Please increase base dmg reduction from 10 to 15% atleast

virtus753 · March 2021

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

If those numbers are 90% of the original damage (accounting for 10% base damage reduction), then the original damage should have been 3318 from the heavy attack and 1037 from the strike attack. There is no way to see those numbers now, since we can't remove our 10% base reduction. But if I add 40 CP into Preparation, giving me 8% further damage reduction from mobs, then I should see a total reduction of 18% from the mudcrab's attacks off those reconstructed original values.

Isnt the % based resistance multiplicative? So 10% + 8% mitigation would give a damage reduction of 0.9 x 0.92 = 0.828 of the original damage so a damage reduction of 17.2%?

I'm redoing the math now. Will post the results in a few.

OK, here's what I have:

We know that base reduction is stated to be a flat 10%, so with an observed heavy attack of 2986 from the mudcrab, that means the mudcrab was doing 2986*100/90 = 3318 damage originally. (This value is not able to be confirmed through direct observation, but it is confirmed through further math.)

If damage reduction stacked multiplicatively, we would be looking at a damage reduction of 17.2% with 40 CP in Preparation for a hit of 2747 damage: 0.828 * 3318 = 2747.3

The hit observed with 40 CP in Preparation was 2721, not 2747. That means that the damage reduction from Preparation is additive with the 10% base damage reduction to get 18% total reduction: 0.82 * 3318 = 2720.76 (rounded to 2721), as observed

I would assume the 4% from Hardy and Ele Aegis is additive with that, but I haven't tested it.

Now that is multiplicative with the damage mitigation from resistances, which are themselves additive with each other.

Preparation brought up damage reduction to 18%. 12929 physical resistance gave 19.589% reduction on its own. Multiply (100-0.18)(100-0.19589) * 3318 = 2188 damage calculated, vs. 2192 observed

There must be some rounding going on that I haven't accurately accounted for. See my note below. But it's a lot closer than 0.828 * 0.80411 * 3318 = 2209, which would be the math if the 10% base damage reduction were multiplicative with the 8% from Preparation.

ETA: Thanks to this post, which has been updated for the new CP, I realize the error was in not realizing that Mr. Mudcrab got 100 pen against me:

12829/660 = 19.44% damage mitigation from resistances

0.82 * 0.8056 * 3318 = 2192, exactly as observed

QED

Eiregirl · March 2021

Was your armor broken?

merevie · March 2021

Something in mitigation is broken.
I am perfectly fine with that since there are workarounds if you have cp.

PaddyVu · March 2021

Eiregirl wrote: »

Was your armor broken?

No all fine, i even have guard protecting me by 30%, vampire stage 3 reduce dmg taken by another 30%

ccfeeling · March 2021

PaddyVu wrote: »

deflorate wrote: »

You're a stage 3 vamp lol

stage 3 vampire should give me another 30% reduction also. I only suffer from fire but there's no fire in this combat metrix, what happen without stage 3 and guard? 15k per jab?

Undeath
Reduces your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health

Player 100 percent hp , you get 0 percent vampire undeath mitigation
Player 50 percent hp , you get 15 percent vampire undeath mitigation
Player 0 percent hp , you get 30 percent vampire undeath mitigation

30% mitigation can't be done technically , there is no 0.1 hp in the game

Kurat · March 2021

It doesn't matter how much dmg you take without blocking. You're supposed to block or rolldodge bosses heavys. I've tanked tons of vet dlc dungeons and trials after the patch and I'm taking less dmg now while blocking. That's all what matters. If you wanna solo harder group content as dps then just rolldodge more, kite, watch where you stand etc, in other words l2p. You cant just use vet content bosses as target dummy's anymore when soloing, and that's a good thing. Mitigation is in good spot atm.

PaddyVu · March 2021

Kurat wrote: »

It doesn't matter how much dmg you take without blocking. You're supposed to block or rolldodge bosses heavys. I've tanked tons of vet dlc dungeons and trials after the patch and I'm taking less dmg now while blocking. That's all what matters. If you wanna solo harder group content as dps then just rolldodge more, kite, watch where you stand etc, in other words l2p. You cant just use vet content bosses as target dummy's anymore when soloing, and that's a good thing. Mitigation is in good spot atm.

