How do you kill sorcs?

SirPaws · February 2021

I've been playing pretty much exclusively in Cyrodiil since Midyear Mayhem as and when I can, and taking the current no proc test as an opportunity to learn as much as possible on a more level playing field. I die a lot but try to learn from each death.

What I have learnt is that 9/10 deaths in a 1v1 scenario are from Crystal Frags. Sorcs are turning into my worst nightmare. Are more people turning to sorcs because they're easy or am I just really bad at countering them? I managed to hold my own against one in a really fun 5 min+ duel at Ash LM a few days ago, was disappointed to get t-bagged after that fight. I would have bowed had I been the victor, but I digress. I'm finding that no matter what I do, a sorc's ability to streak and stun me buys them time to recover.

I'm playing a stamcro I made back when Elsweyr launched. Although the gear I was wearing was a bit dated (x5 Bone Pirate, x5 New Moon and x2 Bloodspawn) I still had fun during Mayhem. With the current no proc test, I slapped on x5 Shackle heavy, x5 Spriggans and I forget the other 2 pieces). The character is far from complete as I don't have the Undaunted passives or Psijic skills unlocked on the toon. I use 2H and S&B.

I've been playing around with different skills trying to find a setup that is versatile, but I'm really struggling to find anything that can counter a sorc. I feel like I need to keep up constant pressure and rely on a gap closer followed by a cc skill (like Totem) but so far Shielded Assault isn't cutting it because they either streak through me or streak as soon as they break free and are well outside the radius of any cc I cast.

Can anyone give me any pointers? I feel like I stand a chance in a 1v1 against most other classes: I'm tanky enough with good enough sustain to deal with DKs and Wardens unless I'm totally outplayed (which to be fair is often) can sometimes deal with NBs if I can keep them out of stealth long enough with Camo Hunter (this skill is needs to last longer) but Sorcs are becoming the bane of my pvp life. What do I need to do to beat sorcerers?

Freakin_Hytte · February 2021

Just keep at em with gap closer if you use one. Let them waste their magicka on useless streaks. Watch out for their burst, whenever their dot is about to hurt you or they hit you up with their execute before your are below the 25%, that's when you know they will unload use their burst. Crystal frags is insta cast since no sorc use it without the procc.

But the main thing is to just be up their ass if they are streaking a lot and pound on them. Try to save stuns when their shield is down and try to time your blastbones with dawnbreaker.

A slower class will always struggle against the more mobile ones in cyrodiil just because they never run out of space.

FirmamentOfStars · February 2021

Generally in a 1v1 situation against a sorc, you probably will not kill the sorc, if he really does not want to die. Most of the play very safe and streak right through you when you attempt a combo or something. If they are super cautious, they streak a second time to get out of reach anyway.

So what can you do facing magsorcs:
Defensively keep up all your buffs all the times including vigor. Mostly magsorcs combo with curse, and then time a c-frag and streak together with the curse explosion. As necro you could purge the curse or you press vigor proactively when you know their combo is coming. Break free fast and block or roll. When cc immune try to evade c-frag damage by same mechanics.

Offensively try to counter their combo of curse and streak and start your combo right after to get it through while cc immune. Blastbones into dizzy and the dawnbreaker is your best bet to get through hus shields. If you can keep up with his healthbar, try to time your combo when his shields wear off.

Otherwise...if the sorc plays very safely with lots of streak and stuff...just walk away....well its dumb, but as said: a magsorc, that doesnt want to die, wont die easely.

katorga · February 2021

Or just block.

That is why they streak through you, to CC and force you to drop block. If you are CC immune, their burst is can be blocked and their execute dodged. I think you can purge Curse, but I never notice if curse is on me enough to reliably purge.

If break free worked reliably and skills always fired when you hit the key, a lot of these concerns would go away.
.

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2021

I don't think you can do it 1v1. Maybe if you are sorc too (mobility), but a properly built sorc that is a decent player on top.. idk about that... can be problematic...

Vevvev · February 2021

Gap closers and speed are your friends. Without them you won't have the mobility to keep up and the sorc will continue to kite you and rain down death from above. Stun them constantly, use gap closers to stay on them, and try to slot some CP into the shield breaker star. Sorcs love their shield stacks and getting bonus damage against that is really nice.

jaws343 · February 2021

If you are using Shielded Assault as a gap closer, if I were on my sorc, you would be doing very little damage to me. Sword and Board is not a great weapon set up to tackle a sorc.

You want two hand with Dizzy. Dizzy hits hard. And on a Stamcro, Dizzy, Blastbones, Dawnbreaker combo is usually enough to drop a sorc when timed right. You also want to keep CC on them as much as possible. Stam is in short supply, and is a part of the primary stat regen as well. So if you run a sorc out of Stam, you are pretty much going to kill them.

