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VERTICAL PROGRESSION IS STILL TOO HIGH
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ThorianB✭✭✭✭✭
✭munster1404 wrote: »Dear OP and others like him, please stop it. My character just keeps getting nerfed. From Healing to blocking to drinking potions (RIP my 6x Argonian Tanks). Why the incessant complain about grinding for CP? If you enjoy the game, the CP will come naturally when you play it regularly ie do your dailies, the occasional farming, completing chapters/DLC quests. Vertical progression is natural, why shaft it? I earn 3 to 5 CP every 2 weeks on top of my day job. ZoS is doling out XP scrolls like crazy. You should have known right from the beginning. Champion Points were not going away. The Devs want you to get those CPs beyond 810 and more. You had nearly 3 years since ZoS froze the CP cap. Any vet player should have way more than 1K CP by now. I myself is at 1340 CP.
Well in pvp, you earn barely any xp. So earning cp will be slow. That's the issue - it doesn't come naturally if you only play pvp.
You could do PVE to earn XP. If no one interrupts me i can do an entire (cyro) town dailies in about 30 minutes. You could do one town a night and spend the rest of your time PVPing. You could also do the dolmens when you run by them. Most people keep on trucking by those in a hurry to ball group. Speaking of which doesn't the NPC guards pay out XP?0 -
FinrodMacBeorn✭✭✭...
You could do PVE to earn XP. If no one interrupts me i can do an entire (cyro) town dailies in about 30 minutes. You could do one town a night and spend the rest of your time PVPing. You could also do the dolmens when you run by them. Most people keep on trucking by those in a hurry to ball group. Speaking of which doesn't the NPC guards pay out XP?
And how much xp will bring this?
I just had a look at my cp 2 years ago. I'm now at 1440 cp, then I was at 1130 - so roughly 2 years for 300 cp with on the average 3 hours gameplay per day (dungeons, trials, solo arenas, overland quests, some crafting and pvp). At the current xp curve on pts 6.3.2, I need about 80% of xp/cp compared to life. So, in another 2 years or roughly 2k hours played, I'll be sitting at about 1800 cp where horizontal progress really begins for a pve dd (if you include solo vet arenas - of course, I could do it with the proverbial 1200 cp, but it will be faster and smoother with 1700+ cp, so vertical progress).
For pvp - well, that's another story. I'm glad that I have opted for no-cp pvp a long time ago.
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mobicera✭✭✭✭✭
✭Last week I decided I wanted to bring my stamsorc into pvp I hadn't done much with it yet so I needed quite a few skill points and some skills to level.
I figured since the zone guide allows you to just easily follow zone quests which also reward skill points i would speed through Caldwell's gold.
I did the 3 base game alliance zones story quests with a 50% xp scroll active at all times, I gained 1.5 cp levels. (I am over 1500 cp)
So basically I got 1 whole cp doing the entire base game zone quests and people don't see that as a problem?
It's just stated xp comes naturally?
I'm sorry but if I essentially go through the games main story one would expect more than 1 level.
This isn't getting xp at a reasonable rate this is a grind that borders on insanity.10 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alphawolf01A wrote: »munster1404 wrote: »Dear OP and others like him, please stop it. My character just keeps getting nerfed. From Healing to blocking to drinking potions (RIP my 6x Argonian Tanks). Why the incessant complain about grinding for CP? If you enjoy the game, the CP will come naturally when you play it regularly ie do your dailies, the occasional farming, completing chapters/DLC quests. Vertical progression is natural, why shaft it? I earn 3 to 5 CP every 2 weeks on top of my day job. ZoS is doling out XP scrolls like crazy. You should have known right from the beginning. Champion Points were not going away. The Devs want you to get those CPs beyond 810 and more. You had nearly 3 years since ZoS froze the CP cap. Any vet player should have way more than 1K CP by now. I myself is at 1340 CP.
Well in pvp, you earn barely any xp. So earning cp will be slow. That's the issue - it doesn't come naturally if you only play pvp.
So try playing the other 95% of the game and get some XP.
