The Faketank plague continues and Zenimax does nothing but punish proper players.

Selminus

I just got 2 faketanks in a row and now have a 15m deserter penalty. Why? Because twice I get a sorcerer with <19k HP that is a lazy piece of trash and skips to the front of the line. Proper players get punished whether they stay or leave and it blows my mind that you don't have the backbone to so much as lift a finger after all of this time. There are so many things the group finder can check for and does in other games, max HP being the most obvious and then skills and gear being more subtle. These clowns ruins the random grouping experience for thousands of people and a day and you have done literally nothing about it.

Nogawd

I am sure they finished the run, without you.

xAarionx

Not all dun need tank
Even veteran ones...

Some we Manage to beat HM With 4 dps...

mobicera

Because it's really not as simple as looking at max hp.
For 1 thing whatever you tell me is the required hp I can do it with less.
Second gear and skills can be changed.
Honestly the best way for this problem to diminish is also the least likely to occur.
The general group finder dps and player awareness needs to improve.
You can call me an elitist, call me anything you like but the blunt reality is real tanks don't use the random finder much, they can preform rather easily.
They preform because of both the extremely low average dps often times if a DLC come up insufficient dps to even clear.
As well as the negativity they may have to face by people projecting their failures and inadequacies on others, 10 fold if you dare offer advice.
This simply creates a situation most would prefer to avoid, a decent tank well they can avoid this really very easily.

Rukia541

As a tank especially you can easily form your own groups in zone chat by the daily npcs, ESO has too many variables to make a proper dungeon finder its just a YOLO tool for when you are too lazy to form a group.

AyaDark

Selminus wrote: »

I just got 2 faketanks in a row and now have a 15m deserter penalty. Why? Because twice I get a sorcerer with <19k HP that is a lazy piece of trash and skips to the front of the line. Proper players get punished whether they stay or leave and it blows my mind that you don't have the backbone to so much as lift a finger after all of this time. There are so many things the group finder can check for and does in other games, max HP being the most obvious and then skills and gear being more subtle. These clowns ruins the random grouping experience for thousands of people and a day and you have done literally nothing about it.

I thin they easely close just with 3 of them, sorry, that dissapoint you

lolo_01b16_ESO

I can tank most dungeons with less than 20k hp using medium armour and a bow. (Dodge role op ) And while I'm doing that I even stack the adds way faster and better than most tanks with 40k hp.
Why would you want to execlude me from the group finder, just because I my tank in a different way than you imagine it?

DigiAngel

Heh..had a similar run today and two yesterday. I just switch into "survival" gear, do lower dps, but at least it's consistent lower dps then waiting for a rez.

AyaDark

vDLC :

https://youtu.be/uop8VWld4lI

DD is not some dummy DPS think some people learn you about

Respect to good DD play, but no respect to DPS.

AlextheMuspel

With normal base dungeon I can tank and dps at the same time. I just need that fast queue to get into the instance. Most of the times with low-level teammates I basically solo the entire dungeon.

Tigertron

I solo normal vanilla dungeons that don’t need two player mechanics. I’m DPS and I just stand there and weave. No need to get out of the red. Just block heavies and burn them down.

I also don’t que as a tank but I don’t complain about fake tanks either. My que as DPS is never more than 10-15 mins.

Agenericname

Selminus wrote: »

I just got 2 faketanks in a row and now have a 15m deserter penalty. Why? Because twice I get a sorcerer with <19k HP that is a lazy piece of trash and skips to the front of the line. Proper players get punished whether they stay or leave and it blows my mind that you don't have the backbone to so much as lift a finger after all of this time. There are so many things the group finder can check for and does in other games, max HP being the most obvious and then skills and gear being more subtle. These clowns ruins the random grouping experience for thousands of people and a day and you have done literally nothing about it.

There really isn't much that they can check for that cannot be circumvented easily, as @mobicera pointed out.

The reason why you fake tanks is because so few real ones want to queue. Solve that and you'll solve the fake tank issue. If ZOS could wave a magic wand and somehow make all fake tanks go away, would there be a real tank to take their place?

amm7sb14_ESO

Nogawd wrote: »

I am sure they finished the run, without you.

This.

I am just as anti-fake tank as anyone, but if you're the DD trying to prove a point by dipping out... well... you are the most expendable and replaceable piece.

Tigertron

Agenericname wrote: »

Selminus wrote: »

I just got 2 faketanks in a row and now have a 15m deserter penalty. Why? Because twice I get a sorcerer with <19k HP that is a lazy piece of trash and skips to the front of the line. Proper players get punished whether they stay or leave and it blows my mind that you don't have the backbone to so much as lift a finger after all of this time. There are so many things the group finder can check for and does in other games, max HP being the most obvious and then skills and gear being more subtle. These clowns ruins the random grouping experience for thousands of people and a day and you have done literally nothing about it.

There really isn't much that they can check for that cannot be circumvented easily, as @mobicera pointed out.

The reason why you fake tanks is because so few real ones want to queue. Solve that and you'll solve the fake tank issue. If ZOS could wave a magic wand and somehow make all fake tanks go away, would there be a real tank to take their place?

