a daily set time reset is better than 20hr.

I have lots of alts, 18 chars on main account, and 20hr timer allows me to get more random daily runs per week than a 24hr timer that resets at any given time.

Helps you how? What times do you typically start and finish?

People keep stating this but then when they explain their situation the same reset timer has consistently been better. There seems to be a common misconception that there is a 24 hour cooldown on that timer and that is not the case. The daily reset time lets you do a daily anytime you want within a 24 hour period. The 20 hour timer places a cooldown on you from the moment you complete an activity, and once the timer is up you can do it again even if it's the same day.

Let's say you turned it in at 2am exactly. 20 hours later would be 10pm. Then let's say you managed to get on at this time and did a run with your guild and got rewarded. Your next timer would be 3pm. So you're used to doing things at exactly two because that's when you get off work, so when you wake up you do it again because it's avaiable. Guess what just happened? You missed a day's reward because you did it too early.

Meanwhile a daily reset just means, is it avaiable yes or no? If it's available you get it. If it's not, you don't. Easy peasy.

Linaleah · March 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

No thanks.

If I want to have once a day, can do that now by playing around same time each day, But 20hr timer allows for earlier play if get off work early for example.

Per char 20hr timer is fine for me.

20H timer is actually much more restrictive for being able to play earlier than reseting at 1 am.

Let's say you usually work from 8am to 6pm.

So you get off work at 6pm each day, and get straight on ESO. but today you got off work at 5pm, both timers will allow you to collect your rewards early.

Now let's say you called in sick because you feel like crap, and you just can't sleep anymore so you get on the game at 11am. You will not be able to collect a reward with the time 20h timer because you didn't wait until 2pm. The game doesn't tell you this, it just does it. If it was on a 1am reset, there's no issue. You get your reward.

In both scenarios, you get to play early with the 1am reset. In the 20H timer, you screwed yourself out of a reward even though you only played once each calendar day.

So unless you work the graveyard shift and get on close to 1am and have to go work not long after, or for people who don't have a job/school e.g. retirees and can follow these timers like clockwork, the daily reset time is more restrictive not less.

Well I’m certainly not speaking on behalf of anyone else. But for me, this one person, there is zero scenario in which a daily set time reset is better than 20hr.

I have lots of alts, 18 chars on main account, and 20hr timer allows me to get more random daily runs per week than a 24hr timer that resets at any given time.

Helps you how? What times do you typically start and finish?

People keep stating this but then when they explain their situation the same reset timer has consistently been better. There seems to be a common misconception that there is a 24 hour cooldown on that timer and that is not the case. The daily reset time lets you do a daily anytime you want within a 24 hour period. The 20 hour timer places a cooldown on you from the moment you complete an activity, and once the timer is up you can do it again even if it's the same day.

Let's say you turned it in at 2am exactly. 20 hours later would be 10pm. Then let's say you managed to get on at this time and did a run with your guild and got rewarded. Your next timer would be 3pm. So you're used to doing things at exactly two because that's when you get off work, so when you wake up you do it again because it's avaiable. Guess what just happened? You missed a day's reward because you did it too early.

Meanwhile a daily reset just means, is it avaiable yes or no? If it's available you get it. If it's not, you don't. Easy peasy.

it helps them in that they can do an extra set of dungeon runs per week due to running them every 20 hours instead of every 24 hours. however. the poster is an extreme minority of people that can schedule their play time around the clock without it interfering in their life. people with less flexible sleeping and otherwise schedules - are not so lucky. and are majority of the population who WOULD benefit from 24 hour reset rather then 20 hour cooldown

Jacozilla · March 2021

Linaleah wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

No thanks.

If I want to have once a day, can do that now by playing around same time each day, But 20hr timer allows for earlier play if get off work early for example.

Per char 20hr timer is fine for me.

20H timer is actually much more restrictive for being able to play earlier than reseting at 1 am.

Let's say you usually work from 8am to 6pm.

So you get off work at 6pm each day, and get straight on ESO. but today you got off work at 5pm, both timers will allow you to collect your rewards early.

Now let's say you called in sick because you feel like crap, and you just can't sleep anymore so you get on the game at 11am. You will not be able to collect a reward with the time 20h timer because you didn't wait until 2pm. The game doesn't tell you this, it just does it. If it was on a 1am reset, there's no issue. You get your reward.

In both scenarios, you get to play early with the 1am reset. In the 20H timer, you screwed yourself out of a reward even though you only played once each calendar day.

So unless you work the graveyard shift and get on close to 1am and have to go work not long after, or for people who don't have a job/school e.g. retirees and can follow these timers like clockwork, the daily reset time is more restrictive not less.

Well I’m certainly not speaking on behalf of anyone else. But for me, this one person, there is zero scenario in which a daily set time reset is better than 20hr.

I have lots of alts, 18 chars on main account, and 20hr timer allows me to get more random daily runs per week than a 24hr timer that resets at any given time.

Helps you how? What times do you typically start and finish?

People keep stating this but then when they explain their situation the same reset timer has consistently been better. There seems to be a common misconception that there is a 24 hour cooldown on that timer and that is not the case. The daily reset time lets you do a daily anytime you want within a 24 hour period. The 20 hour timer places a cooldown on you from the moment you complete an activity, and once the timer is up you can do it again even if it's the same day.

Let's say you turned it in at 2am exactly. 20 hours later would be 10pm. Then let's say you managed to get on at this time and did a run with your guild and got rewarded. Your next timer would be 3pm. So you're used to doing things at exactly two because that's when you get off work, so when you wake up you do it again because it's avaiable. Guess what just happened? You missed a day's reward because you did it too early.

