Werewolf pounce/carnage lockout bug

MopeyHat · June 2020

Recently when playing Werewolf with Tormentor to be a tank, I found spamming Brutal Pounce/Carnage can often lock me out of the ability entirely. Something about the conversion between the two versions, I guess.

Also please consider dropping the Carnage proc from a morph of Pounce or making it so it only procs while in range and while targeting something that's just been hit with Pounce.

PC NA on an Orc Dragonknight werewolf wearing Tormentor/Ebon Armory/Bloodspawn.

Qbiken · June 2020

Been saying since PTS week 1 that the redesign of pounce and the carnage skill wasn't practical. So many bugs about werewolf was reported and literally every single one of them were ignored....so don't expect any adjustments any time soon.

Asmoxian · June 2020

I also have found that pounce breaks mid-dungeon run nearly every time. So annoying that you have to /reloadui to fix it. Totally breaks the speed/fun of werewolf.

ZOS_GinaBruno · June 2020

Hey @MopeyHat, we tried looking into this but weren't able to reproduce the issue. Could you give a bit more detail? Perhaps exactly what you were doing before this happened, any steps you can describe to make it happen, or the location of where you were when it happened.

redspecter23 · June 2020

I've been playing orc DK werewolf since the patch and also haven't noticed any lockout. I do agree that the pounce redesign with the ability morphing after you use it feels like a nerf rather than a buff. Basically a way to keep you from pouncing repeatedly.

Perhaps the lockout is related to the interaction of pounce + tormentor specifically as I'm not using that combo yet.

Kyzeragon · June 2020

Multiple people had this happen to them in our meme werewolf vAA run. None of the people it happened to were using Tormentor. I think it might have something to do with either synergies or moving out of range. Here is a clip: https://imgur.com/a/oMUoNDU
In this one I didn't actually end up using a synergy, though I might have attempted, don't remember, but I was casting Brutal Carnage and then moving out of range to go to the safe pad.

I reproduced this just now on a trial dummy. I used Brutal Carnage and a synergy at about the same time and was also moving out of range:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIv6nR00OjM

Haven't been able to get it more than once though, after ~10 mins of sitting at this dummy and spamming different button sequences. I am also light attack weaving, not sure if that contributes or not.

skinnycheeks · June 2020

https://youtu.be/c-czAZ2MK-k

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Here is a video of it happening.

It appears that this bug might possibly have something to do with taking a synergy at the same time. It also is similar in appearance to the bug with the Necromancer's skill "Blastbones" greying out, but since the fix to that is barswapping and barswapping is not an option in WW form, you are stuck with an ability that doesn't work until you transform back to human then back to WW again.

EDIT: Looks like someone else posted a video right before me as well and it was also synergy related. I submitted a couple of /feedback reports on this on the PTS during week 1 and week 5 as well.

Kyzeragon · June 2020

On a related note: you can fix this by removing and re-placing the skill on your bar from the skills menu, but this requires being out of combat.

MopeyHat · June 2020

Yep, as I was running tank I was definitely spamming synergies (and accidentally hitting the feed synergy a lot on trash). I'll see if I can reproduce it later.

ScardyFox · June 2020

Yup, same has been happening to me all day. The only way to get rid of it in a dungeon etc is to untransform.

While you're at it fix the Pack Leader timer bug as well... and think of a better way to use carnage, its frikken wonky as hell even without a bug.

Swen_von_Walhallion · June 2020

i have problem with this bug a loot too. As DD with lokke set i always spam synergies, and if its cause its explain why its make rly often for me on trials.

OutlawM2S · June 2020

Just had this happen to me during the chilblain peak HS. Was spaming carnage on a pike and it died as I was landing on it then the ability completely locked out till i replaced it out of combat. Not using a tormenter set using the hundin's rage

Maulkin · July 2020

Still happening

Synergies + movement while pouncing seems to trigger it. Pls fix!

michelmephit · January 2021

@ZOS_GinaBruno

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey @MopeyHat, we tried looking into this but weren't able to reproduce the issue. Could you give a bit more detail? Perhaps exactly what you were doing before this happened, any steps you can describe to make it happen, or the location of where you were when it happened.

I have just done my own investigation and found a way for you to reproduce the issue. Try Brutal Pounce/Brutal Carnage while someone grouped with you lays down the Bone Wall synergy.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/558242/werewolf-brutal-pounce-brutal-carnage-bug-diagnosis#latest

Ruhlf · January 2021

Does reloadui actually work to fix this? I’ll try in the next dungeon.

Darcwolf · January 2021

Ruhlf wrote: »

Does reloadui actually work to fix this? I’ll try in the next dungeon.

