I can only speak from my own perspective but here´s how I see it:

Occasionally me and a few friends try to queue for BG´s knowing that we´ll be paired up against other premades. At the end of the day it´s what I find to be the most enjoyable experience when you get to fight other orginized teams. And it´s kind of a unspoken rule that regardless of the mode you get placed in, you play it as a deathmatch out of curtesy. However, it´s not always the case that all teams manage to get full 4v4v4 (one team might only be queuing as 3 people or sometimes you only get paired against one known premade and not two so it´s essentially a 4v4). Usually you´ve to sit in a queue for around 10-15 minutes to even get a game in the first place which is probably the worst part. And that´s ZOS to blame for never implementing a propper ranking- and queue system.

So here´s a scenario that´s not too uncomon:
* You queue up with 4 people, knowing that there is at least another full 4 man premade queing at the same time. You wait 10-15 minutes for a game and you get placed into a capture the relic game or a domination game.

* You see the other "known" premade in the same match but also a third team that has a "known" 3 man premade (that will play "deathmatch") + a random solo queuer that´s not part of the 3 man premade group.

* The 3 teams (which is now a 4v4v3 + the loner who solo queued) will play the game as a deathmatch, while the last solo player who ended up with the 3 man team will play the objective and end the game in 5-6 minutes by either capturing relics or flip all flags instantly.

* This creates an enormous frustration because what most premades wanna do is to get some good fights against other premades, but when you wait 15 min for a game just to have some random player end the match in 5 min by playing the objective, you can´t blame people for getting angry.

Also understand that scoring (the actual points you get) in a BG is completely irrelevant due to the fact that the leaderboard system doesn´t reflect actual skillbased play and there are several ways you can cheese and abuse things to get much higher scores than intended. Just as a sidenote.

Qbiken wrote: »

I can only speak from my own perspective but here´s how I see it:

Occasionally me and a few friends try to queue for BG´s knowing that we´ll be paired up against other premades. At the end of the day it´s what I find to be the most enjoyable experience when you get to fight other orginized teams. And it´s kind of a unspoken rule that regardless of the mode you get placed in, you play it as a deathmatch out of curtesy. However, it´s not always the case that all teams manage to get full 4v4v4 (one team might only be queuing as 3 people or sometimes you only get paired against one known premade and not two so it´s essentially a 4v4). Usually you´ve to sit in a queue for around 10-15 minutes to even get a game in the first place which is probably the worst part. And that´s ZOS to blame for never implementing a propper ranking- and queue system.

So here´s a scenario that´s not too uncomon:
* You queue up with 4 people, knowing that there is at least another full 4 man premade queing at the same time. You wait 10-15 minutes for a game and you get placed into a capture the relic game or a domination game.

* You see the other "known" premade in the same match but also a third team that has a "known" 3 man premade (that will play "deathmatch") + a random solo queuer that´s not part of the 3 man premade group.

* The 3 teams (which is now a 4v4v3 + the loner who solo queued) will play the game as a deathmatch, while the last solo player who ended up with the 3 man team will play the objective and end the game in 5-6 minutes by either capturing relics or flip all flags instantly.

* This creates an enormous frustration because what most premades wanna do is to get some good fights against other premades, but when you wait 15 min for a game just to have some random player end the match in 5 min by playing the objective, you can´t blame people for getting angry.

Also understand that scoring (the actual points you get) in a BG is completely irrelevant due to the fact that the leaderboard system doesn´t reflect actual skillbased play and there are several ways you can cheese and abuse things to get much higher scores than intended. Just as a sidenote.

What about if you select the actual "solo que" option will that put you in with any pre-made group matches or will it have everyone as a solo que? Cause I always select the solo que option. For me it's less about leaderboards and more of I want to get through this to get the cp reward for doing this and maybe get some collectibles. Though either way it's a bit much that they get pissy enough to go around hate whispering cause they lost to someone who played the match as it intended to be played. Last one was even trying to use mother insults or 'mom' as he put it then when I spelled it 'mum' he says where you from must be east coast....imagine not being able to think of someone not being in the US and hence not using US spelling of words.....but yeah I've had a few childish people behaving like that since they lost the match.

Qbiken wrote: »

Another problem I´ve with game modes like domination and capture the relic is that they reward the player for avoiding PvP. In these two modes you win by avoiding the enemy teams as much as you possible can. I don´t see any "strategic" or "smartness" in basically PvAvoid and it´s awful design that you´re allowed to come out as victorious by avoiding to PvP in a PvP based mode.

Crazy King is somewhat fine because it´s essentially deathmatch mixed with domination, but it also has its flaws once all 4 flags has spawned. The team who avoids the other two teams is the one who comes out on top most of the time.

Capture the relic is the same. Have 1-2 people sit at your own flag in full tank gear and have 1-2 others sit in sneak at enemy base waiting for them to leave and you´ll win every time. The mode needs a redesign so it forces teams to fight over relics more than avoiding eachtoher.

Domination is the worst of them all. You can have one team that you never see during an entire match because they´ll run away the second another team comes, and still end up victorious. What kind of PvP mode rewards a team for avoiding PvP? It´s absolutely ridicilous and is in dire need for a rework that forces you to actually engage with the enemy teams.

