Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 8, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 8, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available.
The Faketank plague continues and Zenimax does nothing but punish proper players.
-
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »What can zos do?
They could make pve tanking enjoyable for starters. Make it so a player with a sword and shield can kill things in a reasonable amount of time. So they can do quests and dailies.
Maybe more players will take up the roll?
That is something zos can do. Just a thought.
It already is for me. It's by far my favorite role to play in this game.
While I understand what you are saying that the general populace doesn't find the same enjoyment I do, I'm not sure what ZOS could do to make tanking more appealing to the masses without unbalancing them, since the definition of "enjoyable" that you are speaking about is burning down mobs with big damage.
If they made us super survivable AND gave us the damage to make us "enjoyable", then everyone would just play tanks. In fact, it might break the whole role concept entirely, because then what would be the point of DPS if everyone could just have heavy survivability and heavy damage, and then what would that do to healers if everyone had high survivability and bigger damage for faster burns?
I'm not against actual ideas. I'm not even inherently against breaking the whole trinity-system to begin with. But within the context of the game as it is, I'm not sure how that's done.
As it stands, the only thing I find unenjoyable about tanking is DPS telling me what sets I need to wear, and throwing a tantrum if I dare wear anything other than Alkosh / Yolna, or *gasping pearl clutching* god forbid I wear something that adds to my own personal abilities and survivability. But I simply just don't use those sets, and if a DPS has a problem with my setup, they can leave the dungeon and wait for another tank, while I continue to clear vet DLC hard modes.
I am not talking about “in dungeons”, I am talking about when tanks need to clear a delve, do a daily, clear the lions next to a mining node...
Make it an enjoyable experience when not in a group setting.Edited by BlueRaven on March 17, 2021 6:39PM0 -
Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »Agenericname wrote: »Maybe they should add an option to do random dungeons with just 2 or 3 people, then we don't have to wait for a 4th in the queue. That way we can do our dungeons with what we have, and you can queue and wait for a "proper" group. win win
That's probably the best solution that I have seen.
Not really. What stops the 2-3 people group from getting a "fake tank"? Also, this will split the queue and cause longer wait times.
I think you're not understanding what they asked for. They wouldn't get a fake tank because they wouldn't get anyone. They would just go "as is." Most would run solo or duo.
The issue is in part because the rewards aren't balanced well. This is about transmutes and XP. XP went up in value significantly when the patch dropped. It would split the queue, but it would also remove a significant number of fake tanks, because they'd just solo or duo the dungeons.
Okay, I see.
But fake tanks would still be in the "proper" group. Fake tanks are the ones that don't taunt and want a carry so why would they want to join the 2-3 man queue?. A better alternative to this idea is to create a no role queue, it'll still be 4 man but you don't need to select a role.
Most people, after a certain point, can solo normal dungeons. The idea that a tank is an absolute necessity isnt true for most groups. Some it is. Im not talking about whether or not its right, just about the necessity of it. So I think you'd find many only do it because the current system forces them to group. That alone would give fake tanks an avenue to get their crystals and XP without bothering others.
A non-traditional group would also work. Either option gives players more freedom as to where restrictions on real tanks, because of something DDs do, removes freedom.
Id be in favor of either option.0 -
Neiska✭✭✭✭Just quit tanking myself, for the time being at least. Because -
1. Solo questing/overland is painful, particularly with low CP. And -
2. Tired of more often than not getting people who have pulled 2 groups before I even talk to the quest npc.
Unless ZoS makes solo questing/overland/dailies/cp gain more tanker friendly, I wont be tanking. Why should I gimp my DPS to 1/8th of what everyone else has, to only particpate in 10% of game content, 80% of which are "gogogogo" people.
Here's some suggestions if the off chance anyone from ZoS actually reads this -
1. Un-nerf tank stamina/resource generation. Everything else is fine, but for low cp folks the rate of low stamina generation makes tanking as a new main near unplayable.
2. Make at least one or two "tank" skills whose damage scale off hitpoints. Just so tanks have at least "something" for when soloing and doing anything outside of a normal group. Even if it is a single skill, thats better than what they have now, which is more or less nothing. Trying to push sub par skills for damage is simply wasting stamina.5 -
Scardan✭✭✭✭✭Agenericname wrote: »I just got 2 faketanks in a row and now have a 15m deserter penalty. Why? Because twice I get a sorcerer with <19k HP that is a lazy piece of trash and skips to the front of the line. Proper players get punished whether they stay or leave and it blows my mind that you don't have the backbone to so much as lift a finger after all of this time. There are so many things the group finder can check for and does in other games, max HP being the most obvious and then skills and gear being more subtle. These clowns ruins the random grouping experience for thousands of people and a day and you have done literally nothing about it.
