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Current tanks problems and underperforming NORD in PVE.
AyaDark
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Hi. My main was tank, I start play as tank and now play on DD more, but I play tank too when other players I play with ask me for that.
https://youtu.be/4N-VFoXOh2A
In current patch Tanks get some problems, the most of them get tanks NORD.
First of ALL, why NORDS was good in PVE tanking.
It get 4+- k def. Now he has 2600. 1400 def difference do not sound like some thing immportant, but it really is !
Why ? Now on tank you can not get def CUP with all heavy gear with out it !
So you will need to change gear traits for that.
Nords were good, because you get DEF cup from the box with any heavy sets with no DEF on it. If you need to change traits, other races were better even before, but it takes more time and resources to optimize it and Nord was lazy middle, good, but not the best.
But "best for its money" from the box, with no gear trait changes.
In current patch - I do not see problem in survive one shot on tank, like others tell,do not know the reason of that.
But I feel real problems with resources. Tank do not feel good on Nord !
You need take Mundus to def or weapon trait to def or 3 body parts on def or 1 item set with def, to get CUP.
It is hard limitation !
Because nord is as tank slow and have no regen passives. Only ultimate, but its value look really small, if you use it in ultimate gain setups. ( When you can get 15+ ultimate per second, nords 0.5 per second is not even a small ammount in the ocean )
So for not ultimate gain setups, you need not it too.
You need better sustain.
But nord do not get it. Redgard has a little slow resistance and stamina regen in block. Even altmer can regen it in block ! Argo have better potion option.
Imperian is cheaper !!!
Nord just feells not good.
The same for mobility, to have better mobility i Use mundus to speed. Because not enough of it !
But no way to get better sustain.
So just protective rings and weapon on other tanks will be OK, CUP+ res regen is good.
On nord you have not enough of it.
You can make block cheaper, but all other actions drain stamina like crazy - but other races can just bypass it easely even in block.
So nord feels really bad.
And if you do not get CUP from the box, you need to change gear traits
And if you already need to do that - other races are better with another traits than nord can be.
So current NORDs are very bad ! It is the worst only tank race now !
PLS think about it. Or give some stamina regen in block, like other races have ! Or some movment speed.
Now Nord feels really bad. And you get much more better options on other races.
And nord is tank race, not like race for Tank + DD. And as tank it is really bad now.
https://youtu.be/4N-VFoXOh2AIn current patch Tanks get some problems, the most of them get tanks NORD.
First of ALL, why NORDS was good in PVE tanking.
It get 4+- k def. Now he has 2600. 1400 def difference do not sound like some thing immportant, but it really is !
Why ? Now on tank you can not get def CUP with all heavy gear with out it !
So you will need to change gear traits for that.
Nords were good, because you get DEF cup from the box with any heavy sets with no DEF on it. If you need to change traits, other races were better even before, but it takes more time and resources to optimize it and Nord was lazy middle, good, but not the best.
But "best for its money" from the box, with no gear trait changes.
In current patch - I do not see problem in survive one shot on tank, like others tell,do not know the reason of that.
But I feel real problems with resources. Tank do not feel good on Nord !
You need take Mundus to def or weapon trait to def or 3 body parts on def or 1 item set with def, to get CUP.
It is hard limitation !
Because nord is as tank slow and have no regen passives. Only ultimate, but its value look really small, if you use it in ultimate gain setups. ( When you can get 15+ ultimate per second, nords 0.5 per second is not even a small ammount in the ocean )
So for not ultimate gain setups, you need not it too.
You need better sustain.
But nord do not get it. Redgard has a little slow resistance and stamina regen in block. Even altmer can regen it in block ! Argo have better potion option.
Imperian is cheaper !!!
Nord just feells not good.
The same for mobility, to have better mobility i Use mundus to speed. Because not enough of it !
But no way to get better sustain.
So just protective rings and weapon on other tanks will be OK, CUP+ res regen is good.
On nord you have not enough of it.
You can make block cheaper, but all other actions drain stamina like crazy - but other races can just bypass it easely even in block.
So nord feels really bad.
And if you do not get CUP from the box, you need to change gear traits
And if you already need to do that - other races are better with another traits than nord can be.
