PVP players in battlegrounds matches that aren't death matches

Grandesdar · March 2021

I'm very bad at PvP, but those objective games are the only ones I'm able to dominate.
Especially if it's sub 50 there will be some cheesy builds with crafted gold gear out there to kill nubs like me. But they don't care about the score or winning they only care about their KDA, so it's easy to outplay them by having your tank to deal with them while the rest of us go complete objectives.
But sometimes things get personal and one of those players follow you like a stalker whole game. I guess that's what they're into, and I'm fine with it as long as I get the daily XP and repeat the same thing a day later.

OlumoGarbag · March 2021

Grandesdar wrote: »

I'm very bad at PvP, but those objective games are the only ones I'm able to dominate.
Especially if it's sub 50 there will be some cheesy builds with crafted gold gear out there to kill nubs like me. But they don't care about the score or winning they only care about their KDA, so it's easy to outplay them by having your tank to deal with them while the rest of us go complete objectives.
But sometimes things get personal and one of those players follow you like a stalker whole game. I guess that's what they're into, and I'm fine with it as long as I get the daily XP and repeat the same thing a day later.

And that is the problem. You shouldnt win a PvP game if you arent the better pvp team. Thats why the 4 flag or 3 relic design is flawed. It should be 1 relic and 2 flags. Which would still require strategic gameplay but wouldnt allow to avoid pvp. Also chaosball should give a huge snare.

In a functioning bg que you would have the teammates and enemies of your lvl to get better at the game and reach higher mmr naturally.

nqvarihs · March 2021

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand objective modes. The strategy is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the plays will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Chaos Ball nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into its characterisation- its personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these modes, to realise that they're not just fun- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike objective modes truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the strategy in Domination's existential move "holding block," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Zenimax's genius wit unfolds itself on their pc screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Relic tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎

ZaroktheImmortal · March 2021

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Grandesdar wrote: »

I'm very bad at PvP, but those objective games are the only ones I'm able to dominate.
Especially if it's sub 50 there will be some cheesy builds with crafted gold gear out there to kill nubs like me. But they don't care about the score or winning they only care about their KDA, so it's easy to outplay them by having your tank to deal with them while the rest of us go complete objectives.
But sometimes things get personal and one of those players follow you like a stalker whole game. I guess that's what they're into, and I'm fine with it as long as I get the daily XP and repeat the same thing a day later.

And that is the problem. You shouldnt win a PvP game if you arent the better pvp team. Thats why the 4 flag or 3 relic design is flawed. It should be 1 relic and 2 flags. Which would still require strategic gameplay but wouldnt allow to avoid pvp. Also chaosball should give a huge snare.

In a functioning bg que you would have the teammates and enemies of your lvl to get better at the game and reach higher mmr naturally.

Most pvpers I've come across even if they beat me it wasn't a thing of being better but down to build and gearing with the right gear and such you can make your toon able to dish out lots of damage and hardly take any and the majority would just spam an ability. If it was about skill then we'd have to make everyone on the same level ditch gear perks and whatever all together. And I have killed my share of them still using pve gear which some get upset about and end up hate whispering me due to this.

And if the other teams aren't focusing on objectives and lose due to this that's kind of their own fault. A good team of pvpers could dominate said matches by simply following said objectives and fighting off any who try to stop them. If they focus purely on just randomly killing without any focus of objectives or strategy then they'll likely lose. Being able to fight off others and be able to work with a strategy is the best way to win in fact in these others that aren't just kill kill kill.

Sandman929 · March 2021

Plenty of people in Cyrodiil who try hard to avoid PvPing too. There's nothing wrong with not liking PvP, it just seems that a PvP zone/activity is a weird place to find those people.

ZaroktheImmortal · March 2021

Sandman929 wrote: »

Plenty of people in Cyrodiil who try hard to avoid PvPing too. There's nothing wrong with not liking PvP, it just seems that a PvP zone/activity is a weird place to find those people.