Meanwhile a daily reset just means, is it avaiable yes or no? If it's available you get it. If it's not, you don't. Easy peasy.

it helps them in that they can do an extra set of dungeon runs per week due to running them every 20 hours instead of every 24 hours. however. the poster is an extreme minority of people that can schedule their play time around the clock without it interfering in their life. people with less flexible sleeping and otherwise schedules - are not so lucky. and are majority of the population who WOULD benefit from 24 hour reset rather then 20 hour cooldown

correct - but as the guy who replied let me further explain - it is true the opportunity advantage is only slight if you play only 1 char, but more chars you play, more the opportunity advantage of a 20hr timer provides.

Basic math - 7 day week has 168 hours, a timed server reset once a day would provide exactly 7 opportunities per 168hr week per character.

A 20hr reset provides 8.4 opportunities per 168hr week, but key point is PER character.

It is true you might have to schedule your life quite erratically to truly take advantage of this 1.4 extra opportunities per week, but that is if you only have 1 char. The more alts you have, the more likely one or more of them will be within the open window of an early opportunity (e.g. within the 20hr period rather than missing out because on 24hr period)

An account like mine, with max 18 chars, all fully geared, has in essence 18 x 1.4 = ~25 more opportunities per week.

Now, no way do I have the time nor inclination to be crazy enough to run 18 random dailies a day, but what I am saying is this ~25 more extra opportunities is rather generous....I may only take advantage of say 5, 10, maybe even dozen more - but point is with so many extra chances, the ease of using 5-10 more is lot easier.

e.g. it is a lot harder to run a modest 5-6x more a week when you have to time it within an extra opportunity window of only 5-6, vs fitting 5-6 more within an opportunity window of ~25.

Bottom line, and to strenuously repeat again - I don't and never have suggested this is for anyone else but me. This thread asked for an opinion, many gave ones contrary to mine, fine - all well and good. My opinion though is for me personally, there is no scenario in which a 20hr reset (current method) is not personally better for me than proposed 24hr one time a day server reset.

I can adapt to either method, but since thread asked - my personal answer remains unchanged.

iksde · March 2021

Jacozilla wrote: »

Basic math - 7 day week has 168 hours, a timed server reset once a day would provide exactly 7 opportunities per 168hr week per character.

A 20hr reset provides 8.4 opportunities per 168hr week, but key point is PER character.

It is true you might have to schedule your life quite erratically to truly take advantage of this 1.4 extra opportunities per week, but that is if you only have 1 char. The more alts you have, the more likely one or more of them will be within the open window of an early opportunity (e.g. within the 20hr period rather than missing out because on 24hr period)

An account like mine, with max 18 chars, all fully geared, has in essence 18 x 1.4 = ~25 more opportunities per week.

Now, no way do I have the time nor inclination to be crazy enough to run 18 random dailies a day, but what I am saying is this ~25 more extra opportunities is rather generous....I may only take advantage of say 5, 10, maybe even dozen more - but point is with so many extra chances, the ease of using 5-10 more is lot easier.

and so it is still - advantage onyl for people who have time or can play 24/7 because there is no way for anyone who wont have that time or who wont have regul shelude of life to take any advantage of this, it will still hinder it rather tgan giving advantage, people like that wont even play to much on alts or even if they will play on many alts- they wont play many of them at once, it will be more like this day this alt, next day other alt, next day another alt and on next day lets gte back to 1st character

more advantage of 20h reset system if you play more characters, this still keeps to be only for people with time for this in shortcut and so will exclude people with irregular shelude or/and wiht not so much time for playing anyway

doesnt matter how avaible alts people will have who would prefer universal daily reset, as they currently are hindered by 20h reset system they wont take any significant advantage of this by playing more than 1-2 characters at once than being able to just take most efficient for them universal daily limit, gving them option, chance, possibikity to actually be able to these dailys on daily

Hotdog_23 · March 2021

My personal schedule is a little irregular as well. Not as much as some people on the forums here. Worked 3rd shift and only family members work during the daytime so sleep and work schedules do vary to an extent.

That said I think the 20-hour timers is best overall for some things such as horse training and so forth. It does offer some flexibility vs. a static hard 24 hour reset. I do concede that a hard 24-hour timer does have its benefits as well.

Example say all resets are at 2am in the morning. Today I can play after 2am but tomorrow something in real life is going on and I can’t be on after 2am but can play say an hour or 2 earlier instead.

With a 20-hour rest I can say train my horse still and not miss out. The next day I can play but it’s not until after 2am. I too would miss out if the reset was a hard 24 hours. In short no system is perfect for everyone. If I had a vote in this and most assuredly don’t, I would vote on the shorter timer of 20-hour vs. 24-hour timer to offer a little more flexibility overall.

Plus, after thinking about it I really wish ZOS would add a tab in the UI that list all timers in the game. The system is keeping up with this information, but it is hidden from us. Our PC brothers and sister can use add-ons that help with this, but we console players are left out. I would think that PC players would also prefer a in game solution and not have to rely on a add-on that could causes problems down the road and erode performance.

Just my 2 cents.

Stay safe and enjoy the journey 😊

PS. ZOS stop the micromanagement of the green tree 🥺

FlopsyPrince · March 2021

I am convinced that some who post in the forums would object to any change, including having fewer blue screen crashes! "You can just restart the game. It gives you more time to think about the game!"

twev · March 2021

kargen27 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

McGordon wrote: »

Agree, have never understand why there are few things that resets at different times.

Those things reset depending on the time you (the player, not the character) first did them.
At least that's how it used to be back in the beta days. So, everybody had their own personal reset timer.

