There was the nice pony surprise.
There was the fact the immovable WORKED IN COMBAT. Outside Roe. Against the pugling horde!
And the fact skills went out.

Most of us had promised to sell our souls just for the later.

So after all those tests, it was actually the old programming at fault.
I'd be in a forgiving mood since skills went out but not feeling it yet.
Maybe if they still work on the weekend?
OH WAIT THE ADDONS AREN'T WORKING
Could, perhaps, addons be a 'thing'?

Then I realised I was dead more than alive, which is a novel experience and pretty funny.
I'd taken a stamblade with 4.5k weap damage into a fight which apparently, was a 6.5k+ entry level experience, best done on a sorc that can streak to get away with no slotted crit star or no slotted regen star.

You know, the funny thing about those ball groups? They need to reset fights.

And right now, a healer cannot burst heal the damage per second. Unlike stam damage, healing was broken and scattered far and wide, and only so much can be slotted.

So bring on the sorc/atro/frag or stam meta -going to be a great ride

Shame so many are now excluded with skills, but not cp. If only there were sets that gave them support. Ya know, the gentle kind of support, like Seducer. Not the clutch won't-learn-to-play PTW ones. But no, guess they're all going to be perma dead for 7 months.

Earthewen wrote: »

The disparity between the classes is as pronounced as ever. You never did work on balance or get that right so now with more tools to suspend damage, that is pretty much all we'll see for six months until the next change. Not sure very many folks are going to wait this one out. Only those with sorcs will be out for awhile. I pity any new players who attempt to come out and play pvp. Not sure they'll stick around for this.

Prepare for dodge roll monkeys and constant streak with all of us down to 11 or so sets to combat this.

^This.

I have no reason to play Magplay now lol. Every Sorc is running Overload and bigger shields now, huge pen, crit, and spamming la's. It's all I can do to simply tank it into a stalemate.

At least they can't kill me unless its lag. -shrug-

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I don't think stamsorc belongs in the same sentence as stamcro and stamden, but I agree with what you are saying about magsorcs.

Oh, I just spoke about yesterday - only very good or very creative StamSorcs belong into the same category as the StamWarden and Stamcro, you are right. When one can remember how the class was years ago, the present state of the class just feels like easy mode
StamCros appeared to be the strongest.

Been playing for a while yesterday, and even in my first match there were like half sorcs on each team. Now we will have sorc fest for another 6 month...

SavageChain wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

The disparity between the classes is as pronounced as ever. You never did work on balance or get that right so now with more tools to suspend damage, that is pretty much all we'll see for six months until the next change. Not sure very many folks are going to wait this one out. Only those with sorcs will be out for awhile. I pity any new players who attempt to come out and play pvp. Not sure they'll stick around for this.

Prepare for dodge roll monkeys and constant streak with all of us down to 11 or so sets to combat this.

I have been playing for 5 hours yesterday on one of the weakest classes out there, and not a single chrystal frag was in one of my death recaps.

When people stop whining, they might realise, that yes, there are some overperforming classes (Stamcro, StamSorc, StamWarden), but also a lot of okayish classes (MagSorc, MagDK, Stamblade, MagTemplar, Stemplar)

If MagSorcs are a real problem for you, tell me your build and skill setup, and I will help you. Veteran players don't consider MagSorcs as anything but a Noobkiller class for a reason.

By the way, there are far more than 11 sets that work. Even many proc sets have a working stat bonus. Just the proc is deactivated.

How coincidental....I also played for several hours yesterday and found----what you say to be not only wrong, but absurd. Each group seemed to gain more sorcs and nb's over the course of the night till it was about 60% sorc and rest nb's. Personally since you claim to be a vet and qualify the disparaging comments you make hiding behind that---maybe you could just offer up the build you had that ignored crystal frags (odd thing is real vets dont worry about frags- its mages wrath and haunting curse) I would say with claims you have made its necessary at this point, particularly if you claim that people who say class balance is off are 'whiners'.

Here is the deal there vet, sorcs have most damage in game, most mobility in game and every possible tool at low cost even spamable in most cases to be able to streak in and out with massive shields- stunning, shattering prison and if not immobilized they are refunded the cost----free damage and cc. Couple that with mistform when they get into trouble (reduced damage by 75%, you do indeed heal while in mistform with hots on you, and movement speed boost, immunity for duration from cc's for ........no cost) They told us long ago streaking in succession was made impossible as to ramping up cost- however we see 6-7-8 streaks again with resources still in tank for fights. Then.....THEN you look at the damage toolkit they have.