Well cyrodil there are skyshards and such so I can understand that as much in fact what got me first to try cyrodil at all was that I wanted the skyshards. Sadly the ones behind the other teams gates requires your team to go for a scroll run so you have to hope you're on at a time your team is in a strong position and going for that. There's also some npc questing areas that are repeatable each day in cyrodil not all that interesting but you do get a title and such for doing them all.

Sandman929 · March 2021

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Plenty of people in Cyrodiil who try hard to avoid PvPing too. There's nothing wrong with not liking PvP, it just seems that a PvP zone/activity is a weird place to find those people.

Well cyrodil there are skyshards and such so I can understand that as much in fact what got me first to try cyrodil at all was that I wanted the skyshards. Sadly the ones behind the other teams gates requires your team to go for a scroll run so you have to hope you're on at a time your team is in a strong position and going for that. There's also some npc questing areas that are repeatable each day in cyrodil not all that interesting but you do get a title and such for doing them all.

That's fair. But I wouldn't consider it odd to find people in PvP environments primarily interested in attacking you.

Nyladreas · March 2021

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Well, explanation is quite simple.. people used to be able to choose the type of match they wanted, many enjoyed doing just Death matches - and objective games when felt being in that mood.

Then ZOS made it a full random queue what comes to the mode you get.

So it was just bound to happen that people would play every mode like it is the death match.

I enjoy personally the game modes:

- Chaos Death
- Crazy Death
- Deathmination
- Capture the Death

This, I honestly couldn't care less about any other mode than Deathmatch. Now, since ZOS insisted on removing our option to pick a specific mode I'll just treat every single mode the game randomly picks as a deathmatch.

Apologies to anybody actually trying to enjoy the scoring modes. I'm just a simple person trying to enjoy the game in my own way as I used to.

Soulshine · March 2021

Honestly I have experienced both end of this. Preface this by saying I always cue solo. I am a main healer in pve.

When I first started doing BG I had no clue what they were about, I just wanted the xp. I assumed (wrongly) that every match was just to kill kill kill people the second the ding! went off.... so I had whispers from my OWN teammates asking me w.t.**** are you doing??

Later, I got whispers again with the same question when I WASN'T doing that and just tried to follow the objective strategies after I had actually learned what they were about.

The lesson here is pay attention to your team and communicate.

If they are playing Domination like a Deathmatch, and so are the other teams to boot, then it's Deathmatch. If you are in a team that doesn't know what the heck to do, communicate. Take a glace an what is going on in the space from a vantage point for a few seconds and respond accordingly. It doesn't really take that long to do.

As others have said, the objectives all do require fighting other players and not outright avoiding them the entire time, even though yes avoidance for a time can be a strategy. I definitely do not have lots of player kills and often die quickly, but still find BGs very fun compared to the slog of Cyrodil, and when my team wins first place (ironically mostly in Deathmatch : P) I am super happy.

As for the whispers, I accept the fact that at some point they will come. It's the nature of the PvP beast. Cheers!

MurderMostFoul · March 2021

Seraphayel wrote: »

Deathmatch is the fast food / trash TV of PvP. Brains off and just into the battle. Kill kill kill. It’s nice when you just want to relax.

Domination and capture the flag require more than just that and enforce thinking or planning on how to play or where to go. With a tanky build it’s nice to just defend a point or cheese around with lava / heights. Yesterday I had several domination battlegrounds where I did exactly that. I was the only one defending the flag at the first floor of the IC bg map. If I was overrun I just ran outside and in most cases people followed me. As a Templar I always planned them to do this (most players love to chase low health enemies to get the kill), got them near the edge and yeeted them to death. I think I did this three times to the same guy before he realized what my strategy was. My team did. never lose the flag and I had a ton of fun.

