New CP will immediately force the disbanding of all progression groups

Dracane · February 2021

Only talking for myself; but I am sick and tired of the game being balanced around the fracture of a percentage that is progression groups.

katorga · February 2021

Leading up to the "no players test" to see if that fixes performance, lol.

Seriously, the meta builds for pve are locked behind Trials content. For players who have already done this or already have enough CP to continue to do trials. No issue. But new players will be heavily gated by this.

My main concern is that new players will see the huge hill they have to climb, and just drop the game. Without a steady slow of new players, you start the spiral to server shutdown.

Firstmep · February 2021

VoidCommander wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I don't know how well you are looking or testing but I am still seeing a lot of 90k+ parses and the testing has only been available for a week so with more time fine tuning things I don't see a 30% drop in damage...

It is a little hard to tell for the vast majority of testers because ZOS absolutely refuses to give us a max CP level character on the PTS to actually test the CP system. I can't tell you how MY damage has been effected because I'm stuck at 810 CP on the PTS, while to reach maximum dps specs require 1400 (almost double). I can say however, that with 810 CP my overall damage has suffered about 20-30%. Whether the additional 590 CP will change this is unknown to me, but I have my doubts that it will make that much of a difference. In any case, there will be a drop in dps.

It is only a question of how much of a drop.

No they don't absolutely refuse and if you take 2 seconds to check the dev tracker they outright said that they will try to implement 1800 cp templates.
Also the new XP curve is very generous, the majority of dps drop comes from the removal of a lot of power from cp altogether, which you won't get back AND the massive crit nerfs across the board.

FantasticFreddie · February 2021

People saying that "people want to be end game without working for it!!" are missing the point.
We DID work for it.
We don't want to be set back weeks or months by the CP changes.

Massacre_Wurm · February 2021

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

People saying that "people want to be end game without working for it!!" are missing the point.
We DID work for it.
We don't want to be set back weeks or months by the CP changes.

"Set back" ? How ? If you vet trial ready now - you will be vet trial ready after patch.
Maybe not "maxed out" but thats a different story.

FantasticFreddie · February 2021

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

People saying that "people want to be end game without working for it!!" are missing the point.
We DID work for it.
We don't want to be set back weeks or months by the CP changes.

"Set back" ? How ? If you vet trial ready now - you will be vet trial ready after patch.
Maybe not "maxed out" but thats a different story.

If the damage in the group is too low, if the mitigation takes a hit, etc, it could very well be we won't be able to clear the same content as we are currently. This will hit progression groups the hardest.

Duplomancer · February 2021

The 5 hardcore raiders coming to ESO will do what they do in every other game. Find the most efficient way to grind Exp and get to it. No need to worry about them.

Phaedryn · February 2021

Any "progression" groups that feel a need to disband because of the new CP system should probably do so anyway as they are clearly not ready for the deep end of the pool yet.

Progression trials is THE end game PvE content. It is what you work towards over the duration of your ESO career, it's not something a new player spends 4-5 /played days to get into.

The overdramatic, the world is ending, statements on the new system *are* fairly amusing but I am starting to run out of popcorn...

codierussell · February 2021

katorga wrote: »

Leading up to the "no players test" to see if that fixes performance, lol.

Seriously, the meta builds for pve are locked behind Trials content. For players who have already done this or already have enough CP to continue to do trials. No issue. But new players will be heavily gated by this.

My main concern is that new players will see the huge hill they have to climb, and just drop the game. Without a steady slow of new players, you start the spiral to server shutdown.

What do you think all of us had to do to get the gear in trials? Oh yes, we ran it with different gear until we got it. You can easily have a group of mag players to clear ncr or nss with all the dps wearing julianos and mechanical acuity, both of which are craftable sets. What would you rather have a pay to win system?

renne · February 2021

Jayroo wrote: »

no shaming here, quite simply all I'm saying is there are better options. But If people find enjoyment out of only playing the game for end game raiding, that's totally fine!

The irony of saying that you're not shaming anyone but then claiming everything else is a better option. Just because you don't personally enjoy a thing doesn't make all the things you like better options, it just makes them options.

TwinLamps · February 2021

Jayroo wrote: »

antiquities,
map dailies/undaunted,
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
skyshards/main/side quests
achievements,
surveys/writs/vouchers
arenas
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
housing
outfitting
events
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
experiment with a new character
non competitive weekly trials

There is plenty of things that makes elder scrolls online fun to play, [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

You forgot addon setting over and over and over and over again once these reset

Kurat · February 2021

spacefracking wrote: »

I'll need to test out the new changes. All I know is that I was extremely not pleased at what I saw the week before this one.