Update 30; companions. No one will que ever again.

SidraWillowsky

I wish people would quit defending this BS.

There's nothing more annoying than waiting in the DPS queue because I'm a DPS only to get grouped with a fake tank.

I don't care how easy the dungeon is. I don't care that people say "I'm mAkInG iT eAsIeR tO gEt YoU iN." I care that people cannot be bothered to wait with the rest of us.

Yeah, the wait sucks. But I do it every damn time with every one of my DPS even though I could probably fake tank too. Because I'm not a jerk (in-game, at least).

Ackwalan

Have you tried putting them on ignore?

robertthebard

What is it that you think they should do? Ban them? Should they also ban players that just drop groups too? That'd be hilarious, when "but they weren't killing fast enough, so I left, and got banned for 24 hours" became the new "but fake tanks" threads.

Fennwitty

Tigertron wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

Selminus wrote: »

I just got 2 faketanks in a row and now have a 15m deserter penalty. Why? Because twice I get a sorcerer with <19k HP that is a lazy piece of trash and skips to the front of the line. Proper players get punished whether they stay or leave and it blows my mind that you don't have the backbone to so much as lift a finger after all of this time. There are so many things the group finder can check for and does in other games, max HP being the most obvious and then skills and gear being more subtle. These clowns ruins the random grouping experience for thousands of people and a day and you have done literally nothing about it.

There really isn't much that they can check for that cannot be circumvented easily, as @mobicera pointed out.

The reason why you fake tanks is because so few real ones want to queue. Solve that and you'll solve the fake tank issue. If ZOS could wave a magic wand and somehow make all fake tanks go away, would there be a real tank to take their place?

Update 30; companions. No one will que ever again.

I think ZoS' plan *is* just to push out companions and hope the problem goes away on its own.

Fake tanks and healers were always there, but got super pronounced with the introduction of the stickerbook and 10 crystal reward for random dailies. People need their transmute crystals, and their most efficient option is simply churn through as many random dailies as they can in a single day.

Before the 10 crystals per random daily, I wouldn't even think to run more than one or two random dailies a day.

With 10 per random daily, that's my best option when I need to make gear. You can get 50 crystals a day instead of 50 a month from PvP campaigns.

Now I still disagree with fake roles queing randomly. I've only very rarely seen a dungeon run actually go well with a fake tank. Even with terrible DPS, it's at least slow and consistent. With a fake tank who doesn't have any interest in tanking, you have stuff running all over, unnecessary deaths, and completely unpredictable fights.

Even if I look at the clock and the whole run took me half the time, I'm way more tired after cleaning up after and chasing others than if we just did it with normal roles.

the1andonlyskwex

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

I can tank most dungeons with less than 20k hp using medium armour and a bow. (Dodge role op ) And while I'm doing that I even stack the adds way faster and better than most tanks with 40k hp.
Why would you want to execlude me from the group finder, just because I my tank in a different way than you imagine it?

Ugh, no. "Tanks" that rely on dodge roll constantly kite bosses out of ground-based AoE. They're worse than the fakes that don't even try to get boss aggro.

Shantu

I don't know what anyone expects ZOS to do about it. DD's complain about fake tanks. Real tanks complain about bad DD's. It's a PUG. You're going to get players trying to game the system. That's life. Personally, when I run vet content, I make/or join a pre-made. If I run PUG's on normal, I just gear and skill up for both survival and damage. Seems to work out fine for me.

Viewsfrom6ix

People seriously don't understand what fake tank means. The bare minimum of a tank is to taunt the boss. Pulling mobs, debuffing enemy and buffing group are all bonuses.

Any half decent DPS player can slot inner fire (taunt skill) and tank any normal dungeons including DLCs. This is NOT a fake tank even if they have less than 20k hp. By doing this, the queues go WAY faster. You don't want HP, armour, skill, gear requirements in GF, expect your wait time of 20 mins to 1 hour.

I've tanked almost all DLC dungeons on normal with my 19k hp magsorc and I always pull mobs and taunt boss. I still end up doing 30-40% of group DPS. Because majority of DPS players don't know how to DPS and come on reddit/forums to complain about fake tanks. Start improving your DPS then you'll realize how unnecessary real tanks are in normal dungeons.

Disclaimer: I don't condone fake tanks ie (DPS with no taunt). Just pointing out a DPS can fulfill a tank role perfectly well in normal dungeons.

EpicHero

Maybe they should add an option to do random dungeons with just 2 or 3 people, then we don't have to wait for a 4th in the queue. That way we can do our dungeons with what we have, and you can queue and wait for a "proper" group. win win

Elwendryll

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Ugh, no. "Tanks" that rely on dodge roll constantly kite bosses out of ground-based AoE. They're worse than the fakes that don't even try to get boss aggro.

No? Just dodge through the boss? Or time your dodge early and go back in position before the animation ends for the monster abilities that allow it.

