Auto-Bind Items to prevent future price explosions and exploitations!

Zodiarkslayer · March 2021

I have noticed very often, that a lot of the items I wish to buy, have been bought right under my nose, only to reappear on a different guild trader for a much higher price.
And not just me. All the guildies, that I talked to about it, have agreed and talked about similar experiences. One openly admitted he became filthy rich doing that.

Now, as many will probably agree on, that pushes prices by a LOT, like a LOT LOT.
Buying that one elusive motif page and reselling it for twice, thrice or even ten times the value is hurting the entire community by limiting use/consumption to a very small percentage of players.

My suggestion to alleviate this is to simply make all items purchased on guild traders or even send by mail auto-bind to ones account.
That would solve a lot of the issues that reselling is causing.

How that would work for consumables or upgrade materials, I cannot fathom. I do not know how binding works technologically in ESO.

What does the community think?
Am I right?
Wrong?
Am I missing something?

Please comment and PLEASE be civil.

zaria · March 2021

Binding is only an thing on set items.
And if people buying items and re selling them for an profit then you sold to cheap.

That is if the item sold. Set items for popular sets tend to list way to high now and they don't sell.
Yes just after the reconstruction system dropped many bought weird stuff like briarheart restoration staffs for 20-50K gold as it reduces the cost of reconstructing.

However if you look at the prices the item sells for its much lower as in 2-3 K for an briarheart restoration staff.

Sarannah · March 2021

I hardly ever use guildtraders, and I'm against this.
The only reason this works for the moment, is because some people are in a rush to complete their gearcollections. The sellers are simply taking advantage of the players who have no patience. Once that is done, the prices will crash hard. And forever! So those trying to benefit from reselling, will see their stock become worthless pretty soon.
The only ones affected by reselling, are the ones who feel like they must complete their gearcollections instantly.

Other stuff besides gear. If someone posts too cheap, another will always try to resell it. Which is no issue, as anyone who wants something will eventually be able to find it for a regular price. So they are only taking advantage of players rushing/in a hurry.

preevious · March 2021

What if I wanna buy something needed by my offline friend, to give it when they log in?

What you describe is called "flipping". I also do that a bit.

What it is : someone don't know the market, put something at a very low price. Player B buy it and sell it back at market price.
It's not dishonnest. If he don't need the item, he'll use the gold instead to buy something he need. He gets the same value out of the item as someone who need it. It does not drive prices up, since the item was mispriced in the first price.

What it is not : Player B buys a normally priced item ans sell it for twice the normal price while laughing maniacally. Such an item wouldn't sell, anyway, since it would be overpriced.

In the end : market drives price up and down. Flipping doesn't.

RedMuse · March 2021

preevious wrote: »

What if I wanna buy something needed by my offline friend, to give it when they log in?

What you describe is called "flipping". I also do that a bit.

What it is : someone don't know the market, put something at a very low price. Player B buy it and sell it back at market price.
It's not dishonnest. If he don't need the item, he'll use the gold instead to buy something he need. He gets the same value out of the item as someone who need it. It does not drive prices up, since the item was mispriced in the first price.

What it is not : Player B buys a normally priced item ans sell it for twice the normal price while laughing maniacally. Such an item wouldn't sell, anyway, since it would be overpriced.

In the end : market drives price up and down. Flipping doesn't.

I'll say one thing to the "what it is" part. Sometimes it's not because the player doesn't know the marked, sometimes they purposely put it up for a (sometimes ridiculously low) price because they want rid of it in a hurry. Source, me when I do inventory/bank cleaning. Because sometimes I put stuff up for a lot less then the going price because I just want to clean up my space. So the fast, attentive or just plain lucky can get a good deal. What they do with it after they buy it I neither know nor care.

colossalvoids · March 2021

Well, it's a price people listing things for initially and that's purely their own choice. As example I've sold 2 aetheric cipher pieces recently for 3.5 mil each, but some are listing them for a hefty 4-5 mil and probably selling them as fast as I am but I was setting accordingly to guild prices I'm selling in. If someone would sell them later for a bigger price is on them, I've got what I asked for already. Same with popular gear really. When I see divines sorrow piece for 1k I surely snapping it, because why not.

Elsonso · March 2021

This sort of thing is a core part of any "auction house" or "player-to-player commerce" system.