Not sure if that is still the case.

And with a 20 hour reset, those would drift overtime to the point that regular players that log on at the same time each day would eventually miss a full turn.

Nah if I did the daily at 10:00 it would be available at 6:00 the next day. If I do it again at 10:00 it is again available at 6:00. Your scenario assumes I do it earlier and earlier each day.

A 20 hour reset time for horse feeding just works out to an effective 24 hour reset for anyone who logs in at the same time every day.

I dont see the problem with it from that standpoint.
Are some people arguing that it should be a mandatory 24 hour reset for everyone? Because that makes little practical sense.

Jacozilla · March 2021

lillybit wrote: »

All the arguments for keeping the 20 timers miss the fact that pledges are already on a daily reset and don't suffer from any of the problems outlined.

People don't rush to do pledges as soon as reset happens or miss out forever. People aren't constantly complaining about being prevented from ever doing them because reset happens halfway through their playtime. I've spent a lot of time on these forums and seen a lot of complaints but never anything about how inconvenient it is that pledges reset daily.

False straw man argument you are raising - e.g. “ All the arguments for keeping the 20 timers miss the fact that pledges are already on a daily reset and don't suffer from any of the problems outlined”

Not a single person who stated prefer 20hr timer on this thread has mentioned one word that daily reset timers like pledges have “problems”. Just that of the two models, prefer 20hr individual char timer.

You are trying to insert a claim no one has made - no one has said pledge timers are broken or have problems and hence 20hr is better....just simple opinion of preference. You don’t have to be saying something is broken just because prefer another choice.

Sarannah · March 2021

lillybit wrote: »

All the arguments for keeping the 20 timers miss the fact that pledges are already on a daily reset and don't suffer from any of the problems outlined.

People don't rush to do pledges as soon as reset happens or miss out forever. People aren't constantly complaining about being prevented from ever doing them because reset happens halfway through their playtime. I've spent a lot of time on these forums and seen a lot of complaints but never anything about how inconvenient it is that pledges reset daily.

There is some MAJOR differences between the two. Pledges are end-game stuff, meaning it is mostly done by players who know what they are doing. Pledges also do not suffer from this set time, as you can still turn them in AFTER this timer has expired. There is no ceiling. If the daily random reset time would be at a set time, ZOS would be placing a ceiling on the random daily as it would expire. This can NEVER happen, because in that case some players would NEVER be able to complete a random dungeon.

Regular dailies resetting at a set time isn't an issue, because everyone can do those everytime. Nothing stops a person from doing them. Same with pledges, you can turn them in at any time after acquiring them.

If you only have two hours(or less) to do a daily random, and you are a bad player with long DPS queue's, suffer fake tanks, or get kicked often because you are new at the game, or do not know mechanics, etc. You would NEVER be able to complete your random dungeon for the day. As there is a limit to when it expires. A limit which isn't there with the 20h timer.

Stop thinking from your own experienced point of view, and look at it from a new or bad player's perspective. ZOS wants new players to stick around. Slapping a limit on a large group of players just because they play at a certain time, would chase many new players away. The 20h timer is best.

PS: I doubt anyone would ever do an extra daily random per week with the 4h intervals, as this is practically impossible to achieve.

Magdalina · March 2021

Sarannah wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

All the arguments for keeping the 20 timers miss the fact that pledges are already on a daily reset and don't suffer from any of the problems outlined.

People don't rush to do pledges as soon as reset happens or miss out forever. People aren't constantly complaining about being prevented from ever doing them because reset happens halfway through their playtime. I've spent a lot of time on these forums and seen a lot of complaints but never anything about how inconvenient it is that pledges reset daily.

There is some MAJOR differences between the two. Pledges are end-game stuff, meaning it is mostly done by players who know what they are doing. Pledges also do not suffer from this set time, as you can still turn them in AFTER this timer has expired. There is no ceiling. If the daily random reset time would be at a set time, ZOS would be placing a ceiling on the random daily as it would expire. This can NEVER happen, because in that case some players would NEVER be able to complete a random dungeon.

Regular dailies resetting at a set time isn't an issue, because everyone can do those everytime. Nothing stops a person from doing them. Same with pledges, you can turn them in at any time after acquiring them.

If you only have two hours(or less) to do a daily random, and you are a bad player with long DPS queue's, suffer fake tanks, or get kicked often because you are new at the game, or do not know mechanics, etc. You would NEVER be able to complete your random dungeon for the day. As there is a limit to when it expires. A limit which isn't there with the 20h timer.

Stop thinking from your own experienced point of view, and look at it from a new or bad player's perspective. ZOS wants new players to stick around. Slapping a limit on a large group of players just because they play at a certain time, would chase many new players away. The 20h timer is best.

PS: I doubt anyone would ever do an extra daily random per week with the 4h intervals, as this is practically impossible to achieve.

I think you misunderstand how ESO timers work. Daily quests and randoms and all the other good stuff don't count for dailies when you pick them up and somehow expire after that - they count upon COMPLETION, and at that point they count as 'completed' for the day when they get completed. Pledges and writs and WB and all the other daily reset-at-the-same-time do that as well, you may notice this if you take, say, EH2 pledge and don't do it (or do do it but don't give it in) until it's pledge again - in this case you'll get the pledge credit but you won't get a new pledge because you already completed your EH2 of the day. Same with writs - if you take writs and don't give them in for a couple days, you will of course get credit when you finally do give them in, but if at that point it's the same writs daily, you also won't be able to pick up new writs. Same thing for all the WB dailies etc.