Even better is to play another game
I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.11 -
Platanutre✭✭We also have to remember that cp bonuses were also baked into our base, so people at cp160 should be better off than before. Before, let's say it was 50% at cp and then 80% at cp 300 and 100% cp 810, now it's more like cp160 is 75%, cp1170 is 95% and the rest of the grind isn't for that much of a difference. But still, they promoted horizontal progression and soft cap being around 1800-2000cp means that you realistically won't get much horizontal progression at ALL. What scares me most is that they plan to also create more subconstellations (around 110*3 cp = 330 extra cp per cons, the other one is 160*3 = 480cp extra) which are just pure passives meaning that in the future, the game will continue with the same powercreep crap they try to avoid. I'm fine with nerfs across the board if they don;t want pve'rs doing 150k dps, but don't implement the same type of system that will do the same crap 10 years down the road. My 2 cents are this, bake some of the cp stuff into base even more and make subcons a slottable constellation so if they add 10 subcons more you get more options but can;t just go hippy happy getting everything. The other one, is the same thing but not baking in the stats and just adjusting pve. Pvp will self regulate, and adding subcon restrictions will offset a bit of the problem of tanks doing too much damage with a lot mitigations as well. It's crazy that my medium armor bursty stamblade can also take a ton of damage and just run away scotch free, if i want to burst a ton i shouldn't be able to take a burst back.
Also, just make the cap 3600, why the heck is it 1020 it doesn't make sense, i think either a cap increase to 3600 + xtra xp or just a cap increase will suffice with the leveling considering we're much stronger at base now.0 -
MrZeDark✭✭✭I really don´t get why you are so upset. I am nearly cp1200 and I get nearly all passives I would want and all slotted perks full.
I could spent points up to CP1530 or something like that with only very small improvement. Above that point...back to CP810 feeling.
You don´t need CP2000 or even 2800.
Agreed.
I had similar tests on the PTS where when I get to 1200 I'll be ok, everything else is icing - a very small thinly layered butter cream of icing - that might push me 1-2k higher or give me utility that isn't necessary, but optional.
MMO's always change their level caps and progression systems. This is coming, and they will fine tune what they need too based on empirical evidence within the game's systems - how it impacts progression and its disparity between levels, while managing how gap's get closed.
The new CP system is coming, if people don't like it - odds are their gonna keep playing, modify themselves to the new meta and eventually stop complaining; least until Update 30.
I'm looking forward to all these changes, to experience a touch of challenge again to progression - as well as the challenge baked in now with the mitigation and damage changes. Realistically, all im seeing are people hitting DPS numbers they were hitting in 2019 - Which is irrelevant, as people were still doing PvP, and Challenge runs in trials in 2019.
Welcome to the change, grab your kleenex for despair or joy -- because in just under 4 weeks, it's in your face.1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I really don´t get why you are so upset. I am nearly cp1200 and I get nearly all passives I would want and all slotted perks full.
I could spent points up to CP1530 or something like that with only very small improvement. Above that point...back to CP810 feeling.
You don´t need CP2000 or even 2800.
The new CP system is coming, if people don't like it - odds are their gonna keep playing, modify themselves to the new meta and eventually stop complaining; least until Update 30.
I'm ok with the changes, at least it is new. It will be a huge challenge to find the exp to gain CP at a reasonable pace. And that will be a problem. Regardless of what everyone says, this is vertical progression, and more is better.
I am very concerned that this will kill off new players joining the game. 50 levels plus up to 3600 additional levels is gigantic, and be essentially unobtainable for a new player. Even if you only "need" something less than 3600, how is a new player going to know that?
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FinrodMacBeorn✭✭✭I really don´t get why you are so upset. I am nearly cp1200 and I get nearly all passives I would want and all slotted perks full.
I could spent points up to CP1530 or something like that with only very small improvement. Above that point...back to CP810 feeling.
You don´t need CP2000 or even 2800.
The new CP system is coming, if people don't like it - odds are their gonna keep playing, modify themselves to the new meta and eventually stop complaining; least until Update 30.
I'm ok with the changes, at least it is new. It will be a huge challenge to find the exp to gain CP at a reasonable pace. And that will be a problem. Regardless of what everyone says, this is vertical progression, and more is better.
I am very concerned that this will kill off new players joining the game. 50 levels plus up to 3600 additional levels is gigantic, and be essentially unobtainable for a new player. Even if you only "need" something less than 3600, how is a new player going to know that?
