Wolfluyt wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

you got this?

Mate have you any idea how mind numbing boring it is to grind the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (I'm sure you got a taste from reading this)

Yeah it is cool that there is a mount in game that probably only 1% of players have but that is not what I meant with end game content. What I meant is variety in end game content.

They were clealry being sarcastic......

End game is farming motifs and housing patterns in the Overland. I don't know what you guys are talking about.

pelle412 wrote: »

ESO definitely needs much more variety in the end-game category. This should in no way affect the casual nature of the game as a whole. Here's a comparison between MMOs I've played.

WoW (by ESO's age) had 66 dungeons (majority has two diffulcities) and 27 raids (most at two difficulties)
SWTOR 30 flashpoints (most has 3 difficulties), 11 full-scale raids and 5 instanced boss fights (mini raids)
ESO has 42 dungeons (two difficulties), 9 trials (two difficulties), 2 solo arenas and 2 group arenas

ESO's dungeons (especially DLC ones) and Trials are pretty high quality, but fall short in terms of challenge compared to WoW and SWTOR. ESO's raids are usually cleared within an hour of release at maximum difficulty. In WoW and SWTOR that can take days, sometimes weeks.

WoW's innovation with mythic+ greatly expanded the end-game variety (and did not affect the casual player's game) and also laid the foundation for the e-sports genre in WoW. ESO has no such thing, but if it had eventually it could greatly expand its visibility in the e-sports field.

WoW also has an enormous amount of collectibles you can earn just by playing (some are albeit grindy) but ESO has very little of this. Collectibles enhance the repeatability of the game.

Please leave the comical joke that is pve esports out of the conversation. Mythic+ is terrible and only exacerbates the linear, uniteresting copy pasted assets from existing outdoor zone locations that are partitioned off into instances and passed as a "dungeon" all for the sake of appeasing venture capitalist investments into esports because Bobby kotick swore to them it was going to be huge.

Wow has no business being an esport by any stretch if the imagination and because of it, its pve and pvp content has suffered miserably.

Wow dungeons are an absolute joke and have been for many many years. And this is coming from someone that recently got the m15 mount in SL 2 weeks before canceling their sub.

Comparing wow to eso in terms of content volume and using age as a measuring stick is equally ridiculous. Eso and wow operate on fundamentally different progression systems. Wows old dungeons are used for leveling and for fueling timewalking events, and beyond that anyone jumping into wow today, is faced with a relatively brisk and expedient leveling experience before they hit cap and are funneled through and sat down firmly into whatever the current expansion is in terms of end game progress is concerned. Filling out collectables a mog pages is not end game. Wows content prior to current expansions are mostly redundant and obsolete outside of vanity and achievements.

Alternatively, someone can run vet selenes web tomorrow, a dungeon that is mutliple years old and aquire gear that is entirely applicable to an end game build in eso today. Eso does not render its content obsolete in the same manner wow does because eso does not operate on a vertical progression cadence with intrinsically and meticulously designed weekly time gates to control ilvl power gains. The games are worlds apart in so many ways.

Pretty soon you will have your endgame content when the new CP system and all the nerfs coming along with it scales back your DPS to oblivion.

Kesstryl wrote: »

Pretty soon you will have your endgame content when the new CP system and all the nerfs coming along with it scales back your DPS to oblivion.

All the way to the Gates of Oblivion!

pelle412 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Please leave the comical joke that is pve esports out of the conversation. Mythic+ is terrible and only exacerbates the linear, uniteresting copy pasted assets from existing outdoor zone locations that are partitioned off into instances and passed as a "dungeon" all for the sake of appeasing venture capitalist investments into esports because Bobby kotick swore to them it was going to be huge.

That's fine. You want ESO to remain small, in a box, with no end game. I want it to be well known, talked about, for all areas of gameplay. End game content is very threatening to you, and it's a great mystery since it's optional.

You have taken liberties with your interpretation of my feelings on eso based on that post. Wanting a more robust and involved end game in eso is something that I have championed for multiple years and have offered numerous suggestions and opinions on where I think the game would benefit most from both in pve, and pvp content design philosophy. I indulge in every form of end game for every mmo I play. On these forums alone I have been beaten and bruised for suggesting more difficult end game content with a wider reach for eso.

Activisions position on how to structure world of warcraft has nothing to do with it. Take that strawman elsewhere. Honestly I'm not even sure where you are getting at. Are you using wows popularity and twitch viewership as a means to measure where any mmo should focus its content design to become more popular and more visible to gamers?

Not every game caters to everyone. And it will never, as different people demand different, sometimes opposite, things. ESO obviously has a focus on storytelling, lore and questing, and as they for sure do market research, they'll have their reasons for that.

Wolfluyt wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

you got this?

Mate have you any idea how mind numbing boring it is to grind the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (I'm sure you got a taste from reading this)

Yeah it is cool that there is a mount in game that probably only 1% of players have but that is not what I meant with end game content. What I meant is variety in end game content.