Daily randoms are essentially a 'quest' that's always one and the same so they essentially work the same way - you get credit upon completion and it's the completion timer that goes into the database as the 'done at' timer. It's not counting your 20 hour timer from when you START, it's a 20 hour timer from when you FINISH. If you start a random while you're not eligible for max reward, but finish while you are, I'm 99% sure you will get it. So if it reset at set time as opposed to 20 hour timer, you'd still get credit the moment you finished, and if the reset timer happened somewhere during your random run, you'd simply get the credit for the next day. You would still get it, but you'd be unable to do another random for full reward until the next reset time since as far as the game is concerned, you've already done your random of the day.

There's 0 way with any system that you could start a random while being eligible for it and be unable to get credit for it as you finish (unless ZOS somehow screws up the code badly, which yes is possible but I don't think it's something to base decisions upon lol).

spartaxoxo · March 2021

Jacozilla wrote: »

Now, no way do I have the time nor inclination to be crazy enough to run 18 random dailies a day

But if you're not doing that then you're not actually getting these extra opportunities? The only way to take advantage of that opportunity is if you ARE strictly keeping track of timers. And doing more runs than you have alts. If you're just spamming alts at it, and hoping one of them can do the quest, you're not actually getting more runs.

Otherwise 5 runs on 5 toons is the same exaxt number of runs as 5 runs on 4 toons. Only the former comes with always knowing you can collect every reward you're eligible for without worry. And the latter means you can manage a timer for 20 hours so you can use the same toon again.

It sounds more like your benefit is entirely theoretical and that in actual practice, this makes no difference because you have so many toons that you'll always have a toon you can run whenever you want regardless of the timer.

You simply have too many toons to be effected by either system

spartaxoxo · March 2021

Sarannah wrote: »

. You would NEVER be able to complete your random dungeon for the day. As there is a limit to when it expires. A limit which isn't there with the 20h timer.

That is 100% incorrect. Let's say you did your random daily at 12am, hoping to turn it in before 1am before the reset, but failed and turned it in at 1:30am. You'd get the reward for that new day.

Nobody is asking for rewards to be erased after accomplishing them, and there is no scenario that zos would allow that to happen. It would literally be no different than the pledge, with the only exception being you wouldn't be able to pick up a new random until the next day.

Rewards are always generated when you complete something, not when you start.

Sarannah wrote: »

PS: I doubt anyone would ever do an extra daily random per week with the 4h intervals, as this is practically impossible to achieve

...Which is why people are asking for it to reset at the same time. Because this benefit is essentially impossible for the vast majority of people.

Therefore in actual practice their choice is between a hard to manage moving time, or a fixed time that is easy to manage.

Sarannah · March 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

. You would NEVER be able to complete your random dungeon for the day. As there is a limit to when it expires. A limit which isn't there with the 20h timer.

That is 100% incorrect. Let's say you did your random daily at 12am, hoping to turn it in before 1am before the reset, but failed and turned it in at 1:30am. You'd get the reward for that new day.

Nobody is asking for rewards to be erased after accomplishing them, and there is no scenario that zos would allow that to happen. It would literally be no different than the pledge, with the only exception being you wouldn't be able to pick up a new random until the next day.

Rewards are always generated when you complete something, not when you start.

But that is the entire issue of the thread isn't it?... players missing out on a day of dailies. So if, as you also state with a set dailyreset timer players would miss a day of random rewards, that is the same issue as we are discussing. And if those players were to wait till after the reset, they would miss that daily random reward entirely. As there won't be enough time for them to complete it after the resettimer. (this besides the fact that the game would then be dictating players in certain timeslots when they need to do their randoms)

So it comes down to who is more affected, those with irregular schedules, or those who play around a set randomreset time if there was one. My guess is there are more players playing at any given time, than there are with irregular schedules. Which explains ZOS's choice.

And for the record it is correct what I am stating. If a player is unable to complete the daily before the reset, and has too little time to complete it after the reset, they miss out on a daily random reward every other day. Which is exactly the issue in the OP.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

PS: I doubt anyone would ever do an extra daily random per week with the 4h intervals, as this is practically impossible to achieve

...Which is why people are asking for it to reset at the same time. Because this benefit is essentially impossible for the vast majority of people.

Therefore in actual practice their choice is between a hard to manage moving time, or a fixed time that is easy to manage.

A set daily resettimer would affect everyone playing in the timeslot where the resettimer is being placed. Versus those affected by irregular schedules. And I assume ZOS made their choice, based on which is more convenient for most players. Seems more likely as well, that there would be more players playing in any certain timeslot, then there there would be players with irregular schedules.

PS: The 4h benefitgap really isn't a realistic benefit. Yes, some players could do a daily more every week, but practically with maintenance and sleep, this is impossible.

Kel · March 2021

Let's put this in a way ZoS understands.

How much server lag is caused by the timer checks needed on every single character for a simple daily reset timer? Talking about keeping track of thousands of characters over the server for various different activities.

Could be easily tracked by a single daily reset time.

waterfairy · March 2021

Kel wrote: »

Let's put this in a way ZoS understands.

How much server lag is caused by the timer checks needed on every single character for a simple daily reset timer? Talking about keeping track of thousands of characters over the server for various different activities.

Could be easily tracked by a single daily reset time.

this too...they were so worried about the checks in cyro for a portion of the player base they overlooked the timers that most players are on for each 1 of their characters.

It never ceases to amaze how the people who call the shots are so disconnected from the game

Magdalina · March 2021

Sarannah wrote: »

A set daily resettimer would affect everyone playing in the timeslot where the resettimer is being placed. Versus those affected by irregular schedules. And I assume ZOS made their choice, based on which is more convenient for most players. Seems more likely as well, that there would be more players playing in any certain timeslot, then there there would be players with irregular schedules.

