Is crit dead in pvp now? Mala a must?

Sleevez340 · March 2021

As the title states, with crit being hard to compare to mala in actual damage as it is. Is the reduced amount of gainable crit reduced pvp to malacaths band being manditory?

MurderMostFoul · March 2021

I still think you're better off with a different Mythic in medium or light. But in heavy, mala can't be beat.

techyeshic · March 2021

Still.seems a waste on NB that can garauntee a crit or maybe stamsorc who gets heals off a crit but it already is better to go malacath damage wise already. The loss is in what else you give up like wild hunt speed, a monster set, a 5 piece, or weapon set.

Sangwyne · March 2021

Sleevez340 wrote: »

As the title states, with crit being hard to compare to mala in actual damage as it is. Is the reduced amount of gainable crit reduced pvp to malacaths band being manditory?

I don't think it's a hard comparison to make at all, at least not any more. Characters used to be able to reach somewhat reasonable levels of critical chance, if not damage. ZOS has since implemented many new sources of critical damage and buffed existing sources (Except for Shadow), while reducing critical chance nearly across the board. I would say 40% crit chance is still quite feasible with a reasonable build not tailored entirely around it, with 150% base crit damage and an additional 10% from Minor Force accessible without too much trouble. The issue is, 40% chance to crit for 160% damage is only a 24% damage boost (0.6x1.0+0.4x1.6=1.24). Compounded with this, base critical resistance in PvP is 20%, meaning that even with an additional 20% critical damage on top of Minor Force and the previous stats, you'd still be doing less than if you had simply equipped Malacath (1.24x vs 1.25x, without accounting for monster sets). I firmly believe that a reduction to Malacath's universal damage boost from 25% to 20% (the same as Major Berserk and Major Slayer combined) would render it a much more interesting and interactive choice compared to a critical damage build, while hopefully nullifying some players' complaints about "tanks" in PvP doing absurd damage with absurd healing, complaints which have unfortunately led to actual tanks in PvE getting shafted. Seriously, the issue at the heart of this all is that Malacath has warped damage numbers for builds in PvP that normally wouldn't have the stats to be doing any, and then Heavy armor becoming the go-to scapegoat whenever someone dies in PvP. Got ganked by a nightblade? Must have been wearing Heavy armor. Died to a zerg while alone deep in enemy territory? Would have been able to kill them all if they weren't wearing Heavy armor. Lose a duel? Heavy armor. Until the conversation shifts from blaming Heavy users to realizing it's Malacath, I would continue to use it. And to be entirely honest, I don't see that happening any time soon; the meta next patch will likely just shift from Stam Wardens in Heavy armor Proc sets abusing Malacath to Stam Wardens in Medium armor Proc sets abusing Malacath, and people's outrage will shift to whatever the new thing is, until it gets nerfed and they need to find something else to blame. Repeat ad nauseam.

Urzigurumash · March 2021

Buff Malacath to 250%, but only for Orcs, and I don't mean pitiful Trinimac devotees

Urzigurumash · March 2021

Anyhow all sound replies here. It really depends on your class and choice of weapons in my opinion. If you're a StamPlar as your signature indicates I'd use the new Axes and Advancing Yokeda or Mech Acuity or something before I put on Malacath. That flat 10% extra crit damage seems like it takes up a lot of StamPlar's power budget, so I'd use it.

SHOW · March 2021

Sangwyne wrote: »

Sleevez340 wrote: »

As the title states, with crit being hard to compare to mala in actual damage as it is. Is the reduced amount of gainable crit reduced pvp to malacaths band being manditory?

I don't think it's a hard comparison to make at all, at least not any more. Characters used to be able to reach somewhat reasonable levels of critical chance, if not damage. ZOS has since implemented many new sources of critical damage and buffed existing sources (Except for Shadow), while reducing critical chance nearly across the board. I would say 40% crit chance is still quite feasible with a reasonable build not tailored entirely around it, with 150% base crit damage and an additional 10% from Minor Force accessible without too much trouble. The issue is, 40% chance to crit for 160% damage is only a 24% damage boost (0.6x1.0+0.4x1.6=1.24). Compounded with this, base critical resistance in PvP is 20%, meaning that even with an additional 20% critical damage on top of Minor Force and the previous stats, you'd still be doing less than if you had simply equipped Malacath (1.24x vs 1.25x, without accounting for monster sets). I firmly believe that a reduction to Malacath's universal damage boost from 25% to 20% (the same as Major Berserk and Major Slayer combined) would render it a much more interesting and interactive choice compared to a critical damage build, while hopefully nullifying some players' complaints about "tanks" in PvP doing absurd damage with absurd healing, complaints which have unfortunately led to actual tanks in PvE getting shafted. Seriously, the issue at the heart of this all is that Malacath has warped damage numbers for builds in PvP that normally wouldn't have the stats to be doing any, and then Heavy armor becoming the go-to scapegoat whenever someone dies in PvP. Got ganked by a nightblade? Must have been wearing Heavy armor. Died to a zerg while alone deep in enemy territory? Would have been able to kill them all if they weren't wearing Heavy armor. Lose a duel? Heavy armor. Until the conversation shifts from blaming Heavy users to realizing it's Malacath, I would continue to use it. And to be entirely honest, I don't see that happening any time soon; the meta next patch will likely just shift from Stam Wardens in Heavy armor Proc sets abusing Malacath to Stam Wardens in Medium armor Proc sets abusing Malacath, and people's outrage will shift to whatever the new thing is, until it gets nerfed and they need to find something else to blame. Repeat ad nauseam.