Moongrave fane is unable to solo anymore, last boss hit me for 18k last patch, now 28k... cant solo thing that oneshot me

preevious · March 2021

For PVE, I see no real difference.

The extra HP makes up for the lost mitigation, I don't die more than before . Actually, when I'll have enough CP to buy the mitigation passives, I anticipate to be a little sturdier than pre-patch.
Of course, it means that more heals are needed to keep the same survivability.

For PVP, I don't know, since I don't play, but ..
You guys already had additional HP, so, you just lost mitigation while gaining nothing.
I see how it can be an issue.

Scardan · March 2021

Absolutely agree. Even running ghost and deaden pain I am squishy as melee DD, at least with 500 CP. I do not have bar space for Brawler, which is not a panacea itself.

PaddyVu · March 2021

preevious wrote: »

For PVE, I see no real difference.

The extra HP makes up for the lost mitigation, I don't die more than before . Actually, when I'll have enough CP to buy the mitigation passives, I anticipate to be a little sturdier than pre-patch.
Of course, it means that more heals are needed to keep the same survivability.

For PVP, I don't know, since I don't play, but ..
You guys already had additional HP, so, you just lost mitigation while gaining nothing.
I see how it can be an issue.

Extra hp is worthless, it doesnt help with mitigation, instead make healer work harder since u take 30-60% more dmg than before. Like Kiln boss in vUG, 22k hp 15k resist, he only hit me for 18k with his swing ( if u watch my solo, u should know that's the easiest boss in that dungeon ) now 24k hp 15k resist, he hit me for 26k, one shot. Cant solo anymore.

Scardan · March 2021

Dragonnord wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

So what? Let people enjoy things and show off their skills, it is fun challenge.

Seraphayel · March 2021

PaddyVu wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I hate group because all of them can be fake tank, fake healer, fake dps and i cant stand it, toxic, they even insult me if i give them some advice, this is why i dont want to be any groups, even in 12 man trial, i can solo trial like nSS or nCR because those people insult me, make game unsoloable only make me return to toxic community, even in guild run, they still toxic.
I want to be alone in every dungeon, every trial, every content. I hope companion next patch can fix this.

What you achieve is very impressive, but your attitude in an MMORPG isn't really working for me. Yes, (a lot of) players can be toxic, but this still is an online multiplayer game and dungeons and trials are a type of content that's designed for multiplayer. Especially trials and veteran content should not be soluble per se. If your skill is so high you can do it: great! But it shouldn't be the new normal.

I'm learning a lot of things in this thread which is very nice and appreciated and again, what you're able to do is very impressive.

Mindcr0w · March 2021

PaddyVu wrote: »

Moongrave fane is unable to solo anymore, last boss hit me for 18k last patch, now 28k... cant solo thing that oneshot me

Yeah sorry, but you issue here is the base starting point from which you are looking at things. Not the game itself.

You are looking at it from a standpoint of soloing vet dlc hardmodes (a thing that the developers never intended for for anyone to be able to do), seeing that it is more difficult, and concluding that this is a problem.

The rest of us who aren't struggling under the new system are doing group content in a group, and mostly finding it to be fine.

I'm sorry the game breaking things you liked to do aren't as easy to do anymore, and props to you for having been able to do them. But the fact that the game isn't as easy to break and be played in an unintended way hardly indicates there's a problem that needs fixing.

Grandchamp1989 · March 2021

PaddyVu wrote: »

ArgoCye wrote: »

No, 10% is fine in both pvp and pve

I start thinking base dmg reduction does not work. If i can revert to previous patch and test with no gear on a mob and compare to this patch, i will know the answer. Previous patch last boss in vUG hard mode hit me for 41k, now 53k, around 30% dps increase from boss. I already put point reduce 10% dmg from single target, 4% from martial and 8% from nom-player but boss still hit me extremely hard

I made extensive tests on this while it was in PTS.