PS: The 4h benefitgap really isn't a realistic benefit. Yes, some players could do a daily more every week, but practically with maintenance and sleep, this is impossible.

I don't think ZOS made a thought-out choice on this, because there's 0 way the current system benefits people more than a set reset timer would (UNLESS we take into account people who can legit play 24/7 and thus take advantage of the 4 hours gap, and deem these people the core audience. But even you admit it's unrealistic). The only people who might miss out on randoms with a set reset time (and even then, not ALL randoms, just SOME randoms) are the people who'd always be playing at the same time - right around reset time - and for a very limited time at that. So...anyone else, who

1) plays for a longer period of time always right around reset time
2) plays for a very limited time, but at irregular schedule
3) plays for a very limited time and always at the same set time but that time is not around reset time
4) plays for a longer period of time with an irregular time schedule
5) plays for a longer period of time always at the same set time but that time is not around reset time
(and any other ocombinations I may have missed)

would majorly benefit from this. Seriously, you can't possibly imply that there're more people playing at one single 1-2 hour time window (and it's generally a time window that's an off time for most of NA community at that) every day than there are people playing at literally ANY other time window.

spartaxoxo · March 2021

Sarannah wrote: »

You would
But that is the entire issue of the thread isn't it?... players missing out on a day of dailies.

Yes. But that's only possible because of the cooldown, which is why people are asking for it to be removed. With a random reset timer, it is possible to pick up an quest and not get the rewars. With a daily reset it is not. Thats the benefit of the daily reset.

Sarannah wrote: »

So if, as you also state with a set dailyreset timer players would miss a day of random rewards, that is the same issue as we are discussing. And if those players were to wait till after the reset, they would miss that daily random reward entirely.

Yes

So it comes down to who is more affected, those with irregular schedules, or those who play around a set randomreset time if there was one. My guess is there are more players playing at any given time, than there are with irregular schedules. Which explains ZOS's choice.

No. It doesn't because a daily reset happens different than a timer. There are only two groups that benefit from the random timer. Those who play close to the reset time (which is during low population times for ZOS. They specifically have the daily reset timer at a time when the population is low) and those who can who do their daily, wait 20 hours, and do their daily again because they have their entire life wide open. Even irregular schedules don't have that.

And for the record it is correct what I am stating. If a player is unable to complete the daily before the reset, and has too little time to complete it after the reset, they miss out on a daily random reward every other day. Which is exactly the issue in the OP.

No. It is not. You were 100% incorrect. There is NO scenario in which you can complete a random daily and NEVER get a reward, which is what you stated.

You would NEVER be able to complete your random dungeon for the day. As there is a limit to when it expires. A limit which isn't there with the 20h timer.

This is literally impossible. It's not up for discussion, it's a fact about how the game works. You will never in this game experience a timer that makes so you never get to complete it, no matter the system. That is just not true.

If you never complete something because you don't do the content, be it due to a lack of skill or time or interest, then you won't get rewarded. But that has NOTHING to do with timers.

This is just completely wrong.

Jacozilla · March 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

Now, no way do I have the time nor inclination to be crazy enough to run 18 random dailies a day

But if you're not doing that then you're not actually getting these extra opportunities? The only way to take advantage of that opportunity is if you ARE strictly keeping track of timers. And doing more runs than you have alts. If you're just spamming alts at it, and hoping one of them can do the quest, you're not actually getting more runs.

Otherwise 5 runs on 5 toons is the same exaxt number of runs as 5 runs on 4 toons. Only the former comes with always knowing you can collect every reward you're eligible for without worry. And the latter means you can manage a timer for 20 hours so you can use the same toon again.

It sounds more like your benefit is entirely theoretical and that in actual practice, this makes no difference because you have so many toons that you'll always have a toon you can run whenever you want regardless of the timer.

You simply have too many toons to be effected by either system

Not sure why some ppl seem so invested in proving my repeatedly stated applies only to me personal preference to be incorrect. Hoped you would take at face value the hard to misunderstand statement I've made twice now - there is NO scenario in which 20hr timer is not better for me. Period. This applies to no other person and made no claims it should - just me.

To be explicit though since you seem to require 'proof' although simple p-stat of 18chars x 1.4 more extra opportunities per week or ~100 more chances per month should be at minimum intuitively understood to benefit just out of random chance.

So, I have 18 chars on main account. While I enjoy each for different reasons, should not be shock that like many, some alts I like lot more than others. On avg, I will do ~49-60 random normals per week, sometimes bit more or less but on avg 7 per day with option to do few more if feel like it. And if possible I prefer doing them on my 'main' 7 alts.

As I play every char able to heal, not fake heal - I mean full heal sets, heal bars, etc - my queue times are nil to quite short. So my dungeon timers are the limiting factor, not queue time. Running 7-8 randoms per day takes my less than ~2hrs usually, and my daily work schedule is so flexible I can essentially play whenever I want other than specific scheduled conference times with clients. I live in PST zone, officer hours on EST, and client hours on Oceanic asia/pacific times. TLDR - my personal & work schedule is wildly erratic (but works for me).

Therefore, when seeing if random normal is available (use addon so simple 1 screen check to view timers), I check to see which of my 18 chars is open, and prefer main 7 chars, and if not = only then go on to 8th+ choice. It is true because I don't run 18 randoms per day, I will have some char available to run whether it is a 24hr reset or 20hr timer. But a 24hr reset would make me use a non-favorite alt over a favored alt more times than a 20hr timer.

