The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
Cyrodiil Test : Make one change at a time.
FuryOfTyphon
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I love the way removing all proc based sets has changed the meta.
But that wasn't the point of the changes...
The point of these tests was to remove unnecessary calculations server side, to increase performance, this would have been achieved by removing all proc based sets.
However any potential benefits towards performance, are pretty much negated when you added cross healing back into the game.
Cross healing is just adding any more calculations server side, during a time you are actively seeking to reduce the stress on the server.
Any possible gains or losses for performance cannot be truly tested when you are trying to do multiple things at once.
Please remove cross healing for the next week or even two week of testing to see if there is a notable difference, both with or without all of these extra calculations.
Ya'll are messing with too many variables at once, during these tests to truly isolate what can and does help the servers.
TLDR: ZOS Stop trying to address to many issues at once, and remove cross healing again.
But that wasn't the point of the changes...
The point of these tests was to remove unnecessary calculations server side, to increase performance, this would have been achieved by removing all proc based sets.
However any potential benefits towards performance, are pretty much negated when you added cross healing back into the game.
Cross healing is just adding any more calculations server side, during a time you are actively seeking to reduce the stress on the server.
Any possible gains or losses for performance cannot be truly tested when you are trying to do multiple things at once.
Please remove cross healing for the next week or even two week of testing to see if there is a notable difference, both with or without all of these extra calculations.
Ya'll are messing with too many variables at once, during these tests to truly isolate what can and does help the servers.
TLDR: ZOS Stop trying to address to many issues at once, and remove cross healing again.
Too many too list.
1
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Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FuryOfTyphon wrote: »I love the way removing all proc based sets has changed the meta.
But that wasn't the point of the changes...
The point of these tests was to remove unnecessary calculations server side, to increase performance, this would have been achieved by removing all proc based sets.
However any potential benefits towards performance, are pretty much negated when you added cross healing back into the game.
Cross healing is just adding any more calculations server side, during a time you are actively seeking to reduce the stress on the server.
Any possible gains or losses for performance cannot be truly tested when you are trying to do multiple things at once.
Please remove cross healing for the next week or even two week of testing to see if there is a notable difference, both with or without all of these extra calculations.
Ya'll are messing with too many variables at once, during these tests to truly isolate what can and does help the servers.
TLDR: ZOS Stop trying to address to many issues at once, and remove cross healing again.
When you test you need constant variables, if you are changing 2 things at once then you will never have accurate data which is why it makes sense to revert the healing change not to mention it was unfair to healers.
Removing cross healing again would be addressing too many issues at once so the only logical thing is to revert it.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The control wouldnt be cyrodill without cross healing; the control would be Cyrodill untouched.
Its No Cross Healing Cyrodill vs Normal Cyrodill
And No Proc Cyrodill vs Normal Cyrodill
With what OP suggested it would be
Cross Healing Vs Normal
And No Proc No Cross vs Cross/Normal
Not as easy to determine whats what in the second3 -
FuryOfTyphon✭✭✭When you test you need constant variables, if you are changing 2 things at once then you will never have accurate data which is why it makes sense to revert the healing change not to mention it was unfair to healers.
Removing cross healing again would be addressing too many issues at once so the only logical thing is to revert it.
That's exactly my point there are too many variables.
The game we had during MYM, right before the test performed better than it is currently, from my experience.
Test arrives, they remove all conditional proc based sets, which is variable 1.
They also reintroduced cross healing, which is variable 2.
They need to do them one at a time or in stages.
Week one should have been remove all proc based sets and no cross healing.
Gather data.
Week two should be remove all proc based sets but reintroduce cross healing.
Gather data.
Week 3 should be reintroduce both cross healing and proc sets.
Gather data.
Week 4 remove both of them again, to compare week 3 and week 4 data, so players can have a direct comparison between all or nothing.
Not throw them altogether and hope for the best.
Too many too list.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There are an enormous amount of variables.
Consider that ZOS ran the first round of tests in September and October 2020, so any pre-testing data "control" is probably from the Greymoor Patch or even earlier, testing data is from Stonethorn, while the group-only heals/group size changes are from Markarth. At least the current test is also from Markarth! That's a lot of base game game updates, changes, and alterations over a bunch of tests. Frankly, that's a lot of variables.
Based on comments from ZOS, we can guess that group-only heals tests during Stonethorn and Markarth showed no appreciable improvement from their control data (from Greymoor or earlier?) which presumably had cross heals enabled. So from their perspective, cross-heals may look more like a constant compared to the control instead of a variable.
Which is to say that if I were grading ZOS on their ability to design a science experiment, we'd have a discussion about controls and testing only one variable at a time.
But alas, I'm not their middle school science teacher, so they probably won't listen to me. After all, they would have been happy with my suggestion: gather your control data, then don't change anything else except for your one single independent variable.
What?! Put the quarterly base game updates off until they've tested all their independent variables?! Never gonna happen!1 -
FuryOfTyphon✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »There are an enormous amount of variables.
Consider that ZOS ran the first round of tests in September and October 2020, so any pre-testing data "control" is probably from the Greymoor Patch or even earlier, testing data is from Stonethorn, while the group-only heals/group size changes are from Markarth. At least the current test is also from Markarth! That's a lot of base game game updates, changes, and alterations over a bunch of tests. Frankly, that's a lot of variables.
Based on comments from ZOS, we can guess that group-only heals tests during Stonethorn and Markarth showed no appreciable improvement from their control data (from Greymoor or earlier?) which presumably had cross heals enabled. So from their perspective, cross-heals may look more like a constant compared to the control instead of a variable.
Which is to say that if I were grading ZOS on their ability to design a science experiment, we'd have a discussion about controls and testing only one variable at a time.
But alas, I'm not their middle school science teacher, so they probably won't listen to me. After all, they would have been happy with my suggestion: gather your control data, then don't change anything else except for your one single independent variable.
What?! Put the quarterly base game updates off until they've tested all their independent variables?! Never gonna happen!
Yeah there are alot of variables if you are considering data from last the last tests and from all the patches.
But they shouldnt be using that during this test, (they should when looking at performance as a whole)
But for this individual test, they should be looking at how the game performs on live at its current time in the current patch, and then what happens when they implement each individual change/variable. Ie removing proc sets, having crossheals enabled.
One at a time is the main thing I'm trying to get at, implementing to many things at once just skews the data.
With them you sort of have to read between the lines "cross healing showed no appreciable improvement" to me says that they did notice a difference in performance, they just didnt think it was enough of an improvement.
Which I also take with a grain of salt, because they also said there would be a noticable improvement after reinstalling the game for update 25.
Which turned out to be the worst update performance wise they have ever released IMO.Too many too list.0