Yep. Read what this guy said. ^

Malacath has broken PvP.

I even run it on a 7 light mag sorc, its so stupid.

Please balance.

SshadowSscale · March 2021

Probably pvps fault that critical got nerfed..... or at least that's what the pve side would have you believe lol

Firstmep · March 2021

I think apart from sorc and nightblade, there's going to be very little reason to not run mala.
Medium and light armor passives now give 1% per piece, which is very little IMHO and even gear bonuses are kinda weak in terms of crit now.
And with how well wpd/spd is going to scale next patch, investing into extra crit chance over those just feels like a waste.

relentless_turnip · March 2021

Crit damage in cp is actually higher next patch while chance is lower.

Malacath is still a heavy enabler, you could definetly have an impact stacking crit damage.
Reason being is the resistant cp passive(if you choose to slot it) will only give you 600 or so crit resist. This means with base crit resist and this slottable you can achieve 2500ish crit resist. Where as on live you are near 3000 without having to make a choice. Most players I imagine will be sitting between 1500-2000. This I think means crits in cp will be hitting about 20% harder, though no cp PvP will remain the same.

relentless_turnip · March 2021

SshadowSscale wrote: »

Probably pvps fault that critical got nerfed..... or at least that's what the pve side would have you believe lol

😂
Yeah it is definetly a pve change. They didn't like how important crit was to DPS. They probably want more build diversity in trials etc... Which isn't a bad thing.

thedoodle_90 · March 2021

You also can’t compare malacath damage to nothing. You said 1.24 vs 1.25 but that 1.24 also can have a set bonus as well thanks to not using a mythic. They also nerfed a lot of the proc damage from monster sets by about 10-15%

Sahidom · March 2021

Here's a rough analogy between the two, (Malacath) 1,000 damage hit turns into a 1250 hit for 100% of the time. Using a ~45% Critical Chance number for the same damage hits for 1,500 damage; both deal the same damage i.e. 12,500 (Malacath) versus 12,250 (CC/CD) over roughly 10 landing attacks. That's relying on the certainty that you'll get 4.5 critical hits out of the 10, and why the RNG issue makes Malacath stronger than critical chance or critical damage.

Add in the fact that Critical chance has been nerfed, so players will be required to take more effort in gearing, skill picks and maintaining active buffs to compete with Malacath Band. The disparity is the real problem where one item slot mythic substitutes for 5-6 item slotting to deal comparable damage; proc damage is just icing on the cake for Malacath Band users.

katorga · March 2021

thedoodle_90 wrote: »

You also can’t compare malacath damage to nothing. You said 1.24 vs 1.25 but that 1.24 also can have a set bonus as well thanks to not using a mythic. They also nerfed a lot of the proc damage from monster sets by about 10-15%

It has to be one heck of a set bonus to equal 25% damage increase.

As posted earlier, crit rate is going down. And possibly average critical resistance is going down. So we will see if it is cost effective to build for crit in Flames of Ambition or the field tilts even further toward Malacath as the most cost effective solution.

kapachia · March 2021

Simply do not apply Malacath buff to proc set.

Let Malacath buff apply to simple weapon and spell damage. This should help alleviate current cancer in PvP where a single light attack can trigger potential 3 proc damages. This allowed people to stack health/heavy armor/recovery since they get free damages from proc sets with minimal base damage output.

honey_badger82 · March 2021

kapachia wrote: »

Simply do not apply Malacath buff to proc set.

Let Malacath buff apply to simple weapon and spell damage. This should help alleviate current cancer in PvP where a single light attack can trigger potential 3 proc damages. This allowed people to stack health/heavy armor/recovery since they get free damages from proc sets with minimal base damage output.

This has been my solution for the whole time instead of those screaming to add a 3-4% maim per piece of heavy armor worn. Keep it from buffing proc set damage and have it kill crit healing as well.