On the 20hr timer, I literally can see right in front of me every day, every week, the times one of my preferred 7 chars is available 'early', as in I ran the random 20hrs ago, 21hrs ago, 22hrs ago, etc - and would not be available to run on 24hr reset but am available on 20hr reset. In fact, many times per week I will see 2-3 of my favored chars with times that are 20min away from resetting, or ~1-2 hrs.

Which means I can do randoms first on my unlocked main alts, then by time they are done, my 2-3 others will now be unlocked.

To repeat again - there is zero scenario in which the 20hr individual per char timer does not benefit me more, by a lot, than a server wide 24hr reset. As I said before - I can adapt to either, I don't hate the 24hr server reset, and make no claims anyone should feel anything other than their opinion on either model. Simply as the entire OP of this thread asked - my personal preference is 20hr timer over server reset. Period.

lillybit · March 2021

Jacozilla wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

Now, no way do I have the time nor inclination to be crazy enough to run 18 random dailies a day

But if you're not doing that then you're not actually getting these extra opportunities? The only way to take advantage of that opportunity is if you ARE strictly keeping track of timers. And doing more runs than you have alts. If you're just spamming alts at it, and hoping one of them can do the quest, you're not actually getting more runs.

Otherwise 5 runs on 5 toons is the same exaxt number of runs as 5 runs on 4 toons. Only the former comes with always knowing you can collect every reward you're eligible for without worry. And the latter means you can manage a timer for 20 hours so you can use the same toon again.

It sounds more like your benefit is entirely theoretical and that in actual practice, this makes no difference because you have so many toons that you'll always have a toon you can run whenever you want regardless of the timer.

You simply have too many toons to be effected by either system

Not sure why some ppl seem so invested in proving my repeatedly stated applies only to me personal preference to be incorrect. Hoped you would take at face value the hard to misunderstand statement I've made twice now - there is NO scenario in which 20hr timer is not better for me. Period. This applies to no other person and made no claims it should - just me.

To be explicit though since you seem to require 'proof' although simple p-stat of 18chars x 1.4 more extra opportunities per week or ~100 more chances per month should be at minimum intuitively understood to benefit just out of random chance.

So, I have 18 chars on main account. While I enjoy each for different reasons, should not be shock that like many, some alts I like lot more than others. On avg, I will do ~49-60 random normals per week, sometimes bit more or less but on avg 7 per day with option to do few more if feel like it. And if possible I prefer doing them on my 'main' 7 alts.

As I play every char able to heal, not fake heal - I mean full heal sets, heal bars, etc - my queue times are nil to quite short. So my dungeon timers are the limiting factor, not queue time. Running 7-8 randoms per day takes my less than ~2hrs usually, and my daily work schedule is so flexible I can essentially play whenever I want other than specific scheduled conference times with clients. I live in PST zone, officer hours on EST, and client hours on Oceanic asia/pacific times. TLDR - my personal & work schedule is wildly erratic (but works for me).

Therefore, when seeing if random normal is available (use addon so simple 1 screen check to view timers), I check to see which of my 18 chars is open, and prefer main 7 chars, and if not = only then go on to 8th+ choice. It is true because I don't run 18 randoms per day, I will have some char available to run whether it is a 24hr reset or 20hr timer. But a 24hr reset would make me use a non-favorite alt over a favored alt more times than a 20hr timer.

On the 20hr timer, I literally can see right in front of me every day, every week, the times one of my preferred 7 chars is available 'early', as in I ran the random 20hrs ago, 21hrs ago, 22hrs ago, etc - and would not be available to run on 24hr reset but am available on 20hr reset. In fact, many times per week I will see 2-3 of my favored chars with times that are 20min away from resetting, or ~1-2 hrs.

Which means I can do randoms first on my unlocked main alts, then by time they are done, my 2-3 others will now be unlocked.

To repeat again - there is zero scenario in which the 20hr individual per char timer does not benefit me more, by a lot, than a server wide 24hr reset. As I said before - I can adapt to either, I don't hate the 24hr server reset, and make no claims anyone should feel anything other than their opinion on either model. Simply as the entire OP of this thread asked - my personal preference is 20hr timer over server reset. Period.

Your perceived advantage is exactly that - your perception. WIth 18 characters and a daily reset you could do 126 random in a week with full rewards. Unless you're doing more than that, you've lost nothing. The only downside to a daily reset is maybe having to use a different character once in a blue moon. You've said yourself you don't run on all your characters every day so you should always have alts available.

You run 49-60 dailies currenty and could easily continue to do so. Nothing would change for you.

renne · March 2021

If the daily timer reset halfway through your play time and you couldn't POSSIBLY fit everything in before, you'd adjust and shift to doing half of it after the reset and half of it before.

spartaxoxo · March 2021

Jacozilla wrote: »

In fact, many times per week I will see 2-3 of my favored chars with times that are 20min away from resetting, or ~1-2 hrs.

Nobody is saying you have to prefer one reward to another, just pointing out that your statement earlier did not actually point to any benefits you were actually receiving from the 20 hour timer.

If someone asks you "What benefits are you receiving" and you respond "Well I don't use them, but I have them on paper!" Then it's not trying to dissuade you from personal preference to let you know that you're not actually using your benefits and that they are paper only.

Your earlier statement about being benefited because you have a lot of alts simply doesn't qualify as benefiting from the 20 hour timer. That's all. Having a ton of alts that you run them on, just to always have one available when you feel like it, is a factor that inherently erases the missed reward drawbacks of both timers. It makes you have too many alts to be impacted by the actual management aspects. 5 reward packages is 5 reward packages whether it comes from 5 characters or 4 characters.