There really isn't much that they can check for that cannot be circumvented easily, as @mobicera pointed out.
The reason why you fake tanks is because so few real ones want to queue. Solve that and you'll solve the fake tank issue. If ZOS could wave a magic wand and somehow make all fake tanks go away, would there be a real tank to take their place?
Update 30; companions. No one will que ever again.
Do you expect companion to check the altars at Wayrest Sewers 2 while boss is draining me?
Edited by Scardan on March 17, 2021 7:01PMLet's be extremely precise in our use of terms.1 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »What is it that you think they should do? Ban them? Should they also ban players that just drop groups too? That'd be hilarious, when "but they weren't killing fast enough, so I left, and got banned for 24 hours" became the new "but fake tanks" threads.
Personally, I think one good option is the ability to self isolate from the group finder / match making process anyone you have on block list. e.g. let any player block another on their personal list, just like we can now - but key difference being have the match making system exclude pairing those players again. (and not just disable chat which is all it does now)
If relatively few ppl block you, no big deal - zero impact to your queue time. But if you somehow manage to *** off hundreds of players,. that alone should tell you something about the behavior of that person, and at some point, will impact that fake tank's queue time since they will be excluded from being matched with so many possible players.
0 -
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
If you know what you are doing, the boss doesn't move when you dodge. Depending on the skill the boss is using, you can usually either dodge against an obstacle, dodge through the boss without him turning, dodge back and move forward before he moves or move backwards and dodge back to him.the1andonlyskwex wrote: »lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »I can tank most dungeons with less than 20k hp using medium armour and a bow. (Dodge role op
) And while I'm doing that I even stack the adds way faster and better than most tanks with 40k hp.
Why would you want to execlude me from the group finder, just because I my tank in a different way than you imagine it?
Ugh, no. "Tanks" that rely on dodge roll constantly kite bosses out of ground-based AoE. They're worse than the fakes that don't even try to get boss aggro.1 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have found that putting Inner Rage in place of Whip and slotting Elemental Drain on my Magicka DK does just fine for tanking Random Normal Dungeons even with my paltry 23K health.
The bigger problem in my opinion is the fake DDs. They make the dungeon take longer than it should.Playing since beta...4 -
Selminus✭✭✭✭You're talking to someone with a finished NB tank in BIS that has spent hundreds of hours tanking [snip]
Scanning HP isn't enough? It's more complicated? [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on March 18, 2021 1:13PM1 -
Fennwitty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What can zos do?
They could make pve tanking enjoyable for starters. Make it so a player with a sword and shield can kill things in a reasonable amount of time. So they can do quests and dailies.
Maybe more players will take up the roll?
That is something zos can do. Just a thought.
I agree it should be more fun, including the ability to complete quests without training separate armor and weapon lines.
Unfortunately I think the game extremely oversensitive to player skill in DPS.
Tanks doing more dps in a low damage group would be welcome. But as soon as tanks start contributing to damage, high-end groups would require their Tanks to spec as pseudo-DPS for maximum damage.
People already want tanks to wear support sets. Giving tanks appreciable damage would change that into people wanting tanks to up their DPS and wear damage sets.
PC NA4 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's not against ToS to queue as fake roles. And why would Zos implement some kind of gear/hp check or punish fakes when they advertise this game "play as you want".
Fake roles don't go anywhere. It's the opposite. There will be even more fakes in randoms now after the patch. Everyone wants easy xp and transmutes. When you pug, always be ready to get a fake tank, healer or bad dps. Make sure you have self heal, enough mitigation and resources to not depend on anyone. Basically be ready and capable to solo the dungeon if you have to.
1 -
MalEducado✭✭✭Just queue as a tank with your tank, or maybe you want to be a personal tank, as for him in your guilds0
-
SeaArcanist✭✭✭I just got 2 faketanks in a row and now have a 15m deserter penalty. Why? Because twice I get a sorcerer with <19k HP that is a lazy piece of trash and skips to the front of the line. Proper players get punished whether they stay or leave and it blows my mind that you don't have the backbone to so much as lift a finger after all of this time. There are so many things the group finder can check for and does in other games, max HP being the most obvious and then skills and gear being more subtle. These clowns ruins the random grouping experience for thousands of people and a day and you have done literally nothing about it.
