Seventh Legion change makes absolutely no sense

Fawn4287 · February 2021

Its primarily a PvP set that can only be activated again once the active buff has finished, making it an incredibly annoying set to keep up, especially considering the cost of an armour buff (usually magica cost on a stam build). You generally want to be resistance buffed prior to entering a fight, you now have to recast an expensive buff you already have the moment you enter combat to proc this set. In the middle of the worst proc set meta with the worst lag in the games history and it’s determined that a few sets used by a tiny group of people using add ons to cheese dummy parses on PC take priority when it comes to balance changes?

wheem_ESO · February 2021

I think they're supposedly "pushing score" on PvE fights, rather than just cheesing dummy parses. Still, that doesn't seem like a good argument for nerfing the set in PvP to me, for the reasons you mention.

milllaurie · February 2021

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Its primarily a PvP set that can only be activated again once the active buff has finished, making it an incredibly annoying set to keep up, especially considering the cost of an armour buff (usually magica cost on a stam build). You generally want to be resistance buffed prior to entering a fight, you now have to recast an expensive buff you already have the moment you enter combat to proc this set. In the middle of the worst proc set meta with the worst lag in the games history and it’s determined that a few sets used by a tiny group of people using add ons to cheese dummy parses on PC take priority when it comes to balance changes?

I agree. 15 sec is stupid time already apart from stamsorc or a stamplar (the rune doesn't cos anything). But Stamdens, dks, necros and nbs have to burn through their magicka. First of all THIS WAS NEVER BROKEN OR NEEDED A CHANGE. It is not like 350 wdmg empowers you amazingly. You know what does? Blood frenzy and titanborn. Maybe nerf Powerful assault too huh? 300 wdmg with no downtime. amazingly OP in this tank meta.
Maybe they should check their Vate destro first? 10k/s tooltip on a free skill which is also aoe and is buffed by malacath. Maybe check the effect of crimson twilight first which has no ceiling on the heal. I mean what time do we live in huh?
Maybe nerf hundings rage too? Oh wait, you did with the crit line nerf.

Firstmep · February 2021

Frankly this is one of my main issue with the current dev team, as in, they have a very narrow focus, and don't seem to think about the ramifications of the changes they make, they just blanket nerf/change anything that falls into a category, like in this case pre buff sets.
Many of the current trial pre buff sets simply aren't worth using once you are in actual combat, and this change will push those sets even further away from being useful.
While I agree that pre buff sets shouldn't be a thing, this change should have been accompanied by reworks or buffs to these sets, to make them more desirable to use in an actual fight.
And that brings us to seventh legion, which is the best example of this short sighted-ness.
This set is procced by using an armor buff, which is usually done at the start of the fight, often outside of combat.
With this change, you will have to engage or be engaged in combat, and then apply your armor buff to proc this set, which means you already start the fight out on your back foot.
A better rework would have been to make the proc condition something else, for example when you are in combat and you apply a major buff to yourself, then the set procs.
Suddenly you can get into combat and for example use a potion, or rally or any major offensive or defensive buff, and you could already have your armor buff rolling and not be penalized for having it up.
This is just one idea, but definetly as it stands this set is going to be far weaker come next patch.
It already doesn't line up well with the duration of most armor buffs, so they could've also remedied that, like you have the effect as long as you have an armor buff on, and not a set duration.
So yeah, food for thought...

wheem_ESO · February 2021

Maybe they should just have all buffs outside of Mundus, food, and Vampire levels be stripped anytime you switch gear? It solves the issue of silly "score pushing" in PvE, while not really nerfing the sets for those people who actually plan to use them for their intended purpose. I can't think of any real downsides off the top of my head, other than some extra work on ZOS' end.

Firstmep · February 2021

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Maybe they should just have all buffs outside of Mundus, food, and Vampire levels be stripped anytime you switch gear? It solves the issue of silly "score pushing" in PvE, while not really nerfing the sets for those people who actually plan to use them for their intended purpose. I can't think of any real downsides off the top of my head, other than some extra work on ZOS' end.