You say you use an add-on so that you can actually keep track of 20 hours so you can use the same character twice, which was already acknowledged as something you'd need to do to actually benefit. So congratulations you actually are benefiting from the 20 hour timer. It's not because you have so many alts, but because you're keeping track of the 20 hour timer so that you can do it an extra time.

BTW
It's actually BECAUSE you have no time constraints, automated micromanagement, and no reward constraints because of separate stuff that your personal perception is that you benefit more from the 20 hour timer. You can place value on the non-tangible benefits such as being able to play on alt you actually like because you have freed yourself from the drawbacks of either system.

Linaleah · March 2021

here is a fun little personal anecdote. I'm currently leveling mounts on 2 characters. yesterday we lost power for most of the day (weather issues, nothing I could do). they managed to get it working again just before the daily reset (pledge etc dailies anyways) it went out before my 20 hour horse leveling cooldown was up so I couldn't level the horses in advance. I did level them once the power went back up, but I'm now entire day behind anyways. if we had 24 hour RESET? I would have been still on schedule. but because we have a 20 hour cooldown on some things? I am behind.

and yes, i will continue calling cooldown because that is what it is. reset allows you to do whatever it is you want to do at ANY point within those 24 hours. 20 cooldown we have? you have to wait until its up. so functionally it is NOT the same, even if you normally log in at the same time every day.

and its not just mounts. rewards of the worthy, IC containers - they all have that 20 hour cooldown and you cannot even track it unless you keep a diligent spreadsheet. (especially on a console)

24 hour reset will benefit the most people. even those who think they will not benefit from it.

the ONLY people who are not going to benefit from it are the diligent spreadsheet keepers that make sure to log in ever 20 hours to keep moving their reward earlier and earlier to get a extra reward once a week. (occasionally I'm even that person myself with things like boxes) and you know what? I'm ok with it. because majority of us will benefit from increased flexibility that 24 hour reset provides.

Jacozilla · March 2021

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

In fact, many times per week I will see 2-3 of my favored chars with times that are 20min away from resetting, or ~1-2 hrs.

Nobody is saying you have to prefer one reward to another, just pointing out that your statement earlier did not actually point to any benefits you were actually receiving from the 20 hour timer.

If someone asks you "What benefits are you receiving" and you respond "Well I don't use them, but I have them on paper!" Then it's not trying to dissuade you from personal preference to let you know that you're not actually using your benefits and that they are paper only.

Your earlier statement about being benefited because you have a lot of alts simply doesn't qualify as benefiting from the 20 hour timer. That's all. Having a ton of alts that you run them on, just to always have one available when you feel like it, is a factor that inherently erases the missed reward drawbacks of both timers. It makes you have too many alts to be impacted by the actual management aspects. 5 reward packages is 5 reward packages whether it comes from 5 characters or 4 characters.

You say you use an add-on so that you can actually keep track of 20 hours so you can use the same character twice, which was already acknowledged as something you'd need to do to actually benefit. So congratulations you actually are benefiting from the 20 hour timer. It's not because you have so many alts, but because you're keeping track of the 20 hour timer so that you can do it an extra time.

BTW
It's actually BECAUSE you have no time constraints, automated micromanagement, and no reward constraints because of separate stuff that your personal perception is that you benefit more from the 20 hour timer. You can place value on the non-tangible benefits such as being able to play on alt you actually like because you have freed yourself from the drawbacks of either system.

I didn't respond with novel length full detail breakdown of my rationale why I prefer 20hr timer because generally when you state only your personal preference, explicitly state does not apply nor should it for anyone else, then extensive details are not needed.

Do you prefer chicken or fish? Chicken. Do I need to explain I don't dislike fish, find nothing wrong with it, and if others prefer it - great?

If I had stated something more broad - like, 'hey 20hr timers are better than 24hr server reset', or assumed the opinion of anyone else but mine - e.g. 'hey, if you don't prefer 20hr timers there is something clearly wrong with you' - then indeed I am obligated to support with details such a broad and assumptive statement.

So at first my response to OP re: changing to 24hr server reset was as simple as no thanks, prefer 20hr timer. Then it was no thanks, prefer 20hr timer because under no scenario is 24hr reset better, I prefer 20hr but can adapt and live with either.

Yet this was not enough for some ppl - it wasn't enough I didn't merely disagree with their cherished opinion, but I somehow must be 'wrong' and if only I were 'educated' correctly why my choice is clearly wrong, then I'd be all for 24hr reset.

And yes my earlier simple statement of my total of 18 chars on simple probability benefiting from 20hr timer still stands - because without even paying attention to my exact time last done random daily, with the additional number of opportunities per char per week a 20hr timer allows - ~25 more to be exact, the odds I pick any 4-5 chars that have already run the daily yesterday, but am within the 'early' 4 hour period to allow me to go again is significantly greater than a 24hr server reset.

Jacozilla · March 2021

lillybit wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

Now, no way do I have the time nor inclination to be crazy enough to run 18 random dailies a day

But if you're not doing that then you're not actually getting these extra opportunities? The only way to take advantage of that opportunity is if you ARE strictly keeping track of timers. And doing more runs than you have alts. If you're just spamming alts at it, and hoping one of them can do the quest, you're not actually getting more runs.

Otherwise 5 runs on 5 toons is the same exaxt number of runs as 5 runs on 4 toons. Only the former comes with always knowing you can collect every reward you're eligible for without worry. And the latter means you can manage a timer for 20 hours so you can use the same toon again.

It sounds more like your benefit is entirely theoretical and that in actual practice, this makes no difference because you have so many toons that you'll always have a toon you can run whenever you want regardless of the timer.