And I wont even get started on nb's with the engage, not engage from stealth bonus, ability to go invis to remove damage from dots and pressure applied, movment speed increases ect from that kit. Something no other class could do in combat- and that would be ok, if you did not suspend damage and boost heals.

Dear opposer of claimed veteran player....

Please tell me when heals started to affect people in mistform (hint: they dont). Also I havent personally seen a magsorc use mist in months or years...there is like one vid of one, which for sure is more than a year old, but no sorc normally uses mistform, when he can use streak.

Dear player who is merely monitoring posts and not being passive aggressive in posting others are wrong, incorrectly: Here is big hint, if you have hots on you BEFORE you mistform (or even during) those hots do not show on your bar while in mistform, they build up and are dumped on you after it ends---all the hots. The player goes from say 7k health to 20k in a second or two after the mistform ends without healing themselves.

Passive aggressive posting styles are thinly veiled at best- 'Opposer' is strong word. One does not 'oppose' someone who dismisses someone else's experience and insults them at the same time......that is more of 'pushback' for snotty language. Before you ask, I again tested this in guild seconds before posting this to ensure it STILL works like that. As far as you personally not seeing it, I guess it shows how ones experience and what they see is not the reality that others have and why also its best to not be snotty and name-call others who see a completely different play happening. Could be you want me to change the statement from 'getting hots while in mistform' to 'hots build up and are dumped all at one time after it ends while you have 75% damage reduction' and you may have a case there. I could have been more detailed in listing how it works, but then again when speaking with 'vets' I assume they know the difference in 'not showing you' and 'holding and building up till it ends, then dumping it all'

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Personally since you claim to be a vet and qualify the disparaging comments you make hiding...

Here is the deal there vet, sorcs have most damage in game, most mobility in game [etc].

Well, I offered help. You made statements about me that are not supported by the things you quoted, but you have shown a lot of the traits that you were accusing me of with this quote.

Back in 2016 we were roughly in the same situation as we are now (minus Stamcro and StamWarden), balance-wise. MagSorcs and Stamblades dominated the OpenWorld PvP.

But people are not stupid: Slowly, they did adapt, they equiped a morph of Defensive Posture here, and stacked some defense there, and soon enough the number of both classes decreased again.

The MagSorcs that were left at the end typically did not have those high damage projectile builds that people are afraid of right now - but were PetSorcs, or Crushing Shock Sorcs, who both are not significantly stronger in OpenWorld PvP than many other classes, but performed better against Duelist classes.

Of course, some will now find many reasons why Wall of Frost is a stupid skill, why Defensive Posture is too expensive, why purging Course is unrealistic even on Templar, Warden or Necro, why using Potions of Stealth and Speed is cowardly, or why Breaking Line of Sight, finding combat areas that fit to one's classes playstyle, or having block cost reduction is stupid, and this is totally ok.

But as soon as some people start adapting, the meta will shift, and like in the past, classes like Templars or MagDKs will become okay, balance-wise.

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

The disparity between the classes is as pronounced as ever. You never did work on balance or get that right so now with more tools to suspend damage, that is pretty much all we'll see for six months until the next change. Not sure very many folks are going to wait this one out. Only those with sorcs will be out for awhile. I pity any new players who attempt to come out and play pvp. Not sure they'll stick around for this.

Prepare for dodge roll monkeys and constant streak with all of us down to 11 or so sets to combat this.

I have been playing for 5 hours yesterday on one of the weakest classes out there, and not a single chrystal frag was in one of my death recaps.

When people stop whining, they might realise, that yes, there are some overperforming classes (Stamcro, StamSorc, StamWarden), but also a lot of okayish classes (MagSorc, MagDK, Stamblade, MagTemplar, Stemplar)

If MagSorcs are a real problem for you, tell me your build and skill setup, and I will help you. Veteran players don't consider MagSorcs as anything but a Noobkiller class for a reason.

By the way, there are far more than 11 sets that work. Even many proc sets have a working stat bonus. Just the proc is deactivated.