Or just remove buffs provided by sets when you unequip said set.
My guess is, it would require some fiddling with games code and hence they took the short way out, as usual.

wheem_ESO · February 2021

Firstmep wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Maybe they should just have all buffs outside of Mundus, food, and Vampire levels be stripped anytime you switch gear? It solves the issue of silly "score pushing" in PvE, while not really nerfing the sets for those people who actually plan to use them for their intended purpose. I can't think of any real downsides off the top of my head, other than some extra work on ZOS' end.

Or just remove buffs provided by sets when you unequip said set.
My guess is, it would require some fiddling with games code and hence they took the short way out, as usual.

I figure just stripping everything outside of a few specific buffs that aren't provided by sets may involve less checks and work for ZOS.

Larcomar · February 2021

+ I really can't see high end trial groups swapping out to seventh legion to prebuff....

Fawn4287 · February 2021

Or just remove buffs provided by sets when you unequip said set.
My guess is, it would require some fiddling with games code and hence they took the short way out, as usual. [/quote]

This

milllaurie · February 2021

Yeah another good point about this is: it is not an exploit if everyone can use it. It is not like pc players are competing with console players who can't change their setup in 1 sec.

techyeshic · February 2021

ZOS right now "we find damage procs have too many conditions causing calculations on the server so now, cast light attack and automatically do 15k damage."

Also ZOS: "To activate a stat proc you must be in combat, cast an armor buff, while driving stick, and eating spaghetti to get 350 weapon damage."

Stahlor · February 2021

Larcomar wrote: »

+ I really can't see high end trial groups swapping out to seventh legion to prebuff....

They can on PC by "one button" gear exchange. However, I see a problem with pc add-ons not with the sets.

Fantalior · February 2021

This set was never op please leave it as it is or give it a small damage buff. There can also be diversity in sets, some always grant buffs, some with activation and some in combat. It has always been like that, if others are too bad you can also give them a bonus that can be activated outside of combat.

All in all about all new changes to the CP system, the basic values and the armor, there is only one thing left to say but makes everything unkillable and takes damage completely out of the game.

[Snip]

[Edited for advertising]

katorga · February 2021

The senseless part is that they don't want you to pre-buff a proc that procs off a skill you pre-buff with.

It is only 350, definitely not "alpha strike" material.

olsborg · February 2021

Tbh this set would be fine if they remove the cd. The cd is the sole reason i dont use it.

Vaoh · February 2021

Disable gear swaps while you have an ability activated. The check goes out when you click to swap a piece of gear. Problem solved.....

Or just ruin the actual usage of a bunch of sets by making them only work in-combat I guess...

Urzigurumash · February 2021

The cooldown and the mag drain already made this set a bothersome - yet strong - choice, but now that it demands we wait until we're taking damage to apply our armor buff, it's trashed for most PvP. Maybe still a decent choice for dueling if you adapt accordingly, but mostly, 7th Legion has finally met its end, probably long-awaited by many Mag players.

The change to Senche's Bite was similarly disastrous for the way the set has been run, but at least it triggers off of something that is supposed to be done during combat rather than before, unlike 7th and armor buffs.

Give us back Minor Resolve on Stone Giant and maybe at least StamDKs would still run this set.

Urzigurumash · February 2021

Firstmep wrote: »

Or just remove buffs provided by sets when you unequip said set.
My guess is, it would require some fiddling with games code and hence they took the short way out, as usual.

Off the rip that might mean it couldn't be backbarred. Probably it would require some new code to prevent "pre-buffing" in PvE but allow backbarring in PvP. If this might impact performance then we are better off without it.

Like others have said here, remove the cooldown, or extend the buff to 20 seconds, or both, and maybe this set is still viable with this new limitation.