Well any smart team will have plenty of fighting if you've got someone defending relic the other teams will have to fight them to get the relic. The only way around this is if a team isn't defending. Although I did have a match where we were defending it from one team and another guy snuck up and grabbed it and ran quickly before we could stop him.

Although I can't fault them on that as it was the smartest move and it's honestly something I like about non death matches is that strategy and thinking out the best move to win is the key to winning.

And in a chaos ball match if you don't kill the person from the other team with the ball you'll never get anywhere. But the person with the ball should be the main focus. Then when your team has it defending requires well..fighting so yeah.

Also I'd mention I've actually killed pvper players on a pve build on several occasions. Usually followed by hate whispers even had one threaten to report me claiming I was cheating.

But back on the argument that if killing isn't the main objective means it's not pvp by that very idea Cyrodil and Imperial City aren't pvp. Cyrodil the main objective is to take keeps and the other teams scrolls to earn points not specifically to kill but if a team is defending and/or attacking yours then you will likely have to fight but if we're discounting anything where the main objective is killing then that means by that standard the only "Real PVP" is death matches. And if I didn't want to pvp I wouldn't be in a pvp match I simply prefer ones with a little more strategy then "kill" myself but everyone has a different preference. My main thing I thought was odd was how some get pissy about losing since they don't do said objectives and claim they actually scored higher when they didn't which is why I made this post. In these matches I'll fight but I'll also act on what's going to work best in a situation to get my team up in score.

Personally, i have played bgs like 2 times when they were first put into the game. I had NO FRIKKING idea what to do, i saw some objectives, i think they were relics, i had no idea where to get them and where to deliver, the other group members were running around in all directions, like whaaaaat. So i just killed all enemy players i saw. That was my bgs.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I mainly do BG s to PvP... So I tend to head to an objective to get in fights. I will defend and attack the chaos ball for instance, but it is pointless me picking up. I can't hold it for more than a little while on most my builds. I don't really have an tanky builds or slot major evasion. I will take relics hold flags etc... If there is a good fight that is where I'd rather be.

Oddly I've seen some super tanky builds that were still able to dish out a lot of damage. I have no idea how people do that both tankiness and damage dealing.

Players Vs Player, I like to do this by engaging the other players.

Rather than go to an undefended Relic spawn, pick it up and run across the map and score to win the game.

May as well do Material Surveys at that point, same amount of PvP but I gain more.

Tondodino wrote: »

Doing objective games is harder and requires more intelligence from the players to succeed. For instance, guarding a flag with a perma blocking tank, a health regen werewolf, and two healers spamming resto ults, is really big brain stuff. DM players just don't get what it takes to be successful in these intricate and mentally compelling game modes. That's why they are always whining. They just want to mash their buttons like cavemen hitting each other with sticks. PUHLEASE.

Here's some other examples of the immense amounts of genius it takes to win at objective modes. Picture this: you're geared as a full tank-healer and you're going in to take an unguarded relic with an immovable pot and major expedition! Wow!

How about this one: you're going to grab the chaos ball as a tank werewolf, and then you're going to sprint to a completely out of bounds corner, jump off the ledge of a wall, and sit comfortably in an unreachable and untargetable place while racking up the points... In fact, anyone who tries to reach you will fall to their death, and you'll win the game by a landslide. Seriously folks! This highly competitive game experience can only be mastered if you've earned college degrees in both philosophy and mathematics.

DM players just don't get it and they never will. They can't concieve of the mental intricacies it takes to understand this move: when you're guarding a flag and see an enemy approaching, you toggle your immortal mistform (which you've built to sustain forever after 5 mins of reading up on it via Google)... and you're going to leave that scary flag and go to a nice, peaceful, EMPTY flag instead where you can stand alone, and get the maximum amount of points for your team in the most efficient way.

Please, let us DM plebs choose our own modes.

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If the other team has anyone defending relic you need to fight or you can't get it and lose. In land grab at times you have to defend or fight over a flag or the other team can grab it and others if they plan properly. I often decide with flags like if it's their entire team I probably won't bother trying to fight them all for a single flag but if it's one person then I'd more likely go for it. Though I more plan out flags not just by how many if any are on it but I look at map and score if a team is ahead of mine in points I'll be more likely to grab a flag owned by them to lower their points and raise what we get so we can get ahead. And at times if I'm nearby I've grabbed the relic of a team that had ours so they couldn't use it until one of us was dead. And people on edges can be reached it's not as easy but I can hit them fine easier with ranged attacks but still. If you think that move is an instant win well I'm not sure how many of those matches you've played but I've taken them down myself when they've done that. Person with relic will try to keep it safe but I've never seen a situation where they couldn't be taken down.

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I mainly do BG s to PvP... So I tend to head to an objective to get in fights. I will defend and attack the chaos ball for instance, but it is pointless me picking up. I can't hold it for more than a little while on most my builds. I don't really have an tanky builds or slot major evasion. I will take relics hold flags etc... If there is a good fight that is where I'd rather be.

Oddly I've seen some super tanky builds that were still able to dish out a lot of damage. I have no idea how people do that both tankiness and damage dealing.

Proc sets... 🤦