Jeremy wrote: »

A bug... I hope.

If not, this is just a silly, pointless, and frustrating change. I'm not going to sit around and play hide and seek at a chest for a whopping 200 gold.

Are you trying to do this in heavy armour ?

I was going to ask the same thing. Are you wearing Heavy Armor? Check the passives, after the update they now increase your detection radius. You can now be 'Heard' even if you are Crouch-Hidden or invisible at a greater distance, which I've read results in being detected.

I can confirm it was wearing Heavy Armor that was causing this. So if anyone is wondering why NPCs are spotting them now when they go to loot a safebox after they use an invisible potion, Heavy Armor is the reason.

I still don't know if it's a bug or intended though... since Invisible is suppose to be (or at least it was in the past) unaffected by stealth detection. So I'm guessing it's a bug. Would be nice if a ZoS employee could chime in and say whether or not this was an intended change. I hope not, because otherwise this change is measly. Wasting 30 points into Out of Sight seemed to help... but they will still see you if they are too close. So it's best just to take all your armor off before you use the potion, which is very stupid. haha

So I'm hoping this doesn't become a new part of the gameplay... forcing heavy armor users to unequip all their armor first... before they can effectively use their invisible potions. Because that is just beyond obnoxious and silly.

allhailskippy wrote: »

I can't imagine this is an intentional change. If so, what's the point of being invisible?

Haven't you ever seen those "invisible man" movies where the person is detected because he makes a noise or even speaks, picks up an object, sits in a chair and creates an indentation, etc., even though he's invisible? "Out of sight" isn't the same as "can't be detected."

As a heavy armor enthusiast and compulsive looter, I do find the change to be a bit of a bother, but they're also logical and in line with how heavy armor affects sneaking in some of the other Elder Scrolls games. I'll adapt, if only because I must. But I do wonder how the passive changes interact with sets and perks that decrease your radius of detectability.

I think the main reason we heavy armor enthusiasts are annoyed by the change is because we'd gotten used to the way heavy armor was defying the reality of some squeaky-clanky knight in a suit of armor trying to stealthily tip-toe past someone. In a fictional world where the existence of invisibility spells and potions is common knowledge, it would make sense that NPCs are probably on the lookout for unexplained clanks.

allhailskippy wrote: »

I can't imagine this is an intentional change. If so, what's the point of being invisible?

Yeah, it's pretty dumb I would agree.

It's not just NPCs either that will see you if you use invisible with heavy armor. Enemies will see you as well.

Jeremy wrote: »

Yeah, I was in heavy armor. I didn't know stealth detection affected you while you were under the effects of a invisible potion though, which I thought was different than stealth. I'll have to test this later wearing light or medium armor and see if that's what's causing it. So thanks for the suggestion.

An invisibility potion sets your base stealth detect radius to 0. Your heavy armour increases it. Some racial/skill/cp things send it the other way. In fact in the right gear a Khajiit is basically invisible anyway.

I think it still makes for the PvE vibe but it's how the mechanic works and it makes a lot of sense in PvP. Dressing room is your friend if you have addons, console users.. ah well 8)

allhailskippy wrote: »

That would make more sense if the world wasn't full of magic.

Even so, it is a potion of invisibility, not a potion of prevent detection.

VoodooPlatypus wrote: »

Can confirm this change.

I have two vamps. One is a magblade and I noticed no difference for him. Of course he’s in all light armor. The other is a tank who was only recently turned undead. With him I kept being detected while dashing through delves. Assumed it was lag at first and then realized it might be his armor.

I get that it’s more realistic. I’m not a fan of the change though since the whole reason I took him to stage 4 is that he’s crap for DPS and I was just trying to quickly knock out a daily by speed-sneaking him to the objective and fighting as little as possible.

Oh well. I’ll survive. Adaptation is king.

People will adapt, you're right. They'll stop playing tanks in PvE even more than they already have. Which is just what this game needed after all, one more reason not to play as a tank.

I guess they still aren't rare enough to make the developers happy. I wonder what will be? Because I'm starting to think total extinction is the goal.

Jeremy wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Actually taking stuff from the chest breaks stealth, correct?

Stealth, yes. But not invisibility from potions. Or at least that used to be the way it worked.

It used to leave you invisible as long as you didn't fail trying to open a chest. No idea what it does now.

Jeremy wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

So I tested.
With the rest light, invisibility works up to:
1 heavy with 0 CP in Out of Sight
2 heavy with 10 CP in Out of Sight
3 heavy with 20 CP in Out of Sight
4 heavy with 30 CP in Out of Sight

With just 1 medium and 2 points in Improved sneak, invisibility works with up to 6 heavy with 0 CP in Out of Sight.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for taking the time to do some testing. But invisible did not work for me with 6 heavy and 1 medium with 2 points into improved sneak. NPCs were still able to see me. Even with 30 points into Out of Sight (on top of the 2 points into improved sneak) they were still able to see me while wearing 6 heavy and 1 medium. Even wearing 2 medium (along with Out of Sigh and Improved Sneak) did not work.

I'm guessing you might be a Khajit or something and perhaps that is to account for the discrepancy? Because otherwise it seems to me they ______ Heavy Armor users out of being able to use invisible effectively.

I hope it's a bug... though I'm starting to really doubt it is since invisible worked just fine when I stripped my character of all his armor and looted the safebox naked. So this really is an obnoxious change in my opinion. I'm so much looking forward to having to take all my clothes off every time I want my invisible potions to actually make me invisible. Such an awesome addition and added feature to the gameplay. I cannot wait.

You know what, that might be it. I first noticed an issue on an Orc NB, turns out I had the wrong morph of cloak.

I did the light armor test on an Argonian Vampire, I don't think any vampire passives affect detection, and I was stage one.

