tmbrinks wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

AyaDark wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Nice, two threads about removing meta. @Aiphaton already summed things up really well but let me just add.

META: Most effective Tactics Available. The mathematically perfect character build for a specific situation. META changes from instance to instance, from trash mobs to boss fight. As a way to simplify that so we don't have to swap everything around the community has a whole focuses on one thing, average single target boss DPS. We don't care about what instance it its and we don't in most cases care if there are more than one boss. Single target is the easiest standard to follow. Is that right? Probably not. Is it easier to measure? Sure is. Do we always know what the TRUE META is? Probably not.

We might not always know the TRUE META and the META always changes, however, just because you do not use it and you refuse to play with people that do, does not "remove the META" or "kill the META". It doesn't care what you think, its an abstract concept not an individual with thoughts and feelings, it just exists. You can play OFF-META all you like and think those that play it is Toxic, but by claiming all people who play using META builds are bad players or toxic players, you are not exactly showing people that OFF-META players are any different at all. If you want to play OFF-META, then do so and move along, if someone wants to play META, then let them and move along. You cannot kill the meta and if what you want to do is change the culture around the META, then my friend you are going around this the wrong way. You can't change an internet culture by simply claiming it to be toxic and bad, even most people that play OFF-META builds to enjoy the game their way won't side with you when your stance is this aggressive.

In short. Can't kill what is not alive, and the internet does not like being talked down too.

META: Most effective Tactics Available. The mathematically perfect character build for a specific situation.

Most effective tacticks aviable only works if you know a lot of different tactics and chouse one.

Not if you only know one and calculate for it in the first place.

If people will not test different tactics they will newer learn to play. Becouse they will not know a lot of different methods.

The mathematical perfect is on paper. In reality it only works if exist players who can use it.

All you need to do to kill META is a little change conditions. So to make it work you need to try for a lot of times.

And the only reason becouse it exist is its promotion.

A lot of people try it for a million times.

If just show people that they can get all theyneed in more simple way - what will happen ?

They will get it and will not play META. So ... with not enough number of people to support this idea it will just fall.

You can have perfect on papersolution - but if people not interested, theyget all they want - why will they do it ?

Thats why META people are so agressive to others. If they lose there promotion and lose peoples mind - they stop exist.

It is just simple.

Some one try 5 years and have good results. But i close from second run, and do not even care. May be some one try to close it 4 years by the same way.

What do people need ? Do they need score run ? Or just 3 in 1 or skin ?

All 3 of this can be achived faster in different ways. From new players.

He do not need try hard 4 years to close on score with you.

He need skin,he do not need score run.

He can easely get it in different gear.

For a few month of play.

What will happen to META raids ?

No one want to do what you want from them. They can easely close with not META group with a lot of fun.

What is the point to work on some toxic players ambitions ?

Want to close vSS ? It is easy to make on 500+ CPgroup. But with no META builds.

Full 810 CP group will close it faster in time. But they played a lot of hours for it.

It is not effective. You play to long for something that can be get more easy way.

For score runs - ok may be META sets will be better, but to much score runners ?

"First of all become a good player, than learn how to do better DPS - just my opinion."

You did not understand a single word I wrote did you? Did I say you needed the META to play the game? To get achievements or get skins? I said that the existence of the META as a concept will always be there since you cannot kill a concept. As well, the fact that you think that OFF-META builds will make it easier to get certain skins is just not true. It is true that becoming a better player will make your success go up with whatever build you might have, but the key parts to that is this. 1. Situation awareness. 2. Understanding Mechanics. 3. ROTATION. The biggest difference to any players DPS is their rotation. Gear will not change the fact that you are spamming Snipe and only Snipe on vSS HM bosses. What will change that is learning how to rotate through your skills, applying buffs, DoTs, HoTs and support skills. Farming for OFF-META gear vs Farming for META gear will not change things as much as changing your rotation and as you said, becoming a better player. So if becoming a better player is the key, and the key to that is not gear, then why farm for OFF-META gear to begin with? Why claim that people should not do it cause its toxic to do so? Sure there are some OFF-META stuff that is more fun to play with, and knock yourself out, play how you want. Unless you are joining a group of 11 other people that do not what to have to carry you.

There is an expectation when joining Trials, and some dungeons. That you will be able to pull your own weight in there and contribute your part. If you run OFF-META sets that still get you within acceptable DPS range for the content, no one will bat and eye except for those that are indeed toxic elitists. However, if you do not pull acceptable DPS and you are hindering the group with low contribution or failure to adhere to mechanics and raid set ups, then you will be removed. There are groups that will teach, and have patience, but those will often advertise themselves as that before starting so everyone is on the same page on the groups, again, expectations. And even they will probably try and teach you what the META is to improve your performance, or show you videos on weaving and rotation set ups, and if you ignore their advice and refuse to learn, they too will eventually kick you out and not run with you. Know what is expected of you by your fellow players when running team content, its not just your time but everyone else's too.

Again, you can play OFF-META all you want, have fun doing it, but please do not try and claim it to make things easier or better for people to do it, and don't try to claim those that run Trial and expect you to actually pull your weight in team content to be toxic, by doing so you are the one putting out the most toxic of claims.