Enter random queue as a tank. never be disapointed. it all starts with sombody taking a stand for the good of the community. are you willing to make that sacrifice, become the tank and teach the newbies/noobs how to tank?0 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭or perhaps random is a "risk it for a biscuit" type of ordeal? honestly tho, this will stop eventually. atm champ points have increase. ya got pvpers queueing in randomly to level up again. they dont know too much about pve, so they will do w/e takes to get the dungeon started.
tbh im glad the shoe is on the other foot now ;p pvers were entering pvp and majority voting ALOT of pvp changes for years now. and finally we have our revenge, mwahahah!1 -
SeaArcanist✭✭✭or pvers took up slots in campaigns and iddnt contribute etc. or pvers enter bg's and dont contribute. Finally retribution upon the pvers. ah yes...1
-
OneKhajiitCrimeWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭As someone who Tanks and will occasionally queue for randoms as a "good deed" I've had some of my best and worst experiences in random vets.
From the group of 3 190'ish CP's who had low damage and apologised as soon as I loaded in (pre fighting anything) for a vCoH1 and I was making damn sure they got through the dungeon, to the "Oooh look at me" sorts who thought bringing 3 PvP specs in to vet Frostvault was a good idea and expected me to spend hours trying to drag them through.
Being an actual tank in the vet random queue is rarely dull, but a lot of times can be thankless. Occasionally it has its glorious moments though.
I have nothing against pre-made groups going 4 dd's or whatever, but most fake tanks que up knowing that their decision is potentially gonna screw some low CP player over. Then again, selfish players care little for the health of the game.Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!4 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maybe they should add an option to do random dungeons with just 2 or 3 people, then we don't have to wait for a 4th in the queue. That way we can do our dungeons with what we have, and you can queue and wait for a "proper" group. win win
I suggested an option to queue in a group that isn't confined to the norm. You would join the same queue but would be willing to join a group that might be four DPS, two DPS and two tanks, four healers or whatever. The game would first try to form the typical group being two DPS one healer one tank. If a tank wasn't in queue the first four players that opted for the anything goes group would be put together and off they go. Players that want the normal dynamic would be the priority when there is all four roles available in the queue.
For most normal dungeons I think it would work well. For some of the vet dungeons it could be a bit more interesting than what the group was hoping.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »What is it that you think they should do? Ban them? Should they also ban players that just drop groups too? That'd be hilarious, when "but they weren't killing fast enough, so I left, and got banned for 24 hours" became the new "but fake tanks" threads.
Personally, I think one good option is the ability to self isolate from the group finder / match making process anyone you have on block list. e.g. let any player block another on their personal list, just like we can now - but key difference being have the match making system exclude pairing those players again. (and not just disable chat which is all it does now)
If relatively few ppl block you, no big deal - zero impact to your queue time. But if you somehow manage to *** off hundreds of players,. that alone should tell you something about the behavior of that person, and at some point, will impact that fake tank's queue time since they will be excluded from being matched with so many possible players.
One problem with this is maybe I have some players blocked and maybe you have other players blocked. If the game decides we are going to be in a group it will have to look for players on neither of our lists. Wouldn't be a problem most the time but we all know there are players that would fill their ignore list with people they think fall a little short hoping to only get good players in their group. That could lead to problems.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
p00tx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you're on PC, they might have just respecced to do damage, since the average players who queues as a dps does -347765476 dps and usually just stands too far away from the boss and does nothing but light/heavy attack while messing up the mechanics and making it harder for anyone else to do damage and making a simple instance take forever. I can tank on my healer in light armor with 19k hp pretty easily in base game dungeons, and sorcs can throw on one or two innate skills that allow them to do the same. This game doesn't require someone to have a ridiculous amount of HP.PC/Xbox NA
Unchained | Unstoppable | Mindmender | Swashbuckler Supreme | Planes Breaker | Dawnbringer | Godslayer | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Tick-tock Tormentor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Stormproof | Grand Overlord | Grand Mastercrafter | Master Grappler | Tamriel Hero1 -
robertthebard✭✭✭✭✭robertthebard wrote: »What is it that you think they should do? Ban them? Should they also ban players that just drop groups too? That'd be hilarious, when "but they weren't killing fast enough, so I left, and got banned for 24 hours" became the new "but fake tanks" threads.
Personally, I think one good option is the ability to self isolate from the group finder / match making process anyone you have on block list. e.g. let any player block another on their personal list, just like we can now - but key difference being have the match making system exclude pairing those players again. (and not just disable chat which is all it does now)
If relatively few ppl block you, no big deal - zero impact to your queue time. But if you somehow manage to *** off hundreds of players,. that alone should tell you something about the behavior of that person, and at some point, will impact that fake tank's queue time since they will be excluded from being matched with so many possible players.
swtor does this, and it's hilarious when players that spend an entire group deriding everyone else in it wind up on the forums talking about the need for server merges because the game is dead. Hey, it's great that someone can ignore that "fake tank", but the problem is, of course, that everyone else can ignore the player that just drops the group, and they should. After all, that player is also costing other players time while they wait for their group to refill.