I even warned everyone in my "Don't nerf Tank" threads.
I broke the numbers down.
Nobody.. And I mean NOBODY gave a rats.........

The numbers don't lie.

Unblocked mitigation is down
If you block mitigation is roughly around the same as pre-patch, assuming you got the CP points in it, and depending on factor's such as: are you wearing heavy armor and wether or not you take magic damage or not.

MONTHS ago I warned everyone. lol.

I would co sign that +15% base would be better but I think it's too late now. Should've warned the devs during PTS.
At this point your best option is to equip an ice staff or sword n' board and hold block.

Mariusghost84 · March 2021

PaddyVu wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I hate group because all of them can be fake tank, fake healer, fake dps and i cant stand it, toxic, they even insult me if i give them some advice, this is why i dont want to be any groups, even in 12 man trial, i can solo trial like nSS or nCR because those people insult me, make game unsoloable only make me return to toxic community, even in guild run, they still toxic.
I want to be alone in every dungeon, every trial, every content. I hope companion next patch can fix this.

RESPECT man! You do your thing!

fierackas · March 2021

Like others have said, you are clearly a talented soloist but you should be the exception, not the norm.

Grandchamp1989 · March 2021

Kurat wrote: »

It doesn't matter how much dmg you take without blocking. You're supposed to block or rolldodge bosses heavys. I've tanked tons of vet dlc dungeons and trials after the patch and I'm taking less dmg now while blocking. That's all what matters. If you wanna solo harder group content as dps then just rolldodge more, kite, watch where you stand etc, in other words l2p. You cant just use vet content bosses as target dummy's anymore when soloing, and that's a good thing. Mitigation is in good spot atm.

This is the right answer this patch.

unblocked mitigation is down. We knew it months in advance.

DD's must learn to roll dodge time now.
Tank must learn to time their blocks now and roll dodge, when needed, while keeping ressources up
Healing matters more since AOEs are more unforgiving, same with DOT dmg, so the healer can't be half asleep anymore by the keyboard. Illustrious and Regen needs to be pre applied and stacked before everyone takes massive damage and not after where it's too late.

Scardan · March 2021

Seraphayel wrote: »

PaddyVu wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I hate group because all of them can be fake tank, fake healer, fake dps and i cant stand it, toxic, they even insult me if i give them some advice, this is why i dont want to be any groups, even in 12 man trial, i can solo trial like nSS or nCR because those people insult me, make game unsoloable only make me return to toxic community, even in guild run, they still toxic.
I want to be alone in every dungeon, every trial, every content. I hope companion next patch can fix this.

What you achieve is very impressive, but your attitude in an MMORPG isn't really working for me. Yes, (a lot of) players can be toxic, but this still is an online multiplayer game and dungeons and trials are a type of content that's designed for multiplayer. Especially trials and veteran content should not be soluble per se. If your skill is so high you can do it: great! But it shouldn't be the new normal.

I'm learning a lot of things in this thread which is very nice and appreciated and again, what you're able to do is very impressive.

Online games being online does not obligate anyone to group with anybody to do some stuff. If they do it, it is from my experience usually a cheap game design to avoid balancing work or to hide bad balancing (Fiesta Online flashbacks, even overland grindy questing was supposed to be a group activity) under the excuse "but it is MMORPG! You have to play TOGETHER!!!11". No, lol. Massive multiplayer means just the base mechanic of the game - server where many people run in instances and see each other at once.

"But this is supposed to be multiplayer only content" does not work as argument. If somebody is skilled enough to run it solo, let them enjoy it, the rest is this is none of our business.

Mindcr0w · March 2021

Scardan wrote: »

Anyway, imho it is none of our business for what was a content designed, if somebody is skilled enough to run it solo, let them enjoy it. "But this is supposed to be multiplayer only content" does not work as argument.

It sure as hell does when it is being used as a counterargument to "I can't solo this content, therefore the game is wrong/bad/balanced poorly/etc".

Scardan · March 2021

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

Anyway, imho it is none of our business for what was a content designed, if somebody is skilled enough to run it solo, let them enjoy it. "But this is supposed to be multiplayer only content" does not work as argument.