Not saying that every domination bg is fun, sometimes you’re defending a flag and never see an enemy - but hey, that’s the game mode and a win is a win. What I wanted to say: domination and capture the flag can be a lot of fun. And deathmatch can be very unfun when you’re running into a tank + healer combo that is just unkillable.

I play a lot of BGs and I always play the objective. It is a myth to say that Objective Mode BGs require more thought or planning. DM requires just as much thoughtfulness and strategy. Objective Modes just change the thought process, but they don't require more.

The strategic considerations in Objective Modes are clear (when to defend, when to push an objective, choosing between objectives). But DM has equally important and thoughtful considerations (angle of attack, engage/disengage, targets to focus, targets to avoid, which team to pressure). In some ways, you could say DM requires more thoughtfulness because the strategic considerations are more nuanced.

regime211 · March 2021

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Has anyone noticed a trend of some players who treat non death matches as death matches? Not only I've seen teams not even trying to go for the ball in a chaosball match and I've had flag matches where two teams would fight over one flag for awhile and my team would grab all the other flags and they'd still be at it on that one flag but I've had hate whispers from people of teams that lost to me and who I scored higher from insult me cause they got more kills and their team lost and I pointed at the score and showed mine was higher and this was with a toon geared as a pve healer and that it wasn't a death match but they kept insisting they scored higher and continued with insults and then blocked me after several attempts of showing that this isn't a death match this is how this is scored. Is it just that some can't grasp the concept of this is not a death match? Do they think every match is scored by how many kills you got?

I'm one of those people. I just don't care for the other game modes. All I care for is getting the highest kills to be honest

FENGRUSH · March 2021

Any domination players have strategy guides published on how to capture the flag when the other 2 teams are fighting? I've had a few ideas on how to do it but I'm sure theres a few experienced battleground players that have mastered the strategic movement and decision making.

AlextheMuspel · March 2021

Artorias24 wrote: »

I queue for BGs cause i want pvp and not win a match by avoiding PvP.

PvP is always about strategies to get to the objective asap. As a year-long moba player, your goal should be destroying the other team’s base instead of getting a 20-0. In fact, teams that seek fights are usually noobs or low rank. The higher-end matches often end with a total of less than 10 kills for BOTH teams.

Seraphayel · March 2021

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Deathmatch is the fast food / trash TV of PvP. Brains off and just into the battle. Kill kill kill. It’s nice when you just want to relax.

Domination and capture the flag require more than just that and enforce thinking or planning on how to play or where to go. With a tanky build it’s nice to just defend a point or cheese around with lava / heights. Yesterday I had several domination battlegrounds where I did exactly that. I was the only one defending the flag at the first floor of the IC bg map. If I was overrun I just ran outside and in most cases people followed me. As a Templar I always planned them to do this (most players love to chase low health enemies to get the kill), got them near the edge and yeeted them to death. I think I did this three times to the same guy before he realized what my strategy was. My team did. never lose the flag and I had a ton of fun.

Not saying that every domination bg is fun, sometimes you’re defending a flag and never see an enemy - but hey, that’s the game mode and a win is a win. What I wanted to say: domination and capture the flag can be a lot of fun. And deathmatch can be very unfun when you’re running into a tank + healer combo that is just unkillable.

I play a lot of BGs and I always play the objective. It is a myth to say that Objective Mode BGs require more thought or planning. DM requires just as much thoughtfulness and strategy. Objective Modes just change the thought process, but they don't require more.

The strategic considerations in Objective Modes are clear (when to defend, when to push an objective, choosing between objectives). But DM has equally important and thoughtful considerations (angle of attack, engage/disengage, targets to focus, targets to avoid, which team to pressure). In some ways, you could say DM requires more thoughtfulness because the strategic considerations are more nuanced.

