New Tank learning boss mechanics

Araneae6537 · February 2021

What are the best ways to learn various boss mechanics outside of researching them online? I would really rather do so in game, with an add-on if needed, but just looking up and memorizing stuff as for a test does not appeal to me. At all.

Now I know quite a few dungeon mechanics from playing them as healer, but I don’t always know what the tank is or should be doing with specific bosses. How do I know whether I had best interrupt, block or avoid? What about enemies that attack regardless of taunts either a random player, furthest player, etc.? When tanking, I always panic a bit when a boss attacks anyone besides me, but so long as I’ve kept a constant taunt on them, must I assume it is a mechanic I cannot mitigate? And what about multiple bosses? Is there always an in-game notification of when they should be kept apart, as in March of Sacrifices?

Fennwitty · February 2021

Most dungeons aren't clear about what's going on.

A few try to be clear, like Scalecaller Peak, but the NPC instructions aren't straightforward.

Either you read online, you get the addon Xynode made (which lets you read in the dungeon in-game) or ask group members.

Or trial and error.

BUT there are many addons that give you a 'heads-up' *something* is coming. They'll warn when a boss is charging a big attack or enters a certain phase. But they don't tend to tell you what or why, just 'oh he's doing that thing watch out!'

Araneae6537 · February 2021

Fennwitty wrote: »

Most dungeons aren't clear about what's going on.

A few try to be clear, like Scalecaller Peak, but the NPC instructions aren't straightforward.

Either you read online, you get the addon Xynode made (which lets you read in the dungeon in-game) or ask group members.

Or trial and error.

BUT there are many addons that give you a 'heads-up' *something* is coming. They'll warn when a boss is charging a big attack or enters a certain phase. But they don't tend to tell you what or why, just 'oh he's doing that thing watch out!'

That’s frustrating!

I don’t have difficulty with seeing an attack is coming between the areas of red and long wind-ups, but what reaction? I guess as long as I learn and remember the things that can insta-kill that might be sufficient...

What I fear most is doing or neglecting to do something which impacts the rest of the group.

Maybe I will resort to looking things up then as the lesser evil... Ideally, I would like to play a role well, reacting to cues from both enemies and teammates, rather than memorizing lots of choreography.

etchedpixels · February 2021

Araneae6537 wrote: »

That’s frustrating! : I don’t have difficulty with seeing an attack is coming between the areas of red and long wind-ups, but what reaction? I guess as long as I learn and remember the things that can insta-kill that might be sufficient...

Until you get to veteran or DLC content there is very little insta-kill for a tank in the game.

If you have trouble seeing the red areas turn them bright pink in your settings - it helps a lot for many people.

UntilValhalla13 · February 2021

Being a tank in this game is basically memorizing boss attacks/recognizing animations, unless you have the fancy add-ons to hold your hand, or something. If you're truly dead set against outside research, it'll just be a trial and error thing of you going in blind and possibly wiping the group over and over. Occasionally some npc will shout out what you're supposed to do, but you're largely on your own. Most base game dungeons are a joke to tank. It's more the dlc dungeons you have to watch out for. Moon hunter keep is always a good tank test for beginners.

zvavi · February 2021

Go in with an experienced tank (that plays a dd) in group, and let him help you with the ropes.

Agenericname · February 2021

When we first started running vet DLC dungeons we did most blind, as in without any outside research. As long as you are with a group that is willing to learn then it's doable, and can be fun.

You can also run with people who know, as stated above.

If you're going to do it without looking the mechanics up then you'll need to learn to listen to what the game is telling you. In SCP Jorvuld tells you to keep the ogres apart, but the circles are also telling you that their position matters. In that case it's apart. Combined with the death recap you should figure it out pretty quick. In vDSA the centurions should overlap so there is a bit of trial and error.

The one we found problematic was the shalks in Fang Lair, if they touch the tank. It will tell you what killed you but not necessarily why.

As long as you recognize what went wrong you can learn from it and adapt and improve. I would suggest that method with friends. I have usually had good experiences with PUGs in vet DLCs, but the level of communication is typically lower and thats part of the learning experience.

VaranisArano · February 2021

You asked about bosses attacking other players.. Be aware that ZOS designed most bosses to have a specific attack that does not target the tank, even if you have constant aggro through your taunt. Some bosses jump on the farthest group member. They like to keep the DDs and healer on their toes.

One of the best ways to deal with this is to keep the boss facing away from your group members. That way, when your group sees the boss turn around and face them, it's a big visual cue that they are about to be attacked.

Some bosses like red-phase Centurion, Drodda, and the Engine Guardian are just untauntable. That's good to know for when your groupmate yells at you to taunt the red Centurion who's hammering them. I'm always like "Untauntable, I would if I could!"

Fennwitty · February 2021

How do I know whether I had best interrupt, block or avoid?

Rules of Thumb:

Always interrupt. Very few dungeons or trials punish you for interrupting.

Always block big windups unless you're low on HP (then roll dodge instead). Some mechanics do require dodge rolling because they do so much damn damage ... but you'll figure those out once they happen.

Always move out of the red when it's safe to do so. If you can get out of an AOE without spinning the boss around, or causing it to move away from your group's AOEs, go ahead and do it. Saves yourself HP and your group resources.

Edit: When in doubt, hold block and ready a self-heal.

El_Borracho · February 2021

zvavi wrote: »

Go in with an experienced tank (that plays a dd) in group, and let him help you with the ropes.

This ^^^

Or run the dungeons as a DPS to see where the DPS should stand, mechanics the DPS face, and the best way to mitigate damage. Also, watch where the tank stands, moves, and interrupts. Playing the game is the best way to learn, and learning as a DPS is more forgiving than learning as a tank.

GreenHere · February 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

You asked about bosses attacking other players.. Be aware that ZOS designed most bosses to have a specific attack that does not target the tank, even if you have constant aggro through your taunt. Some bosses jump on the farthest group member.

To add to this a bit: Most (all?) of those "boss jumps on the player furthest away" mechanics ONLY happen when a group member is too far away. If everyone stays within ~medium range (12ish meters?), they simply never do that mechanic. There may well be bosses (especially DLC ones) that I'm forgetting who are exceptions, but that's the "rule".

The big Kwama homie in Darkshade 1 comes to mind; it's my go-to for running newbies through such mechanics. Take people you're helping learn the ropes (or yourself) to that boss, and when they ask "how far is too far?" just have them back up little by little and when they get pounced you just say "that far!" :P

And as others have said, there's just no better way than teaming up with an experienced tank and having them talk you through mechanics as you go. If you can find such an awesome friend, this is the way.

Perhaps counterintuitively, it's best to do these tank-needs-to-learn runs with lower dps; gives you more time to see and experience the mechanics which can often be missed or outright skipped in uber-ultra-mega-damage groups. A lot of times in regular dungeon runs, the group is blazing through things so fast that we win and I technically succeeded as a tank, but am not always sure how.

I've also found that going in with super selfish "I'll basically never be in any real danger" type builds helps a lot for learning runs. If you're not having to worry much about staying alive and keeping all the plates spinning, it just frees up a lot of mental bandwidth for really "getting" what's going on during hectic fights. If you can focus more on what's going on and absorbing it all the first time around, it really cuts down on needing to repeat things to learn them inside and out.