Personally, I think people should be allowed to do it, but it should not be super easy or trivial to do it. That is why I am against the whole central auction house thing. In order to claim the market for an item, many different traders have to be visited, which takes time to accomplish.

zaria · March 2021

Sarannah wrote: »

I hardly ever use guildtraders, and I'm against this.
The only reason this works for the moment, is because some people are in a rush to complete their gearcollections. The sellers are simply taking advantage of the players who have no patience. Once that is done, the prices will crash hard. And forever! So those trying to benefit from reselling, will see their stock become worthless pretty soon.
The only ones affected by reselling, are the ones who feel like they must complete their gearcollections instantly.

Other stuff besides gear. If someone posts too cheap, another will always try to resell it. Which is no issue, as anyone who wants something will eventually be able to find it for a regular price. So they are only taking advantage of players rushing/in a hurry.

Not worthless just get reasonable prices like it was before the stickerbook for the cheaper items while the more expensive ones like mother sorrow inferno staffs being much cheaper as in 5-10 K I guess.

Rukia541 · March 2021

Aside from guild trader system being a convoluted clown fiesta pita to chase items you've searched at reasonable prices, this behavior can be found in literally every AH system in every game that has one. Most likely someone doesn't know going price of an item, sets it low, someone buys it and profits. Not really anything wrong with that. You can use an addon or visit TTC website to get a general price of things so you know whether you're getting ripped off or bought out by some lucky person then set at a regular price.

Honestly if someone gonna waste that much time and effort to flip in ESO, I say they deserve it lol its so awful compared to normal auction house.

Mettaricana · March 2021

Last event i pulled a gold morag tong motif book none for sale to even base my prices off of but cant seem to sell it off just my luck...

VaranisArano · March 2021

No, and what you describe is pretty normal market behavior. You are aggrieved because you needed something (demand), only to discover that suppliers predicted that demand, gathered the supply, and hiked the price. Oh no! Many woes and calamities! How dare players play ESO like a market simulator to make gold instead of only ever buying the things they need?!

While I do understand a certain amount of frustration towards the "flippers" and "middlemen" traders that many see as coming between suppliers (who are players who really just love farming stuff, naturally) and buyers (players who'd rather spend their time playing than farming OR making money), I think its short-sighted.

For one, playing an MMO to make money is as valid a playstyle as any other. Whether it's for personal satisfaction or as a form of economic PVP, some players enjoy it.

Second, MMOs are all about spending time or money to get what you want. Either you spend your time farming for what you need or you spend your time farming for money to buy what you need. And when you want to do neither, you find yourself stuck with whatever the market price is. That's all according to ZOS' design.

Third, trading is the foundation of ESO's economy, not just buying only what you personally need. I've bought items, then donated them for my guild auction. I've bought gear for PVP guildmates. I've bought furniture for my guildmaster to put in the guild house. Your suggestion axes all of that. It's not just flippers and middlemen raising prices who'd be impacted by you taking a nerfhammer to the many reasons why people buy things they don't personally need.

My advice: if you don't like being subject to market prices the moment you need something, plan ahead. That means gathering enough gold on hand that you can buy stuff you know you'll want when it's cheap (like motifs during the Anniversary Event when prices plummet). It means being patient (like not buying housing mats right after ZOS releases a gigantic house as an event reward). It means farming for stuff that you don't want to buy (if you don't want to pay the high price for cornflower pots, be prepared to farm your own cornflower.) And if all that sounds like too much work, remember that this is an MMO. ZOS wants you spending your time farming for what you want or for the money to get what you want. They'd much rather you put in the effort than redesign the whole economy so you don't have to.

SGT_Wolfe101st · March 2021

Wrong, by a LOT, like a LOT LOT.

Viewsfrom6ix · March 2021

No thanks. Not a single online game with a trading market does this. Trading is a huge activity for online games.

AlnilamE · March 2021

Personally, I'm pretty cheap when it comes to motifs. If I can't find them at the price I'm willing to pay, I'll go farm them myself.

allhailskippy · March 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

No, and what you describe is pretty normal market behavior. You are aggrieved because you needed something (demand), only to discover that suppliers predicted that demand, gathered the supply, and hiked the price. Oh no! Many woes and calamities! How dare players play ESO like a market simulator to make gold instead of only ever buying the things they need?!

While I do understand a certain amount of frustration towards the "flippers" and "middlemen" traders that many see as coming between suppliers (who are players who really just love farming stuff, naturally) and buyers (players who'd rather spend their time playing than farming OR making money), I think its shortlisted.

For one, playing an MMO to make money is as valid a playstyle as any other. Whether it's for personal satisfaction or as a form of economic PVP, some players enjoy it.

Second, MMOs are all about spending time or money to get what you want. Either you spend your time farming for what you need or you spend your time farming for money to buy what you need. And when you want to do neither, you find yourself stuck with whatever the market price is. That's all according to ZOS' design.