I did the med armour test on a Khajiit DK Thieves Guild character. I checked TG passives, but not the racials. Apologies, I will note it.

Additional test info: I used invisible pots, and tested on alligators in Shadowfen. I tried to make sure I wasn't crouched before approaching. I drank the potion just outside of aggro range, and determined success if I could litterally stand on its snout for a couple seconds without generating aggro.

driosketch wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

So I tested.
With the rest light, invisibility works up to:
1 heavy with 0 CP in Out of Sight
2 heavy with 10 CP in Out of Sight
3 heavy with 20 CP in Out of Sight
4 heavy with 30 CP in Out of Sight

With just 1 medium and 2 points in Improved sneak, invisibility works with up to 6 heavy with 0 CP in Out of Sight.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for taking the time to do some testing. But invisible did not work for me with 6 heavy and 1 medium with 2 points into improved sneak. NPCs were still able to see me. Even with 30 points into Out of Sight (on top of the 2 points into improved sneak) they were still able to see me while wearing 6 heavy and 1 medium. Even wearing 2 medium (along with Out of Sigh and Improved Sneak) did not work.

I'm guessing you might be a Khajit or something and perhaps that is to account for the discrepancy? Because otherwise it seems to me they ______ Heavy Armor users out of being able to use invisible effectively.

I hope it's a bug... though I'm starting to really doubt it is since invisible worked just fine when I stripped my character of all his armor and looted the safebox naked. So this really is an obnoxious change in my opinion. I'm so much looking forward to having to take all my clothes off every time I want my invisible potions to actually make me invisible. Such an awesome addition and added feature to the gameplay. I cannot wait.

You know what, that might be it. I first noticed an issue on an Orc NB, turns out I had the wrong morph of cloak.

I did the light armor test on an Argonian Vampire, I don't think any vampire passives affect detection, and I was stage one.

I did the med armour test on a Khajiit DK Thieves Guild character. I checked TG passives, but not the racials. Apologies, I will note it.

Additional test info: I used invisible pots, and tested on alligators in Shadowfen. I tried to make sure I wasn't crouched before approaching. I drank the potion just outside of aggro range, and determined success if I could litterally stand on its snout for a couple seconds without generating aggro.

I'm not sure how enemies work in relation to invisible. It seems sometimes they will detect me yet still not aggro me. So that might be what is happening in your test.

I would try testing it with safeboxes and opening them after using an invisible potion while an NPC is near and see if you get a bounty put on you. Going into a restricted area and testing it there against NPC guards might also be a good way to test detection since that also puts a bounty on you. But I haven't tested that yet so I can't say for certain.

Tests done on PTS with cloak and vampire invisibility but we can asume it will work the same way with invisibility potions.

1. Medium armor doesn't cancel heavy armor penalty so equiping 1 pc medium armor gives nothing, even equiping 5 pc of medium armor didn't took any effect.
2. You can say each heavy armor equipped eqauls 0,5 m of real additional detecion but it's a simplification. With 7 pc of HA equipped and no bonuses into stealth you'll get detected from around 3,5m radius.

Test results:
No points in Out of sight. No Khajiit bonuses. No sets.

1 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
2 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility in one condition - you have to be in movement - you can be detected only when standing directly "on" enemy < 1m proximity, it is possible that you will be detected if lag occurs.
3 pc of HA or more - affecting cloak and vampire invisibility - when you run through your enemy you will be spotted, getting closer than 1m means you will get detected. The more pieces of HA you wear the bigger the range youll get detected.

30 points in Out of sight. No Khajiit racials. No sets. Basically it allows you to equip 3 more HA pieces. (Khajiit racials = Out of sight - both work the same way)
1 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
2 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
3 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
4 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
5 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility in one condition - you have to be in movement - you can be detected only when standing directly "on" enemy < 1m proximity, it is possible that you will be detected if lag occurs.
6 pc of HA or more - getting closer than 1m means you will get detected. The more pieces of HA you wear the bigger the range youll get detected.

30 points in Out of sight. Khajiit racials used. No sets.
1 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
2 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
3 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
4 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
5 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
6 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
7 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.

30 points in Out of sight. No Khajiit racials. Night Terror set (-2 m detection range with 3 pc eqipped).
1 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
2 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
3 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
4 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
5 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
6 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility.
7 pc of HA - not affecting cloak or vampire invisibility in one condition - you have to be in movement - you can be detected only when standing directly "on" enemy < 1m proximity, it is possible that you will be detected if lag occurs.

UPDATE for PVP!
When facing bosmer with his 3m additional detection radius. Oh my oh my. When standing directly on your enemy you will be always visible no matter of number of HA you use (even with none of them on you).

Ok worst case scenario.
No points into Out of sight. No Khajiit racials. No sets
1 pc of HA - getting closer than 1m means you will get detected. The more pieces of HA you wear the bigger the range youll get detected each pc of HA increases this by a bit more than 1m detection radius.
7 pc of HA - youre being detected in around 9m radius (a bit more than drain power range which has 8m radius).

Ok this is where things are getting a bit weird.
It seems that Out of sight or Khajiit racials (both when used separately) against bosmer doesn't work or does barely visible difference. When combined those passive work pretty well allowing you to get around 1m to bosmer and not get detected (without any HA eqipped).

In general Bosmer is the new PvP anti NB race completly disabling cloak and ivisibility in certain circumstances making it totally ineffective.

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

I was going to ask the same thing. Are you wearing Heavy Armor? Check the passives, after the update they now increase your detection radius. You can now be 'Heard' even if you are Crouch-Hidden or invisible at a greater distance, which I've read results in being detected.

Ahhh! That explains the issue I have been experiencing.

Thank you.