You simply have too many toons to be effected by either system

Not sure why some ppl seem so invested in proving my repeatedly stated applies only to me personal preference to be incorrect. Hoped you would take at face value the hard to misunderstand statement I've made twice now - there is NO scenario in which 20hr timer is not better for me. Period. This applies to no other person and made no claims it should - just me.

To be explicit though since you seem to require 'proof' although simple p-stat of 18chars x 1.4 more extra opportunities per week or ~100 more chances per month should be at minimum intuitively understood to benefit just out of random chance.

So, I have 18 chars on main account. While I enjoy each for different reasons, should not be shock that like many, some alts I like lot more than others. On avg, I will do ~49-60 random normals per week, sometimes bit more or less but on avg 7 per day with option to do few more if feel like it. And if possible I prefer doing them on my 'main' 7 alts.

As I play every char able to heal, not fake heal - I mean full heal sets, heal bars, etc - my queue times are nil to quite short. So my dungeon timers are the limiting factor, not queue time. Running 7-8 randoms per day takes my less than ~2hrs usually, and my daily work schedule is so flexible I can essentially play whenever I want other than specific scheduled conference times with clients. I live in PST zone, officer hours on EST, and client hours on Oceanic asia/pacific times. TLDR - my personal & work schedule is wildly erratic (but works for me).

Therefore, when seeing if random normal is available (use addon so simple 1 screen check to view timers), I check to see which of my 18 chars is open, and prefer main 7 chars, and if not = only then go on to 8th+ choice. It is true because I don't run 18 randoms per day, I will have some char available to run whether it is a 24hr reset or 20hr timer. But a 24hr reset would make me use a non-favorite alt over a favored alt more times than a 20hr timer.

On the 20hr timer, I literally can see right in front of me every day, every week, the times one of my preferred 7 chars is available 'early', as in I ran the random 20hrs ago, 21hrs ago, 22hrs ago, etc - and would not be available to run on 24hr reset but am available on 20hr reset. In fact, many times per week I will see 2-3 of my favored chars with times that are 20min away from resetting, or ~1-2 hrs.

Which means I can do randoms first on my unlocked main alts, then by time they are done, my 2-3 others will now be unlocked.

To repeat again - there is zero scenario in which the 20hr individual per char timer does not benefit me more, by a lot, than a server wide 24hr reset. As I said before - I can adapt to either, I don't hate the 24hr server reset, and make no claims anyone should feel anything other than their opinion on either model. Simply as the entire OP of this thread asked - my personal preference is 20hr timer over server reset. Period.

Your perceived advantage is exactly that - your perception. WIth 18 characters and a daily reset you could do 126 random in a week with full rewards. Unless you're doing more than that, you've lost nothing. The only downside to a daily reset is maybe having to use a different character once in a blue moon. You've said yourself you don't run on all your characters every day so you should always have alts available.

You run 49-60 dailies currenty and could easily continue to do so. Nothing would change for you.

Clearly didn't read my response - you say I would lose nothing on a 24hr reset because you are only counting total # of randoms done regardless of char.

Yes, if my only criteria was can I do 18 randoms a day, then it would be same with 20 vs 24 hr timer. But as my detailed response explicitly noted, I favor 7 of my 18 chars - so what I would lose is at minimum a couple opportunities to do an 'early' daily with a few of those alts.

You are inserting an argument I never made - e.g. can I still do 18 randoms a day. The point I made and stick to is a 20hr window gives a 4-hr period that each day you can do the daily earlier than the prior day, on that char. This allows essentially fitting in more randoms with a pool of selected chars each week.

spartaxoxo · March 2021

I didn't respond with novel length full detail breakdown of my rationale why I prefer 20hr timer because generally when you state only your personal preference, explicitly state does not apply nor should it for anyone else, then extensive details are not needed

Realistically, you're in a discussion forum where people are discussing the pros and cons of a system as they are actually practiced. Pointing out that what you described is an on paper benefit only is in no way meant to invalidate your preference. Only to point out what as an actual benefit and what is a paper one.

If people aren't gonna discuss the things you state that are actually debatable, then what else would you expect them to discuss?

Cirantille · March 2021

That would be such a lovely thing I have been looking forward to pleasee

Sarannah · March 2021

There would actually be another problem with a set dailyrandom resettimer. When taking multiple characters through randoms, there would be a limit to how/when a person can do this. You can't always predict how things will go in a random, so placing a set resettimer on when the day expires would make this a horrible ceiling to place on a random reward.

For example: Four hours to play, and four characters to do the daily randoms on. The daily randomreset is placed at half that point. Since you do not know how long a dungeon will take, or if you will even be able to complete one. Which means the logical step would be to do two characters before, and two after the reset. However, if you are unable to complete those dungeons you planned to do before the reset(for whatever reason), you would miss out on atleast one(or more) daily random rewards. And you might even be unable to complete the randoms you planned to do after the reset, since you only have two hours after the dailyreset.

This could result in never being able to complete randomdailies, depending on timezone and luck with grouping. Whereas the 20h timer does not place a ceiling/timelimit on when you can do the dailies. The 20h timer only sets a minimumtime after which you can grab your next daily randomreward whenever.

This came to me today when I was running randoms. I thought about how awful it would be if the daily randomrewards would reset anywhere during my playtime. I would never know when my characters would be on time with getting the reward, or when they would be too late. It would force me to either start the randoms later at an inconvenient time(after reset), or it would make me rush through dungeons just to be in time for the reset. And in most cases it would be both of those things.

The 20h timer is the only way to go, to be honest. Fine, as it is.