No, it doesn't. Have tried it tons of times.

MopeyHat · January 2021

Yeah, this definitely still consistently happens aaaaall the time when PvEing in a group as a werewolf.

The easiest fix, for anyone needing a workaround, is to un-slot and re-slot the skill, though it requires you be out of combat.

michelmephit · February 2021

Based on reports from others who have had Brutal Pounce break on them while going solo in public dungeons, I speculated that it could perhaps be caused by some debuffs. In my Hunter's Glade, I dueled with a friend who would hit me with a single debuffing ability. We tried just about every debuff on this list: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs#Debuffs
Nothing seemed to cause the Brutal Pounce to break.

So far in all my tests, THE BONE WALL SYNERGY IS THE ONLY THING THAT I'VE FOUND THAT REPEATEDLY CAUSE THE BRUTAL CARNAGE LOCKOUT BUG.

Has anybody else found anything besides that that breaks the pounce?

Darcwolf · February 2021

michelmephit wrote: »

Based on reports from others who have had Brutal Pounce break on them while going solo in public dungeons, I speculated that it could perhaps be caused by some debuffs. In my Hunter's Glade, I dueled with a friend who would hit me with a single debuffing ability. We tried just about every debuff on this list: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Buffs#Debuffs
Nothing seemed to cause the Brutal Pounce to break.

So far in all my tests, THE BONE WALL SYNERGY IS THE ONLY THING THAT I'VE FOUND THAT REPEATEDLY CAUSE THE BRUTAL CARNAGE LOCKOUT BUG.

Has anybody else found anything besides that that breaks the pounce?

I have seen it break lots of times when I'm not even in a group with someone with bone wall.

michelmephit · February 2021

Darcwolf wrote: »

I have seen it break lots of times when I'm not even in a group with someone with bone wall.

Yes, I've been thinking about what could be happening here. When you were going solo and your Brutal Pounce broke, were there maybe other players near you (but not grouped with you)? Could one of them have triggered a synergy that affected you?

The next time it breaks, I'd be curious to know exactly where you were and against what you were combating when your pounce broke.

I'm going to be paying attention to that as well myself.

michelmephit · February 2021

Darcwolf wrote: »

I have seen it break lots of times when I'm not even in a group with someone with bone wall.

If you were in fact in a group where the Bone Wall synergy was not being generated, do you know what other synergies were present when the pounce broke?

I have been looking at other synergies myself, but so far, it was only with Bone Wall that I was able to produce repeatable results.

Darcwolf · March 2021

michelmephit wrote: »

Darcwolf wrote: »

I have seen it break lots of times when I'm not even in a group with someone with bone wall.

If you were in fact in a group where the Bone Wall synergy was not being generated, do you know what other synergies were present when the pounce broke?

I have been looking at other synergies myself, but so far, it was only with Bone Wall that I was able to produce repeatable results.

I did this recording. I had literally JUST turned into werewolf and you can see it break. I wish I had started recording before I had changed to give a better perspective.

[Snip]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpoRD4eWhNc

[Edited for discussing mod action]

Darcwolf · March 2021

oh ffs, so your newest patch you state

Pounce
Brutal Pounce (morph): Fixed an issue where Brutal Carnage’s Damage over Time was not properly inheriting the damage increase from Carnage’s rank up progression. This will result in approximately 3.3% damage increase of this morph’s bleed.

So instead of fixing the issue people are complaining about you fix an issue I have literally never heard anyone even mention. Are you even EVER going to acknowledge this?

also @michelmephit here's another video of it breaking on a boss, with no bone wall. You can see I pounce, use brutal carnage, then get knocked back by boss and it immidietly breaks.

https://youtu.be/LkB1YjYwyXo

michelmephit · March 2021

@Darcwolf I've noticed other times where Brutal Pounce would break too when there is no Bone Wall Synergy, but I've been unable to pin down what would cause it to break on those occasions.

Bone Wall Synergy with Brutal Pounce is still the only REPEATABLE interaction that I've been able to isolate.

Either way, I refuse to pay for ESO+ and refuse to buy the next chapter until ZOS gets its act together and fixes this bug!

@ZOS_GinaBruno I have given you one concrete lead at the very least, and have not seen any reply or acknowledgment on this. Have you even tried doing the Brutal Pounce while someone lays down the Bone Wall synergy? THIS IS A REPEATABLE BUG! I am just hoping that it leads to finding the root cause to all the situations where Brutal Pounce breaks.

michelmephit · March 2021

@Darcwolf I Reviewed your video several times. As best as I can see, there was a Mystic Orb floating by while a Holy Shards synergy appeared just as that boss knocked you back when the Brutal Carnage lockout bug appeared. In my own tests, I never was able to make Holy Shards break the Pounce.