How coincidental....I also played for several hours yesterday and found----what you say to be not only wrong, but absurd. Each group seemed to gain more sorcs and nb's over the course of the night till it was about 60% sorc and rest nb's. Personally since you claim to be a vet and qualify the disparaging comments you make hiding behind that---maybe you could just offer up the build you had that ignored crystal frags (odd thing is real vets dont worry about frags- its mages wrath and haunting curse) I would say with claims you have made its necessary at this point, particularly if you claim that people who say class balance is off are 'whiners'.

Here is the deal there vet, sorcs have most damage in game, most mobility in game and every possible tool at low cost even spamable in most cases to be able to streak in and out with massive shields- stunning, shattering prison and if not immobilized they are refunded the cost----free damage and cc. Couple that with mistform when they get into trouble (reduced damage by 75%, you do indeed heal while in mistform with hots on you, and movement speed boost, immunity for duration from cc's for ........no cost) They told us long ago streaking in succession was made impossible as to ramping up cost- however we see 6-7-8 streaks again with resources still in tank for fights. Then.....THEN you look at the damage toolkit they have.

And I wont even get started on nb's with the engage, not engage from stealth bonus, ability to go invis to remove damage from dots and pressure applied, movment speed increases ect from that kit. Something no other class could do in combat- and that would be ok, if you did not suspend damage and boost heals.

Low Cost Spammable? (You mean the one with the cast time? Or Force Pulse and Ele Weapon which every class has access to?)

Streak (Ramping costs, on a build built specifically to utilize streak, you still only get 5, maybe 6, before you run out of resources, and all you are doing at that point is just streaking around.)

Massive Shields (At least two Id imagine) (That take crit damage, don't crit themselves, and don't scale to the number of players attacking them)
Streak

Shattering Prison (... not sure this is even remotely used outside of massive groups)

Mistform (Why would a Sorc use mistform when they have streak on their bar)

Frags (Dodgeable and telegraphed)

Mages Wrath (Dodgeable and telegraphed)

Curse (Purgeable and blockable and telegraphed)

A HOT of some kind (Probably Rapid Regen)

That is 10 skills right there. Already a full bar. And it excludes very strong staples like Boundless, Surge, Dark Conversion, or even Pets. Among just a few.

The truth is, a Sorcerer who is running all of the things you are saying Sorcerer's are running around OP with is severely limiting their capabilities. And a lot of the defensive Pros to a Sorcerer are often extreme limitations. Like streak. If a Sorc is streaking away, who cares, they are running from the fight. Let them run. If they are streaking through your group repeatedly, that is most likely all they are doing. The best Sorcs are only using 1 or 2 streaks for the stun. And shields are a joke in any outnumbered situation. They are laughably paper thing when put under any sustained pressure.

SavageChain wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

SavageChain wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

The disparity between the classes is as pronounced as ever. You never did work on balance or get that right so now with more tools to suspend damage, that is pretty much all we'll see for six months until the next change. Not sure very many folks are going to wait this one out. Only those with sorcs will be out for awhile. I pity any new players who attempt to come out and play pvp. Not sure they'll stick around for this.

Prepare for dodge roll monkeys and constant streak with all of us down to 11 or so sets to combat this.

I have been playing for 5 hours yesterday on one of the weakest classes out there, and not a single chrystal frag was in one of my death recaps.

When people stop whining, they might realise, that yes, there are some overperforming classes (Stamcro, StamSorc, StamWarden), but also a lot of okayish classes (MagSorc, MagDK, Stamblade, MagTemplar, Stemplar)

If MagSorcs are a real problem for you, tell me your build and skill setup, and I will help you. Veteran players don't consider MagSorcs as anything but a Noobkiller class for a reason.

By the way, there are far more than 11 sets that work. Even many proc sets have a working stat bonus. Just the proc is deactivated.

How coincidental....I also played for several hours yesterday and found----what you say to be not only wrong, but absurd. Each group seemed to gain more sorcs and nb's over the course of the night till it was about 60% sorc and rest nb's. Personally since you claim to be a vet and qualify the disparaging comments you make hiding behind that---maybe you could just offer up the build you had that ignored crystal frags (odd thing is real vets dont worry about frags- its mages wrath and haunting curse) I would say with claims you have made its necessary at this point, particularly if you claim that people who say class balance is off are 'whiners'.