It will also kill off "older" players who are here since beta. Where is the vertical progression if playing through all 3 main alliance stories nets you only 1 cp (without exp roles at the range where most "old" players are now). How shall we get those cp at a reasonable rate?
If things like skyreach grinding are the only effective way (xp/time invested) to see any significant progress, then ESO will look like the proverbial Asian grinder.
I do not believe that this is the intention of the devs. We had a similar situation at the introduction of cp1.0, and then the quarterly increasing caps were introduced at a rate where all active players could keep up without grinding.3 -
stefj68✭✭✭✭✭they should reduce de cp cost of everything by half... we can spend near 3600 total...
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Jayne_Doe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Many of the comments about the vertical progression being too high seems to be from PvPers. Is this largely a PvP issue? If so, what about a cap on CP while in Cyrodiil, that would be part of Battle Spirit? Not sure how that would work, exactly, as I think they'd need to allow for CP loadouts if they were to implement this.
But, this may also be an issue in high-end PvE, where some players would have a tough time getting into some groups if they didn't have, what, 2000 CP? But, I would think it would be less of an issue in PvE, since there is a learning curve to becoming a good player for trials and vet content. Players would naturally gain CP as they try to get better to get into top-tier groups.
Coming from a solo quester perspective, I'm just speculating and offering a potential solution. Which may not be a good one. Happy to hear thoughts from PvPers and PvErs as to whether a cap in certain content would work, while letting solo questers have access to all their CP to customize their characters (thinking largely of all the useful stars in the green tree).
IF something like this would work, they wouldn't be able to implement it in time for this update. But maybe in future they could implement CP loadouts, for PvP and specific PvE content, that would limit the number of stars to 2000 or whatever the acceptable cap would be. Which would allow for customization for that specific content that would keep players on more of an even playing field. Probably a completely wacky idea, but trying to think of something other than just continuing to have a spendable CP cap that slowly gets raised.0 -
rrimöykk✭✭✭✭✭I really don´t get why you are so upset. I am nearly cp1200 and I get nearly all passives I would want and all slotted perks full.
I could spent points up to CP1530 or something like that with only very small improvement. Above that point...back to CP810 feeling.
You don´t need CP2000 or even 2800.
Agreed.
I had similar tests on the PTS where when I get to 1200 I'll be ok, everything else is icing - a very small thinly layered butter cream of icing - that might push me 1-2k higher or give me utility that isn't necessary, but optional.
MMO's always change their level caps and progression systems. This is coming, and they will fine tune what they need too based on empirical evidence within the game's systems - how it impacts progression and its disparity between levels, while managing how gap's get closed.
Name a mmo or even any game where the level cap was increased by almost three (3l thousand levels.
What you tested on pts? Trials? Pvp? 1200 is okay for everything but end game. Some of us prefer that and aim for the highest maximum potential, not struggling through veteran base game dungeons.
We asked and wanted a cp change but not by grinding thousands of levels.
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rrimöykk✭✭✭✭✭We could, however, hire cp farmers as botting doesn't get you banned in this game.
At least nothing happens to those material farmers, turn them into farming cp instead.2 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really don´t get why you are so upset. I am nearly cp1200 and I get nearly all passives I would want and all slotted perks full.
I could spent points up to CP1530 or something like that with only very small improvement. Above that point...back to CP810 feeling.
You don´t need CP2000 or even 2800.
I just went on PTS and added it all up it's 1770 total CP to get every passive excluding off damage type + 4 actives.
I'm on a 810 CP template character and what I'm missing compared to what I'd have at the 1770 max is:
4% less magic and elemental damage taken
4% less martial damage taken (physical, poison, disease, bleed)
10% less damage taken from non-player enemies (I can still solo resources in Cyrodiil)
2% less direct damage done
2% less AOE damage done
350 less offensive penatration
30% less chance to apply magic status effect
199 less Spell and Weapon Damage
320 less Critical hit chance (@1.5% I believe)
4% less healing done
Most of those are fairly small differences for having less than half the functional cap.Edited by itscompton on February 12, 2021 11:59AM2 -
MrZeDark✭✭✭I really don´t get why you are so upset. I am nearly cp1200 and I get nearly all passives I would want and all slotted perks full.
I could spent points up to CP1530 or something like that with only very small improvement. Above that point...back to CP810 feeling.
You don´t need CP2000 or even 2800.
Agreed.