It sure as hell does when it is being used as a counterargument to "I can't solo this content, therefore the game is wrong/bad/balanced poorly/etc".

Only those who have never played will believe them. And even then, that one will be deceived, because even in order to solo Wayrest Sewers 1, you need to have at least some kind of trained muscle memory.

Seraphayel · March 2021

Scardan wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

PaddyVu wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I hate group because all of them can be fake tank, fake healer, fake dps and i cant stand it, toxic, they even insult me if i give them some advice, this is why i dont want to be any groups, even in 12 man trial, i can solo trial like nSS or nCR because those people insult me, make game unsoloable only make me return to toxic community, even in guild run, they still toxic.
I want to be alone in every dungeon, every trial, every content. I hope companion next patch can fix this.

What you achieve is very impressive, but your attitude in an MMORPG isn't really working for me. Yes, (a lot of) players can be toxic, but this still is an online multiplayer game and dungeons and trials are a type of content that's designed for multiplayer. Especially trials and veteran content should not be soluble per se. If your skill is so high you can do it: great! But it shouldn't be the new normal.

I'm learning a lot of things in this thread which is very nice and appreciated and again, what you're able to do is very impressive.

Online games being online does not obligate anyone to group with anybody to do some stuff. If they do it, it is from my experience usually a cheap game design to avoid balancing work or to hide bad balancing (Fiesta Online flashbacks, even overland grindy questing was supposed to be a group activity) under the excuse "but it is MMORPG! You have to play TOGETHER!!!11". No, lol. Massive multiplayer means just the base mechanic of the game - server where many people run in instances and see each other at once.

"But this is supposed to be multiplayer only content" does not work as argument. If somebody is skilled enough to run it solo, let them enjoy it, the rest is this is none of our business.

We're talking about group dungeons and group trials. This is multiplayer content and should be designed around that aspect (which it is) so yes, the argument multiplayer only content works in these cases.

As I said, if somebody is skilled enough to do it solo, great! But do not make it a prerequisite. If you're not able to do it (anymore) don't ask for adjustments to be able to solo it (again).

Marcus_Thracius · March 2021

15%.? I want 95% dmg reduction - and I want it NOW
I want to be able to eat , watch a movie and afk in eso and still complete trials - its 2021 ZOS - I want to make no effort for my rewards !!!!!!!!

PaddyVu · March 2021

Seraphayel wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

PaddyVu wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I hate group because all of them can be fake tank, fake healer, fake dps and i cant stand it, toxic, they even insult me if i give them some advice, this is why i dont want to be any groups, even in 12 man trial, i can solo trial like nSS or nCR because those people insult me, make game unsoloable only make me return to toxic community, even in guild run, they still toxic.
I want to be alone in every dungeon, every trial, every content. I hope companion next patch can fix this.

What you achieve is very impressive, but your attitude in an MMORPG isn't really working for me. Yes, (a lot of) players can be toxic, but this still is an online multiplayer game and dungeons and trials are a type of content that's designed for multiplayer. Especially trials and veteran content should not be soluble per se. If your skill is so high you can do it: great! But it shouldn't be the new normal.

I'm learning a lot of things in this thread which is very nice and appreciated and again, what you're able to do is very impressive.

Online games being online does not obligate anyone to group with anybody to do some stuff. If they do it, it is from my experience usually a cheap game design to avoid balancing work or to hide bad balancing (Fiesta Online flashbacks, even overland grindy questing was supposed to be a group activity) under the excuse "but it is MMORPG! You have to play TOGETHER!!!11". No, lol. Massive multiplayer means just the base mechanic of the game - server where many people run in instances and see each other at once.

"But this is supposed to be multiplayer only content" does not work as argument. If somebody is skilled enough to run it solo, let them enjoy it, the rest is this is none of our business.

We're talking about group dungeons and group trials. This is multiplayer content and should be designed around that aspect (which it is) so yes, the argument multiplayer only content works in these cases.

As I said, if somebody is skilled enough to do it solo, great! But do not make it a prerequisite. If you're not able to do it (anymore) don't ask for adjustments to be able to solo it (again).