I've noticed a few times when my Brutal Pounce also broke while Mystic Orb floated by in dungeons. I did some further tests with that and have confirmed that the Combustion Synergy does break the Brutal Pounce. THIS IS ALSO REPEATABLE.

Darcwolf · March 2021

michelmephit wrote: »

@Darcwolf I've noticed other times where Brutal Pounce would break too when there is no Bone Wall Synergy, but I've been unable to pin down what would cause it to break on those occasions.

Bone Wall Synergy with Brutal Pounce is still the only REPEATABLE interaction that I've been able to isolate.

Either way, I refuse to pay for ESO+ and refuse to buy the next chapter until ZOS gets its act together and fixes this bug!

@ZOS_GinaBruno I have given you one concrete lead at the very least, and have not seen any reply or acknowledgment on this. Have you even tried doing the Brutal Pounce while someone lays down the Bone Wall synergy? THIS IS A REPEATABLE BUG! I am just hoping that it leads to finding the root cause to all the situations where Brutal Pounce breaks.

Yea, I'm cancelling my sub soon, gonna do a small video rant on this though while I show myself cancelling my sub. I'm honestly not sure if I will ever resub, this game just has so many bugs they ignore it's just unacceptable. They are literally one of the largest game companies in the world and they let bugs just go forever and completely ignore customers complaining.

michelmephit · March 2021

Okay. I did some further tests. Wondering if some of the gear (i.e. Blood Moon, Relequen, etc.) could be interacting with synergies, I repeated my previous tests, this time with all the gear removed from my werewolf. In those tests, I did nothing but Brutal Pounce / Brutal Carnage while another player I was grouped with did nothing but Bone Shield (for Bone Wall Synergy). I also repeated the same test with the other player doing nothing but Mystic Orb (Combustion). This way, I've isolated it down to these two synergies alone and nothing else, using a test dummy (not the iron atronach trial dummy).

I have confirmed it. BONE WALL and COMBUSTION SYNERGIES BOTH REPEATEDLY BREAK BRUTAL POUNCE. Just the appearance of the synergy was enough to cause the Brutal Carnage lockout bug after a few tries.

@ZOS_GinaBruno You now have two synergies that you can test with that are repeatable!

Skullstachio · March 2021

I think it’s more to do with target lock (Least likely suspect of pounce lockout), because I find that either when changing to a new target just as the current one dies or even during the split second animation, I find it locks up in that regard and as it is hard to reproduce the bug, one may think it to be an uncommon bug.

I should know, because my Dragonknight werewolf had similar pounce issues in the past and I like to think it is something to do with the shift in targets, enemy deaths before it has a chance to damage the target and the like.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

michelmephit · March 2021

Skullstachio wrote: »

I think it’s more to do with target lock (Least likely suspect of pounce lockout), because I find that either when changing to a new target just as the current one dies or even during the split second animation, I find it locks up in that regard and as it is hard to reproduce the bug, one may think it to be an uncommon bug.

I should know, because my Dragonknight werewolf had similar pounce issues in the past and I like to think it is something to do with the shift in targets, enemy deaths before it has a chance to damage the target and the like.

That's a new one to me. I'm not sure how something like that could be tested under controlled conditions though. In all the tests I've done, I've attempted to isolate all interactions as much as possible (i.e. one test dummy, Brutal Pounce / Brutal Carnage only, and one synergy only from only one player I was grouped with).

Skullstachio · March 2021

michelmephit wrote: »

Skullstachio wrote: »

I think it’s more to do with target lock (Least likely suspect of pounce lockout), because I find that either when changing to a new target just as the current one dies or even during the split second animation, I find it locks up in that regard and as it is hard to reproduce the bug, one may think it to be an uncommon bug.

I should know, because my Dragonknight werewolf had similar pounce issues in the past and I like to think it is something to do with the shift in targets, enemy deaths before it has a chance to damage the target and the like.

That's a new one to me. I'm not sure how something like that could be tested under controlled conditions though. In all the tests I've done, I've attempted to isolate all interactions as much as possible (i.e. one test dummy, Brutal Pounce / Brutal Carnage only, and one synergy only from only one player I was grouped with).

That’s just it, it almost never happens with target dummies, In a real group dungeon situation where enemy NPC’s are bountiful is where you may need to reproduce the bug as it usually happens when there is more than one enemy regarding the scenario.

Darcwolf · March 2021

ZOS you have been given data, even though it's not our job to beta test the game for you. FFS will you please look into this or give us a update.