The point here is that the idea that people can do X content or achievement this patch, that the notion that they will no longer be able to do such a piece of content next patch is an insane business decision, and basically the opposite of an "upgrade". As to having people "work harder" to do some late game content, this, again, is a poor decision.

I haven't been able to test trials on pts but tried the solo arenas and was not much difference from live. I got flawless in vMA with 0 cp assigned and cleared vVH with 2 deaths. When I assigned 810cp I got the spirit slayer 1st try. Didn't use any special build, just false god and ms on magden. Everything was hitting slightly harder because mitigation nerfs and my own dps was abit less but if you know the content and are able to do it currently on live then you will have no problems next patch either.

Mahabahabtha · February 2021

Your actual Daily List ?

Jayroo wrote: »

antiquities,
map dailies/undaunted,
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
skyshards/main/side quests
achievements,
surveys/writs/vouchers
arenas
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
housing
outfitting
events
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
experiment with a new character
non competitive weekly trials

There is plenty of things that makes elder scrolls online fun to play, [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Your Future Daily List:

map dailies/undaunted,
-change Stars
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
-change Stars
skyshards/main/side quests
-change Stars
achievements,
-change Stars
surveys/writs/vouchers
-change Stars
arenas
-change Stars
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
-change Stars
housing
outfitting
-change Stars
events
-change Stars
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
-change Stars
experiment with a new character
-change Stars
non competitive weekly trials

Marto · February 2021

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

Your actual Daily List ?
Your Future Daily List:

map dailies/undaunted,
-change Stars
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
-change Stars
skyshards/main/side quests
-change Stars
achievements,
-change Stars
surveys/writs/vouchers
-change Stars
arenas
-change Stars
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
-change Stars
housing
outfitting
-change Stars
events
-change Stars
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
-change Stars
experiment with a new character
-change Stars
non competitive weekly trials

Or you could, yknow... Not max out every node in the CP system.

CP is a long term thing. It's fine to have some stuff only filled halfway.

fxeconomisteb17_ESO · February 2021

I don't see the best sets as coming from raids. Least those that fit my taste. To me the endgame is actually PVP. And I don't PVP, because I never felt myself being there. But I will go there when I'll be ready-ish. And that means, to my calculation, about 735 points. Which should be reachable for me in a few sessions of grinding dolmens. Anyway it looks like this: 4 slottable stars means about 200. Or say 250. Add more 50 points to be spent in between. That means about 750 total, to get the most important stars for a build.

remosito · February 2021

Marto wrote: »

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

Your actual Daily List ?
Your Future Daily List:

map dailies/undaunted,
-change Stars
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
-change Stars
skyshards/main/side quests
-change Stars
achievements,
-change Stars
surveys/writs/vouchers
-change Stars
arenas
-change Stars
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
-change Stars
housing
outfitting
-change Stars
events
-change Stars
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
-change Stars
experiment with a new character
-change Stars
non competitive weekly trials

Or you could, yknow... Not max out every node in the CP system.

CP is a long term thing. It's fine to have some stuff only filled halfway.

whether fully or partially filled makes no difference to active cp points that need to be slotted.

Duplomancer · February 2021

Marto wrote: »

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

Your actual Daily List ?
Your Future Daily List:

map dailies/undaunted,
-change Stars
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
-change Stars
skyshards/main/side quests
-change Stars
achievements,
-change Stars
surveys/writs/vouchers
-change Stars
arenas
-change Stars
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
-change Stars
housing
outfitting
-change Stars
events
-change Stars
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
-change Stars
experiment with a new character
-change Stars
non competitive weekly trials

Or you could, yknow... Not max out every node in the CP system.

CP is a long term thing. It's fine to have some stuff only filled halfway.

Pretty sure that is why it is called a Future Daily List...

I am glad I am on PC, cause there will probably be an AddOn created to manage this kind of thing.

Firstmep · February 2021

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

Your actual Daily List ?