On top of that, outside of Curse and lightning heavy attacks, everything a Sorc can throw at you can be dodged if you are not stunned. Everything. If you figure out the timing of their burst, you can predict when best to roll dodge.

I often blow up an opponent during the first combo when they don't have much time to react, but that relies on a reliable frag proc to do so. If the first combo fails, the rest of the fight is just waiting for them to make a mistake, forget a heal, or something. Otherwise it is a waiting game of how long until I run out of stamina.

Joy_Division · February 2021

jaws343 wrote: »

You want two hand with Dizzy. Dizzy hits hard. And on a Stamcro, Dizzy, Blastbones, Dawnbreaker combo is usually enough to drop a sorc when timed right.

That' about it.

The other thing I'd add is that's going to take some skill to execute because if a sorcerer doesn't want to die, it's very easy for them to play cautiously and continually reset fights.

Waffennacht · February 2021

Put your back to the duel area limit; that'll force them to only streak away from you and not thru you (or they forfeit)

Realistically, its unlikely you'll win against sorcs or NBs that are willing to use streak/cloak in a duel, because they can just spend the whole time evading you until you give up

orion_1981usub17_ESO · February 2021

When facing a sorc, immediately move against walls, objects or into enclosed spaces that will defeat their mobility. If they can streak, they can wait you out and wear you away, so you have to take away their main advantage. Do not engage sorcs in open fields! Do not engage sorcs in open hallways! Hump corners, trees, rocks, boxes, ect. If they are a smart sorc, they won't put themselves at risk once they realize a person understands their class. If their foolhardy, wait tell they get close pop a cc immunity and punish them for their impudence. Let me say it again, do not engage sorcs in open field, do not chase a sorc with out a group of hounds to flush them out. It's simply not worth the trouble.

SirPaws · February 2021

I'm not sure which answer best addresses the question as you each brought solid input to the table, so thank you for all your replies! I'll work on levelling up Critical Charge to replace Shielded Assault and see about swapping one or two of my jewellery traits to Swift for some extra mobility. Hopefully, those changes along with a bit more spacial awareness versus sorcs will start evening the odds a bit as I'll be able to make that gap closer count for more and be able to move a little less like a ten-tonne turtle.

I'll look into my CP and see what I have put into Shattering Blows for damage vs shields. Now it has been mentioned, knowing me I probably only put leftover points into that star. See how it goes.

Thanks again everyone for the advice and information!

WabanakiWarrior · February 2021

Good replies here! My best advice is to roll a sorc and experience it yourself. You'll see the downsides and the best ways people counter you. I think you'll find that some players will walk circles around you simply bc they know the sorc playstyle inside and out.

orion_1981usub17_ESO · February 2021

There is nothing sadder than watching alliance nubs chase a sorc only to eventually realize they over extended and then watch the sorc pick them off one by one as they panic and flee back to safety. It literally makes me angry at the class design but I can't fault people playing yo it's strengths. You have to bait sorcs, any smart sorc will know when to cut and run. Its like fighting the road runner as the coyote. So use bombs and seize.

jaws343 · February 2021

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

There is nothing sadder than watching alliance nubs chase a sorc only to eventually realize they over extended and then watch the sorc pick them off one by one as they panic and flee back to safety. It literally makes me angry at the class design but I can't fault people playing yo it's strengths. You have to bait sorcs, any smart sorc will know when to cut and run. Its like fighting the road runner as the coyote. So use bombs and seize.

I was playing on my sorc during MYM and caught a sorc in front of Chalman who for some reason decided to run towards my (EP) alliance home keeps rather than his own. Had nothing better to do so I chased them for a while, nearly all the way to Arrius. They weren't expecting me to be able to keep up, but Sorc v Sorc kind of killed their mobility. And they were not capable of standing their ground and fighting when I caught them.

UntouchableHunter · February 2021

Just ask to them don't move and keep the Shields down.

SirPaws · February 2021

WabanakiWarrior wrote: »

Good replies here! My best advice is to roll a sorc and experience it yourself. You'll see the downsides and the best ways people counter you. I think you'll find that some players will walk circles around you simply bc they know the sorc playstyle inside and out.

That's quite astute. Part of the problem could be that I have never gotten a sorc past level 25. I rolled one back when class identity was a focus and started learning their skills but stalled on that playthrough when I couldn't decide between mag or stam. It could also be because I've always slightly resented them and was unable to form a strong attachment to the character. I mean, years of ugly pink flappy birds in my face at every bank, wayshrine and crafting station have not endeared the class to me, nor has the fact they consistently make the top spot for best solo class and most beginner-friendly class. You know, if you want an easy class to master and get a high damage output, try Xynode's Easy Sorc! So to find out they are also the best solo pvp class kinda irks me I guess.