The easiest solution is to simply not PuG. Then you know exactly who's in the group before anything even gets started.0 -
Kurat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People who hate fake tanks often don't realize that fake roles reduce YOUR queue times also.1 -
WolfyRaps✭✭✭✭I Faketank every dungeon normal or vet exept VetDLC because of the shorter queues...
I simply can solo everything so the other players have either the choice to follow my rush and AOE pulls or vote to kick me because I ruin their gaming fantasy with my OP characters..
Edited by WolfyRaps on March 18, 2021 10:41AM3 -
preevious✭✭✭✭✭
✭I Faketank every dungeon normal or vet exept VetDLC because of the shorter queues...
I simply can solo everything so the other players have either the choice to follow my rush and AOE pulls or vote to kick me because I ruin their gaming fantasy with my OP characters..
Well, then, I suggest you keep your skill to yourself, solo the dungeon by yourself, and cease patting yourself on the back, thinking you are so great and other should just bask in your magnificence.
Leave us scrubs fending for ourselves, we don't deserve you.
really.
We'll all be better off for this, I assure you.
Edited by preevious on March 18, 2021 11:04AM13 -
AvalonRanger✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just got 2 faketanks in a row and now have a 15m deserter penalty. Why? Because twice I get a sorcerer with <19k HP that is a lazy piece of trash and skips to the front of the line. Proper players get punished whether they stay or leave and it blows my mind that you don't have the backbone to so much as lift a finger after all of this time. There are so many things the group finder can check for and does in other games, max HP being the most obvious and then skills and gear being more subtle. These clowns ruins the random grouping experience for thousands of people and a day and you have done literally nothing about it.
How much health amount does tank need?My playing time Mon-Friday UTC13:00-16:00 [PC-NA] CP over2000 now.
I'm Tank and Healer main player.0 -
WolfyRaps✭✭✭✭I Faketank every dungeon normal or vet exept VetDLC because of the shorter queues...
I simply can solo everything so the other players have either the choice to follow my rush and AOE pulls or vote to kick me because I ruin their gaming fantasy with my OP characters..
Well, then, I suggest you keep your skill to yourself, solo the dungeon by yourself, and cease patting yourself on the back, thinking you are so great and other should just bask in your magnificence.
Leave us scrubs fending for ourselves, we don't deserve you.
really.
We'll all be better off for this, I assure you.
I cannot solo for the daily dungeon xp boost (I need to be in the random dungeon queue) that I do on 4-5 characters out of 12 now for the cp grind..
Some pleople like it when I speed carry them.. So why the hostility ?
Edited by WolfyRaps on March 18, 2021 12:04PM0 -
preevious✭✭✭✭✭
✭I Faketank every dungeon normal or vet exept VetDLC because of the shorter queues...
I simply can solo everything so the other players have either the choice to follow my rush and AOE pulls or vote to kick me because I ruin their gaming fantasy with my OP characters..
Well, then, I suggest you keep your skill to yourself, solo the dungeon by yourself, and cease patting yourself on the back, thinking you are so great and other should just bask in your magnificence.
Leave us scrubs fending for ourselves, we don't deserve you.
really.
We'll all be better off for this, I assure you.
Some pleople like it when I speed carry them.. So why the hostility ?
[snip]
then ..
I'm sure some people love it.
But as you said .. it's "some". Still, you impose your gameplay, your faketanking and your mad rushs towards completion to all groups that are plagued with your presence.
And just because you wanna save time I'm sure you use for great things.
[snip].
I suggest you seek out people that love carries and sell them runs, instead.
[edited for baiting]
Edited by ZOS_Lunar on March 18, 2021 1:15PM8 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭I Faketank every dungeon normal or vet exept VetDLC because of the shorter queues...
I simply can solo everything so the other players have either the choice to follow my rush and AOE pulls or vote to kick me because I ruin their gaming fantasy with my OP characters..
Well, then, I suggest you keep your skill to yourself, solo the dungeon by yourself, and cease patting yourself on the back, thinking you are so great and other should just bask in your magnificence.
Leave us scrubs fending for ourselves, we don't deserve you.
really.
We'll all be better off for this, I assure you.
Better what ? Better talk about fake tanking ?
Easy solution always will be:
https://youtu.be/dtL9OdnnIEA
But to say how bad all is is simpler i think ?0