Why i need to read you, if you do not read me ?

I talk about not concept.
I do not talk about paper.
I do not even talk about score runs.

It can be better on it.

But is is not good for new players to learn.
All progressive groups try to copy paste it.
How do end game 100 players play i even really do not care.

I care about other millions do.

A lot of players think that if some of that 100 players close in it, it will be more easy for them to close the same way, with not enough exp they have.

"This" have to be stopped.

The META you talk about do not even really exist.

Some times skills press that bad, that procs can do more damage.

So we need META for time of the day you play.

It is a joke but not that far from real situation.

There are not only score runners in game.

People have to know that a lot of their goals can be achived in a lot of different more easy ways.

All they get - is META sets they can not even do normal dps in to start with.

And it is like garbage everywhere.

You can not find any other information becouse of it.

You will get 100 meta like links on 1 real link that will help you to pass.

Your META is like spam already.

Nobody cares what gear you wear as long as you can do your role and your job.

If you're in an "end-game, score pushing, trifecta seeking" group, then yes, I would expect you to follow the "META" and do the absolute best for your role in that situation (which is going to change based on player/mechanics, and even support sets).

If you're just trying to clear the content, nobody cares. Certainly not enough to make multiple threads every month about it.

But there is no denying the math of the situation. There will always be some combination of gear/skills that are the absolute best in any situation. The trick is figuring out what that is.

"Nobody cares what gear you wear as long as you can do your role and your job."

Unfortunatly they do. If they do not, it even will not by any problem at all.

And it is hard to say that it is not like:
"There will always be some combination of gear/skills that are the absolute best in any situation. "

But one important thing is that it will be for :
Class, player, not only situation. Based on their current exp.

And what ?

Will it help other million of players ?

If you can fly - you can go to the sea.
Others need air plain for that.

This information do not help them. Do you understand that ? Just think about it the way like i will say:

You walk and see hundreds of players that just jump becouse they think they can fly and say thet they are super man.

It is silly !

But it is current in game situation.

May be if you play years in the same statick group you really do not see it.

Then play with other players. Obviously class matters as well, so obvious that it shouldn't need to be stated.

Determining the "META" is always an important task. It will help players see what can happen in the best of situations, give them a starting point, something to strive for.

Also, this game doesn't have an inspect feature, so how does anybody know what you're running, unless it has a visual effect

I have no clue what your "If you can fly - you can go to the sea" even means. Stay on topic, stop with the analogies. It'll make your point come across better. Because right now, it's a wall of text, filled with random analogies that draw away from any coherent point.

Do you learn MATH with start from integrals ?

No, you start it from A+B ... .

What is good in start point where people can not pass ?

You are new player:
You come in game. Will you do on 160 CP 30 k damage ? In mother sorrow and something else ?

But you do need damage for runs. Some thing more simple.

You need something to easely do damage to farm and learn.

I see learning group for vCR. One of the needed sets to healer to get in it was set from it !

But if you already have it,what kind of learning group is it ?

That how it start already work.

Is it more understandable now on such example not on some "off topic" situation ?

Then run NORMAL Cloudrest to get it

Yes, you can do 30k DPS in MS/Julianos, which are accessible to any player. Julianos is only like 5% below the "META" and won't affect your group's ability to clear content (unless, of course, you are going for score-pushing, trifecta type content)

Then you have the "META" as something for you to strive for.

I GUARANTEE, I could take my raid group, put everybody in a combination of crafted and overland gear (so can be made or bought) and we can clear ANY content in the game (again, not for score-pushing or trifecta, but simply to clear)

The next question is - if you can easely do good DPS much more simple, what is the point to do less DPS in hard way ?

For score runs ok. More DPS.

But ordinary player will not do even same damage in meta like he can do in no meta sets.

Some people can have bad ping, fps and etc.

You can more easely pass in different combination of sets if you are not top DPS group.

What is the point to copy META game style in such condition ?

Because all things being equal. The meta is the best. Then you adapt to your situation.

And if somebody is demanding you use Olorime/Siroria/Relequen for NORMAL cloudrest... I reiterate... nobody cares what gear you're running as long as you can do your job... especially for a normal trial.

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

Alurria wrote: »

hexnotic wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

This comment is unnecessary even I understand the OPs point. He's saying to have a meta but not the skill to use it effectively is not teaching anyone anything. To base it as a requirement for a group doesn't predict the actually outcome of the encounter. Obviously english doesn't seem to be the OPs first language but this comment is just plain mean

The OP does not have a point, only a toxic rant at those who literally worked to become trusted sources of information with in the game community. When the OP stated, his/her builds weren't being tested, that is a dead give away to the toxicity of the mentality of this argument.

Content creators, made channels on social media, published sites on the internet, crunched numbers and tested game mechanics and tools given... all for the community. And they do this for almost every mmo ever... its not easy creating communities. It take hard work to earn trust and followers. And here comes the OP ready to denounce their time and effort as "toxic". This is the worse type of player.

This thread serves no benefit to the community. And us just the bitter rant of an individual who will not put in the time and effort that others did yo become successful community leaders.