Not only in PvE, but in PvP also, u dont want to take 15k PER jab dont u? Because i'm mainly PvE, so i mention PvE more than PvP. But PvP still need some adjustment. 30k hp 36k resist, killed in 1.5s with jab. 50k hp 33k resist, killed in 0.1s with minefield.

Scardan · March 2021

Seraphayel wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

PaddyVu wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I hate group because all of them can be fake tank, fake healer, fake dps and i cant stand it, toxic, they even insult me if i give them some advice, this is why i dont want to be any groups, even in 12 man trial, i can solo trial like nSS or nCR because those people insult me, make game unsoloable only make me return to toxic community, even in guild run, they still toxic.
I want to be alone in every dungeon, every trial, every content. I hope companion next patch can fix this.

What you achieve is very impressive, but your attitude in an MMORPG isn't really working for me. Yes, (a lot of) players can be toxic, but this still is an online multiplayer game and dungeons and trials are a type of content that's designed for multiplayer. Especially trials and veteran content should not be soluble per se. If your skill is so high you can do it: great! But it shouldn't be the new normal.

I'm learning a lot of things in this thread which is very nice and appreciated and again, what you're able to do is very impressive.

Online games being online does not obligate anyone to group with anybody to do some stuff. If they do it, it is from my experience usually a cheap game design to avoid balancing work or to hide bad balancing (Fiesta Online flashbacks, even overland grindy questing was supposed to be a group activity) under the excuse "but it is MMORPG! You have to play TOGETHER!!!11". No, lol. Massive multiplayer means just the base mechanic of the game - server where many people run in instances and see each other at once.

"But this is supposed to be multiplayer only content" does not work as argument. If somebody is skilled enough to run it solo, let them enjoy it, the rest is this is none of our business.

We're talking about group dungeons and group trials. This is multiplayer content and should be designed around that aspect (which it is) so yes, the argument multiplayer only content works in these cases.

As I said, if somebody is skilled enough to do it solo, great! But do not make it a prerequisite. If you're not able to do it (anymore) don't ask for adjustments to be able to solo it (again).

From just a regular player - nope, does not work. Devs can argue like that, they have their visions and are in charge, it is their business. We do not get hurt when somebody solo dungeon, in opposite - it is enjoyable to watch on youtube.

Mindcr0w · March 2021

Scardan wrote: »

From just a regular player - nope, does not work. Devs can argue like that, they have their visions and are in charge, it is their business. We do not get hurt when somebody solo dungeon, in opposite - it is enjoyable to watch on youtube.

You're completely ignoring the fact that no one is actually arguing that it should be impossible for anyone to figure out a way to solo group content.

The actual argument being made is that no one should be asking for adjustments to game balance to make soloing group content easier. Which is what op has been doing from the start.

MisterKarnos · March 2021

Are you sure we playing the same game? Mitigation went way UP here is an unblocked swipe from olms

preevious · March 2021

PaddyVu wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

For PVE, I see no real difference.

The extra HP makes up for the lost mitigation, I don't die more than before . Actually, when I'll have enough CP to buy the mitigation passives, I anticipate to be a little sturdier than pre-patch.
Of course, it means that more heals are needed to keep the same survivability.

For PVP, I don't know, since I don't play, but ..
You guys already had additional HP, so, you just lost mitigation while gaining nothing.
I see how it can be an issue.

Extra hp is worthless, it doesnt help with mitigation, instead make healer work harder since u take 30-60% more dmg than before. Like Kiln boss in vUG, 22k hp 15k resist, he only hit me for 18k with his swing ( if u watch my solo, u should know that's the easiest boss in that dungeon ) now 24k hp 15k resist, he hit me for 26k, one shot. Cant solo anymore.

Precisely, and I think it's a good thing.

I'm sorry for your ability to solo content (though one is not supposed to solo them), but anything that makes healers more relevant is a great thing in my book.

I'm a DD, and I condider healer to be a necessity in most content for the heals, of courses, but also for the support/sustain they bring.