I had similar tests on the PTS where when I get to 1200 I'll be ok, everything else is icing - a very small thinly layered butter cream of icing - that might push me 1-2k higher or give me utility that isn't necessary, but optional.
MMO's always change their level caps and progression systems. This is coming, and they will fine tune what they need too based on empirical evidence within the game's systems - how it impacts progression and its disparity between levels, while managing how gap's get closed.
Name a mmo or even any game where the level cap was increased by almost three (3l thousand levels.
What you tested on pts? Trials? Pvp? 1200 is okay for everything but end game. Some of us prefer that and aim for the highest maximum potential, not struggling through veteran base game dungeons.
We asked and wanted a cp change but not by grinding thousands of levels.
Again.. the level cap may be 3600, but to be effective the shift is only 390 levels up. Given the xp shift, that’s not really very many.0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Alphawolf01A wrote: »munster1404 wrote: »Dear OP and others like him, please stop it. My character just keeps getting nerfed. From Healing to blocking to drinking potions (RIP my 6x Argonian Tanks). Why the incessant complain about grinding for CP? If you enjoy the game, the CP will come naturally when you play it regularly ie do your dailies, the occasional farming, completing chapters/DLC quests. Vertical progression is natural, why shaft it? I earn 3 to 5 CP every 2 weeks on top of my day job. ZoS is doling out XP scrolls like crazy. You should have known right from the beginning. Champion Points were not going away. The Devs want you to get those CPs beyond 810 and more. You had nearly 3 years since ZoS froze the CP cap. Any vet player should have way more than 1K CP by now. I myself is at 1340 CP.
Well in pvp, you earn barely any xp. So earning cp will be slow. That's the issue - it doesn't come naturally if you only play pvp.
So try playing the other 95% of the game and get some XP.
So to keep playing what I enjoy about the game, I now, out of nowhere, have to go do other stuff that I don't enjoy.
To stay competitive in the content I like, I have to go around mindlessly roubding up zombies and dropping a destroy ult for an hour a day? Why?
Most PvP players don't care about progression. They care about fun fights. This change will only make it fun for people with more CP.
Also, PVE isn't safe from this.
Whatever the minimum CP is to have all the passives you need for trials, you 100% know there will be groups that ask for that. It'll be back to like it was with 810, with people being excluded.5 -
Agalloch✭✭✭✭✭Seriously, probs on you for reducing it, but this is just insane ZOS. you guys reduced it from 2800, to 2000, like come on?!
seriously atm the gap between high cp and low cp is big. As @ZOS_GinaBruno mentioned in Murkmire and she wrote something along the lines of:
"Currently the gap between a HIGH cp player and Low cp player is too big, and we want to make it easier for a low cp player to keep up"
And you do this by increasing CP cap, not by 30, not by 50, not even 100 and not even 1000!!!!! but 1790!!!!!!!!! We tested, and to get every passive for combat, and to be completely min-maxed you need 2000 cp. this is Nuts. you can perhaps wipe off 200 cp if u dont care about the guard damage debuff (which honestly is a nice one to have if u have fights in an enemy keep in pvp).
As a pvp-only player this is insane, and completely demotivating. There is nothing in pvp that gives XP enough to level you fast. So you are then forced to farm zombies again and again and again and again and another 1 billion XP, or do daily writs (which the 5 richest players all have bought) until your brain explodes. non of which are a fun experience unless you are into that kind of playstyle
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam Please guys, do not force this upon your players, do not make people who want to be competetive in both a pve, or pvp environment (where even the smallest % increases matters) have to farm literally billions of XP to compete. Did you guys seriously think this through? because i think not.
Please!! you want to reduce vertical progression. Reduce the amount you need, and make each stage / point be worth more.
I honestly thought you guys would make CP cap/ effective CP cap LESS than before, because 810 is ALREADY TOO BIG and then you do the complete opposite.
Not surprised, but i can only pray, beg and hope you see this/your own mistake, and make a quick 180 U-turn and fix the effective CP cap before launch. I doubt it, but in case not, you will hopefully redo the cp rework in the next patch after the next one. After the tsunami of complaints, when the average player at 600 CP finds out he is now WAY WAY WAY less behind in the foodchain compared to before.
Alas, rant over. Stay safe everyone.
Did you checked the PTS?