Deathmatch is just three groups of four people zerging. There are rarely 1vsX or 1vs1 situations. Deathmatch is PvP as easy as it can get because you don't have to apply any tactics, you're just zerging with your teammates. Saying "focus XYZ" isn't really hard and doesn't even need that much coordination as everybody instantly switches to the targets with lower health.

regime211 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Has anyone noticed a trend of some players who treat non death matches as death matches? Not only I've seen teams not even trying to go for the ball in a chaosball match and I've had flag matches where two teams would fight over one flag for awhile and my team would grab all the other flags and they'd still be at it on that one flag but I've had hate whispers from people of teams that lost to me and who I scored higher from insult me cause they got more kills and their team lost and I pointed at the score and showed mine was higher and this was with a toon geared as a pve healer and that it wasn't a death match but they kept insisting they scored higher and continued with insults and then blocked me after several attempts of showing that this isn't a death match this is how this is scored. Is it just that some can't grasp the concept of this is not a death match? Do they think every match is scored by how many kills you got?

I'm one of those people. I just don't care for the other game modes. All I care for is getting the highest kills to be honest

Why? It makes no sense unless it's done to turn or defend flags or assist while your group is chasing the relic/chaosball or defending it.

Going for kills somewhere around the map while totally ignoring the game mode doesn't help anyone. It's not like getting kills does benefit you either, playing the objectives gives you more points than that.

nukk3r · March 2021

AlextheMuspel wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

I queue for BGs cause i want pvp and not win a match by avoiding PvP.

PvP is always about strategies to get to the objective asap. As a year-long moba player, your goal should be destroying the other team’s base instead of getting a 20-0. In fact, teams that seek fights are usually noobs or low rank. The higher-end matches often end with a total of less than 10 kills for BOTH teams.

So much this!

Trigger-happy players tend to forget that outsmarting an enemy is also PvP. Yes, there's always an option to knock out an opponent in chess, you'll win in a way but it's not the objective.

Vevvev · March 2021

I've seen the trend and I'm all for it! Just means I'm going to win the match

MurderMostFoul · March 2021

Seraphayel wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Deathmatch is the fast food / trash TV of PvP. Brains off and just into the battle. Kill kill kill. It’s nice when you just want to relax.

Domination and capture the flag require more than just that and enforce thinking or planning on how to play or where to go. With a tanky build it’s nice to just defend a point or cheese around with lava / heights. Yesterday I had several domination battlegrounds where I did exactly that. I was the only one defending the flag at the first floor of the IC bg map. If I was overrun I just ran outside and in most cases people followed me. As a Templar I always planned them to do this (most players love to chase low health enemies to get the kill), got them near the edge and yeeted them to death. I think I did this three times to the same guy before he realized what my strategy was. My team did. never lose the flag and I had a ton of fun.

Not saying that every domination bg is fun, sometimes you’re defending a flag and never see an enemy - but hey, that’s the game mode and a win is a win. What I wanted to say: domination and capture the flag can be a lot of fun. And deathmatch can be very unfun when you’re running into a tank + healer combo that is just unkillable.

I play a lot of BGs and I always play the objective. It is a myth to say that Objective Mode BGs require more thought or planning. DM requires just as much thoughtfulness and strategy. Objective Modes just change the thought process, but they don't require more.

The strategic considerations in Objective Modes are clear (when to defend, when to push an objective, choosing between objectives). But DM has equally important and thoughtful considerations (angle of attack, engage/disengage, targets to focus, targets to avoid, which team to pressure). In some ways, you could say DM requires more thoughtfulness because the strategic considerations are more nuanced.

Deathmatch is just three groups of four people zerging. There are rarely 1vsX or 1vs1 situations. Deathmatch is PvP as easy as it can get because you don't have to apply any tactics, you're just zerging with your teammates. Saying "focus XYZ" isn't really hard and doesn't even need that much coordination as everybody instantly switches to the targets with lower health.

Perhaps in group queue, but in solo (my preferred option, partially for this reason) you don't see ball group v ball group v ball group very often. In that DM environment, using smart strategy is critical.