You can dodge and keep whatever you're tanking in place, it works, but it's harder than just blocking, and I don't expect group finder fake tanks to be doing that. If you're a good tank, you can tank as a dd. But good tanks don't often use the queue

Agenericname

EpicHero wrote: »

Maybe they should add an option to do random dungeons with just 2 or 3 people, then we don't have to wait for a 4th in the queue. That way we can do our dungeons with what we have, and you can queue and wait for a "proper" group. win win

That's probably the best solution that I have seen.

Viewsfrom6ix

Agenericname wrote: »

EpicHero wrote: »

Maybe they should add an option to do random dungeons with just 2 or 3 people, then we don't have to wait for a 4th in the queue. That way we can do our dungeons with what we have, and you can queue and wait for a "proper" group. win win

That's probably the best solution that I have seen.

Not really. What stops the 2-3 people group from getting a "fake tank"? Also, this will split the queue and cause longer wait times.

AlextheMuspel

Elwendryll wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Ugh, no. "Tanks" that rely on dodge roll constantly kite bosses out of ground-based AoE. They're worse than the fakes that don't even try to get boss aggro.

No? Just dodge through the boss? Or time your dodge early and go back in position before the animation ends for the monster abilities that allow it.

You can dodge and keep whatever you're tanking in place, it works, but it's harder than just blocking, and I don't expect group finder fake tanks to be doing that. If you're a good tank, you can tank as a dd. But good tanks don't often use the queue

Maybe good tanks need some transmute stones on his 18 toons?

BlueRaven

What can zos do?

They could make pve tanking enjoyable for starters. Make it so a player with a sword and shield can kill things in a reasonable amount of time. So they can do quests and dailies.

Maybe more players will take up the roll?

That is something zos can do. Just a thought.

Agenericname

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

EpicHero wrote: »

Maybe they should add an option to do random dungeons with just 2 or 3 people, then we don't have to wait for a 4th in the queue. That way we can do our dungeons with what we have, and you can queue and wait for a "proper" group. win win

That's probably the best solution that I have seen.

Not really. What stops the 2-3 people group from getting a "fake tank"? Also, this will split the queue and cause longer wait times.

I think you're not understanding what they asked for. They wouldn't get a fake tank because they wouldn't get anyone. They would just go "as is." Most would run solo or duo.

The issue is in part because the rewards aren't balanced well. This is about transmutes and XP. XP went up in value significantly when the patch dropped. It would split the queue, but it would also remove a significant number of fake tanks, because they'd just solo or duo the dungeons.

Viewsfrom6ix

Agenericname wrote: »

Viewsfrom6ix wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

EpicHero wrote: »

Maybe they should add an option to do random dungeons with just 2 or 3 people, then we don't have to wait for a 4th in the queue. That way we can do our dungeons with what we have, and you can queue and wait for a "proper" group. win win

That's probably the best solution that I have seen.

Not really. What stops the 2-3 people group from getting a "fake tank"? Also, this will split the queue and cause longer wait times.

I think you're not understanding what they asked for. They wouldn't get a fake tank because they wouldn't get anyone. They would just go "as is." Most would run solo or duo.

The issue is in part because the rewards aren't balanced well. This is about transmutes and XP. XP went up in value significantly when the patch dropped. It would split the queue, but it would also remove a significant number of fake tanks, because they'd just solo or duo the dungeons.

Okay, I see.

But fake tanks would still be in the "proper" group. Fake tanks are the ones that don't taunt and want a carry so why would they want to join the 2-3 man queue?. A better alternative to this idea is to create a no role queue, it'll still be 4 man but you don't need to select a role.

amm7sb14_ESO

BlueRaven wrote: »

What can zos do?

They could make pve tanking enjoyable for starters. Make it so a player with a sword and shield can kill things in a reasonable amount of time. So they can do quests and dailies.

Maybe more players will take up the roll?

That is something zos can do. Just a thought.

It already is for me. It's by far my favorite role to play in this game.

While I understand what you are saying that the general populace doesn't find the same enjoyment I do, I'm not sure what ZOS could do to make tanking more appealing to the masses without unbalancing them, since the definition of "enjoyable" that you are speaking about is burning down mobs with big damage.

If they made us super survivable AND gave us the damage to make us "enjoyable", then everyone would just play tanks. In fact, it might break the whole role concept entirely, because then what would be the point of DPS if everyone could just have heavy survivability and heavy damage, and then what would that do to healers if everyone had high survivability and bigger damage for faster burns?

I'm not against actual ideas. I'm not even inherently against breaking the whole trinity-system to begin with. But within the context of the game as it is, I'm not sure how that's done.

As it stands, the only thing I find unenjoyable about tanking is DPS telling me what sets I need to wear, and throwing a tantrum if I dare wear anything other than Alkosh / Yolna, or *gasping pearl clutching* god forbid I wear something that adds to my own personal abilities and survivability. But I simply just don't use those sets, and if a DPS has a problem with my setup, they can leave the dungeon and wait for another tank, while I continue to clear vet DLC hard modes.

Wolfpaw

I know of two great solutions, of course nothing is full proof.

1. Dual specialization ooc: attributes, cp, skills.
2. Copy GW2 LFG System - this would be almost full proof fitting everyone's playstyle.