Third, trading is the foundation of ESO's economy, not just buying only what you personally need. I've bought items, then donated them for my guild auction. I've bought gear for PVP guildmates. I've bought furniture for my guildmaster to put in the guild house. Your suggestion axes all of that. It's not just flippers and middlemen raising prices who'd be impacted by you taking a nerfhammer to the many reasons why people buy things they don't personally need.

My advice: if you don't like being subject to market prices the moment you need something, plan ahead. That means gathering enough gold on hand that you can buy stuff you know you'll want when it's cheap (like motifs during the Anniversary Event when prices plummet). It means being patient (like not buying housing mats right after ZOS releases a gigantic house as an event reward). It means farming for stuff that you don't want to buy (if you don't want to pay the high price for cornflower pots, be prepared to farm your own cornflower.) And if all that sounds like too much work, remember that this is an MMO. ZOS wants you spending your time farming for what you want or for the money to get what you want. They'd much rather you put in the effort than redesign the whole economy so you don't have to.

All of this. So many valid points here.

Just because it's not how you want to play the game, doesn't make it a valid play style.

Items are worth what people will pay for them. And there is a disincentive to charge more than you think you'll get (as in there's a 1% non-refundable listing fee)

If you don't like paying for stuff at high prices, then there's the option to farm it. It will increase the supply, and you can charge whatever you feel is fair for it.

UppGRAYxDD · March 2021

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Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I have noticed very often, that a lot of the items I wish to buy, have been bought right under my nose, only to reappear on a different guild trader for a much higher price.
And not just me. All the guildies, that I talked to about it, have agreed and talked about similar experiences. One openly admitted he became filthy rich doing that.

Now, as many will probably agree on, that pushes prices by a LOT, like a LOT LOT.
Buying that one elusive motif page and reselling it for twice, thrice or even ten times the value is hurting the entire community by limiting use/consumption to a very small percentage of players.

My suggestion to alleviate this is to simply make all items purchased on guild traders or even send by mail auto-bind to ones account.
That would solve a lot of the issues that reselling is causing.

How that would work for consumables or upgrade materials, I cannot fathom. I do not know how binding works technologically in ESO.

What does the community think?
Am I right?
Wrong?
Am I missing something?

Please comment and PLEASE be civil.

For soo many reasons...

hafgood · March 2021

I've had friends send me stuff to either use or put in the guild bank, by making it all bound I would not be able to pass it on to others.

For instance one of my guildmates did a Deadly run, he had some of the weapons no one uses that I needed for the sticker book, he sent me all his spares mixed together.

If we went with the moment it comes off the mail its bound scenario you suggest then I would have needed to return all the mails and tell him exactly what I needed. Instead I was able to take it all off the mails and returned what wasn't required.

This saved us both time and was the easiest solution. So binding as you take from a mail would be a nightmare in scenarios such as this.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2021

This goes right to the top of the list of horrific ideas that need to never be implemented.

I make my ESO “living” selling level 1 jewelry for people to train their crafters with. When I see someone put up a bunch of trait gems for way under the price they should be I essentially have to buy them or my “business” would go under.

It’s all well and good selling triune jewelry at 23.5K each (way under market value on XBox) when I can get dawn prisms for AP but when I need to pay 20k+ for them I simply stop making these items that are really rare and necessary jewelry for everyone. If I could only make them using my AP the price would be easily double.

linuxlady · March 2021

How about instead of binding there is a cool down on flipping items. Once an item is bought from a guild trader it can’t be resold for two weeks?

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2021

linuxlady wrote: »

How about instead of binding there is a cool down on flipping items. Once an item is bought from a guild trader it can’t be resold for two weeks?

All that does is just shift the supply off a week or two. I got 40 titanium this week for 40k and I’ll likely turn that into 300-400k.

It’s not a fix for flipping. It’s just a delay to the market that will hurt ESO millionaires for a very small amount of time before resetting back to normal while creating an annoyance for everyday players who simply want to send their buddy a weapon they found.

Slowing the supply of goods doesn’t help economies in real life or ESO.

Zyva · March 2021

flipping is just one way to use the market to make money, and is in fact one way a new player can use the market to make money. I started with just flipping 10k items and moved up to 50k items, etc. When you see a profit to be made, you take advantage of it.

