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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
The lack of counterplay to proc sets is frustrating
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techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »soniku4ikblis wrote: »Agreed. I cannot live through the gold weakness to elements staff and whatever god-awful proc that is. Some kind of multi-colored light beam. It eats me alive.
Games a joke. Sets and everything is all clowned out. Very disappointing.
EDIT: I went and found it. This thing is cancer.
Perfected Wrath of Elements
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Arena
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1190 Spell Penetration, Casting Weakness to Elements on a target within 15 meters of you causes a surge of elemental energy to tether between you for 10 seconds. While the tether persists and you remain in range, enemies touching the tether take 2371 Flame Damage, 2371 Shock Damage, or 2371 Frost Damage every 1 second, which increases by 1% each time it deals damage, up to 20%. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
You need to adjust your mitigation and passive healing. It's the Vateshran staff. Not hard to get and as things go in ESO, this aint even close to the top of the list in terms of being OP. Its a 10 second DOT. Dont get me wrong, its good pressure, but it's not hard to counter. All you need to do is break LOS or go mist on a vamp. The real "cancer" out there is multiple procs that hit you all at once in some 50k health heavy armor tank build. You can see this thing coming a mile away.
One proc alone isn't the issue, though this one does suck. I can't imagine downplaying how much it sucks. I have to assume that you use the staff. Sets like this should be effective in PVE only. Running away from it is not counterplay.
I have used the staff, but I prefer builds without it. I generally prefer max stats from my armor rather than procs or gimmics. Like I said, it's good pressure, but its not out of line with other options. If using a mythic item, you are essentially sacrificing a 5 piece to run it. It also requires you to slot and use a skill, unlike some procs that are almost completely passive. If it was any weaker, it would be pretty useless TBH. Its flashy and new, but hard to call it OP in the current meta.
Also, effectively using LOS is not running away.
If you have to find something to LOS behind, you have to run away in order to get to it. It happened to me again yesterday. A combination of Zaan and Vate was just destroying me so I tried to run out of the range of the tether but the MF just chased me so I couldn't break it before I died.
If Vate+Zaan is destroying you, get tankier and practice your positioning and combat awareness. I cannot even remember the last time I saw either on my death recap. I am not saying they arent powerful, but as this thread is about counter play to proc sets, I assure you, there are things you can do with these two. Both take time to run their course and both are clear as day when they proc. If you stand there and eat them, they will certainly melt you.
I was on my DK in light armor wearing one lord warden and one pirate skeleton. And it is still so bad that I almost always have to flee. In fact, yesterday I was trying to line of sign around a tree but the tethers didn't break. It's not balanced. End of story.
Your in light armour, without strong shields and no way to escape. Thats not really going to work this patch.
I have to agree with this. To much free damage outside of globals to even think about it.1 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭I die a lot. Sometimes 12 times. Sometimes 9. On rare occasions more than 15. But I wear light armor because I want to do damage without Malacath. My DK hybrid needs the Torc to sustain. And it's a Redgaurd (not a tanky meta Nord) on top of that. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be counterplay to procs in the game. Let me bash them. Let me interrupt them. How about not letting them stack and hit all at once?2 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »I die a lot. Sometimes 12 times. Sometimes 9. On rare occasions more than 15. But I wear light armor because I want to do damage without Malacath. My DK hybrid needs the Torc to sustain. And it's a Redgaurd (not a tanky meta Nord) on top of that. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be counterplay to procs in the game. Let me bash them. Let me interrupt them. How about not letting them stack and hit all at once?
While it's true that they are terrible in what they provide for so little; you are not really running something at the top of the even off meta stat builds. This is like wanting bow to be as tanky as 1h and shield in a melee.1 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭techyeshic wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »I die a lot. Sometimes 12 times. Sometimes 9. On rare occasions more than 15. But I wear light armor because I want to do damage without Malacath. My DK hybrid needs the Torc to sustain. And it's a Redgaurd (not a tanky meta Nord) on top of that. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be counterplay to procs in the game. Let me bash them. Let me interrupt them. How about not letting them stack and hit all at once?
While it's true that they are terrible in what they provide for so little; you are not really running something at the top of the even off meta stat builds. This is like wanting bow to be as tanky as 1h and shield in a melee.
Don't blame the player for wearing light armor with a character that uses magicka. Blame the lack of balance that makes only one type of armor viable (unless you play with a Nord).4 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »soniku4ikblis wrote: »Agreed. I cannot live through the gold weakness to elements staff and whatever god-awful proc that is. Some kind of multi-colored light beam. It eats me alive.