So current NORDs are very bad ! It is the worst only tank race now !
PLS think about it. Or give some stamina regen in block, like other races have ! Or some movment speed.
Now Nord feels really bad. And you get much more better options on other races.
And nord is tank race, not like race for Tank + DD. And as tank it is really bad now.
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finehair✭✭✭✭If you ask me nords and orcs should switch their racials. Since the orcs were the heavy armor using steel plated tanks while the nords were fur wearing berserkers lore wise.
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AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭I am bad in lore so ... , but in Game Nords do not look good not as tanks not as bersercers ... .
Elfs have better attack power, so as berserker he do not look like one.
As tank it is bad too.1 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What about other races than Nord and Imperial ?
I think race doesn't matter unless you play min max for score run .
You tank pretty easy
I sometimes do the same test lol .
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ZaroktheImmortal✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am bad in lore so ... , but in Game Nords do not look good not as tanks not as bersercers ... .
Elfs have better attack power, so as berserker he do not look like one.
As tank it is bad too.
Well for ESO they went for the only thing this class is really good at is being tanky...then nerfed that sooo.2 -
Smaxx✭✭✭✭✭I guess you already answered the thing yourself:
If your racial bonus alone lets you cap out a stat without extra efforts, that bonus is just too good. Period.
That would be like asking for Khajiit (or any other race) to have like 13k armor penetration, because it would be easier to reach the cap without traits etc.
Overall, never build your character around racial bonuses. Create the character you want to play. That's a tip I always give to people asking for a "best class".
And yes, I'm a Nightblade Khajiit Tank sometimes also playing Werewolf (which also got hit by the armor nerf bat).12 -
Sangwyne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Plenty of people are talking about how Nord is a decent tank race, but forget that it gives up literally all else in order to do so. Imperials also make for a good tank race, and do more damage due to their 2k stamina, with more health, and more sustain; they even have a passive that affects ultimate, same as Nords. Nords have absolutely zero healing passives and terrible DPS passives to compensate for their tanking passives, and then aren't even allowed to be good at that. As a matter of fact, Nords are in the bottom 3 in terms of DPS, with every race other than Khajiit, Argonian, and Nord having either 2k Stamina/Magicka, 258 Weapon/Spell damage, or both. Of those three, Khajiit has their 12% critical damage passive, which just got buffed, and Argonians are also in a terrible spot and are in dire need of buffs. If our resistances are getting nerfed, we should have gotten something else instead, perhaps 500 Stamina, because as it stands now, Nords are near the bottom in racial passive value.1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭What about other races than Nord and Imperial ?
I think race doesn't matter unless you play min max for score run .
You tank pretty easy
I sometimes do the same test lol .
I can do it pretty easy even on DD elf, but difference is really big, because on some races it will be just like stand in permoblock, and others will have stamina problems.
On good tank race you will just have not endable stamina.
So it is bad that such big difference in game.1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Plenty of people are talking about how Nord is a decent tank race, but forget that it gives up literally all else in order to do so. Imperials also make for a good tank race, and do more damage due to their 2k stamina, with more health, and more sustain; they even have a passive that affects ultimate, same as Nords. Nords have absolutely zero healing passives and terrible DPS passives to compensate for their tanking passives, and then aren't even allowed to be good at that. As a matter of fact, Nords are in the bottom 3 in terms of DPS, with every race other than Khajiit, Argonian, and Nord having either 2k Stamina/Magicka, 258 Weapon/Spell damage, or both. Of those three, Khajiit has their 12% critical damage passive, which just got buffed, and Argonians are also in a terrible spot and are in dire need of buffs. If our resistances are getting nerfed, we should have gotten something else instead, perhaps 500 Stamina, because as it stands now, Nords are near the bottom in racial passive value.
Agree. Nord are worse in all option. Not tank, not DD not heal.0 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭With them nerfing Nord passive resistance with near 50% they're no way near top pick for Tanks anymore.