Jayroo wrote: »

antiquities,
map dailies/undaunted,
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
skyshards/main/side quests
achievements,
surveys/writs/vouchers
arenas
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
housing
outfitting
events
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
experiment with a new character
non competitive weekly trials

There is plenty of things that makes elder scrolls online fun to play, [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Your Future Daily List:

map dailies/undaunted,
-change Stars
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
-change Stars
skyshards/main/side quests
-change Stars
achievements,
-change Stars
surveys/writs/vouchers
-change Stars
arenas
-change Stars
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
-change Stars
housing
outfitting
-change Stars
events
-change Stars
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
-change Stars
experiment with a new character
-change Stars
non competitive weekly trials

Half of the things you listed you don't need to change stars for.
Change stars for housing? Looks to me like wanted to make this list as big as possible and put in a bunch of bloat.
Come on dude..

ApoAlaia · February 2021

Firstmep wrote: »

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

Your actual Daily List ?

Jayroo wrote: »

antiquities,
map dailies/undaunted,
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
skyshards/main/side quests
achievements,
surveys/writs/vouchers
arenas
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
housing
outfitting
events
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
experiment with a new character
non competitive weekly trials

There is plenty of things that makes elder scrolls online fun to play, [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Your Future Daily List:

map dailies/undaunted,
-change Stars
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
-change Stars
skyshards/main/side quests
-change Stars
achievements,
-change Stars
surveys/writs/vouchers
-change Stars
arenas
-change Stars
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
-change Stars
housing
outfitting
-change Stars
events
-change Stars
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
-change Stars
experiment with a new character
-change Stars
non competitive weekly trials

Half of the things you listed you don't need to change stars for.
Change stars for housing? Looks to me like wanted to make this list as big as possible and put in a bunch of bloat.
Come on dude..

Might have been a hyperbole however I think in this case it is warranted?

The new system - at least on paper - seems to involve a fair amount of busywork, 'QoL detriment' if you will, and where you might in principle dismiss the repercussions once you had a chance to do this for three months on 18 different characters you might look at it differently.

Hence the hyperbole; trying to condense the potential irritation over time on a single proposition.

renne · February 2021

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

Your actual Daily List ?

Jayroo wrote: »

antiquities,
map dailies/undaunted,
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
skyshards/main/side quests
achievements,
surveys/writs/vouchers
arenas
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
housing
outfitting
events
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
experiment with a new character
non competitive weekly trials

There is plenty of things that makes elder scrolls online fun to play, [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Your Future Daily List:

map dailies/undaunted,
-change Stars
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
-change Stars
skyshards/main/side quests
-change Stars
achievements,
-change Stars
surveys/writs/vouchers
-change Stars
arenas
-change Stars
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
-change Stars
housing
outfitting
-change Stars
events
-change Stars
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
-change Stars
experiment with a new character
-change Stars
non competitive weekly trials

Half of the things you listed you don't need to change stars for.
Change stars for housing? Looks to me like wanted to make this list as big as possible and put in a bunch of bloat.
Come on dude..

Might have been a hyperbole however I think in this case it is warranted?

The new system - at least on paper - seems to involve a fair amount of busywork, 'QoL detriment' if you will, and where you might in principle dismiss the repercussions once you had a chance to do this for three months on 18 different characters you might look at it differently.

Hence the hyperbole; trying to condense the potential irritation over time on a single proposition.

Also PC players, if they use them, will "just get an addon for that" which will change everything with the push of a button, but console players have no such luck so this is legitimately a QoL detriment, especially with the crafting tree and things that were passives in CP 1.0 now having to be slotted if you want the same results in CP 2.0.

ApoAlaia · February 2021

renne wrote: »

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Mahabahabtha wrote: »

Your actual Daily List ?

Jayroo wrote: »

antiquities,
map dailies/undaunted,
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
skyshards/main/side quests
achievements,
surveys/writs/vouchers
arenas
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
housing
outfitting
events
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
experiment with a new character
non competitive weekly trials

There is plenty of things that makes elder scrolls online fun to play, [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Your Future Daily List:

map dailies/undaunted,
-change Stars
leveling/messing with different skill lines,
-change Stars
skyshards/main/side quests
-change Stars
achievements,
-change Stars
surveys/writs/vouchers
-change Stars
arenas
-change Stars
PVP (until at least rank 1 reward for transmutes)
-change Stars
housing
outfitting
-change Stars
events
-change Stars
roaming/adventuring/equip collecting
mat farming for gold, or fishing (pyan bottles/perfect roe)
-change Stars
experiment with a new character
-change Stars
non competitive weekly trials

Half of the things you listed you don't need to change stars for.
Change stars for housing? Looks to me like wanted to make this list as big as possible and put in a bunch of bloat.
Come on dude..