I really ought to get over it and learn to enjoy the class, but my motivation to do that can't depend on my desire to beat them, if that makes sense. Levelling up a character is a fairly long road and commitment which I would like to come from a place of excitement rather than resentment. That leaves me in a bit of a catch-22 in that I won't be able to get to know a sorc's strengths and weaknesses until I play one for myself, yet I have no great desire to do so right now beyond my pvp interests. However, your words hold wisdom so I will work on getting over myself and mental block, see about dusting off and playing my sorcerer again.

Edit: I forgot to mention that Sorcs can also cheese the final round of Vateshran Hollows by streaking through the ring of death. It's like, what can't these guys do? We should all join them and change the name of the the game to Elder Sorcs Online. Meanwhile, my main character, a Khajiit stamDK, is still waiting for a decent class spammable. "Class balance" makes me lol.

Alchimiste1 · February 2021

if they are the type to streak every time you get near them you wont kill it. they will out range your bb and it will stand there looking dumb.

actosh · February 2021

Blades can tp out via shade as well from the circle in vateshran. I get why it frustrates you but that's how a blink works. Maybe zos will do something about it, which I doubt.

NinchiTV · February 2021

As a stamcro slot expunge to counter curse. Block or dodge roll frag. Your using 2H so im going to assume you also use dizzy. Pop immovable, use blastbones, dizzy once, dawny, dizzy again execute. Also magsorc greatest weakness is his stam pool. If you can run them low on stam and you CC them and use your combo, you will win.

Ocelot9x · February 2021

Sadly you have one of the worst class to deal with magsorc. If you're using 2h it means you have only 2 skills to drop their shields end even if blastbone+dizzying hits for 5-6k each that won't be enought to drop them, so they'll just streak and cast shields and reset the fight.

Best way to deal with magsorc is having few dots running on them while you're on defensive and try to burst them once their life drop to 80% but it only works with bad sorc.

If you want to have a chance of winning as a magcro try putting reanimated blastbones as your ulti on backbar. For your combo you should cast 1 bb, go backbar and refresh spirit mender+bone armor so you have three corpses. Cast ulti, swap and cast another blastbone. You now have 4bb chasing them and if you manage to stun the sorc you should have won.
It's really a clunky combo but that's the only way of beating a sorc of your skill level as a stamina necromancer

Thraben · February 2021

SirPaws wrote: »

I've been playing pretty much exclusively in Cyrodiil since Midyear Mayhem as and when I can, and taking the current no proc test as an opportunity to learn as much as possible on a more level playing field. I die a lot but try to learn from each death.

What I have learnt is that 9/10 deaths in a 1v1 scenario are from Crystal Frags. Sorcs are turning into my worst nightmare. Are more people turning to sorcs because they're easy or am I just really bad at countering them?

You have 2 counters to Frags: Either use a Frost Staff backbar with Wall of Elements, or use Defensive Stance every 6 seconds. This counters both Frags and Light Overload attacks (and some other popular Magsorc skills as well)

As @NinchiTV has said, Expunge gets rid of both Haunting Curse and Mage's Fury.

Now you have brought down the MagSorc to almost 0 damage.

With a Blastbones, Dawnbreaker, Dizzy Combo you should well be able to able to do enough damage - for you don't need that much, as Executioner is a great skill.

Of course, you should keep some self-healing up all the time, but after roughly 20 seconds the MagSorc will give up and streak away.

You can't do much against a fleeing MagSorc, so if you want to have a chance before he gets away, you could burst him using Harmony as a jewelry trait, and add a Grave Robber synergy to your burst combo.

Fawn4287 · February 2021

Sorc is the king of stomping clueless zerglings but essentially useless against a fairly tanky stam toon 1v1, stam toons are mostly about burst damage and double wards nearly doubling their effective health pool combined with streak give them the ultimate burst mitigating tools, instant over heals and a hard CC that instantly removes them from melee range. the only time I’ve found them easy to deal with was using masters bleeds and balorgh, when you ult the DOT of both the rending and dawny will eat roughly one ward per second (on a stamcro with 4k+ weapon damage) giving you the opportunity to actually do some damage to their health bar, most not potato magsorcs will then streak spam if you don’t manage to execute them at that moment. Magsorcs are pretty much fodder to a heavy dot centric builds, a magplar or a magdk with plenty of DOTs chew out magsorcs.

LightYagami · March 2021

If magsorcs spam streak and leave far away, you basically can't catch them 1 v 1 in open world unless you're a streak magsorc yourself.

I met level 4 vampire streak magsorc in cyodiil and they have the highest mobility... You won't catch them if they don't want to fight.

The most effective way to fight them may be stunning and bursting them down asap before they streak away. Use a gap closer to catch them but it may only work once, then they'll usually spam streak to leave at all cost when the c.c. immunity is still effective.

edit: typo