The new xp CP formula will change ...no one know exactly but 810 CP will convert in about 1500 CP ..and so on..
After 1700 CP there are only slight adjustments ..nothing very important.
ESO has horizontal progression but needs also Vertical progression .
You will see you'll be fine in cp 2.0 ...
The only problem Update 29 brings is around 30% nerf to DPS even PTS need more tests ..this is what we must protest against....
Cheers!
English is not my native language.
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Faded✭✭✭✭✭master_vanargand wrote: »The new CP is very vertical.
It doesn't look horizontal to me.
They seem to have trouble with the concept.
E for effort.
Edited by Faded on February 12, 2021 2:41PM0 -
Flaaklypa✭✭✭✭✭Seriously, probs on you for reducing it, but this is just insane ZOS. you guys reduced it from 2800, to 2000, like come on?!
seriously atm the gap between high cp and low cp is big. As @ZOS_GinaBruno mentioned in Murkmire and she wrote something along the lines of:
"Currently the gap between a HIGH cp player and Low cp player is too big, and we want to make it easier for a low cp player to keep up"
And you do this by increasing CP cap, not by 30, not by 50, not even 100 and not even 1000!!!!! but 1790!!!!!!!!! We tested, and to get every passive for combat, and to be completely min-maxed you need 2000 cp. this is Nuts. you can perhaps wipe off 200 cp if u dont care about the guard damage debuff (which honestly is a nice one to have if u have fights in an enemy keep in pvp).
As a pvp-only player this is insane, and completely demotivating. There is nothing in pvp that gives XP enough to level you fast. So you are then forced to farm zombies again and again and again and again and another 1 billion XP, or do daily writs (which the 5 richest players all have bought) until your brain explodes. non of which are a fun experience unless you are into that kind of playstyle
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam Please guys, do not force this upon your players, do not make people who want to be competetive in both a pve, or pvp environment (where even the smallest % increases matters) have to farm literally billions of XP to compete. Did you guys seriously think this through? because i think not.
Please!! you want to reduce vertical progression. Reduce the amount you need, and make each stage / point be worth more.
I honestly thought you guys would make CP cap/ effective CP cap LESS than before, because 810 is ALREADY TOO BIG and then you do the complete opposite.
Not surprised, but i can only pray, beg and hope you see this/your own mistake, and make a quick 180 U-turn and fix the effective CP cap before launch. I doubt it, but in case not, you will hopefully redo the cp rework in the next patch after the next one. After the tsunami of complaints, when the average player at 600 CP finds out he is now WAY WAY WAY less behind in the foodchain compared to before.
Alas, rant over. Stay safe everyone.
Did you checked the PTS?
The new xp CP formula will change ...no one know exactly but 810 CP will convert in about 1500 CP ..and so on..
After 1700 CP there are only slight adjustments ..nothing very important.
ESO has horizontal progression but needs also Vertical progression .
You will see you'll be fine in cp 2.0 ...
The only problem Update 29 brings is around 30% nerf to DPS even PTS need more tests ..this is what we must protest against....
Cheers!
English is not my native language.
i did check it. who cares about the new xp formula, they confirmed you will have the same CP on CP 2 launch as on CP 1, and the new formula isnt even good, its 1/4 faster up to 900 cp and 1/2 faster until cp1200, then it literally becomes the same on CP 2 as on CP 1 (xp gain) which btw is confirmed by ZOS patch notes, and Game director.
I dont know what your cp is, but let me tell you as someone who is cp 1253, i need over 900k to level a single CP, and i gain about 1 CP every 2 days. After CP 2.0 drops, THIS. WONT. CHANGE. XP rate will stay the same. so there is in fact huge voice of concern here, especially since i need 2k CP to get everything i need, i have been to PTS. I HAVE TESTED.
This is the point of the thread, that hopefully @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam ether one of these see it. and hopefully agrees and realizes having 3-4 years of leveling before you can compete is absolutely not acceptable, or fun. Its rather insane.
They need to put a soft cap on the CP, or literally disable every Passive CP and make EVERYTHING slottable. add in the needed healing and sustain to base stats and make everything in the CP slottable, with the 4 perks a tree cap. the way it is now you need 2k CP for every passive and 4 slottables. which is nuts if you want to compete fair with a pvp player, or even PvE, as people with way higher cp will be favored1