Might have been a hyperbole however I think in this case it is warranted?

The new system - at least on paper - seems to involve a fair amount of busywork, 'QoL detriment' if you will, and where you might in principle dismiss the repercussions once you had a chance to do this for three months on 18 different characters you might look at it differently.

Hence the hyperbole; trying to condense the potential irritation over time on a single proposition.

Also PC players, if they use them, will "just get an addon for that" which will change everything with the push of a button, but console players have no such luck so this is legitimately a QoL detriment, especially with the crafting tree and things that were passives in CP 1.0 now having to be slotted if you want the same results in CP 2.0.

I mean I do hope that someone does code such addon given that there isn't currently a gold cost attached to swapping stars and providing that the system allows addons to interface with that particular part of the UI however as you rightly point out this is hardly any relief for console players.

In terms of 'busywork levels' this is definitely a step on the wrong direction.

Aardappelboom · February 2021

I'm just wondering since I haven't played PTS: does having lower DPS really mean that content is getting "gated"? Things might get a bit more challenging but I'm pretty sure the (relative low) dive in DPS won't result in content not being doable.

As for leaderboard scoresl: since changes are the same for everyone, that shouldn't be an issue. If you really lost 20%, looking at the new system, you probably won't gain it back with just more CP anyway.

katorga · February 2021

codierussell wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Leading up to the "no players test" to see if that fixes performance, lol.

Seriously, the meta builds for pve are locked behind Trials content. For players who have already done this or already have enough CP to continue to do trials. No issue. But new players will be heavily gated by this.

My main concern is that new players will see the huge hill they have to climb, and just drop the game. Without a steady slow of new players, you start the spiral to server shutdown.

What do you think all of us had to do to get the gear in trials? Oh yes, we ran it with different gear until we got it. You can easily have a group of mag players to clear ncr or nss with all the dps wearing julianos and mechanical acuity, both of which are craftable sets. What would you rather have a pay to win system?

I'm not talking about giving them gear, the reason players want to progress to trials as fast as possible is that the meta endgame gear is locked behind trials. That is the only reason I referenced it. My main concern is new players being discouraged and leaving.

CP1.0, 3600 didn't matter. It was capped way below max. Diminishing returns meant you really maxed out at 1800, not 3600.

CP2.0, it matters. Elitist players will make it "seem" like it matters more than it really does.

coop500 · February 2021

Dracane wrote: »

Only talking for myself; but I am sick and tired of the game being balanced around the fracture of a percentage that is progression groups.

I agree..
Or the 5% of OP endgame players in general. Just because THEY can steamroll vet dungeons, doesn't mean the rest of us can.
Besides, people who CAN steamroll, will still steamroll, they might need to adjust their build a little but I promise you they'll be RIGHT back to steamrolling within a week.

alterfenixeb17_ESO · February 2021

woufff wrote: »

Is it me or is it possible that the OP is slightly exaggerating?

No, you are wrong. OP is exaggerating but NOT slightly:-)

satanio wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

spacefracking wrote: »

Additionally, players can be vet raid-ready by CP 450. This new system will force new players to play 3 times longer to get to the point where they can do end game content. This is an absolutely outrageous change.

How can I actually convince someone to play ESO if it takes something on the order of 100 played days to run all of the content? .

There is million other things you can do other than running vet trials. Why you have to be "vet trial ready" asap ?
New player with 2-3 hours of play per day will be busy for months doing alliance quest line , main quest line , collecting skyshards , doing dungeons , no cp bgs , no cp Cyrodiil , no cp IC , all dlc/chapter quest lines , etc.

Some people WANT to be vet trial ready as soon as possible, and the rest of what you posted has little draw for them

And some people WANT a pink flying pony mount but you can't always get what you want.
If you WANT to be ready as soon as possible so much than you have to WORK for it.
Also how many people like this are out there ? 5 ? 10 ? Its hardly a big problem as OP want us to think.

If you can’t get what you want you can still get it elsewhere.

People that already have everything achieved they wanted to achieve can also go elsewhere.

katorga wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Leading up to the "no players test" to see if that fixes performance, lol.

Seriously, the meta builds for pve are locked behind Trials content. For players who have already done this or already have enough CP to continue to do trials. No issue. But new players will be heavily gated by this.