Any change that makes it less likely fake healer will stay desirable is good and must be implemented.

HankTwo · March 2021

PaddyVu wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

PaddyVu wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I hate group because all of them can be fake tank, fake healer, fake dps and i cant stand it, toxic, they even insult me if i give them some advice, this is why i dont want to be any groups, even in 12 man trial, i can solo trial like nSS or nCR because those people insult me, make game unsoloable only make me return to toxic community, even in guild run, they still toxic.
I want to be alone in every dungeon, every trial, every content. I hope companion next patch can fix this.

What you achieve is very impressive, but your attitude in an MMORPG isn't really working for me. Yes, (a lot of) players can be toxic, but this still is an online multiplayer game and dungeons and trials are a type of content that's designed for multiplayer. Especially trials and veteran content should not be soluble per se. If your skill is so high you can do it: great! But it shouldn't be the new normal.

I'm learning a lot of things in this thread which is very nice and appreciated and again, what you're able to do is very impressive.

Online games being online does not obligate anyone to group with anybody to do some stuff. If they do it, it is from my experience usually a cheap game design to avoid balancing work or to hide bad balancing (Fiesta Online flashbacks, even overland grindy questing was supposed to be a group activity) under the excuse "but it is MMORPG! You have to play TOGETHER!!!11". No, lol. Massive multiplayer means just the base mechanic of the game - server where many people run in instances and see each other at once.

"But this is supposed to be multiplayer only content" does not work as argument. If somebody is skilled enough to run it solo, let them enjoy it, the rest is this is none of our business.

We're talking about group dungeons and group trials. This is multiplayer content and should be designed around that aspect (which it is) so yes, the argument multiplayer only content works in these cases.

As I said, if somebody is skilled enough to do it solo, great! But do not make it a prerequisite. If you're not able to do it (anymore) don't ask for adjustments to be able to solo it (again).

Not only in PvE, but in PvP also, u dont want to take 15k PER jab dont u? Because i'm mainly PvE, so i mention PvE more than PvP. But PvP still need some adjustment. 30k hp 36k resist, killed in 1.5s with jab. 50k hp 33k resist, killed in 0.1s with minefield.

If you die in any duel in under 2 seconds thats a big learn to play issue. It also doesnt help your argument that you are fighting full on glass canons that could probably be one shotted even by a balanced build themselves. And that minefield remark is a huge hyperbole since that is only possible in extremely confined places where all mines land on the exact same spot, which is not applicable in 99% of real fights (and especially not in honest duels since they happen on an open field). Furthermore, why did you just walk into them in the first place without even blocking them? Its such a dishonest argument...

Same with your complained about the Kiln boss in vUG. If he one shots you with 26k damage why are you not adding mitigation or adjusting your build to 27k health then (which is easy to do with stuff like tri stat enchants), and instead complain here on the forum? Explain why ZOS should care about that? If you want to solo group content good for you, but then you need to adjust your build if a big patch like this happens. And even if you are unable to do it after patch I don't see why ZOS should care about that.

Vanya · March 2021

The Decrease of 10%-15% as mentioned shall bear no fruit. One shot system mechanic has to go as previous mentioned in my post. I believe the recent Champion points changes have made you more vulnerable in certain scenarios.

Scardan · March 2021

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Scardan wrote: »

From just a regular player - nope, does not work. Devs can argue like that, they have their visions and are in charge, it is their business. We do not get hurt when somebody solo dungeon, in opposite - it is enjoyable to watch on youtube.

You're completely ignoring the fact that no one is actually arguing that it should be impossible for anyone to figure out a way to solo group content.

The actual argument being made is that no one should be asking for adjustments to game balance to make soloing group content easier. Which is what op has been doing from the start.

Maybe. I am not saint and I can lose the topic, especially right now, under alkohol. Not arguing with that xD.
Even for not soloing, I am still more glass canon with before, so buffing our damage mitigation could help in group content AND making some stuff easier to solo. You need to remember, OP does stuff not anyone can. Even with buffed mitigation like we had in prev patch. I cant for sure. THIS is something that gets ignored too.