There is also a limit to that, you cant list something for too outrageous of a price or no one will buy it. I also wanted to flip items fast enough to make money to... go flip more items, when that was my main revenue stream. And I wanted pocket change to go invest in my characters builds and my hobby, housing. So there was a delicate balance to that game, and it takes talent and an eye for the eso market. Also sometimes a LOT of time spent riding your mount between traders, and stalking TTC. If you are a mat farmer on top of that, trying to go around and do your surveys or decon gear for housing mats like shimmering sand, it gets even more time consuming.

To try and simply take all that away thinking you will make the economy easier is actually not understanding that by doing so, you will probably stop the activity that is also bringing raw resources into the economy as well. And its probably way more effort than Zos will ever go to, if it would be done properly, because you would need to decide which types of items would be auto-bind to not break the system even more.

Not to mention, a lot of items are needed to be tradeable between players to help finish collections, like gear/motifs/patterns etc. And literally anything in the eso economy can be flipped, from crafting mats, to runeboxes, to potions. If you CAN sell it, someone is flipping it.

linuxlady · March 2021

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

linuxlady wrote: »

How about instead of binding there is a cool down on flipping items. Once an item is bought from a guild trader it can’t be resold for two weeks?

All that does is just shift the supply off a week or two. I got 40 titanium this week for 40k and I’ll likely turn that into 300-400k.

It’s not a fix for flipping. It’s just a delay to the market that will hurt ESO millionaires for a very small amount of time before resetting back to normal while creating an annoyance for everyday players who simply want to send their buddy a weapon they found.

Slowing the supply of goods doesn’t help economies in real life or ESO.

I think that assertion is wrong. All these so called weapons that people found and gave to their buddies are just vaporware excuses.

allhailskippy · March 2021

linuxlady wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

linuxlady wrote: »

How about instead of binding there is a cool down on flipping items. Once an item is bought from a guild trader it can’t be resold for two weeks?

All that does is just shift the supply off a week or two. I got 40 titanium this week for 40k and I’ll likely turn that into 300-400k.

It’s not a fix for flipping. It’s just a delay to the market that will hurt ESO millionaires for a very small amount of time before resetting back to normal while creating an annoyance for everyday players who simply want to send their buddy a weapon they found.

Slowing the supply of goods doesn’t help economies in real life or ESO.

I think that assertion is wrong. All these so called weapons that people found and gave to their buddies are just vaporware excuses.

And you're basing that on...

Olauron · March 2021

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I have noticed very often, that a lot of the items I wish to buy, have been bought right under my nose, only to reappear on a different guild trader for a much higher price.
And not just me. All the guildies, that I talked to about it, have agreed and talked about similar experiences. One openly admitted he became filthy rich doing that.

Now, as many will probably agree on, that pushes prices by a LOT, like a LOT LOT.
Buying that one elusive motif page and reselling it for twice, thrice or even ten times the value is hurting the entire community by limiting use/consumption to a very small percentage of players.

My suggestion to alleviate this is to simply make all items purchased on guild traders or even send by mail auto-bind to ones account.
That would solve a lot of the issues that reselling is causing.

How that would work for consumables or upgrade materials, I cannot fathom. I do not know how binding works technologically in ESO.

What does the community think?
Am I right?
Wrong?
Am I missing something?

Please comment and PLEASE be civil.

I am not sure, that it is the right time to do something like this (and that there will be such time at all). But that would be a huge benefit for any game that starts with auto-binding for all items, bought from player traders. Personally I would implement this without a doubt for any new game with trading system. After 7 year of working the other way? A bit too late.

rumple9 · March 2021

Bind on acquire would reduce supply therefore pushing prices up. Simply economics

Minyassa · March 2021

That would keep me from buying gifts for my friends or picking up a piece of gear for my friend when I'm closer to the right guild trader than she is, and vice versa. I think the answer is not limiting what is done with the gear so much as maybe raising awareness of the availability of some items via other methods than the guild store, and teaching people to hold out for reasonable prices. Price hiking wouldn't work if some people weren't dopey or impatient enough to buy things at absurd prices. If we wanted prices to drop we could make them drop, it would just take discipline that most gamers aren't interested in flexing.

YandereGirlfriend · March 2021

zaria wrote: »

And if people buying items and re selling them for an profit then you sold to cheap.

This is not necessarily true nor is it what the OP is talking about.

They are talking about artificial scarcity brought about by cartel-like behavior designed to manipulate markets for certain goods. You can see this phenomenon quite clearly in real life right now in the GPU market, where organized groups of flippers are buying up (with bots) all card stocks and re-selling them for 2x-3x their MSRP. Since they've cleaned out the market, buyers have no choice but to bow to the extortion or forego a card.