Games a joke. Sets and everything is all clowned out. Very disappointing.
EDIT: I went and found it. This thing is cancer.
Perfected Wrath of Elements
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Arena
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1190 Spell Penetration, Casting Weakness to Elements on a target within 15 meters of you causes a surge of elemental energy to tether between you for 10 seconds. While the tether persists and you remain in range, enemies touching the tether take 2371 Flame Damage, 2371 Shock Damage, or 2371 Frost Damage every 1 second, which increases by 1% each time it deals damage, up to 20%. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds.
You need to adjust your mitigation and passive healing. It's the Vateshran staff. Not hard to get and as things go in ESO, this aint even close to the top of the list in terms of being OP. Its a 10 second DOT. Dont get me wrong, its good pressure, but it's not hard to counter. All you need to do is break LOS or go mist on a vamp. The real "cancer" out there is multiple procs that hit you all at once in some 50k health heavy armor tank build. You can see this thing coming a mile away.
One proc alone isn't the issue, though this one does suck. I can't imagine downplaying how much it sucks. I have to assume that you use the staff. Sets like this should be effective in PVE only. Running away from it is not counterplay.
I have used the staff, but I prefer builds without it. I generally prefer max stats from my armor rather than procs or gimmics. Like I said, it's good pressure, but its not out of line with other options. If using a mythic item, you are essentially sacrificing a 5 piece to run it. It also requires you to slot and use a skill, unlike some procs that are almost completely passive. If it was any weaker, it would be pretty useless TBH. Its flashy and new, but hard to call it OP in the current meta.
Also, effectively using LOS is not running away.
If you have to find something to LOS behind, you have to run away in order to get to it. It happened to me again yesterday. A combination of Zaan and Vate was just destroying me so I tried to run out of the range of the tether but the MF just chased me so I couldn't break it before I died.
If Vate+Zaan is destroying you, get tankier and practice your positioning and combat awareness. I cannot even remember the last time I saw either on my death recap. I am not saying they arent powerful, but as this thread is about counter play to proc sets, I assure you, there are things you can do with these two. Both take time to run their course and both are clear as day when they proc. If you stand there and eat them, they will certainly melt you.
I was on my DK in light armor wearing one lord warden and one pirate skeleton. And it is still so bad that I almost always have to flee. In fact, yesterday I was trying to line of sign around a tree but the tethers didn't break. It's not balanced. End of story.
Your in light armour, without strong shields and no way to escape. Thats not really going to work this patch.
Sadly DK is not known for its shields, and the magDK is forced into light armor for sustain and damage reasons. Our survivability is based on our self healing with Burning Embers, Flame Lash, Coagulating Blood, and other tools.
I honestly hate wearing heavy armor and still don't do so because it's just a pain to have such expensive skills. There's a thread floating around about how they want to no longer crutch on the proc meta on their magDK.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is hardly counterplay to procs. The whole point was to allow low skill/level players to achieve high results with zero effort (they keep doing what they were anyway doing, such as light attacking, and the numbers magically go up).Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr0 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »I die a lot. Sometimes 12 times. Sometimes 9. On rare occasions more than 15. But I wear light armor because I want to do damage without Malacath. My DK hybrid needs the Torc to sustain. And it's a Redgaurd (not a tanky meta Nord) on top of that. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be counterplay to procs in the game. Let me bash them. Let me interrupt them. How about not letting them stack and hit all at once?
While it's true that they are terrible in what they provide for so little; you are not really running something at the top of the even off meta stat builds. This is like wanting bow to be as tanky as 1h and shield in a melee.
Don't blame the player for wearing light armor with a character that uses magicka. Blame the lack of balance that makes only one type of armor viable (unless you play with a Nord).
Undetstood. My mDK has been parked as they have little to deal with proc DOTs and abilities are expensive enough to even dare running purge. Nord doesn't help with that0 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »I die a lot. Sometimes 12 times. Sometimes 9. On rare occasions more than 15. But I wear light armor because I want to do damage without Malacath. My DK hybrid needs the Torc to sustain. And it's a Redgaurd (not a tanky meta Nord) on top of that. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be counterplay to procs in the game. Let me bash them. Let me interrupt them. How about not letting them stack and hit all at once?
While it's true that they are terrible in what they provide for so little; you are not really running something at the top of the even off meta stat builds. This is like wanting bow to be as tanky as 1h and shield in a melee.
Don't blame the player for wearing light armor with a character that uses magicka. Blame the lack of balance that makes only one type of armor viable (unless you play with a Nord).