Redguard will give you passive sustain - 1k stam every 5 seconds while holding block just for casting out wall of elements, which cost magicka (and need to proc crusher anyway). So it's basicly 1k stam every 5 seconds for doing your job. Also all weapon abilities like your taunt, slash and wall are cheaper with redguard. You also get 2k stam and your bewitched sugar skulls will last longer.
Imperial will give you a cost reduction to everything (Action cost, ulti, skills) on top of 2k stam and health.
They stack very well with Sorc Tanks whom already get a cost reduction to their ulti and skills through their passives.
You can have everything really cheap with Imperial Sorc Tank.
Nord... Well.. You're no longer immune to frost and you get less resistances than before.
The 5 ulti every 10 seconds can be converted into ressources with a DK but 0.5 ulti pr second is extremely low for a racial passive - compared to what others get. They also get less Stam than both Redguard and Imperial, and we all know Tanks live and die by their Ressource pool. What they offer in resistances currently you can, almost, get back with a Defending trait. It's too low.
Nord is in such a weird place - you would never take a Nord for DD or Healer reasons, since the other races simply offer more.
And in terms of Tanking they're rated at a 5th place out of 10
What Zos failed to realize is that races are in constant competition with each other, and if you offer people are better choice elsewhere.. you'd be foolish not to take it.
Currently Nord are below average for me - can't recommend them.Edited by Grandchamp1989 on March 10, 2021 9:35AM3 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭Am I wrong, or does it look like you're getting almost no stam back for doing a heavy attack?0
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AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Am I wrong, or does it look like you're getting almost no stam back for doing a heavy attack?
Yes it look the same. But i do not HA to often, so do not even look at it. If real problems on tank it is no window for HAs.
So it is better to be always full of resources. And predict next movments to save as much as possible. If some race give you always full bar, HA is not as much need.0 -
oddbasket✭✭✭✭✭
✭Have I been playing it wrong? What is this cup that I need to get? Or do you mean the def cap?0 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »
FFS that looks really terrible for 4-man content without a healer.0 -
oddbasket✭✭✭✭✭
✭So far in U29, I'm having a blast on my redguard warden, so much resource synergies I'm easily topped out and some how my resists are higher than prepatch.
My nord Dk on the other hand lost about 1k of resists at 32k not being able to hit the martial cap unless I gold out my gear, but I've yet to test him in dungeons, still working on respecing my characters.0 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unfortunately, it was maintenance before I could try out my tank.
I got a huge amount of extra HP from this new cp system though.0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »
FFS that looks really terrible for 4-man content without a healer.
Tanks with builds for potions reload on Argo, stamina gain from race passives do not have such problems.
The same other builds like that.
But nord can not use such option. It is just like "can of beer". A little more def, but small sustain and not enough good options to shift to.
You need def to reach CAP, but the same time have not sustain and speed.
And speed is important to tank in some cases like vCR and etc.
And it is not fun when party wait tank that always run in some back.1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Narvuntien wrote: »Unfortunately, it was maintenance before I could try out my tank.
I got a huge amount of extra HP from this new cp system though.
The same more resources number, but it is OK with 42 k hp for tank on me, so now 45 is something not such important. But sustain is really not that good.0 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭I don't need to reach resistance cap and I also don't really care about the 2% less mitigation of a nord. Usually I'm not tanking on a nord anyway. However, getting almost no resources back for light/heavy attacks is an issue.1
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hakan✭✭✭✭✭Nah you cant downplay the passives, sorry. Still have 1k HP and 1,5k Stam with 2600 resist and ultigen. Frost immunity didnt matter and -1,4k resist doesnt break anything.
And bringing redguard to the conversation, LOL.2 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Nah you cant downplay the passives, sorry. Still have 1k HP and 1,5k Stam with 2600 resist and ultigen. Frost immunity didnt matter and -1,4k resist doesnt break anything.
And bringing redguard to the conversation, LOL.
1.4 k def is only to reach easy PVE CAP.
All other builds do not care it, it was 2% mitigation only PVE tanks cares.
So it was not to much to just remove it.
Even with 4k def nords are questinable as good tanks.
But with out it, it is just bad.0 -
Grandchamp1989✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nah you cant downplay the passives, sorry. Still have 1k HP and 1,5k Stam with 2600 resist and ultigen. Frost immunity didnt matter and -1,4k resist doesnt break anything.