My main concern is that new players will see the huge hill they have to climb, and just drop the game. Without a steady slow of new players, you start the spiral to server shutdown.

What do you think all of us had to do to get the gear in trials? Oh yes, we ran it with different gear until we got it. You can easily have a group of mag players to clear ncr or nss with all the dps wearing julianos and mechanical acuity, both of which are craftable sets. What would you rather have a pay to win system?

I'm not talking about giving them gear, the reason players want to progress to trials as fast as possible is that the meta endgame gear is locked behind trials. That is the only reason I referenced it. My main concern is new players being discouraged and leaving.

CP1.0, 3600 didn't matter. It was capped way below max. Diminishing returns meant you really maxed out at 1800, not 3600.

CP2.0, it matters. Elitist players will make it "seem" like it matters more than it really does.

Yes but keep in mind a few things:

There is some nerf to exp needed for cps. Not much but always a boost by like 20% or so. Also compared to all vet players that are here since veteran ranks removal getting to like 1500 is probably not going to be as lengthy as it took us (exp requirements wise) to get to for instance 1000 cp.
Trial groups will not be composed of only new players, Same goes for dlc vet dungeons. Which means basically that some of this currently existing content may become more accessible to new players than it is now for real. How it will work in future content is just a speculation ofc but current content will still be good for players of average 1000+ cp only

Tbh I do not see so far any major problems with new cps with exception of two:

PvP - it is a good question how maxed out player will now compete against someone that has for instance 500 cp or less. If difference is too big then this may turn into problem for cp campaigns
jealousy - this may affect heavily all those jealous people looking at maxed out characters with thoughts in mind: " I do not need it, it will hardly help me with anything since I have already cleared all content. But I still MUST have it, I must have it NOW and for FREE".

Pallio · February 2021

I think the point of this is to run off the end game raiders. The need to constantly add content to challenge end game is expensive and resource draining, for little return in $$. When the $$ comes from RP and house decorating. ZOS wants end game guilds to leave for something else.. that has been obvious for a while now.

MyKillv2.0 · February 2021

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Massacre_Wurm wrote: »

spacefracking wrote: »

Additionally, players can be vet raid-ready by CP 450. This new system will force new players to play 3 times longer to get to the point where they can do end game content. This is an absolutely outrageous change.

How can I actually convince someone to play ESO if it takes something on the order of 100 played days to run all of the content? .

There is million other things you can do other than running vet trials. Why you have to be "vet trial ready" asap ?
New player with 2-3 hours of play per day will be busy for months doing alliance quest line , main quest line , collecting skyshards , doing dungeons , no cp bgs , no cp Cyrodiil , no cp IC , all dlc/chapter quest lines , etc.

Some people WANT to be vet trial ready as soon as possible, and the rest of what you posted has little draw for them

And some people WANT a pink flying pony mount but you can't always get what you want.
If you WANT to be ready as soon as possible so much than you have to WORK for it.
Also how many people like this are out there ? 5 ? 10 ? Its hardly a big problem as OP want us to think.

I didn't realize I wanted this until I read this....

@ZOS_GinaBruno if we.... (looks around the room), nevermind. If I promise to be on my best behavior, can you ask someone to make this for us?

Thavie · February 2021

I can't speak for everyone, I'm a just mid-core player that hits 35-45k (depends on a build) on live. But any vet content does not require 100k, 25k+ is enough, I don't even know where this coming from. Anything beyond that just makes the run easier. My DPS numbers didn't drop significantly, I had just 2-4k less on PTS without even trying. And I have only 830 CP. People report a huge drop, and those who had 100-80 now have 50-70. And it must hurt but it's definitely not something that blocks you from doing vet content. Especially if you are a part of a progressive group already. This is just silly.

JJMaxx1980 · February 2021

spacefracking wrote: »

...all progression groups will be forced to disband, or start again from the beginning.

spacefracking wrote: »

This will lead many casual players to leave.

All the casual players who are in a daily/weekly veteran trial progression group?

You and I have a very different understanding of a casual player.

Apparently people only wanted a higher end cap for others and not themselves. Reading all the comments it seems that players want both an increase to progression, but also want to start at the end of that progression.

I’m in multiple high-end trial guilds. When the new changes take effect everyone is going to put their CP in the maximum effective spots and our trials will roll right along.

Pallio · February 2021

Jameson18 wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Right, the same old play more better than before the nerf argument.