You can play light armour with a character, that has skills to escape like e.g. sorc or nightblade - but not with a Magdk that has the mobility of a sloth. You could try to escape with mist form - maybe that would help?0 -
soniku4ikblis✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »I die a lot. Sometimes 12 times. Sometimes 9. On rare occasions more than 15. But I wear light armor because I want to do damage without Malacath. My DK hybrid needs the Torc to sustain. And it's a Redgaurd (not a tanky meta Nord) on top of that. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be counterplay to procs in the game. Let me bash them. Let me interrupt them. How about not letting them stack and hit all at once?
While it's true that they are terrible in what they provide for so little; you are not really running something at the top of the even off meta stat builds. This is like wanting bow to be as tanky as 1h and shield in a melee.
Don't blame the player for wearing light armor with a character that uses magicka. Blame the lack of balance that makes only one type of armor viable (unless you play with a Nord).
You can play light armour with a character, that has skills to escape like e.g. sorc or nightblade - but not with a Magdk that has the mobility of a sloth. You could try to escape with mist form - maybe that would help?
Templars and DKs use high health recovery and mist form to escape. It's pretty cancer, but at least its available.__._-*._._._.-*'"{Sonic Euphoric Bliss}"'*-._._._.*-_.__0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »Some of this stuff makes me not even want to play the game. Yeah, you're going to bring in new players but older players like me don't want to put up with this.
https://youtu.be/4uLizeKKpys
exactly this. I am weening myself off ESO as we speak. It's nice to be playing games again that are designed for fun, not always in your pocket and overall simply more enjoyable.2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »not suppose to be able to attack a group of people and survive, its not realistic.
and "no" im not being sarcastic and "no" im not joking. fighting more than 2 people "should" kill you.
if you fight some one "one on one" then is fair, and is what eso is about.
So it should always be a numbers game unless dueling? That is terrible logic. The reality is that 9 times out of 10, three people usually win against one, but if the one is more skillful, there is nothing inherently wrong with game balance if he wins the fight once in a while. ESO is skill based, which is why it has the best combat system of any MMO out there.
But there is nothing "skill" about proc sets. Or leaping, dizzing swing twice, executioner once and watching your enemy fall dead before they can break a stun.
I have PVP'd for close to 20 years in FPS and MMO's. I love your posts, but I whole heartedly disagree that ESO combat is skill based. It has the most cheese I have ever seen full stop.
World of Warcraft has the most balanced gameplay I have seen in an MMO. As far as skill...ya, I dunna man. I think juggling 50 keybinds on my hunter far out weights the handful of skills ESO offers. As far as "action combat", there is no fundamental difference in melee combat between ESO and wow. In WOW most things cleave, meaning damage is being done to non targeted enemies. I would argue that ranged in ESO requires "some" skill, certainly a lot more than melee, but I just do not see combat in ESO being all skill. Its actually pretty boring combat.4 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭StarOfElyon wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »I die a lot. Sometimes 12 times. Sometimes 9. On rare occasions more than 15. But I wear light armor because I want to do damage without Malacath. My DK hybrid needs the Torc to sustain. And it's a Redgaurd (not a tanky meta Nord) on top of that. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be counterplay to procs in the game. Let me bash them. Let me interrupt them. How about not letting them stack and hit all at once?
While it's true that they are terrible in what they provide for so little; you are not really running something at the top of the even off meta stat builds. This is like wanting bow to be as tanky as 1h and shield in a melee.
Don't blame the player for wearing light armor with a character that uses magicka. Blame the lack of balance that makes only one type of armor viable (unless you play with a Nord).
You can play light armour with a character, that has skills to escape like e.g. sorc or nightblade - but not with a Magdk that has the mobility of a sloth. You could try to escape with mist form - maybe that would help?
I've learned not to even fight anyone using that staff, especially if it's paired with Grothdar or Zaans (or any other sort of sustained pressure proc). I do not fight them anymore. If they're on a flag, I let them have it. Because the only counterplay is to run away.3 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »not suppose to be able to attack a group of people and survive, its not realistic.
and "no" im not being sarcastic and "no" im not joking. fighting more than 2 people "should" kill you.
if you fight some one "one on one" then is fair, and is what eso is about.
So it should always be a numbers game unless dueling? That is terrible logic. The reality is that 9 times out of 10, three people usually win against one, but if the one is more skillful, there is nothing inherently wrong with game balance if he wins the fight once in a while. ESO is skill based, which is why it has the best combat system of any MMO out there.