Here is the deal there vet, sorcs have most damage in game, most mobility in game and every possible tool at low cost even spamable in most cases to be able to streak in and out with massive shields- stunning, shattering prison and if not immobilized they are refunded the cost----free damage and cc. Couple that with mistform when they get into trouble (reduced damage by 75%, you do indeed heal while in mistform with hots on you, and movement speed boost, immunity for duration from cc's for ........no cost) They told us long ago streaking in succession was made impossible as to ramping up cost- however we see 6-7-8 streaks again with resources still in tank for fights. Then.....THEN you look at the damage toolkit they have.

And I wont even get started on nb's with the engage, not engage from stealth bonus, ability to go invis to remove damage from dots and pressure applied, movment speed increases ect from that kit. Something no other class could do in combat- and that would be ok, if you did not suspend damage and boost heals.

Dear opposer of claimed veteran player....

Please tell me when heals started to affect people in mistform (hint: they dont). Also I havent personally seen a magsorc use mist in months or years...there is like one vid of one, which for sure is more than a year old, but no sorc normally uses mistform, when he can use streak.

Dear player who is merely monitoring posts and not being passive aggressive in posting others are wrong, incorrectly: Here is big hint, if you have hots on you BEFORE you mistform (or even during) those hots do not show on your bar while in mistform, they build up and are dumped on you after it ends---all the hots. The player goes from say 7k health to 20k in a second or two after the mistform ends without healing themselves.

Passive aggressive posting styles are thinly veiled at best- 'Opposer' is strong word. One does not 'oppose' someone who dismisses someone else's experience and insults them at the same time......that is more of 'pushback' for snotty language. Before you ask, I again tested this in guild seconds before posting this to ensure it STILL works like that. As far as you personally not seeing it, I guess it shows how ones experience and what they see is not the reality that others have and why also its best to not be snotty and name-call others who see a completely different play happening. Could be you want me to change the statement from 'getting hots while in mistform' to 'hots build up and are dumped all at one time after it ends while you have 75% damage reduction' and you may have a case there. I could have been more detailed in listing how it works, but then again when speaking with 'vets' I assume they know the difference in 'not showing you' and 'holding and building up till it ends, then dumping it all'

Thx for claryfying and yes, you should make your words clearly, because in mistform you dont get healed, period.

Also you totally left out the statement about mistform and magsorcs....obviously they never use it.

Anyway thx for the talk, the hot thingy surely will be fixed soonish, because it foru sure isnt intended.

Yeah yeah.....clearly its a 'me' thing. Gotcha.

I have marked the counterskills in bold and italic in the previous post. They will be enough to beat most MagSorcs in Cyro. For more precise information I need to know the specific class that is supposed to win against the MagSorc.

Soul_Demon wrote: »

The odd thing is it seems you appear to be more fragile than first appearances as if you are gonna tell others they are 'whiners' and you should be able to have someone point out that without breaking down in tears.....don't you think?

Or I just could have a rather balanced point of view.


One thing I failed to mention in the counterplay section: The strongest weapon against a MagSorc is a lack of emotional involvement. Do not fall to provocations, and do not take things personally. Accept your limits. Just keep your cool. Most MagSorcs prey upon the weak, but tend to streak away or switch targets when the victim shows any kind of resilience. Do not fall prey to emotions and follow them like a raging bull. When they have isolated the player from the zerg, they might turn around and suddenly kill the player who did not buff himself with projectile reflect/ absorb skills.

Another thing is to know who you are up against. Use the information you have at your disposal and then form correct expectations about the MagSorc's playstyle: When he is shield stacking, you know immediately that he is not using the class' full offensive power due to a lack of bar space. If he is using Defensive Rune, you might expect that he uses streak instead of BoL as a class stun, which greatly increases your chances to catch him if he wants to get away. If he has a clannfear, it is rather unlikely that he uses Dark Deal, if he has 2 pets, his ranged offensive firepower is probably lower than yours, but he is not that vulnerable in melee etc.

Soul_Demon wrote: »

Thraben wrote: »

Or I just could have a rather balanced point of view.

Or it could be that playing primarily No CP, as you do simply does not translate well over to posters who play Champion Point main campaign.....

Possible. But when CP campaigns are so vastly different, then one should be even MORE careful to ask for nerfs, at least as long as there is no clear CP distribution meta.

When it is has become clearer what the new Meta is, and when people start adapting to the MagSorc - threat again, then one can argue that something like BoL should be deleted from the game; not out of spite, and not "because a MagSorc killed me", but because the skill is overloaded and should receive the treatment other overloaded skills have received.