In ESO, you can see this with raw materials. The cartels that traffic in a particular material will clean out all of the inventory as an enforcement mechanism to prop up their own artificially high price. Buyers are then forced to pay the price or farm it themselves but rest assured this is not the behavior of a well-functioning market.

SilverBride · March 2021

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I have noticed very often, that a lot of the items I wish to buy, have been bought right under my nose, only to reappear on a different guild trader for a much higher price...

that pushes prices by a LOT...

My suggestion to alleviate this is to simply make all items purchased on guild traders or even send by mail auto-bind to ones account...

Am I right?
Wrong?

You are wrong. There is nothing wrong with someone buying an item that has been underpriced then reselling it at market value.

The real solution is for you to research the market value of an item before you put it up for sale.

jaws343 · March 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I have noticed very often, that a lot of the items I wish to buy, have been bought right under my nose, only to reappear on a different guild trader for a much higher price...

that pushes prices by a LOT...

My suggestion to alleviate this is to simply make all items purchased on guild traders or even send by mail auto-bind to ones account...

Am I right?
Wrong?

You are wrong. There is nothing wrong with someone buying an item that has been underpriced then reselling it at market value.

The real solution is for you to research the market value of an item before you put it up for sale.

Yeah, this. I intentionally undersell my Ancestral motiffs because I want to sell them quick and get them out of my trader spot. Who buys it, or what happens to it after it is purchased is irrelevant. If someone wants to eat up their trader spot selling it for more, good on them. If someone needs it, they can pay whatever prices are being asked or they can stop being lazy and farm it themselves.

Araneae6537 · March 2021

Olauron wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I have noticed very often, that a lot of the items I wish to buy, have been bought right under my nose, only to reappear on a different guild trader for a much higher price.
And not just me. All the guildies, that I talked to about it, have agreed and talked about similar experiences. One openly admitted he became filthy rich doing that.

Now, as many will probably agree on, that pushes prices by a LOT, like a LOT LOT.
Buying that one elusive motif page and reselling it for twice, thrice or even ten times the value is hurting the entire community by limiting use/consumption to a very small percentage of players.

My suggestion to alleviate this is to simply make all items purchased on guild traders or even send by mail auto-bind to ones account.
That would solve a lot of the issues that reselling is causing.

How that would work for consumables or upgrade materials, I cannot fathom. I do not know how binding works technologically in ESO.

What does the community think?
Am I right?
Wrong?
Am I missing something?

Please comment and PLEASE be civil.

I am not sure, that it is the right time to do something like this (and that there will be such time at all). But that would be a huge benefit for any game that starts with auto-binding for all items, bought from player traders. Personally I would implement this without a doubt for any new game with trading system. After 7 year of working the other way? A bit too late.

Why would that be beneficial to do in any game??? In ESO, I have bought gear for others and several times I’ve bought something for one of my characters only to discover I made an error. Being able to resell the item enabled me to recoup some or even all the cost whereas if my only option had been to decon, it would have been a loss. Likewise with furnishings — I may buy something but it doesn’t work how I envisioned or I change my mind, then because both space and funds are limited, I can resell the item for someone else to use.

And what is wrong with flipping? The person posting for a low price got the quick sale they wanted and it won’t be posted above market rates most times or else that is a waste of money and a trading slot.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2021

linuxlady wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

linuxlady wrote: »

How about instead of binding there is a cool down on flipping items. Once an item is bought from a guild trader it can’t be resold for two weeks?

All that does is just shift the supply off a week or two. I got 40 titanium this week for 40k and I’ll likely turn that into 300-400k.

It’s not a fix for flipping. It’s just a delay to the market that will hurt ESO millionaires for a very small amount of time before resetting back to normal while creating an annoyance for everyday players who simply want to send their buddy a weapon they found.

Slowing the supply of goods doesn’t help economies in real life or ESO.

I think that assertion is wrong. All these so called weapons that people found and gave to their buddies are just vaporware excuses.

I have exactly 1 real life friend who plays ESO. He sends me 10s of thousands of gold in free items nearly every week. Not just “a weapon” but like a full stack of columbine at no cost. He already owns I believe every motif from before 2021 and has a mansion decorated with every possible thing you can excavate in ESO on display.

He has everything he wants and needs in ESO ten times over so sometimes while I know most of his gifts are from his bank there have been times where he saw something and said “I thought you could use this for your Magplar so I grabbed it on sale in my guild store”.

The TLDR is that I’m ESO rich but my buddy is ESO mega-rich. Buying things and giving them away freely is something that I’m a part of all the time.