Game mechanics should be in the favor of the outnumbered player. Being in a group is crutch enough in this game already0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭not suppose to be able to attack a group of people and survive, its not realistic.
and "no" im not being sarcastic and "no" im not joking. fighting more than 2 people "should" kill you.
if you fight some one "one on one" then is fair, and is what eso is about.
Game mechanics should be in the favor of the outnumbered player. Being in a group is crutch enough in this game already
0 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »not suppose to be able to attack a group of people and survive, its not realistic.
and "no" im not being sarcastic and "no" im not joking. fighting more than 2 people "should" kill you.
if you fight some one "one on one" then is fair, and is what eso is about.
Game mechanics should be in the favor of the outnumbered player. Being in a group is crutch enough in this game already
Um, no? In war troops are more effective than single individuals, it's pure logic. Ofc a a group of bad players should lose to a very skilled player. The closer to reality the game gets, the more balanced.Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭soniku4ikblis wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »StarOfElyon wrote: »I die a lot. Sometimes 12 times. Sometimes 9. On rare occasions more than 15. But I wear light armor because I want to do damage without Malacath. My DK hybrid needs the Torc to sustain. And it's a Redgaurd (not a tanky meta Nord) on top of that. But that doesn't mean there shouldn't be counterplay to procs in the game. Let me bash them. Let me interrupt them. How about not letting them stack and hit all at once?
While it's true that they are terrible in what they provide for so little; you are not really running something at the top of the even off meta stat builds. This is like wanting bow to be as tanky as 1h and shield in a melee.
Don't blame the player for wearing light armor with a character that uses magicka. Blame the lack of balance that makes only one type of armor viable (unless you play with a Nord).
You can play light armour with a character, that has skills to escape like e.g. sorc or nightblade - but not with a Magdk that has the mobility of a sloth. You could try to escape with mist form - maybe that would help?
Templars and DKs use high health recovery and mist form to escape. It's pretty cancer, but at least its available.
Shame stage 4 completely negates that entire passive from DK that boosts HP regen. It's like vampire was designed for a completely different game as it's better to not delve completely into it lest you tie your hands behind your back.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »not suppose to be able to attack a group of people and survive, its not realistic.
and "no" im not being sarcastic and "no" im not joking. fighting more than 2 people "should" kill you.
if you fight some one "one on one" then is fair, and is what eso is about.
Game mechanics should be in the favor of the outnumbered player. Being in a group is crutch enough in this game already
Um, no? In war troops are more effective than single individuals, it's pure logic. Ofc a a group of bad players should lose to a very skilled player. The closer to reality the game gets, the more balanced.
The closer to reality the game gets the more boring it becomes. 😴. Its why there is so many garbage mmo's out there with 1990's combat system like wow0 -
Stahlor✭✭✭✭✭They could introduce something like an "adrenaline rush" passive in PVP e.g. you receive 150 weapon/spell damage for every outnumbering enemy player in a radius of 28m.0
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Bone_Demon✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »not suppose to be able to attack a group of people and survive, its not realistic.
and "no" im not being sarcastic and "no" im not joking. fighting more than 2 people "should" kill you.
if you fight some one "one on one" then is fair, and is what eso is about.
So it should always be a numbers game unless dueling? That is terrible logic. The reality is that 9 times out of 10, three people usually win against one, but if the one is more skillful, there is nothing inherently wrong with game balance if he wins the fight once in a while. ESO is skill based, which is why it has the best combat system of any MMO out there.
But there is nothing "skill" about proc sets. Or leaping, dizzing swing twice, executioner once and watching your enemy fall dead before they can break a stun.
I have PVP'd for close to 20 years in FPS and MMO's. I love your posts, but I whole heartedly disagree that ESO combat is skill based. It has the most cheese I have ever seen full stop.
World of Warcraft has the most balanced gameplay I have seen in an MMO. As far as skill...ya, I dunna man. I think juggling 50 keybinds on my hunter far out weights the handful of skills ESO offers. As far as "action combat", there is no fundamental difference in melee combat between ESO and wow. In WOW most things cleave, meaning damage is being done to non targeted enemies. I would argue that ranged in ESO requires "some" skill, certainly a lot more than melee, but I just do not see combat in ESO being all skill. Its actually pretty boring combat.
Baking a cake with 5 ingredients is harder than grilling a pig stuffed with 50 ingredients. You are being punished far worse for making a mistake in ESO than in WoW. And i agree with you on one point. "But there is nothing "skill" about proc sets. Or leaping, dizzing swing twice, executioner once and watching your enemy fall dead before they can break a stun. "
But what is skill based are the moments that lead to that leap + dizzy + execute.0 -
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