That's precisely why most players recommend taking one's time progressing through the game rather than assuming that the quicker you get to endgame the sooner you will get to the fun part. Only today I commented in another thread about how people only ever complain about the endgame that they see as the be-all-and-end-all of a MMO and what do we have? Another thread complaining about endgame !

Tandor wrote: »

Wolfluyt wrote: »

WiseSky wrote: »

you got this?

Mate have you any idea how mind numbing boring it is to grind the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (I'm sure you got a taste from reading this)

Yeah it is cool that there is a mount in game that probably only 1% of players have but that is not what I meant with end game content. What I meant is variety in end game content.

That's precisely why most players recommend taking one's time progressing through the game rather than assuming that the quicker you get to endgame the sooner you will get to the fun part. Only today I commented in another thread about how people only ever complain about the endgame that they see as the be-all-and-end-all of a MMO and what do we have? Another thread complaining about endgame !

While there is absolutely something to be said for the whole journey vs destination in mmos, and of all the mmos I've played, the discovery period I had with eso ranks high for sure. But the journey most assuredly ends at some point no matter what you do, and in eso seasoned long term players are left with not a whole lot in terms of variety, and is even made further problematic when the juiciest chunks of content that the game gets every year are tuned for the most casual fresh green horned players. Most veteran players struggle to even enjoy the overland experience when large new zones are introduced. Among other things.

The damning reality that most people dont realize is that in this genre, there comes a breaking point where the longest term players, the most dedicated ones absolutely become the player demographic that do not "pay the bills" so to speak. Think about this.... a brand new player coming into eso has a swathe of content for them to indulge in, and if the game is great for them early on, there is a good chance they are going to enjoy siad journey for a long period time or in more nefarious terms, zos is far more able to monetize those players over the course a year+. A seasoned player that has seen everything is much harder to wow over or impress, or to entice in a way that they MIGHT stay for a month or two if they were previously on break from the game.

And the cycle essentially repeats itself. But what is truly obnoxious is those newer players that still throughly enjoy the game tell those that have been around for so long that they need to dig deeper into "all the content" and to "take their time" as some kind of rebuttal.

mocap wrote: »

ESO has many end game content, including enormous amount of content that doesn't evolved combat. Like antiquities, housing, crafting, trading, collections (bazzilions of them), fishing, harvesting.

As for end game combat content, besides of PvP, all of them, obviously, are repetative. You can try solo vet dungeons though, or normal DLC.

Yes nothing repetitive about the stretch between aleswell and chalman.

Wolfluyt wrote: »

Looking at World of Warcraft and the amount of end game content that the game offers. I wondered when will ESO start focusing on adding more end game content. Perhaps a new difficulty for Dungeons and Trails that is harder than Veteran would add some longevity to the game.

I just feel that ESO fall short on end game content with only a couple of Trails and even Vet Dungeons have become easy to clear with a good team.
What are your thoughts?

I have no lack of end game content myself, but i also enjoy a variety of end game activities, so that matters a lot when it comes to getting bored. I do a variety of content in game. The week before last i was mostly farming world bosses and dungeons. Last week i was mostly doing Cyro, The current week i have been doing housing, dailies, and farming prints that i am missing. No telling what i will feel like doing next week. But if you only care about certain areas of the game such a pve end game or pvp end game, then you are probably going to get bored fairly quickly playing every day for a year.

On the PVE front there a few things they could do.
1. 6 man mini raids - these could be used instead of making increasingly harder DLC dungeons just for end game players. They could still turn those DLCs up a notch but they only make them a little harder rather than what they do now. Every quarter you would get a DLC dungeon or two and a mini raid.
2. They could use oblivion portals to go to alternate versions of Tamriel or some such that are vet level content.
3. They could have progression trials. The intro DLC would have a couple of boss for this trial, the chapter drop would have 4-5 bosses, then Q3 DLC would have a couple of more bosses, Q4 would have 3-4 bosses. To unlock each stage requires you to get a certain score. This would be in addition to the standard raid.
4. You could have a boss gauntlet with solo, 4, 12 player modes. All the bash with none of the trash. A random boss from the game buffed or debuffed to your group size is spawned. One you kill it, another random boss is spawned so on and so forth. If you die solo the run is over. If you die in a group, you can't be rezzed your run is over. So the gauntlet is a one shot run. The more stages you complete the better the rewards.
5. They could have bosses that adjust to your groups ability. If you run through FG1 and your group easily takes out the first boss( using combat time),the second boss is buffed to be harder depending on how fast you killed the first boss, same with the third, fourth, etc. That way for a good group the content gets progressively harder depending on how well the group does. This would have to be an entire instance mode itself but it would be more creative than just making another tier of hard. Vet dungeons and trials would be the base level. So getting really efficient at these means the new tier would only be that much harder for you/ your group. Since difficulty is always based on group ability, the content has more layers of challenges.