And bringing redguard to the conversation, LOL.
I don't think so mate
Redguards are objectively a better option than Nords for Tanking. So are Imperials.
But don't take it just from me - here is the founder of the Tank Club who's a Godslayer and Tic-Toc Tormenter Tank stating what literally everyone else in the thread is. He also got it 5th out of 10 for Tanking with the new patch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71gzo0CEz4E&t=1078s&ab_channel=TheTankClub
https://youtube.com/watch?v=71gzo0CEz4E&t=1078s&ab_channel=TheTankClub
Edited by Grandchamp1989 on March 12, 2021 4:12PM3 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭All good tanks, not even tanksGrandchamp1989 wrote: »Nah you cant downplay the passives, sorry. Still have 1k HP and 1,5k Stam with 2600 resist and ultigen. Frost immunity didnt matter and -1,4k resist doesnt break anything.
And bringing redguard to the conversation, LOL.
Thank you for bringing absolutely nothing to the conversation.
Redguards are objectively a better option than Nords for Tanking. So are Imperials.
But don't take it just from me - here is the founder of the Tank Club who's a Godslayer and Tic-Toc Tormenter Tank stating what literally everyone else in the thread is. He also got it 5th out of 10 for Tanking with the new patch.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71gzo0CEz4E&t=1078s&ab_channel=TheTankClub
https://youtube.com/watch?v=71gzo0CEz4E&t=1078s&ab_channel=TheTankClub
Each not only good tank, just good player say the same.
I may be deesagree about top 1-2-3 places, but nord is just bad.
And it is just bad not only as a Tank, but as DD and as healer.
So people just will not take it as good option for PVE.
Only cosplay option.
It is bad ! Really bad for MMO.
It is so hardly disbalanced now and week, that i already tell it on PTS !!!
It can be easy seen just by 1 look.
Some races need check to understand what is better. Like top places.
It is just bad even with no tests !
And on tests it is bad too ... .
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Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭
I may be deesagree about top 1-2-3 places, but nord is just bad.
And it is just bad not only as a Tank, but as DD and as healer.
So people just will not take it as good option for PVE.
2% less mitigation makes it suddenly not good for tanking anymore? That is just not true.
For non end game content it doesn't really matter, what race you run on a tank anyway.
In theory, for absolute end game content it only matters, how fast you can apply your war horn and that is still best on a nord.
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pelle412✭✭✭✭✭Nords are fine. In fact you can tank well on any race. It's the least important part of tanking.4 -
Zinggling✭✭Grandchamp1989 wrote: »
FFS that looks really terrible for 4-man content without a healer.
For 4 man content at least with this patch:
I think Tanks are no longer meant to provide Tanking + Buffing (+ Healing) at the same time, like 2 roles in 1 is not for this patch. Same for DDs and Healers.
I have equipped my tank with +Armor sets and I am at 33k+ resistance with 60k health, I don t (can't) provide Buffs but honestly I just cannot die with this patch. My tank is literally unkillable in vet DLC dungeons. I don't have to move out of nasty AOEs most of the time nor do I have to block most Heavy Attacks, it just tickles.
For ex. If I do NOT block an Heavy Attack from the Minotaurs in Falkreacth, I loose only 1/2 HP. Was not like that before.
CP 1400 here though.0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭If i can tank Zamaja from vCR on DD, it do not make this DD tank.
The same works if some race can only be good tank before and now it is bad in all game aspects.
If you are not good in tanking - you are good DD or heal.
Or you are middle in ALL like kajiit.
But if some race is bottom or middle in all aspects, its really bad !
Bottom DD and middle tank, not even in first 3 !
Just look video before
Why do you tell me that "tank is possible on anything".
I can solo do vDLC dunguans, ofcouse i can tank on anything.
But on some race it feels good and some race are like real pain.
And tank is only tank race option.
It is really bad balance.
"You can tank on anything"
Yes I can ! Give me the race for this than, and call it "ME". Or "Any race" to tank on.
But current nord state is underperforming !
It is not about even less stats.
It is just how it is, bad game race balance.
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